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c3000flyboy
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Posts: 133
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 8:11 am

Why couldn't the Hi-Fly charter model work in Canada?

Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:13 am

Is it a combo of low-costs and ability to dispatch quickly that makes companies like Hi-Fly so darn successful?

Why couldn't something like this work again in Canada?
We have low crew costs here as pay hasn't moved much (When I started as an FA in 1999 the hourly was $19.50. 21years later companies start at $14.50 - $23hr) and now that the world has gone to hell, many type rated pilots are cooling their jets.

Yes, once upon a time, there was Nationair that did loads of interesting flying (*The safety reputation of the company and tragedy is not part of this debate) and Transat did the occasional Hajj and sub-charter.

This question particularly came to mind a couple of years ago when WJ had a couple of Omni 767s sitting for the entire winter season for one, maybe two, years to cover mechanicals in YYZ (YYC too?)

So yeah, just always been a line of thinking I've needed to get out of my mind.
There. Done. No more sleepless nights! Lol
 
burnsie28
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Re: Why couldn't the Hi-Fly charter model work in Canada?

Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:25 pm

I don't know that I would call them so darn successful. HiFly itself essentially has one operating aircraft with pax, not including the spicejet leased aircraft. The other aircraft are converted for loose cargo,

HiFly Malta has eight operating aircraft, and two that are leased to other carriers. World Airways was the same style as HiFly. In the US and Canada, typically the airlines have the ability to handle charters with better guarantees if something goes wrong with the original aircraft. Eastern is also near a HiFly style carrier as well. Canada 3000 was probably the last near HiFly carrier in Canada that I can think of, ad hoc charters are just riskier to operate in North America.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Why couldn't the Hi-Fly charter model work in Canada?

Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:47 am

Hi Fly also has Australia military charters. But it doesn’t hurt that the entire European Economic Zone is considered a single market for purposes of cabotage.
 
CFWAD
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Re: Why couldn't the Hi-Fly charter model work in Canada?

Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:05 am

Crew costs in Canada are not cheap - especially given the new TC regulations referencing crew duty hours.
Nationair was a disaster financially. And times have most definitely moved on in Canada from the charter days of C3, Royal, Transat, etc. An operation like that would be much more successful operating out of a country with limited to no employee unions and less than robust crew and maintenance regulations.
 
smartplane
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Re: Why couldn't the Hi-Fly charter model work in Canada?

Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:14 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Hi Fly also has Australia military charters. But it doesn’t hurt that the entire European Economic Zone is considered a single market for purposes of cabotage.

Or that it's an Airbus strategic partner.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 3104
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Why couldn't the Hi-Fly charter model work in Canada?

Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:47 pm

While costs are one thing, what charter opportunities are currently available in Canada? Does the market support such a venture?
The European and North American markets are quite different in this regard. The US and Canadian markets have never had the same amount of charter or IT flying as their European counterparts. Major US and Canadian airlines do a lot of sports and executive charters that EU airlines just dont seem to. None have dedicated low-density layouts like AC Jetz and Delta do, for example. That flying is done by airlines like Titan, for example.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Why couldn't the Hi-Fly charter model work in Canada?

Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:20 pm

Another thing that may have helped until recently is that Hi Fly had older planes, which often likely had leases depending on whether or not the frames were flying. That is why I was surprised to see Hi Fly sign leases for A330neo aircraft or adopt a company livery (for a long time, their planes were blank).
 
airbazar
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Why couldn't the Hi-Fly charter model work in Canada?

Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:21 pm

burnsie28 wrote:
I don't know that I would call them so darn successful. HiFly itself essentially has one operating aircraft with pax, not including the spicejet leased aircraft. The other aircraft are converted for loose cargo,

We're in a Pandemic and they're adjusting as best as they can but I don't think that was the context of his post. Hi Fly was a very successful airline pre-Pandemic and I see no reason to believe they won't continue to be one. I took the original post as more of a general question as to why there are no such charter airlines in Canada.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10008
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Why couldn't the Hi-Fly charter model work in Canada?

Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:32 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
While costs are one thing, what charter opportunities are currently available in Canada? Does the market support such a venture?


Those are good questions. Canada deregulated air travel well before the EU (and the U.S., even earlier). IMHO there just isn't much of an unmet market for high-volume passenger charters in Canada or the U.S., domestic or international. Scheduled passenger services by Southwest, AirTransat and ULCCs handle demand just fine. If Canada (and I mean the people, not the airline employees) wants more service and lower prices it can embrace Open Skies agreements on the scale the U.S. has.
 
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eta unknown
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Why couldn't the Hi-Fly charter model work in Canada?

Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:08 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Hi Fly also has Australia military charters. But it doesn’t hurt that the entire European Economic Zone is considered a single market for purposes of cabotage.

FYI HiFly is a subcontractor. Adagold actually has the contract with the Australian Govt.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 3041
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Why couldn't the Hi-Fly charter model work in Canada?

Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:14 pm

Well in Canada, we have Nolinor to handle North America (mostly Northern Canada). Canadian North will call upon Nolinor periodically when one of their Eastern (YOW & YUL) based 737s goes in for a C check.

Speaking of Canadian North, they themselves do a lot of charter work with their 737s.

There’s also the likes of Crono Aviation with their pair of 732 combis.

Yes, we have nobody dedicated on the widebody front, but traditionally Transat have handled much of that charter work.

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