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ordbosewr
Posts: 645
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:30 pm

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:21 am

Boof02671 wrote:
According air fleets UA has nine 767s parked and says 43 772s currently


I would use the UA fleet site as more accurate: https://sites.google.com/site/unitedfleetsite/
Besides the PW777 fleet it is a little more complicated, since many are having to go through heavy maintenance before re-entry into service or modification. UA is also in the middle of the Polaris modification program, while that was paused in 2020, it has since re-started and they have mod lines running. So, yes, demand is down, and the PW's are down, but the vast majority of the fleet is on the road back to service in various steps. Heck, even the 767-400's, which many thought would be retired are returning to service with 7 in-service.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2686
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:55 am

ordbosewr wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
According air fleets UA has nine 767s parked and says 43 772s currently


I would use the UA fleet site as more accurate: https://sites.google.com/site/unitedfleetsite/
Besides the PW777 fleet it is a little more complicated, since many are having to go through heavy maintenance before re-entry into service or modification. UA is also in the middle of the Polaris modification program, while that was paused in 2020, it has since re-started and they have mod lines running. So, yes, demand is down, and the PW's are down, but the vast majority of the fleet is on the road back to service in various steps. Heck, even the 767-400's, which many thought would be retired are returning to service with 7 in-service.

Planes in heavy maintenance aren’t counted as a parked fleet.
 
NickLAX
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:48 pm

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:36 am

Outbound: AAL9990 enroute now from JFK to FRA (assume reposition tomorrow to RMS): https://www.flightradar24.com/AAL9990/28e40ba6

Inbound:
DAL 8958 from RMS (repositioned from FRA earlier) to IAD : https://www.flightradar24.com/DAL8958/28e36491
Atlas Air/5Y 8089 from RMS (just landed) to IAD: https://www.flightradar24.com/GTI8089/28e35365
DAL 8963 from HHN (Frankfurt Hahn but originated in XJD (Al Udeid Airbase/Qatar to IAD:: https://www.flightradar24.com/DAL8963/28e38283

NOT US/CRAF but noticed these also:

Ethiopian/ET8724 from DWC to BHX: https://www.flightradar24.com/ETH8724/28e40872
Titan/ZT753 from BHX to DWC: https://www.flightradar24.com/ETH8724/28e40872
Assuming both flying for UK Government
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2686
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:50 am

DOT Allows Foreign Carriers To Operate Afghanistan Evacuations

The United States Department of Transportation (DOT) has loosened its rules on foreign airlines to operate evacuation flights. With the goal of speeding up the evacuation of refugees and key personnel from Afghanistan, the DOT has given blanket permissions for foreign airlines to get involved in the evacuation flights until September 30th.

https://simpleflying.com/dot-foreign-ai ... istan/amp/
 
N415XJ
Posts: 910
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:04 pm

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:13 am

Sorry if this is a silly question but why are some aircraft flying to FRA first before heading to Ramstein? Are they carrying paid pax/cargo to FRA or are the planes empty? Is there maybe some sort of outfitting that has to take place in FRA first?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8352
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:15 am

Possibly ramp space at ETAR—it’s not that big. Perhaps ETAR is mog’d out, no room. I’ve seen this act before—an huge start turns into a massive traffic jam at some intermediate location. It took weeks to un-mess the initial mess that was Desert Shield. Then we did it again for other contingencies.
 
spauls121
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:02 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:20 am

Does anyone know what N2138U is going to be doing? It was originally scheduled to start CRAF flying tomorrow, doing LAX-SFO-FRA then on to XJD on Wednesday before all three legs were cancelled, and now it is listed as doing LAX-SFO-FRA on Wednesday, though when one goes onto the flight status page it's listed as "Canceled" in green text (UA normally has "Canceled" in red text)
 
mikeyp224
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:52 pm

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:38 am

N415XJ wrote:
Sorry if this is a silly question but why are some aircraft flying to FRA first before heading to Ramstein? Are they carrying paid pax/cargo to FRA or are the planes empty? Is there maybe some sort of outfitting that has to take place in FRA first?


In terms of crew rest, after flying TATL like that, they need at least the FAA minimum for rest. It's easier to have them RON in FRA then work FRA-RMS-IAD the following day then it would be to RON at Ramstein. No passengers on the US->FRA flights though. They are just ferry flights.
 
jjbiv
Posts: 1313
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:58 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:26 am

Boof02671 wrote:
B757capt wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
AA doesn’t have a maintenance base at SAT, that would be Boeing.

AA only has maintenance bases (heavy maintenance) at CLT, PIT, TUL and PHX.

All other stations that have maintenance are line stations and some have line hangars.


AA uses VT Aerospace as a vendor for heavy Mtc in SAT and BFM. They also have lots of outsourced work at SAL, but you knew that.

They also used Boeing at SAT for some 787 rework.

Boeing is not located at SAT. They have a facility at SKF (Kelly Field). VT Aerospace is the major MRO operation at SAT.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2686
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:26 am

mikeyp224 wrote:
N415XJ wrote:
Sorry if this is a silly question but why are some aircraft flying to FRA first before heading to Ramstein? Are they carrying paid pax/cargo to FRA or are the planes empty? Is there maybe some sort of outfitting that has to take place in FRA first?


In terms of crew rest, after flying TATL like that, they need at least the FAA minimum for rest. It's easier to have them RON in FRA then work FRA-RMS-IAD the following day then it would be to RON at Ramstein. No passengers on the US->FRA flights though. They are just ferry flights.

Plus AA has its own mechanics at FRA easier for the plane to have its required maintenance done and ETOPS checks, instead of mechanics who are assigned to the flight to get clearances etc to be out in the SIDA area.
 
USAirKid
Posts: 884
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:36 am

jeffrey0032j wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
I wonder if they couldn't just reach an agreement with Emirates to run a shuttle between Dubai and Atlanta or something like that. They have plenty of A380s sitting idle.


The US Government has a Buy American requirement, I’m sure there are some exceptions, but since this is work US carriers can do, they get the work.

This is much more than a Buy American for the sake of protectionism, but more of a national security requirement that requires trusted commercial partners.


Well apparently I was wrong..

Boof02671 wrote:
DOT Allows Foreign Carriers To Operate Afghanistan Evacuations

The United States Department of Transportation (DOT) has loosened its rules on foreign airlines to operate evacuation flights. With the goal of speeding up the evacuation of refugees and key personnel from Afghanistan, the DOT has given blanket permissions for foreign airlines to get involved in the evacuation flights until September 30th.

https://simpleflying.com/dot-foreign-ai ... istan/amp/
 
USAirKid
Posts: 884
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:37 am

I'm curious, do CRAF flights have the normal IFE offerings that would be offered for a normal passenger flight?
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10034
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:40 am

Boof02671 wrote:
DOT Allows Foreign Carriers To Operate Afghanistan Evacuations

The United States Department of Transportation (DOT) has loosened its rules on foreign airlines to operate evacuation flights. With the goal of speeding up the evacuation of refugees and key personnel from Afghanistan, the DOT has given blanket permissions for foreign airlines to get involved in the evacuation flights until September 30th.

https://simpleflying.com/dot-foreign-ai ... istan/amp/


Simple Flying picks it up two days after ch-aviation.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... vacuations

The order, issued on August 20, specifies the FACP will only cover operations on behalf of the US government and only internationally - it does not extend to domestic (cabotage) operations in the US.
 
dstblj52
Posts: 736
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:48 am

USAirKid wrote:
I'm curious, do CRAF flights have the normal IFE offerings that would be offered for a normal passenger flight?

Their usually not turned off so yeah, in general if the aircraft has it they can be used wifi is sometimes turned off for security reasons otherwise
 
JJR
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:18 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:10 pm

Is this Sun Country B738 also operating for the CRAF?

Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2306
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:32 pm

JJR wrote:
Is this Sun Country B738 also operating for the CRAF?

Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sun Country is a CRAF international short haul contractor.

The flight’s CMB “codeshare” number conforms to the “US Transportation Command”. According to FlightAware
 
bigb
Posts: 1449
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:58 pm

N415XJ wrote:
Sorry if this is a silly question but why are some aircraft flying to FRA first before heading to Ramstein? Are they carrying paid pax/cargo to FRA or are the planes empty? Is there maybe some sort of outfitting that has to take place in FRA first?


Part 117 rest requirements. Easier to stop in FRA and hit the crest rest reset then the crew operate in and then back out.
 
saab805
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:02 pm

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:46 pm

People need to eat. Not sending catering from the United States.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2686
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:57 pm

AA 9991 scheduled FRA-RMS-IAD

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL9991
 
mxaxai
Posts: 2773
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:21 pm

saab805 wrote:
People need to eat. Not sending catering from the United States.

I suspect that crew rest and scheduling are the cause for the stop at FRA. There's food at RMS too. Local canteen kitchens and restaurants are providing meals for the evacuees. The air base's own kitchen is apparently under construction right now, so catering must be brought in from outside. https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/afg ... -1.5389278 [German, 22.08.2021]

Here's a video with scenes from RMS (captions in German, with a brief comment by USAF commander Josh Olson of the 86th AW) from Saturday, 21.08.2021. You can see that tents have been set up for most people but the hangars are being used as well.
https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/rheinland ... g-100.html

And this video from today, 24.08.2021. https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/rheinland ... n-100.html

The first flight to the US had about 60 passengers aboard "to test the procedures". Five further flights brought about 450 evacuees to the US on Monday. Most people are expected to stay at RMS for about 5 days if everything goes as planned. More than 7000 people have arrived already, which is getting close to the stated limit of 10,000, so accomodations for another 2000 people is being prepared nearby at the US Army Rhine Ordnance Barracks in Kaiserslautern, Germany (who have room for up to 4000). https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/rheinland ... n-100.html [German]
 
Fuling
Posts: 403
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:41 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:28 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
DOT Allows Foreign Carriers To Operate Afghanistan Evacuations

The United States Department of Transportation (DOT) has loosened its rules on foreign airlines to operate evacuation flights. With the goal of speeding up the evacuation of refugees and key personnel from Afghanistan, the DOT has given blanket permissions for foreign airlines to get involved in the evacuation flights until September 30th.

https://simpleflying.com/dot-foreign-ai ... istan/amp/


Looks like they've got QR operating flights from DOH to RMS.
 
spauls121
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:02 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:44 am

N2331U, the second UA 77W to join the effort is arriving at Ramstein shortly https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N23 ... /KORD/ETAR

Interestingly enough, the 2 UA 77Ws activated thus far are their oldest (N2331U) and their newest (N2352U)
 
rj777
Posts: 1854
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 1:47 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:00 pm

I think I read somewhere that WN is involved
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2686
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:21 pm

rj777 wrote:
I think I read somewhere that WN is involved

WN is involved moving some of those evacuated only domestically in the US.

https://simpleflying.com/southwest-afgh ... sport/amp/
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4925
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:59 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
rj777 wrote:
I think I read somewhere that WN is involved

WN is involved moving some of those evacuated only domestically in the US.

https://simpleflying.com/southwest-afgh ... sport/amp/


Interesting! If wikipedia is correct, WN participates in the program, but only for domestic flying. However, these flights are being operated as charter flights outside the CRAF deployment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Reserve_Air_Fleet
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 905
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:21 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
scbriml wrote:

It's been stated many times in the thread already that the CRAF planes will not be flying into Afghanistan. USAF will ferry evacuees out of Afghanistan and then they'll transfer to CRAF flights to get to the US.

Ohh ok I didn't read that part....

But still why 4 of United? And not 3 like the other airlines?


It could be aircraft availability who knows, why does it matter 3 or 4 not much of a difference


All true...
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2637
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:44 am

Re: Updated: US Activates the CRAF program for Afghanistan

Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:43 am

I know that I have noticed Allegiant, United and Southwest a/c ferrying to Fort McCoy (WI) from IAD on a regular basis the past week or so.

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