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logprog
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:27 am

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:18 am

Please read the whole paragraph and don't take one sentence out of context, remember this was over a year ago. The point I was trying to make was that they could have used Cityflyer to take on the LGW routes and eventually take on some of the MAX LOI aircraft. It has been reported that some of the people at the top of the new operation are from Cityflyer and the company will be called Euroflyer, make of that what you will.
 
heebeegb
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:01 pm

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:16 pm

by738 wrote:
BACF is quite a neat operation and customers like the product, so maybe will be ok


Quite, it will be fine. Too much was made of BA lite/low cost/new airline etc

This will essentially be BA to the public.
 
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B742
Posts: 3605
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:48 am

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:35 pm

'British Airways has revealed the initial destinations for its new Gatwick Airport subsidiary, which will start flying from March 2022. Tickets to 35 short-haul destinations will also be on sale from Tuesday 14 December'


https://mediacentre.britishairways.com/ ... subsidiary

BA is back at Gatwick. Routes include destinations within Netherlands, Spain, Cyprus, Italy, Portugal, Malta, Morocco, Turkey, Croatia, Germany & Greece.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 5147
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:07 pm

" Customers will receive the same high level of service they expect of British Airways as well as enjoying the benefits of travelling with the UK’s flag carrier including a generous baggage allowance, free water and snacks, free seat selection at -24 hours and frequent flyer benefits which include lounge access."
1) That's quite far from the reality
2) No BoB?
3) Seat selection is only free at certain fare levels as is lounge access £££
 
Opus99
Posts: 3174
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:08 pm

skipness1E wrote:
" Customers will receive the same high level of service they expect of British Airways as well as enjoying the benefits of travelling with the UK’s flag carrier including a generous baggage allowance, free water and snacks, free seat selection at -24 hours and frequent flyer benefits which include lounge access."
1) That's quite far from the reality
2) No BoB?
3) Seat selection is only free at certain fare levels

There’s BOB. says customers can select from speed bird cafe if they want more
 
heebeegb
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:01 pm

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:14 pm

skipness1E wrote:
" Customers will receive the same high level of service they expect of British Airways as well as enjoying the benefits of travelling with the UK’s flag carrier including a generous baggage allowance, free water and snacks, free seat selection at -24 hours and frequent flyer benefits which include lounge access."
1) That's quite far from the reality
2) No BoB?
3) Seat selection is only free at certain fare levels as is lounge access £££


Same as LHR short haul
 
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ClassicLover
Posts: 5467
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:52 pm

skipness1E wrote:
" Customers will receive the same high level of service they expect of British Airways as well as enjoying the benefits of travelling with the UK’s flag carrier including a generous baggage allowance, free water and snacks, free seat selection at -24 hours and frequent flyer benefits which include lounge access."
1) That's quite far from the reality
2) No BoB?
3) Seat selection is only free at certain fare levels as is lounge access £££


"Quite far from the reality" - how do you mean? It's precisely what is offered now.

Seat selection is only free for certain levels of frequent flyers (basically anyone with status, Bronze from 7 days out, Silver and Gold and above at the time of booking) - it's not free for anyone else on European flights, no matter what the fare.

Every BA frequent flyer knows that the BA CityFlyer service out of LCY is often better than that out of LHR and LGW. Considering Gatwick will be on the same model with this, I see nothing but good things here from the customer's point of view.
 
heebeegb
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:01 pm

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:37 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
" Customers will receive the same high level of service they expect of British Airways as well as enjoying the benefits of travelling with the UK’s flag carrier including a generous baggage allowance, free water and snacks, free seat selection at -24 hours and frequent flyer benefits which include lounge access."
1) That's quite far from the reality
2) No BoB?
3) Seat selection is only free at certain fare levels as is lounge access £££


"Quite far from the reality" - how do you mean? It's precisely what is offered now.

Seat selection is only free for certain levels of frequent flyers (basically anyone with status, Bronze from 7 days out, Silver and Gold

and above at the time of booking) - it's not free for anyone else on European flights, no matter what the fare.

Every BA frequent flyer knows that the BA CityFlyer service out of LCY is often better than that out of LHR and LGW. Considering Gatwick will be on the same model with this, I see nothing but good things here from the customer's point of view.



Quite right
 
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JerseyFlyer
Posts: 1987
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 7:24 pm

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:14 pm

Will the "densified" 777 fleet at LGW be integrated into BA Euroflyer or be flown as a remote offshoot of BA at LHR?

And will the domestic schedules, previously at LGW and now at LHR, return to LGW (JER in particular!)?
 
BaronHamstead
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:33 pm

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:23 pm

British Airways long haul at Gatwick will remain part of mainline. I think you will also find that some of the Heathrow 777s may be densified in World Traveller.
Domestic schedules may return over time as the short haul fleet increases. I think people need to realise that this is the initial network for Summer 2022.
Over the next two or three years, I am sure it will expand and diversify some more.
It will be interesting how the Winter schedule will look. Maybe more city breaks, ski flights etc... and some charters. However, with contracts in place that
allow for the greater seasonality at Gatwick the offering should be more sustainable.
I am surprised at the omission of Edinburgh. It carried a few hundred thousand per year pre-covid and could still support twice daily frequency now.
Likewise, I am sure Gatwick -Jersey in addition to the Heathrow service could do well as a summer seasonal.
However, I expect initial fleet size has meant some routes may have to wait. The original plan was to increase base size by 3 aircraft a year for several years after 2022.
Interesting times.
 
BaronHamstead
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:33 pm

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:28 pm

British Airways have also added Gatwick to New York for next summer, initially as a summer seasonal. Orlando has also been increased twice daily from Gatwick and once daily from
Heathrow. At the moment looking like 12 777 required for next Summer at Gatwick. There are indications that there may be more to come. Overall a good recovery for BA long haul at Gatwick compared to 2020 and 2021.
So BA presence at Gatwick (both long haul and short haul) significantly up for next Summer, compared to 2020 and 2021.. Looking forward to hearing that that South Terminal may re-open. Be good to use those BA lounges again!
 
by738
Posts: 3262
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:32 pm

The plans may be there but will the passengers…? 3x Daily LON to MCO is ambitious to say the least..
 
BaronHamstead
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:33 pm

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:00 pm

I do not believe they would have put on the extra flights if there were not signs that the demand was there.
The flights were usually twice daily in the Summer. Add to that 2 years of hardly anything to Orlando and you have a lot of pent up demand.
 
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Crosswind
Posts: 2716
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 4:34 am

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:05 pm

by738 wrote:
The plans may be there but will the passengers…? 3x Daily LON to MCO is ambitious to say the least..


How many daily did Virgin operate with 747s pre-pandemic? BA are using much smaller aircraft than the 747… and now so are Virgin.

I’m sure the demand is there… and there’s an opportunity ;)
 
heebeegb
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:01 pm

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:40 pm

Didn’t DY have an LGW MCO too pre covid and maybe even a TPA? Those are gone
 
by738
Posts: 3262
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:13 pm

Crosswind wrote:
pre-pandemic

And there lies the 2022 ambitious issue (bookings will need to start flowing Feb/March)
 
User avatar
Crosswind
Posts: 2716
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 4:34 am

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:20 pm

by738 wrote:
Crosswind wrote:
pre-pandemic

And there lies the 2022 ambitious issue (bookings will need to start flowing Feb/March)


Exactly - and I work for an airline - you either run and hide behind the sofa, or go out there in the market. What’s clear to all is that the demand is at 2019 levels. The random government restrictions are the issue.
 
Breathe
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:36 pm

heebeegb wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
" Customers will receive the same high level of service they expect of British Airways as well as enjoying the benefits of travelling with the UK’s flag carrier including a generous baggage allowance, free water and snacks, free seat selection at -24 hours and frequent flyer benefits which include lounge access."
1) That's quite far from the reality
2) No BoB?
3) Seat selection is only free at certain fare levels as is lounge access £££


Same as LHR short haul

Maybe I'm not aware, but do LHR SH offer free water and snacks now instead of just BoB only?

PS. Is your username a reference to The Heebie Jeebie? :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNn-VkhZiZE
 
Breathe
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:39 pm

BaronHamstead wrote:
British Airways long haul at Gatwick will remain part of mainline. I think you will also find that some of the Heathrow 777s may be densified in World Traveller.
Domestic schedules may return over time as the short haul fleet increases. I think people need to realise that this is the initial network for Summer 2022.
Over the next two or three years, I am sure it will expand and diversify some more.
It will be interesting how the Winter schedule will look. Maybe more city breaks, ski flights etc... and some charters. However, with contracts in place that
allow for the greater seasonality at Gatwick the offering should be more sustainable.
I am surprised at the omission of Edinburgh. It carried a few hundred thousand per year pre-covid and could still support twice daily frequency now.
Likewise, I am sure Gatwick -Jersey in addition to the Heathrow service could do well as a summer seasonal.
However, I expect initial fleet size has meant some routes may have to wait. The original plan was to increase base size by 3 aircraft a year for several years after 2022.
Interesting times.

I would have thought EDI might return as well.
 
AAMDanny
Posts: 359
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:54 pm

Crosswind wrote:
by738 wrote:
The plans may be there but will the passengers…? 3x Daily LON to MCO is ambitious to say the least..


How many daily did Virgin operate with 747s pre-pandemic? BA are using much smaller aircraft than the 747… and now so are Virgin.

I’m sure the demand is there… and there’s an opportunity ;)


Usually x2 a day (VS15 / VS27). Both B744 in the 14J/66W/375Y. The winter months would drop to at least daily with a second daily on most days.

At one point in the UK School Summer Holidays, there would be x3 B744'sout of LGW (VS27, VS15 and the extra being a VS49)

Not to mention the x2 daily B744's out of MAN and the season BFS/GLA to MCO...

Virgin Atlantic / Virgin Holidays did a very good job in filling up the seats on those Jumbos...
 
JumboMaiden
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:28 am

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:25 am

Will any of the routes that also go from Heathrow be stopped?
 
JumboMaiden
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:28 am

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:49 am

Amsterdam Netherlands 29 March 2022
Larnaca Cyprus 29 March 2022
Paphos Cyprus 29 March 2022
Seville Spain 29 March 2022
Tenerife Spain 29 March 2022
Verona Italy 29 March 2022
Arrecife (Lanzarote) Spain 30 March 2022
Faro Portugal 30 March 2022
Malta Malta 30 March 2022
Catania (Sicily) Italy 31 March 2022
Malaga Spain 31 March 2022
Marrakech Morocco31 March 2022
Nice France 31 March 2022
Alicante Spain 1 April 2022
Antalya Turkey 2 April 2022
Las Palmas (Gran Canaria) Spain 2 April 2022
Bari Italy 3 April 2022
Dubrovnik Croatia 4 April 2022
Turin Italy 4 April 2022
Ibiza Spain 5 April 2022
Palma (Mallorca) Spain 7 April 2022
Berlin Germany 8 April 2022
Venice Italy 8 April 2022
Mahon (Menorca) Spain 11 April 2022
Madrid Spain 14 April 2022
Thessaloniki Greece 14 April 2022
Bordeaux France 15 April 2022
Milan Malpensa Italy 15 April 2022
Santorini Greece 15 April 2022
Cagliari (Sardinia) Italy 17 April 2022
Dalaman Turkey 23 April 2022
Heraklion (Crete) Greece 24 April 2022
Kos Greece 24 April 2022
Rhodes Greece 28 April 2022
AthensGreece 4 May 2022

People from Manchester or Scotland don't want to go on holiday to the Caribbean (not much else on the 777 routes)
without a laborious transfer I guess!
 
SEU
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:21 pm

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:07 pm

What is the fleet that this airline will use ? will it just use BA planes, or will BA transfer some over to the new airline?
 
User avatar
Crosswind
Posts: 2716
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 4:34 am

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:25 pm

SEU wrote:
What is the fleet that this airline will use ? will it just use BA planes, or will BA transfer some over to the new airline?


Rumoured to be the current unused A321 CEO fleet. But nothing confirmed.
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:06 pm

Crosswind wrote:
SEU wrote:
What is the fleet that this airline will use ? will it just use BA planes, or will BA transfer some over to the new airline?


Rumoured to be the current unused A321 CEO fleet. But nothing confirmed.


That would make sense. They will want to push those unit costs down as much as possible.
 
ahj2000
Posts: 1418
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:05 am

How’s the rail situation at Gatwick? Could one feasibly get to LGW by rail from the north of England to save a bit of hassle on that connection that does not exist? (I imagine Scotland would be too far.) my knowledge of mainland rail in London is that there are about 4000 termini in the city, and that different ones go to different places. (Or at least that’s what I remember from trip research before that one got COVID cancelled…) Is Gatwick connected to important parts of the rest of the country?
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:45 am

ahj2000 wrote:
How’s the rail situation at Gatwick? Could one feasibly get to LGW by rail from the north of England to save a bit of hassle on that connection that does not exist? (I imagine Scotland would be too far.) my knowledge of mainland rail in London is that there are about 4000 termini in the city, and that different ones go to different places. (Or at least that’s what I remember from trip research before that one got COVID cancelled…) Is Gatwick connected to important parts of the rest of the country?


Gatwick has a good rail connection, id argue better connected than LHR - at least for choice of destinations. There are direct trains to St Pancras (Kings Cross) which connects the midlands and east coast mainline to Scotland, with Euston only a short walk for the west coast main line. Lots of Scottish travelers tend to use MAN which has a direct train service from the airport.
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:28 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
How’s the rail situation at Gatwick? Could one feasibly get to LGW by rail from the north of England to save a bit of hassle on that connection that does not exist? (I imagine Scotland would be too far.) my knowledge of mainland rail in London is that there are about 4000 termini in the city, and that different ones go to different places. (Or at least that’s what I remember from trip research before that one got COVID cancelled…) Is Gatwick connected to important parts of the rest of the country?


Gatwick has a good rail connection, id argue better connected than LHR - at least for choice of destinations. There are direct trains to St Pancras (Kings Cross) which connects the midlands and east coast mainline to Scotland, with Euston only a short walk for the west coast main line. Lots of Scottish travelers tend to use MAN which has a direct train service from the airport.


Unless you're on the Thameslink route, it means a change of trains for pretty much anything north of London though. Not ideal.

I'm a believer some domestic routes will resume out of LGW. This is only the start of operations. More routes will be added. And Scotland is probably the only place outside London BA has made any serious effort to cater for, especially for leisure. I can't see them not flying EDI at the very least.
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:25 am

BangersAndMash wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
How’s the rail situation at Gatwick? Could one feasibly get to LGW by rail from the north of England to save a bit of hassle on that connection that does not exist? (I imagine Scotland would be too far.) my knowledge of mainland rail in London is that there are about 4000 termini in the city, and that different ones go to different places. (Or at least that’s what I remember from trip research before that one got COVID cancelled…) Is Gatwick connected to important parts of the rest of the country?


Gatwick has a good rail connection, id argue better connected than LHR - at least for choice of destinations. There are direct trains to St Pancras (Kings Cross) which connects the midlands and east coast mainline to Scotland, with Euston only a short walk for the west coast main line. Lots of Scottish travelers tend to use MAN which has a direct train service from the airport.


Unless you're on the Thameslink route, it means a change of trains for pretty much anything north of London though. Not ideal.

I'm a believer some domestic routes will resume out of LGW. This is only the start of operations. More routes will be added. And Scotland is probably the only place outside London BA has made any serious effort to cater for, especially for leisure. I can't see them not flying EDI at the very least.


Scotland will have LCY and LHR flights. LGW domestic would really only be for connections to long haul, not something i can see BA bothering to chase, particularly as the main Caribbean departure bank is early morning which isnt great for connections.
 
AAMDanny
Posts: 359
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:43 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:

Scotland will have LCY and LHR flights. LGW domestic would really only be for connections to long haul, not something i can see BA bothering to chase, particularly as the main Caribbean departure bank is early morning which isnt great for connections.


Pre Covid BA had a timetable offering flights throughout the day to GLA/EDI ex LGW. It wasn't just about feeding the LGW flights they had a lot of O&D traffic, knowing BA they wouldn't have kept up such frequencies if it wasn't worth their while.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23458
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:45 am

BA mainline will continue offering a daily service from MAN and GLA to LGW IIRC
 
BaronHamstead
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:33 pm

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:38 am

I believe the route offering will diversify as the operation becomes established. The size of the initial fleet is also a constraining factor. The initial 18 aircraft is planned to increase by several units per unit for two or three years. As for use of the A321, they will be fine in the summer for most routes but I see a mix of airbus types myself.
As mainline long haul continues to expand from Gatwick there may well be increased domestic connections. These can be provided by mainline or Euroflyer.
 
JumboMaiden
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:28 am

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:20 pm

gkirk wrote:
BA mainline will continue offering a daily service from MAN and GLA to LGW IIRC


There weren't any LGW trips on the bid window that closed yesterday although that is for March and we are bidding for
February. Still, I expected to see at least MAN on one of our double days.
 
Breathe
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:04 pm

AAMDanny wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:


Pre Covid BA had a timetable offering flights throughout the day to GLA/EDI ex LGW. It wasn't just about feeding the LGW flights they had a lot of O&D traffic, knowing BA they wouldn't have kept up such frequencies if it wasn't worth their while.

I wonder why GLA and MAN are getting LGW but EDI isn't. Lack of demand :confused:
 
BealineV953
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:00 am

Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:34 pm

LuxuryTravelled wrote:
I find it quite ironic they merged the remnants of Dan Air and Cityflyer Express to create EuroFleet LGW.


Hello.
I don’t know if you mean it literally, but British Airways did not directly merge Dan-Air and Cityflyer, unless you mean in a very round about way over a period of three decades.
The timeline for the relevant BA business units is:
March 1992 -
BA created BA Regional (BAR) to run BA services from Birmingham, Manchester and Scotland.
November 1992 -
BA acquired Dan-Air. BA planned for Dan-Air to form the basis of a wholly-owned, ‘low cost’ shorthaul airline. In anticipation of this, Dan-Air was renamed British Airways (European Operations at Gatwick). All BA Gatwick shorthaul services were to migrate to BA(EOG), and pilots and cabin crew were to be employed by the new airline. However, that didn’t happen. Instead, over time, BA(EOG) operations were incorporated into BA.
July 1993 -
BA signed a franchise agreement with CityFlyer Express, and from August ’93 the Gatwick based airline operated all scheduled services as British Airways Express. The agreement was for an initial five years.
1993 -
BA purchased Brymon Airways. Brymon was managed as a wholly owned subsidiary.
January 1995 -
BA signed a franchise agreement with Manx Airlines Europe. Manx was later renamed British Regional Air Lines (BRAL).
1998 -
BA Regional disposed of its ATPs. Many of the routes operated by BAR ATPs were taken on by Brymon.
November 1999 -
BA purchased CityFlyer Express. The airline was managed as a wholly owned subsidiary.
July 2000 -
CityFlyer Express ordered Avro RJ100s. The jets were to upgrade selected routes operated by ATRs, as well as introduce new routes on to the CityFlyer network.
November 2000 -
BA announced that it would restructure its operations at Gatwick into a point-to-point business, marking a shift from previous attempts to build Gatwick as a transfer hub. The shorthaul routes would be refocused on serving the needs of London and South East England.
2001 -
CityFlyer Express services relocated into the North Terminal. The airline was integrated into BA’s short-haul operation.
March 2001 -
BA purchased British Regional Air Lines from the Airlines of Britain group. BA stated that the acquisition would enable BA to better co-ordinate its various shorthaul businesses.
March 2002 -
BA merged Brymon and British Regional Airlines. The new airline was named British Airways CitiExpress.
British Airways CitiExpress was a ‘full service’ airline offering high frequency schedules. It was the second largest regional airline in Europe, with a fleet of 92 aircraft serving more than 120 routes.
December 2002 –
As part of a fleet simplification strategy, BA amended an order with Airbus to receive 10 A321s instead of 12 A318s and three A319s. The airline planned to base its Airbus fleet at Heathrow and Gatwick.
The strategy included re-deploying the CityFlyer fleet of 16 RJ100 aircraft from Gatwick to British Airways CitiExpress at regional airports.
March 2003 -
British Airways CitiExpress operated from London City Airport for the first time, starting routes to Paris, Frankfurt and Glasgow.
September 2003 -
As part of BA’s fleet simplification programme, the last ex-CityFlyer ATR was returned to the lessor. There were now no turboprop aircraft in the BA mainline fleet.
January 2006 -
British Airways CitiExpress was re-launched as BA Connect.
2007 –
British Airways sold BA Connect to Flybe.
The sale did not include the routes to and from London City or the Avro RJ100s.
March 2007 -
BA resurrected CityFlyer Express as a new wholly owned subsidiary to run the services from LCY. BA CityFlyer was awarded an Air Operators Certificate in February 2007, and started operations on 25 March 2007.

So, Dan Air (as BAEOG) was merged into BA’s shorthaul operation at Gatwick, and later Cityflyer Express was merged into BA’s shorthaul operation at Gatwick, rather than the two being merged to create EuroFleet LGW.

And, in wanting to create a wholly-owned, low cost shorthaul airline at Gatwick, and migrate all BA Gatwick shorthaul services to the new company, I guess you can say that what goes around comes around - even if it takes three decades.
 
BealineV953
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:00 am

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:43 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
How’s the rail situation at Gatwick? Could one feasibly get to LGW by rail from the north of England to save a bit of hassle on that connection that does not exist? My knowledge of mainland rail in London is that there are about 4000 termini in the city, and that different ones go to different places (or at least that’s what I remember from trip research before that one got COVID cancelled…) Is Gatwick connected to important parts of the rest of the country?


Gatwick has a good rail connection, I'd argue better connected than LHR - at least for choice of destinations.
There are direct trains to St Pancras (Kings Cross) which connects the midlands and east coast mainline to Scotland, with Euston only a short walk for the west coast main line. .


Unless you're on the Thameslink route, it means a change of trains for pretty much anything north of London though. Not ideal.

.


From Gatwick there is a decent rail service to Reading. From Reading you can connect to the West Country, Wales and to the Midlands and North. For some destinations, going via Reading can be better than going through London. Gatwick also has rail service to Southampton, with connections to the South Coast. However, this service infrequent and slow.
 
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MrHMSH
Posts: 3038
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:53 pm

BealineV953 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:

Gatwick has a good rail connection, I'd argue better connected than LHR - at least for choice of destinations.
There are direct trains to St Pancras (Kings Cross) which connects the midlands and east coast mainline to Scotland, with Euston only a short walk for the west coast main line. .


Unless you're on the Thameslink route, it means a change of trains for pretty much anything north of London though. Not ideal.

.


From Gatwick there is a decent rail service to Reading. From Reading you can connect to the West Country, Wales and to the Midlands and North. For some destinations, going via Reading can be better than going through London. Gatwick also has rail service to Southampton, with connections to the South Coast. However, this service infrequent and slow.


Always been an annoyance of mine that LHR doesn't have the rail links LGW does. Relatively quick train service to the likes of Reading, Watford, Milton Keynes, Peterborough and some towns/cities in Surrey would make a world of difference. Or of course to King's Cross, Euston, Liverpool Street, Victoria etc.
 
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JerseyFlyer
Posts: 1987
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Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:57 pm

LGW is, perhaps surprisingly, better connected to London's business and banking hub ("the City") than is LHR. Direct trains to London Bridge station, only stopping once at East Croydon, an iconic walk across the Thames on London Bridge, and you have arrived!

I have flown to both LGW and LHR from JER for business meetings, so this is direct experience. For West End London, LHR would be better.
Last edited by JerseyFlyer on Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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JerseyFlyer
Posts: 1987
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Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:58 pm

deleted
 
Metchalus
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:46 pm

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:38 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
LGW is, perhaps surprisingly, better connected to London's business and banking hub ("the City") than is LHR. Direct trains to London Bridge station, only stopping once at East Croydon, an iconic walk across the Thames on London Bridge, and you have arrived!

I have flown to both LGW and LHR from JER for business meetings, so this is direct experience. For West End London, LHR would be better.


With Crossrail it'll be possible. To go from Heathrow directly to Liverpool Street and Canary Wharf. Making both airports about equal in terms of connections to London's business districts.
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:21 pm

BealineV953 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:

Gatwick has a good rail connection, I'd argue better connected than LHR - at least for choice of destinations.
There are direct trains to St Pancras (Kings Cross) which connects the midlands and east coast mainline to Scotland, with Euston only a short walk for the west coast main line. .


Unless you're on the Thameslink route, it means a change of trains for pretty much anything north of London though. Not ideal.

.


From Gatwick there is a decent rail service to Reading. From Reading you can connect to the West Country, Wales and to the Midlands and North. For some destinations, going via Reading can be better than going through London. Gatwick also has rail service to Southampton, with connections to the South Coast. However, this service infrequent and slow.


I'm not sure I'd go so far as calling it a decent service to Reading - it takes over an hour and a half to travel the 40 or so miles by an often overcrowded 3 carriage train, which is prone to terminate at Redhill if running more than a few minutes late. In my experience, people travelling by public transport from the Westcountry / Wales / Midlands would rather take a coach directly to LHR than spend longer getting to Gatwick by train.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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Re: New IAG carrier at LGW

Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:32 pm

JumboMaiden wrote:
Will any of the routes that also go from Heathrow be stopped?

I know Lanzarote (ACE) has been cancelled from LHR. Flights were due to end mid-May anyway, but my flights on 9th/16th May have been cancelled and I'm rebooked on the new LGW flights (I have a hotel booked so didn't need to change my dates, which was offered free of charge).
 
chonetsao
Posts: 1170
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Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:35 pm

BealineV953 wrote:
From Gatwick there is a decent rail service to Reading. From Reading you can connect to the West Country, Wales and to the Midlands and North. For some destinations, going via Reading can be better than going through London. Gatwick also has rail service to Southampton, with connections to the South Coast. However, this service infrequent and slow.


It is a Surrey commuter type train runs once per hour, stopping almost all stations along the line until Wokingham. It departs from Gatwick Airport at 6:00; 7:02; 8:02; 8:32; 9:29 (then 29 minutes past every hour until 22:29); 23:20 (final train). The journey takes 92-97 minutes one way. The train is designed to service the Surrey commuter belt hence almost no luggage spaces. It can get very busy at rush hours service, especially for school hours. It is actually quicker to go to Paddington, then London Victoria from west countries or Wales. The reason why it is actually be quicker is due to Reading-Gatwick train is only once per hour, you have to time your train to have a minimum 20-25 minutes to meet the departure since Reading station is very big now with escalators up and then down to different platforms. Plus if you have luggage this train is not really for you.

However, that being said, Gatwick is really convenient for rail transfers. From Bedford, Peterborough, South Coast (Southampton, Portsmouth, Brighton....) and even Kent (via London Bridge), the connection is really easy. Anything west, Heathrow is still the winner via GWR and completion of Elizabeth Line.
 
rj777
Posts: 1914
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Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Tue Dec 28, 2021 3:50 am

Are they going to have a different livery?
 
AMP44
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:01 pm

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:23 am

rj777 wrote:
Are they going to have a different livery?

Very unlikely. Just a small sticker that says "Operated by BA EuroFlyer", similar to the CityFlyer ones, and the ones used by the franchises before.
 
FluidFlow
Posts: 1382
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 am

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Tue Dec 28, 2021 9:15 am

Sticker sounds about right. This way they can shuffle the aircraft around, especially during winter when certain routes will not be sustainable. While in Summer BA will need every aircraft at every airport, in winter they can use excess aircraft from LGW to substitute for aircraft in maintenance. Just remove the sticker and you have a normal BA aircraft.
 
BealineV953
Posts: 376
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Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:42 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
BealineV953 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:

Unless you're on the Thameslink route, it means a change of trains for pretty much anything north of London though. Not ideal.


From Gatwick there is a decent rail service to Reading. From Reading you can connect to the West Country, Wales and to the Midlands and North. For some destinations, going via Reading can be better than going through London. Gatwick also has rail service to Southampton, with connections to the South Coast. However, this service infrequent and slow.


I'm not sure I'd go so far as calling it a decent service to Reading - it takes over an hour and a half to travel the 40 or so miles by an often overcrowded 3 carriage train, which is prone to terminate at Redhill if running more than a few minutes late. In my experience, people travelling by public transport from the Westcountry / Wales / Midlands would rather take a coach directly to LHR than spend longer getting to Gatwick by train.


Hello.
In post 276 ahj2000 asked whether Gatwick is connected by rail to important parts of the rest of the country.
People replied saying that as well as direct services to London, Gatwick has ‘Thameslink’ services through the capital to Luton, Peterborough and other places.
For completeness, I thought it was worth saying that there are trains from Gatwick to Reading.
To avoid any controversy, I’ll remove the word ‘decent’ to say:
“From Gatwick there are direct trains to Reading. From Reading you can connect to the West Country, Wales and to the Midlands and North.
For some destinations, going via Reading can be better than going through London.”
 
BealineV953
Posts: 376
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Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:46 pm

chonetsao wrote:
BealineV953 wrote:
From Gatwick there is a decent rail service to Reading. From Reading you can connect to the West Country, Wales and to the Midlands and North. For some destinations, going via Reading can be better than going through London. Gatwick also has rail service to Southampton, with connections to the South Coast. However, this service infrequent and slow.


It is a Surrey commuter type train runs once per hour, stopping almost all stations along the line until Wokingham. It departs from Gatwick Airport at 6:00; 7:02; 8:02; 8:32; 9:29 (then 29 minutes past every hour until 22:29); 23:20 (final train). The journey takes 92-97 minutes one way. The train is designed to service the Surrey commuter belt hence almost no luggage spaces. It can get very busy at rush hours service, especially for school hours. It is actually quicker to go to Paddington, then London Victoria from west countries or Wales. The reason why it is actually be quicker is due to Reading-Gatwick train is only once per hour, you have to time your train to have a minimum 20-25 minutes to meet the departure since Reading station is very big now with escalators up and then down to different platforms. Plus if you have luggage this train is not really for you.
However, that being said, Gatwick is really convenient for rail transfers. From Bedford, Peterborough, South Coast (Southampton, Portsmouth, Brighton....) and even Kent (via London Bridge), the connection is really easy. Anything west, Heathrow is still the winner via GWR and completion of Elizabeth Line.


Hello.

In post 276 ahj2000 asked whether Gatwick is connected by rail to important parts of the rest of the country.
People replied saying that Gatwick has rail services to London and through the capital to Luton, Peterborough and other places.
For completeness, I thought it was worth saying that there are trains from Gatwick to Reading, from where connections can be made to other places.

You are correct, the Reading-Gatwick direct services are one per hour.
However, numerous connections are available via Clapham Junction. The Reading-Waterloo via Clapham Junction train, once it leaves Berkshire, is a ‘fast’ limited stop service.
There are additional connections via Redhill, but you would have to tolerate a ‘commuter’ service (busy, stops at most stations, limited luggage space).

I regularly use Reading Station. You certainly do not need “a minimum 20-25 minutes” to make a connection, even if you arrive at platform 15 and have to get to platform 4.

To make a Paddington to Victoria connection, at Paddington you’d take escalators down, then walk to the Underground, then take a Circle Line train (very busy during rush hours, stops at all stations, no luggage space), and then at Victoria take escalators up followed by a long walk.
I’d say that connecting at Reading is much easier, particularly with baggage. However, if you prefer going via Paddington and Victoria then so be it.

You said “From ...Southampton ...the connection is really easy”. I did mention the Gatwick to Southampton service, saying that it is “infrequent and slow”.
Given your comments on the Reading-Gatwick service, I’m surprised that you describe the Gatwick-Southampton train as “really easy”.
The Gatwick to Southampton service runs once per hour. The journey takes 1 hour and 53 minutes.
It is a commuter train, passing through towns in Sussex and Hampshire and stopping at all stations along the line to Southampton.
It has limited space for luggage.
The service is very busy at rush hours, especially on school days.
On at least some services the train divides at Barnham, and a new driver is needed. Should the new driver be delayed in arriving at Barnham, the train is held until he or she is available.
At most times of the day, it is quicker to take a train from Gatwick to Clapham Junction, and then a fast service from there to Southampton.
Having said that, the scenery along the line is lovely, and you get a good view of Arundel Castle.
 
BealineV953
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:00 am

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:59 pm

FluidFlow wrote:
Sticker sounds about right. This way they can shuffle the aircraft around, especially during winter when certain routes will not be sustainable. While in Summer BA will need every aircraft at every airport, in winter they can use excess aircraft from LGW to substitute for aircraft in maintenance. Just remove the sticker and you have a normal BA aircraft.


At Heathrow, BA baggage is containerised. At Gatwick it is loose loaded.
In another thread, a reliable source explained that the 'Heathrow' A320s that were operating at LGW (eg G-EUUY, UUZ) have heavy duty rubber linings secured in their holds to enable loose loading.
It may be that removing and re-fitting the rubber linings doesn't take long, However, the point is, there would be more to do than remove or add or remove a sticker.
 
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Polot
Posts: 13107
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Updated: New IAG carrier at LGW - BA EuroFlyer

Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:15 pm

BealineV953 wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
Sticker sounds about right. This way they can shuffle the aircraft around, especially during winter when certain routes will not be sustainable. While in Summer BA will need every aircraft at every airport, in winter they can use excess aircraft from LGW to substitute for aircraft in maintenance. Just remove the sticker and you have a normal BA aircraft.


At Heathrow, BA baggage is containerised. At Gatwick it is loose loaded.
In another thread, a reliable source explained that the 'Heathrow' A320s that were operating at LGW (eg G-EUUY, UUZ) have heavy duty rubber linings secured in their holds to enable loose loading.
It may be that removing and re-fitting the rubber linings doesn't take long, However, the point is, there would be more to do than remove or add or remove a sticker.

With Euroflyer being it’s own AOC it will be even more burdensome. The people flying Euroflyer planes will be Euroflyer employees, not BA employees. If you are moving aircraft around seasonally what do you do with the employees? How will BA staff the seasonal influx of additional planes? How does Euroflyer deal with their seasonal excess of pilots?

Things also start getting messier on the accounting side if you are moving assets back and forth.
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