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rjbesikof
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:35 am

dcajet wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Some flights that just recently started (2018-19) or were going to start in 2020 before the pandemic have been reloaded
1) SFO-AMS/ZRH
2) 2nd daily EWR-FRA
3) EWR-NCE
4) 2nd daily SFO-ICN
Usually around this time of year, United unveils its new routes. Will they be doing that is year or will they just be readding routes that were suspended due to COVID in NS22?
Also noticed that EWR-DBV and ORD-KEF have not been reloaded for S22 yet. IAD-ATH be getting a longer season starting in June and not July. Did the ORD-KEF and EWR-DBV flights do poorly or did they not get to it just yet?


Would you have the approx. restart dates for the above flights?


Someone correct me if I am wrong but this was what I found:
SFO-ZRH restarts 5/6/2022.
SFO-AMS restarts 3/26/2022 (at the beginning of NS22).
EWR-NCE commences 5/1/2022
SFO-ICN 2nd flight restarts 3/26/2022
EWR-FRA 2nd flight launches 10/31/2021 as a subdaily flight initially.
And IAD-ATH will start on 6/3/2022 next year
Wonder what took them this long for EWR-FRA to go more than daily.
 
dctraynr
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:13 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:56 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
It will be unlimited like the South Pacific. CPT needs it to split the continents. Without 240 the flight is 30-45 minutes longer.


You have a very ETOPS-appropriate username.
 
Cmac787
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:37 am

Looks sharp!!!

NYPECO wrote:
Picture of first United 757 in new livery.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTOKhSYsbZE ... =copy_link
 
Cmac787
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:42 am

N27258 737MAX8 is scheduled to exit PDX induction and ferry to IAH F2761/31Aug.
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 615
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:02 am

NYPECO wrote:
Picture of first United 757 in new livery.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTOKhSYsbZE ... =copy_link


Can't wait for the daylight pics!
 
jayunited
Posts: 3608
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:39 am

rjbesikof wrote:
dcajet wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Some flights that just recently started (2018-19) or were going to start in 2020 before the pandemic have been reloaded
1) SFO-AMS/ZRH
2) 2nd daily EWR-FRA
3) EWR-NCE
4) 2nd daily SFO-ICN
Usually around this time of year, United unveils its new routes. Will they be doing that is year or will they just be readding routes that were suspended due to COVID in NS22?
Also noticed that EWR-DBV and ORD-KEF have not been reloaded for S22 yet. IAD-ATH be getting a longer season starting in June and not July. Did the ORD-KEF and EWR-DBV flights do poorly or did they not get to it just yet?


Would you have the approx. restart dates for the above flights?


Someone correct me if I am wrong but this was what I found:
SFO-ZRH restarts 5/6/2022.
SFO-AMS restarts 3/26/2022 (at the beginning of NS22).
EWR-NCE commences 5/1/2022
SFO-ICN 2nd flight restarts 3/26/2022
EWR-FRA 2nd flight launches 10/31/2021 as a subdaily flight initially.
And IAD-ATH will start on 6/3/2022 next year
Wonder what took them this long for EWR-FRA to go more than daily.


I think you are reading ways to much into the future schedule, United has only done a partial update of the schedule through winter of 2022 for the most part they haven't touched spring or summer 2022. Should European countries follow the EU recommendations and prohibit unvaccinated American's from traveling to their individual countries United may have to adjust our European capacity this fall, which could jeporadize some of our European routes we already operate and could delay the resumption of flights SFO-CDG, the 2nd EWR-FRA flights.

If you are looking at any long haul international routes beyond winter 2022 I would say pump the breaks because it if far to early to say with certainty what will operate and what won't and revenue management and the schedulers haven't really taken a look at the spring/summer 2022 season yet.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10465
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: United BOS-LHR

Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:15 pm

VDemerest wrote:
airbazar wrote:
IIRC, BOS is LHR's second largest U.S. market after NYC. It's a huge market that *A/A++ is missing out on. And although UA doesn't call LHR a hub, T2 is a de facto *A hub. BOS-LHR and BOS-NRT are 2 routes that I'd argue, need a *A presence.


BOS is *NOT* the "Number Two" market from London Heathrow.

OK care to enlighten us as to what are the largest LHR-U.S. O&D markets?
Even if it's not #2 it's probably #3 at which point we're just splitting hairs here.

Lots of things have changed during this Pandemic. All your statements might have had some reason pre-pandemic but not anymore. For starters UA is not running a full pre-pandemic schedule into LHR and probably won't be for a very long time. LHR has a use it or lose slot policy that has been temporarily put on hold but it won't last forever. It stands to reason that to occupy said slots they could try and operate flights from a underserved (by UA), market. You know, like DL did at one point long before their tie-up with VS.
 
EFA2014
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:42 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:37 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
dcajet wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Some flights that just recently started (2018-19) or were going to start in 2020 before the pandemic have been reloaded
1) SFO-AMS/ZRH
2) 2nd daily EWR-FRA
3) EWR-NCE
4) 2nd daily SFO-ICN
Usually around this time of year, United unveils its new routes. Will they be doing that is year or will they just be readding routes that were suspended due to COVID in NS22?
Also noticed that EWR-DBV and ORD-KEF have not been reloaded for S22 yet. IAD-ATH be getting a longer season starting in June and not July. Did the ORD-KEF and EWR-DBV flights do poorly or did they not get to it just yet?


Would you have the approx. restart dates for the above flights?


Someone correct me if I am wrong but this was what I found:
SFO-ZRH restarts 5/6/2022.
SFO-AMS restarts 3/26/2022 (at the beginning of NS22).
EWR-NCE commences 5/1/2022
SFO-ICN 2nd flight restarts 3/26/2022
EWR-FRA 2nd flight launches 10/31/2021 as a subdaily flight initially.
And IAD-ATH will start on 6/3/2022 next year
Wonder what took them this long for EWR-FRA to go more than daily.


IAD-ATH has been running all summer..so it will be a restart
 
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chrisnh
Posts: 4184
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: United BOS-LHR

Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:21 pm

Please check this article out:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/new ... 1028904783

You will see that for LHR routes, JFK is #1 and BOS is #2 (in terms of pre-COVID REVENUE)
 
User avatar
adamh8297
Posts: 3307
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: United BOS-LHR

Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:58 pm

chrisnh wrote:
Please check this article out:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/new ... 1028904783

You will see that for LHR routes, JFK is #1 and BOS is #2 (in terms of pre-COVID REVENUE)


Great link!! Does that revenue count for someone flying BOS-LHR-GVA?

airbazar wrote:
VDemerest wrote:
airbazar wrote:
IIRC, BOS is LHR's second largest U.S. market after NYC. It's a huge market that *A/A++ is missing out on. And although UA doesn't call LHR a hub, T2 is a de facto *A hub. BOS-LHR and BOS-NRT are 2 routes that I'd argue, need a *A presence.


BOS is *NOT* the "Number Two" market from London Heathrow.

OK care to enlighten us as to what are the largest LHR-U.S. O&D markets?
Even if it's not #2 it's probably #3 at which point we're just splitting hairs here.

O+D wise - historically Los Angeles, SF, Orlando, and Miami have been larger than Boston to LON (all airports) depending on the year. Obviously Orlando comprises a lot of alternative airports on both ends.

Also it doesn't appear Norse will come to BOS yet that may help UA (and B6) with BOS-LHR.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10465
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: United BOS-LHR

Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:44 pm

adamh8297 wrote:

O+D wise - historically Los Angeles, SF, Orlando, and Miami have been larger than Boston to LON (all airports) depending on the year. Obviously Orlando comprises a lot of alternative airports on both ends.

LHR not LON. It's an important distinction because LHR is where the money is, it's where corporate clients want to fly to, it's where the competition flies to, it's where UA has slots to protect, and it's the route that they showed intentions of flying. I'm not saying it will happen, I'm just saying this routes makes a lot more sense for UA than most people give it credit for.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26855
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Re: United BOS-LHR

Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:01 pm

hitower3 wrote:
Fun fact: ALL aircraft currently in UA's mainline fleet are able to complete the route LHR-BOS non-stop.


No, they aren't - particularly the LHR-BOS part.
 
Cmac787
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:36 pm

N13014 787-10 has ferried to VCV for storage today 31Aug.
 
codc10
Posts: 3218
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United BOS-LHR

Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:41 pm

jumpjets wrote:
I don’t think this has been mentioned yet but as far as I recall the Slots for the UA LHR-BOS were awarded as remedy slots required as a condition for allowing the BA, AA etc. TATL joint business arrangement.


UA did not apply for a BOS remedy slot. This is a UA slot. AFAIK only B6 and DL applied for the BOS-LHR remedy slot and that has not yet been awarded.
 
codc10
Posts: 3218
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:42 pm

Cmac787 wrote:
N13014 787-10 has ferried to VCV for storage today 31Aug.


Storage? Weird... though TATL traffic is likely to collapse again if more restrictions are implemented.
 
Cmac787
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:49 pm

I think it’s an issue between Boeing and the FAA

codc10 wrote:
Cmac787 wrote:
N13014 787-10 has ferried to VCV for storage today 31Aug.


Storage? Weird... though TATL traffic is likely to collapse again if more restrictions are implemented.
 
Cmac787
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:55 pm

N226UA PW 777-200 is scheduled to exit storage and ferry XMN-SFO-HNL-GUM-XMN for heavy MX 31Aug
 
audidudi
Posts: 2989
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:30 pm

Cmac787 wrote:
N226UA PW 777-200 is scheduled to exit storage and ferry XMN-SFO-HNL-GUM-XMN for heavy MX 31Aug

You meant she's exiting and ferrying from ROW, though GUM>XMN appears to have been cancelled: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n226ua
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4705
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:10 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
NYPECO wrote:
Picture of first United 757 in new livery.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTOKhSYsbZE ... =copy_link


Can't wait for the daylight pics!


Just saw in Denver just now. Sorry the lighting is terrible. It is super smoky and hazy today.


Image
 
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cosyr
Posts: 1643
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:20 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
NYPECO wrote:
Picture of first United 757 in new livery.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTOKhSYsbZE ... =copy_link


Can't wait for the daylight pics!


Just saw in Denver just now. Sorry the lighting is terrible. It is super smoky and hazy today.


Image

That livery is made for the 752! I love it
 
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adamh8297
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Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: United BOS-LHR

Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:17 pm

airbazar wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:

O+D wise - historically Los Angeles, SF, Orlando, and Miami have been larger than Boston to LON (all airports) depending on the year. Obviously Orlando comprises a lot of alternative airports on both ends.

LHR not LON. It's an important distinction because LHR is where the money is, it's where corporate clients want to fly to, it's where the competition flies to, it's where UA has slots to protect, and it's the route that they showed intentions of flying. I'm not saying it will happen, I'm just saying this routes makes a lot more sense for UA than most people give it credit for.


I don't have that data BUT it may be good to look at 2011 data since DY was not doing LGW longhaul meaning there not as much LGW traffic we saw in the mid to late 2010's.

Numbers are passengers both ways combined

Los Angeles - LON 740k
San Francisco - LON 550K
Boston - LON 510K
Miami - LON 477K

I sampled some data from avationdb and there were no LGW/STN/LTN flights to any of those destinations nor an alternative airport (i.e OAK or FLL). ATL and CLT still had up to daily Gatwick flights that year.

I doubt there were that many people flying BOS/LAX/SFO-LGW during that year.

Even with that data I agree with you that it is in Star's and UA's best interest to have a BOS-LHR route.
 
Cmac787
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:40 pm

U are correct. To many double shifts lol

audidudi wrote:
Cmac787 wrote:
N226UA PW 777-200 is scheduled to exit storage and ferry XMN-SFO-HNL-GUM-XMN for heavy MX 31Aug

You meant she's exiting and ferrying from ROW, though GUM>XMN appears to have been cancelled: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n226ua
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1459
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: United BOS-LHR

Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:42 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
Please check this article out:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/new ... 1028904783

You will see that for LHR routes, JFK is #1 and BOS is #2 (in terms of pre-COVID REVENUE)


Great link!! Does that revenue count for someone flying BOS-LHR-GVA?

airbazar wrote:
VDemerest wrote:


BOS is *NOT* the "Number Two" market from London Heathrow.

OK care to enlighten us as to what are the largest LHR-U.S. O&D markets?
Even if it's not #2 it's probably #3 at which point we're just splitting hairs here.

O+D wise - historically Los Angeles, SF, Orlando, and Miami have been larger than Boston to LON (all airports) depending on the year. Obviously Orlando comprises a lot of alternative airports on both ends.

Also it doesn't appear Norse will come to BOS yet that may help UA (and B6) with BOS-LHR.


Thank you. I think people often confuse nonstop passenger numbers between LHR and XXX airport in the US and assume that means it's a larger overall O&D market when there's so much wrong with that assumption:

1. Geography. Someone flying BOS-LON is much less likely to connect via a third city than someone flying LAX, SFO, MCO or MIA to LON or vice versa.

2. The number of people connecting beyond on either end of the airport pairs. Geography plays a role here too. Someone looking for a cheap way to NYC for example is unlikely to fly LHR-LAX-JFK to do it.
 
Golfmikey
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:41 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:58 pm

Cmac787 wrote:
I think it’s an issue between Boeing and the FAA

codc10 wrote:
Cmac787 wrote:
N13014 787-10 has ferried to VCV for storage today 31Aug.


Storage? Weird... though TATL traffic is likely to collapse again if more restrictions are implemented.



correct it is a manufacturing issue that they haven't resolved yet. or if they have resolved it, i haven't seen a press release they have

https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing- ... faa-2021-7
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:14 am

codc10 wrote:
Cmac787 wrote:
N13014 787-10 has ferried to VCV for storage today 31Aug.


Storage? Weird... though TATL traffic is likely to collapse again if more restrictions are implemented.


014 isn’t in United’s possession yet, still at Boeing.
 
Cmac787
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:11 am

N33714 737-700 scheduled to enter AMA paint 02Sep for Evo blue livery
N14731 737-700 scheduled to exit AMA paint 02Sep with Evo blue livery
 
Cmac787
Posts: 265
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:17 am

N66051 767-400 scheduled to exit ROW storage and ferry ROW-SFO-HNL-GUM-HKG for MX 02Sep. Down to 4 767-400’s in storage.
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:34 am

@jayunited, when able I would love to hear how booking trends are going.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:29 pm

United adds a new winter route from Orange County - Aspen Daily News

From Dec. 16 through March 26, the Chicago-based airline will offer a daily flight between John Wayne Airport (SNA) in Santa Ana, California, and the Aspen-Pitkin County Airport (ASE). The two-hour, eight-minute flights will leave SNA at 4 p.m. Pacific time and arrive at ASE just after 7 p.m. Mountain time, a United Airlines spokesman said.

Conversely, the flight from Aspen will leave at 2 p.m. Mountain time and arrive in Santa Ana just after 3 p.m. Pacific time. The new flights are now loaded into United’s schedule and available for sale.


Operated on a SkyWest CR7.
 
Golfmikey
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:48 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
codc10 wrote:
Cmac787 wrote:
N13014 787-10 has ferried to VCV for storage today 31Aug.


Storage? Weird... though TATL traffic is likely to collapse again if more restrictions are implemented.


014 isn’t in United’s possession yet, still at Boeing.


good point but it seems like it is ready to go once faa signs off on the fix if it can fly chs-vcv
 
Golfmikey
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:54 pm

Cmac787 wrote:
N66051 767-400 scheduled to exit ROW storage and ferry ROW-SFO-HNL-GUM-HKG for MX 02Sep. Down to 4 767-400’s in storage.



i wonder what the plan is for 763? Bring the rest of 764 out of storage before finishing the retro fits on the remaining 5, 763? i know it came out they wanted those 5 763 done before next summer. I think HKG can handle 4 planes at a time, but i might be wrong on that
 
jbs2886
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:50 pm

Golfmikey wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
codc10 wrote:

Storage? Weird... though TATL traffic is likely to collapse again if more restrictions are implemented.


014 isn’t in United’s possession yet, still at Boeing.


good point but it seems like it is ready to go once faa signs off on the fix if it can fly chs-vcv


No, Boeing gets approval for ferry flights all the time. There's a reason plenty of MAX were ferried to storage facilities while grounded.
 
Cardude2
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:56 pm

Golfmikey wrote:
Cmac787 wrote:
N66051 767-400 scheduled to exit ROW storage and ferry ROW-SFO-HNL-GUM-HKG for MX 02Sep. Down to 4 767-400’s in storage.



i wonder what the plan is for 763? Bring the rest of 764 out of storage before finishing the retro fits on the remaining 5, 763? i know it came out they wanted those 5 763 done before next summer. I think HKG can handle 4 planes at a time, but i might be wrong on that


I should remind you that N661UA, N662UA, and N663UA are still stored in Roswell for some reason (they are 3 of the 763's that are not done, waiting for Polaris without PE).
 
Cardude2
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:57 pm

I think the reason they haven't finished is all the slots in Hong Kong are currently filled by 767's getting maintenance.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:33 pm

 
AaronPGH
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:08 pm

Is there enough life left in these 752s for United to do an upgrade to direct aisle J, matching the Max 10s and XLRs?
 
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:14 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
Is there enough life left in these 752s for United to do an upgrade to direct aisle J, matching the Max 10s and XLRs?


Might be a little late for that seeing as UA is instead just refreshing the existing Diamond J seats with new fabric covers and new Y seats.

I think the jury is also still out on how well the Polaris seat might fit into a narrowbody, if at all. It could end up being a tight fit or not be space-efficient. Wasn't there also a leak on here (maybe more than a year ago) that showed the 737 MAX 10 getting J seats similar to the new B6 A321 LR seats? Those seats look nice, though they also look pretty tight, and the angle away from the window is not ideal.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:42 pm

Just a reminder that we don't allow links to competing sites.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
dcajet
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:15 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
Is there enough life left in these 752s for United to do an upgrade to direct aisle J, matching the Max 10s and XLRs?


They will be out of the door by 2024 with the arrival of the A321XLRs.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:30 pm

intotheair wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
Is there enough life left in these 752s for United to do an upgrade to direct aisle J, matching the Max 10s and XLRs?


Might be a little late for that seeing as UA is instead just refreshing the existing Diamond J seats with new fabric covers and new Y seats.

I think the jury is also still out on how well the Polaris seat might fit into a narrowbody, if at all. It could end up being a tight fit or not be space-efficient. Wasn't there also a leak on here (maybe more than a year ago) that showed the 737 MAX 10 getting J seats similar to the new B6 A321 LR seats? Those seats look nice, though they also look pretty tight, and the angle away from the window is not ideal.

The issue with Polaris is width of the 757 fuselage and fixed locations of Door 1 and Door 2. There is just not enough length to put in 16 Polaris seats. Maybe 12 would fit to replace 16 Diamond.

The only way to pull it off would be to clear the entire area between Door 1 and 2, but that would take a least 2 to 3 rows of Y to move galleys and a lav and still might not fit 16 Polaris seats. Maybe #2 below could work with removing closet, lav and galleys. However, this is probably too expensive to do on an older aircraft that is being replaced internationally with a 321XLR and could serve the Transcon/HI market for several more years as is. There would have to be a detailed redesign of the Polaris seat to fit into the space on the 752, even more expense.

Other ideas:

Let's look at the 777 vs. 752:
If you take half the width of the 777 you would get 2 sets of Polaris seats and an aisle in a total of 115.5 inches (half of the 777's 231" width).
The 757 has a width of 139.3 inches, which means there would be 23.8 extra inches of width left over. Seems no way to utilize this extra width IMHO.

Let's look at maybe comparing to the narrower 787 for a couple options:
If you take half the width of the 787 you would get 2 sets of Polaris seats and an aisle in a total of 108 inches (half of the 787 216" width).
The 757 has a width of 139.3 inches, which means there would be 31.3 extra inches of width left over.
1.) To add a single middle seat (straight forward) it would take at least 43 inches for the seat and a second aisle, so that doesn't work.
2.) It might be possible to use the extra 31.8 inches by rotating all seats a bit so that the feet from the current straight seats are next to the passenger's head in front of them. However to use the same space as the Diamond seats, it would require a reduction of about 20 inches of pitch per seat set and that would undoubtedly make the seating too tight. In fact, at that pitch the seats would look Diamond seats with walls and no all aisle access.
Maybe a slight rotation could work with removing lav/galley/closets to utilize the space to get in 16 Polaris seats.
 
Cmac787
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:55 am

I think 061 767-400 should be about ready when 051 gets there.

[

quote="Cardude2"]I think the reason they haven't finished is all the slots in Hong Kong are currently filled by 767's getting maintenance.[/quote]
 
iflyabunch
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:12 am

calpsafltskeds wrote:
intotheair wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
Is there enough life left in these 752s for United to do an upgrade to direct aisle J, matching the Max 10s and XLRs?


Might be a little late for that seeing as UA is instead just refreshing the existing Diamond J seats with new fabric covers and new Y seats.

I think the jury is also still out on how well the Polaris seat might fit into a narrowbody, if at all. It could end up being a tight fit or not be space-efficient. Wasn't there also a leak on here (maybe more than a year ago) that showed the 737 MAX 10 getting J seats similar to the new B6 A321 LR seats? Those seats look nice, though they also look pretty tight, and the angle away from the window is not ideal.

The issue with Polaris is width of the 757 fuselage and fixed locations of Door 1 and Door 2. There is just not enough length to put in 16 Polaris seats. Maybe 12 would fit to replace 16 Diamond.

The only way to pull it off would be to clear the entire area between Door 1 and 2, but that would take a least 2 to 3 rows of Y to move galleys and a lav and still might not fit 16 Polaris seats. Maybe #2 below could work with removing closet, lav and galleys. However, this is probably too expensive to do on an older aircraft that is being replaced internationally with a 321XLR and could serve the Transcon/HI market for several more years as is. There would have to be a detailed redesign of the Polaris seat to fit into the space on the 752, even more expense.

Other ideas:

Let's look at the 777 vs. 752:
If you take half the width of the 777 you would get 2 sets of Polaris seats and an aisle in a total of 115.5 inches (half of the 777's 231" width).
The 757 has a width of 139.3 inches, which means there would be 23.8 extra inches of width left over. Seems no way to utilize this extra width IMHO.

Let's look at maybe comparing to the narrower 787 for a couple options:
If you take half the width of the 787 you would get 2 sets of Polaris seats and an aisle in a total of 108 inches (half of the 787 216" width).
The 757 has a width of 139.3 inches, which means there would be 31.3 extra inches of width left over.
1.) To add a single middle seat (straight forward) it would take at least 43 inches for the seat and a second aisle, so that doesn't work.
2.) It might be possible to use the extra 31.8 inches by rotating all seats a bit so that the feet from the current straight seats are next to the passenger's head in front of them. However to use the same space as the Diamond seats, it would require a reduction of about 20 inches of pitch per seat set and that would undoubtedly make the seating too tight. In fact, at that pitch the seats would look Diamond seats with walls and no all aisle access.
Maybe a slight rotation could work with removing lav/galley/closets to utilize the space to get in 16 Polaris seats.


I could be missing something in your width argument, but they were able to do this with the same Diamond seats that are also present on both the 777 and 787. Is there something special about the 757 Diamond seats?
 
Airlines0613
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:06 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:33 am

intotheair wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
Is there enough life left in these 752s for United to do an upgrade to direct aisle J, matching the Max 10s and XLRs?


Might be a little late for that seeing as UA is instead just refreshing the existing Diamond J seats with new fabric covers and new Y seats.

I think the jury is also still out on how well the Polaris seat might fit into a narrowbody, if at all. It could end up being a tight fit or not be space-efficient. Wasn't there also a leak on here (maybe more than a year ago) that showed the 737 MAX 10 getting J seats similar to the new B6 A321 LR seats? Those seats look nice, though they also look pretty tight, and the angle away from the window is not ideal.

If you read the reviews of B6’s new mint product, all state that the seat is actually wider than it looks and that it’s actually as wide if not wider than wide body lie flats.
 
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calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3357
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:49 am

iflyabunch wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
intotheair wrote:

Might be a little late for that seeing as UA is instead just refreshing the existing Diamond J seats with new fabric covers and new Y seats.

I think the jury is also still out on how well the Polaris seat might fit into a narrowbody, if at all. It could end up being a tight fit or not be space-efficient. Wasn't there also a leak on here (maybe more than a year ago) that showed the 737 MAX 10 getting J seats similar to the new B6 A321 LR seats? Those seats look nice, though they also look pretty tight, and the angle away from the window is not ideal.

The issue with Polaris is width of the 757 fuselage and fixed locations of Door 1 and Door 2. There is just not enough length to put in 16 Polaris seats. Maybe 12 would fit to replace 16 Diamond.

The only way to pull it off would be to clear the entire area between Door 1 and 2, but that would take a least 2 to 3 rows of Y to move galleys and a lav and still might not fit 16 Polaris seats. Maybe #2 below could work with removing closet, lav and galleys. However, this is probably too expensive to do on an older aircraft that is being replaced internationally with a 321XLR and could serve the Transcon/HI market for several more years as is. There would have to be a detailed redesign of the Polaris seat to fit into the space on the 752, even more expense.

Other ideas:

Let's look at the 777 vs. 752:
If you take half the width of the 777 you would get 2 sets of Polaris seats and an aisle in a total of 115.5 inches (half of the 777's 231" width).
The 757 has a width of 139.3 inches, which means there would be 23.8 extra inches of width left over. Seems no way to utilize this extra width IMHO.

Let's look at maybe comparing to the narrower 787 for a couple options:
If you take half the width of the 787 you would get 2 sets of Polaris seats and an aisle in a total of 108 inches (half of the 787 216" width).
The 757 has a width of 139.3 inches, which means there would be 31.3 extra inches of width left over.
1.) To add a single middle seat (straight forward) it would take at least 43 inches for the seat and a second aisle, so that doesn't work.
2.) It might be possible to use the extra 31.8 inches by rotating all seats a bit so that the feet from the current straight seats are next to the passenger's head in front of them. However to use the same space as the Diamond seats, it would require a reduction of about 20 inches of pitch per seat set and that would undoubtedly make the seating too tight. In fact, at that pitch the seats would look Diamond seats with walls and no all aisle access.
Maybe a slight rotation could work with removing lav/galley/closets to utilize the space to get in 16 Polaris seats.


I could be missing something in your width argument, but they were able to do this with the same Diamond seats that are also present on both the 777 and 787. Is there something special about the 757 Diamond seats?

777: Diamond Seats are 3 sets of 2 seats plus 2 aisles vs. Polaris 4 modules and 2 aisles. There are twice the seats in the middle of the 777 with Polaris instead of 3 equal sets.
752: Diamond Seats are 2 sets of 2 plus an aisle. Polaris would like to be 2 modules and an aisle, but there is space left over.
 
celestar345
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 5:35 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:05 am

Golfmikey wrote:
Cmac787 wrote:
N66051 767-400 scheduled to exit ROW storage and ferry ROW-SFO-HNL-GUM-HKG for MX 02Sep. Down to 4 767-400’s in storage.



i wonder what the plan is for 763? Bring the rest of 764 out of storage before finishing the retro fits on the remaining 5, 763? i know it came out they wanted those 5 763 done before next summer. I think HKG can handle 4 planes at a time, but i might be wrong on that


Currently in HKG

0278
6666
0061
0065
0066
0015
2139
2476

Definitely more than 4, and the 764s coming over all has had their toll at KROW...
 
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calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3357
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:19 pm

I also show 0056 in HKG as of 8/19/21
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2211
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:46 pm

dcajet wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
Is there enough life left in these 752s for United to do an upgrade to direct aisle J, matching the Max 10s and XLRs?


They will be out of the door by 2024 with the arrival of the A321XLRs.


That’s not quite correct. IIRC, the A321XLR begin arriving in 2024 (Q4?), so it will take some time for the 752s to be “out of the door.”

Does anyone have a timeline for the exit of the 753s?
 
Okcflyer
Posts: 847
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 11:10 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:27 pm

FlyHossD wrote:

Does anyone have a timeline for the exit of the 753s?


Keep in mind the 752, 753, 763, and 764 are the same pilot pool (same type rating). The 753's are pretty useful in United's network due to their very dense capacity, and a CASM a bit better than a 900ER (not as good as Max9).

The retired 752's are likely to be scrapped rather than be sold. This ill help reduce spare part costs for the remaining 753's for a few years. Both have FX and 5X have enough RR powered 752's to keep engine overhauls going at affordable rates.

These factors keep them flying at low cost.

Therefore, it's likely they'll hang around for a few more years after the 752's are retired. They'll likely be limited to a handful of hub-hub routes, west coast - Hawaii, and hub-MCO routes to limit the number of spare parts and AMT's required.

If network capacity needs cut, these along with the 763 and 764's become the "assets" to retire. Gives United a lot of options to adjust to changing market environment.

*this is my outsider opinion.
 
Cmac787
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:02 pm

N72405 737-900 scheduled to exit ROW storage and ferry to IAH MX 02sep. first 737-900 non ER out of storage
 
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Acey559
Posts: 1476
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:10 pm

Obviously things can change, but I feel like I remember it mentioned internally that the 756 fleet will be fully retired by 2026. I'll see if I can dig around for that (also may have come from ALPA and not the company) but 2026 stands out in my mind from past communications.

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