Potentially as soon as tomorrow we could see a small order from Delta for some additional A330s. Not sure if these will be new or used just yet.

I hope it's true! For a program that's supposedly dead, the A330neo seems to have a remarkable ability to keep attracting new orders and confounding the critics!

Nevertheless I'm skeptical of any rumours for new long haul aircraft at the moment. Lots of relatively young and highly capable A330ceos on the second hand market at the moment.

Love if this were true, but after the massive recent A350 score that DL just got, plus increased uncertainty in the longhaul market (compared to where expectations largely were a few months ago), I'd find it surprising that they'd want to add even more capacity.

But would love to be wrong/surprised!

I suspect any A330 order would be for second-hand aircraft being purchased at a bargain price. But I'm skeptical: DL's set to take delivery of 20 A339 and A359 aircraft next year; sellers are looking to move aircraft now, and Airbus would give a hearty discount only for aircraft taken delivery of in the near-term. And thus far, DL has shown little interest in returning to a pre-COVID delivery schedule (in other words, accelerating deliveries). And does Airbus still have delivery slots in the near term that it's looking to fill?

Also note that the poster who boosted about this on APC said he's still hearing rumblings about the MAX, which almost immediately makes me skeptical of anything he says, since there's very, very little chance DL would order the MAX at this point in time. The AFJ reported back in May that Castlelake had largely ended negotiations with Lion Air Group and was in advanced negotiations to move the aircraft to another airline... so it wasn't exactly a huge surprise when the deal was announced.

I doubt this rumor to be true. This now is at the point of internet rumors generating internet rumors.

The only thing I could see is some reorganization of the order book that "pulls-ahead" some A339s between calendar years and/or maybe puts a few more on the order book in the out years.

Let me guess if true: Get some A330's from KL or KE or TK or QR?

Well, we will see if it is official.

I could see an additional wide body order if they have a deal in place to sell more 763/764 for freight conversion.

They’re opportunistic buyers and I could see them acting on gently used or unplaced aircraft from a lessor.

WidebodyPTV wrote:

I suspect any A330 order would be for second-hand aircraft being purchased at a bargain price. But I'm skeptical: DL's set to take delivery of 20 A339 and A359 aircraft next year; sellers are looking to move aircraft now, and Airbus would give a hearty discount only for aircraft taken delivery of in the near-term. And thus far, DL has shown little interest in returning to a pre-COVID delivery schedule (in other words, accelerating deliveries).

In the 2Q21 10-Q, DL did announce the pull ahead of 2 A350 and one 339 into 2022. But, in total, planned receipts for 2022 and 2023 across narrow + wide are way down from pre-Covid when they were committed to 70+ new per year.

jbmitt wrote:

I could see an additional wide body order if they have a deal in place to sell more 763/764 for freight conversion.

They’re opportunistic buyers and I could see them acting on gently used or unplaced aircraft from a lessor.

There is no STC for cargo conversion on a 764. And Delta already announced parking of all the 767s by 2025.

I know where they could pick up 15 gently used A332s.

Boof02671 wrote:

jbmitt wrote:

I could see an additional wide body order if they have a deal in place to sell more 763/764 for freight conversion.

They’re opportunistic buyers and I could see them acting on gently used or unplaced aircraft from a lessor.

There is no STC for cargo conversion on a 764. And Delta already announced parking of all the 767s by 2025.

No, they announced the parking of the 763...

IAmGaroott wrote:

I know where they could pick up 15 gently used A332s.

Where is that?

WidebodyPTV wrote:

I suspect any A330 order would be for second-hand aircraft being purchased at a bargain price. But I'm skeptical: DL's set to take delivery of 20 A339 and A359 aircraft next year; sellers are looking to move aircraft now, and Airbus would give a hearty discount only for aircraft taken delivery of in the near-term. And thus far, DL has shown little interest in returning to a pre-COVID delivery schedule (in other words, accelerating deliveries). And does Airbus still have delivery slots in the near term that it's looking to fill?

Also note that the poster who boosted about this on APC said he's still hearing rumblings about the MAX, which almost immediately makes me skeptical of anything he says, since there's very, very little chance DL would order the MAX at this point in time. The AFJ reported back in May that Castlelake had largely ended negotiations with Lion Air Group and was in advanced negotiations to move the aircraft to another airline... so it wasn't exactly a huge surprise when the deal was announced.

On the Delta fleet thread the poster noted this person correctly was the first to state the A350/739ER deals, so sounds as if there is some credibility (if that is true).

Seems like they are lining up more replacements for the 767s. Will be curious to see if they are 339s that clock in at 280+ seats or if they are used 332s/333s - those seem more likely imo

Their retirement might be 5+ years out but if they want to grow - the 330 seems like the logical option

Boof02671 wrote:

jbmitt wrote:

I could see an additional wide body order if they have a deal in place to sell more 763/764 for freight conversion.

They’re opportunistic buyers and I could see them acting on gently used or unplaced aircraft from a lessor.

There is no STC for cargo conversion on a 764. And Delta already announced parking of all the 767s by 2025.

I thought that only applied to the 763? Sad if all of them will be parked. Such a comfortable plane. I've enjoyed them so many years.

jbs2886 wrote:

IAmGaroott wrote:

I know where they could pick up 15 gently used A332s.

Where is that?

Ex AA birds

N292UX wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

IAmGaroott wrote:

I know where they could pick up 15 gently used A332s.

Where is that?

Ex AA birds

Which use an engine that DL doesn’t use. I can’t see DL picking up a 3rd A330ceo engine type.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

Boof02671 wrote:

jbmitt wrote:

I could see an additional wide body order if they have a deal in place to sell more 763/764 for freight conversion.

They’re opportunistic buyers and I could see them acting on gently used or unplaced aircraft from a lessor.

There is no STC for cargo conversion on a 764. And Delta already announced parking of all the 767s by 2025.

No, they announced the parking of the 763...

I stated that in another post, apparently that post and a few others were removed.

jbs2886 wrote:

N292UX wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

Where is that?

Ex AA birds

Which use an engine that DL doesn’t use. I can’t see DL picking up a 3rd A330ceo engine type.

The 333s has Pratt and Whitney and the 332s has Rolls.

Boof02671 wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

N292UX wrote:

Ex AA birds

Which use an engine that DL doesn’t use. I can’t see DL picking up a 3rd A330ceo engine type.

The 333s has Pratt and Whitney and the 332s has Rolls.

The comment was 15 A332s (from AA), which are RR. DL does not operate a RR A332 or A333. So, it is accurate that the 15 aircraft are an engine type DL doesn’t use.

Delta doesn't strike me as an airline that cares about which engine is on a particular aircraft if the deal is good enough.. They have a huge MRO operation that can easily handle it.. They are already handling RR engines with the A350 and A339.. That being said the AA A330s would be a nice pick up, to retire some of the older 767s and stay closer in capacity than the A339s.

jbs2886 wrote:

Which use an engine that DL doesn’t use. I can’t see DL picking up a 3rd A330ceo engine type.

Always did wonder to what degree (if any) that would be mitigated by the RRs on the A339s.

Can anyone more familiar with ops/MRO chime in as to whether they share sufficient design/parts with T700 as to be of any significance?

DCA350 wrote:

Delta doesn't strike me as an airline that cares about which engine is on a particular aircraft if the deal is good enough.. They have a huge MRO operation that can easily handle it.. They are already handling RR engines with the A350 and A339.. That being said the AA A330s would be a nice pick up, to retire some of the older 767s and stay closer in capacity than the A339s.

Delta won’t get a new engine type unless they get permission from the manufacturer to be an overhaul vendor.

That’s why Delta hasn’t ordered a Max as CFM wouldn’t give them the ability to be a vendor for overhauling of the engines.

The original PMNW A330s (11- A332, 21 - A333) have PW engines
The newer tranche of 10 A333s delivered in 2015-2017 have GE engines

Boof02671 wrote:

DCA350 wrote:

Delta doesn't strike me as an airline that cares about which engine is on a particular aircraft if the deal is good enough.. They have a huge MRO operation that can easily handle it.. They are already handling RR engines with the A350 and A339.. That being said the AA A330s would be a nice pick up, to retire some of the older 767s and stay closer in capacity than the A339s.

Delta won’t get a new engine type unless they get permission from the manufacturer to be an overhaul vendor.

That’s why Delta hasn’t ordered a Max as CFM wouldn’t give them the ability to be a vendor for overhauling of the engines.

Thank you for this info. But since they already have approval on two other RR engines, I'm sure they could come to an agreement.

When acquisition of the used 350s was announced, I wondered if DL would want to slow acceptance of new 350s. If this rumour relates to new 339s, it could be linked to that.

But I think used CEOs is a more likely possibility.

LAX772LR wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

Which use an engine that DL doesn’t use. I can’t see DL picking up a 3rd A330ceo engine type.

Always did wonder to what degree (if any) that would be mitigated by the RRs on the A339s.

Can anyone more familiar with ops/MRO chime in as to whether they share sufficient design/parts with T700 as to be of any significance?

My guess is a no to adding the RR700 engines to the current RR work load. It would cost millions to acquire the T700 tooling and there just isn't space for it in the house.

JerseyFlyer wrote:

When acquisition of the used 350s was announced, I wondered if DL would want to slow acceptance of new 350s. If this rumour relates to new 339s, it could be linked to that.

As I mentioned upthread, DL recently announced the pull-ahead of two new A350s from Airbus into 2022, alongside the announcement of the seven used.

IAmGaroott wrote:

I know where they could pick up 15 gently used A332s.

Doubt it. 332s had a place before 333s got PIP'd into decent range but now they're just faily-high CASM planes, and DL's costs aren't any lower than AA's. I wouldn't be confident there is a market-clearing price.

Considering the 321 announcement they just made, DL will be busy with airplane announcements, if true.

Edit to add the link to the 321 announcement. https://news.delta.com/delta-continues- ... s-a321neos

SEcond edit because I’m an idiot.

Good rumor out there although I think somewhere the aircraft type mixed up. Would’ve nailed it if they said 321neos.

Just not seeing the need for more A330s in the near term with the order book and used a359s already committed.

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

Good rumor out there although I think somewhere the aircraft type mixed up. Would’ve nailed it if they said 321neos.

It is to be hoped that someone on a pilot group would know the difference between an A330 and and A321 though!

If it's not new-build A339s ...

And if they don't want Trent 700s (IF...), then used A333s with GE would appear to be the obvious answer. The questions then is how old are they prepared to go?

The youngest ones are Aer Lingus but I can't imagine they are on the market.

Then we are looking at EVA and Turkish, both of whom many be happy to pass on some A330s.

If we go older than six years (2015), there may be planes available from KLM (which would be neat) or China Airlines. Iberia, I'm guessing, will be keeping theirs a while longer.

Qatar or QANTAS probably have used A333s with GE available but they're now pretty old.

If they'd take used A333s with PW, we're probably looking at China Southern or Korean.

I'm not sure how many A330s Cathay (Pacific & Dragon) still have but I'm guessing that Delta must now have the largest A330 fleet in the world. And with more to come.

Boof02671 wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

N292UX wrote:

Ex AA birds

Which use an engine that DL doesn’t use. I can’t see DL picking up a 3rd A330ceo engine type.

The 333s has Pratt and Whitney and the 332s has Rolls.

DL's A330s from NW are A330-223s and A330-323s => PW4168A/4170;
DL's newer A330-300s are A330-302s => GE CF6-80E1A4.

PM wrote:

I'm not sure how many A330s Cathay (Pacific & Dragon) still have but I'm guessing that Delta must now have the largest A330 fleet in the world. And with more to come.

Turkish, Air China, and China Eastern all currently have (slightly) larger fleets, although taking into account current orders yes DL will be the largest.

Perhaps the new NEO light versions with lower MTW are of interest for DL to replace the remaining 767s.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Delta take more leased A330neos. There's been very little success in placing at customers other than Delta.

The order is not connected with the 30 more a321 ordered today as simpleflying states, rigjht?

sxf24 wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised to see Delta take more leased A330neos. There's been very little success in placing at customers other than Delta.

So Virgin, TAP, Azul, GECAS, AirAsiaX, ALC, etc don't exist?

I mean, a rather sobering thought is that (even disregarding lessors and dubious orders like Iran Air) Airbus has already placed A330NEOs with more customers than they ever placed new A380s or A345/A346s with.

Kikko19 wrote:

The order is not connected with the 30 more a321 ordered today as simpleflying states, rigjht?

It’s a rumor. It could very well be that the rumor mistook the 330 for the 321.

As discussed, a 330 rumor makes little sense. DL’s set to take delivery of 20 339/359 next year, and sellers are looking to move aircraft now. And DL could’ve accelerated deliveries of its 339/359, but merely moved three aircraft forward.

These planes are scheduled for delivery through 2027. It looks like DL’s executing a long, calculated fleet renewal.

Kikko19 wrote:

The order is not connected with the 30 more a321 ordered today as simpleflying states, rigjht?

There's no mention of A330s, not ceo nor neo, not leased nor purchased, in the SEC filing announcing conversion of options for the thirty firmed 321neos.

https://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/C ... b13484.pdf

Polot wrote:

PM wrote:

I'm not sure how many A330s Cathay (Pacific & Dragon) still have but I'm guessing that Delta must now have the largest A330 fleet in the world. And with more to come.

Turkish, Air China, and China Eastern all currently have (slightly) larger fleets, although taking into account current orders yes DL will be the largest.

You're right. Thank you. It's hard to keep on top of movements with both Turkish and China Eastern steadily rotating A330s out of their fleets.

Good to see such a solid airline putting so much faith in A330s.

WesternDC6B wrote:

zkojq wrote:

I hope it's true! For a program that's supposedly dead, the A330neo seems to have a remarkable ability to keep attracting new orders and confounding the critics!

And, why not? At least from my perspective as a passenger, it is a fine, comfortable aircraft with far less noise than the product from Seattle.

Agree barring the now-extinct A380 and A340, or the newer A350, there's nothing that equals the A330 comfort and noise-levels in Y coming from Seattle ... unless it's one those super rare 8-across 787s (BTW, are there any left?)

Is there really much of a noise difference between the Neo and 787? They are using (basically) the same engine after all. Never thought any of my 787 flights were particularly loud (haven’t flown Neo yet). It was certainly quieter than A330ceos I have been on.

Polot wrote:

Is there really much of a noise difference between the Neo and 787? They are using (basically) the same engine after all. Never thought any of my 787 flights were particularly loud (haven’t flown Neo yet). It was certainly quieter than A330ceos I have been on.

I find GE 787s quieter than RR ones, the Trent spool up is just so much louder. I would expect a GE 787 to be quieter than a A330neo.

WidebodyPTV wrote:

Kikko19 wrote:

The order is not connected with the 30 more a321 ordered today as simpleflying states, rigjht?

It’s a rumor. It could very well be that the rumor mistook the 330 for the 321.

As discussed, a 330 rumor makes little sense. DL’s set to take delivery of 20 339/359 next year, and sellers are looking to move aircraft now. And DL could’ve accelerated deliveries of its 339/359, but merely moved three aircraft forward.

These planes are scheduled for delivery through 2027. It looks like DL’s executing a long, calculated fleet renewal.

Actually, the fact that DL did not accelerate too many new aircraft delivery could very well be a sign that they are taking in used frames: if they feel they need more than 20 widebodies next year (and more than their current order book for the foreseeable future), why accelerate new aircraft delivery at top $$$ when you can snatch used-but-still-in-very-good-shape frames that are currently being offloaded by competitors? It would be actually a very smart move, one that DL is used to doing (on the narrowbody market, but their recent used A350 order shows they can change their MO).

WayexTDI wrote:

WidebodyPTV wrote:

Kikko19 wrote:

The order is not connected with the 30 more a321 ordered today as simpleflying states, rigjht?

It’s a rumor. It could very well be that the rumor mistook the 330 for the 321.

As discussed, a 330 rumor makes little sense. DL’s set to take delivery of 20 339/359 next year, and sellers are looking to move aircraft now. And DL could’ve accelerated deliveries of its 339/359, but merely moved three aircraft forward.

These planes are scheduled for delivery through 2027. It looks like DL’s executing a long, calculated fleet renewal.

Actually, the fact that DL did not accelerate too many new aircraft delivery could very well be a sign that they are taking in used frames: if they feel they need more than 20 widebodies next year (and more than their current order book for the foreseeable future), why accelerate new aircraft delivery at top $$$ when you can snatch used-but-still-in-very-good-shape frames that are currently being offloaded by competitors? It would be actually a very smart move, one that DL is used to doing (on the narrowbody market, but their recent used A350 order shows they can change their MO).

DL could also decide to accelerate some 763 retirement if they get a good sale price for freighter conversions - as someone else, who is respected for knowledge of DL, stated - these ay be premium heavy. DL may also decide to move more widebodies to domestic routes. Or maybe they want an aggressive growth to take advantage of weaknesses in international carriers. There are lots of reasons why this may make sense (I'm *not* saying DL *needs* widebodies, I'm just saying DL could logically acquire more).

jeffrey0032j wrote:

Polot wrote:

Is there really much of a noise difference between the Neo and 787? They are using (basically) the same engine after all. Never thought any of my 787 flights were particularly loud (haven’t flown Neo yet). It was certainly quieter than A330ceos I have been on.

I find GE 787s quieter than RR ones, the Trent spool up is just so much louder. I would expect a GE 787 to be quieter than a A330neo.

The simple fact is, they're all much quieter than previous generation long-haul widebodies, especially the 777.