Twitter is currently awash with rumours claiming that IAG is set to imminently announce that another subsidiary will commence short haul operations from LGW. Apparently an official release will be put out later today.

Anyone know anything about this? Is BA handing over its LGW ops to someone else?

Maybe related to the IAG order of 737 MAX? They did announce the first ones would go to BA for LGW but not until 2023.

AMP44 wrote:

Maybe related to the IAG order of 737 MAX? They did announce the first ones would go to BA for LGW but not until 2023.

This order was never firmed, though if they are setting up a new airline maybe they will actually take some.

Announced to BA this morning. LGW short haul operations from next year.

JumboMaiden wrote:

Announced to BA this morning. LGW short haul operations from next year.

This actually represents a delay of 6 months.

Until recently they have been selling LGW flights for the coming winter, I have had two moved by BA to LHR recently.

JerseyFlyer wrote:

This actually represents a delay of 6 months.

Until recently they have been selling LGW flights for the coming winter, I have had two moved by BA to LHR recently.

That’s not a delay in the startup of the new airline, it just explains why there’s no (or very little) LGW short haul this winter.
The flights were transferred to LHR earlier this week and the new LGW airline was only announced to staff this morning, no way it would ever have been ready to fly this winter.

JumboMaiden wrote:

Announced to BA this morning. LGW short haul operations from next year.

Will it be a BA subsidiary like CityFlyer, or an IAG one like Level?

I wonder why the need for a new brand? Does IAG think that LGW would tarnish the BA brand? LGW is not any worse than any regional airport that BA flies to.

Sounds like another 'Go' is in the offing ?

TokyoImperialPa wrote:

I wonder why the need for a new brand? Does IAG think that LGW would tarnish the BA brand? LGW is not any worse than any regional airport that BA flies to.

It does not necessarily follow that BA at LGW will disappear. Its likely to be something British Airways operated by ABC Airlines. BA at Gatwick did work well prior to the pandemic and was profitable, by all accounts. I imagine the delta in costs between LGW and LHR has dropped significantly since the LHR crew are all on one, unified crew contract. BA will want to reestablish that cost delta and lower cost flight and cabin crew are the only way to do it. Ground handling is already outsourced at LGW, for example.

TokyoImperialPa wrote:

I wonder why the need for a new brand? Does IAG think that LGW would tarnish the BA brand? LGW is not any worse than any regional airport that BA flies to.

Short haul operation to holiday destinations based on LCC business model (737MAX with 'cheaper' crews) just using enough BA brand to make the traditional BA customer think they fly BA.

Likely to be similar to Iberia/Iberia Express division, I imagine. We published part of the staff letter in our article: https://www.headforpoints.com/2021/08/2 ... take-over/

Seems apparent that it is only short haul that will be changing. Long haul flights will continue to be operated by mainline BA (and indeed are currently operating).

New subsidiary to be in place by summer 2022 schedule, so BA have given themselves quite a tight turnaround.

with BA moving long haul to LHR, they need to have something utilizing those slots.

tphuang wrote:

with BA moving long haul to LHR, they need to have something utilizing those slots.

They are not moving long haul to LHR. Some long haul is currently operating from LGW and the statement says the new short haul carrier will operate alongside BA long haul at LGW.

rhysflies wrote:

Likely to be similar to Iberia/Iberia Express division, I imagine. We published part of the staff letter in our article: https://www.headforpoints.com/2021/08/2 ... take-over/

Seems apparent that it is only short haul that will be changing. Long haul flights will continue to be operated by mainline BA (and indeed are currently operating).

New subsidiary to be in place by summer 2022 schedule, so BA have given themselves quite a tight turnaround.

I'm imagining something along the lines of Jetstar in Australia, of KL/AF's Transavia.

Level, surely?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... at-gatwick

It is a BA subsidiary that will operate out of gatwick.

I will expect the MAX LOI to play a role here

Opus99 wrote:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-26/british-airways-proposes-new-unit-to-lower-costs-at-gatwick

It is a BA subsidiary that will operate out of gatwick.

I will expect the MAX LOI to play a role here

Looks just like BA Cityflyer when it comes to pax facing interfaces, I am inferring it as BA liveried planes flown by the new subsidiary.

They could call it British Caledonian or Dan Air....

Opus99 wrote:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-26/british-airways-proposes-new-unit-to-lower-costs-at-gatwick

It is a BA subsidiary that will operate out of gatwick.

I will expect the MAX LOI to play a role here

BA already has the planes. The metal is not the issue! This is, in the short term at least, a cost issue presumably around staffing. It may be that BA is also making use of the pandemic excuse to get itself in a better position to compete with easyJet at Gatwick.

Is there any reason why it couldn't be operated by Aer Lingus with a new hire Gatwick based crew?

JumboMaiden wrote:

Is there any reason why it couldn't be operated by Aer Lingus with a new hire Gatwick based crew?

Possibly due to branding purposes that the LGW airline will still fly under the BA brand? And they don't have to get special approval to operate flights from the UK now that Brexit has occurred.

Sounds like British Airways Express (like iberia Express ) with new cabin crew and pilot contracts .... LGW already had the lowest BA costs so I wonder what their planning for the rump at LHR

Gotta hand it to BA - Lufthansa/Air France have just wasted the last 18 months, their costs going forward will be a nightmare

But the big loser here will be Easyjet . BA can easily undercut them big time.

Here's a news article about it in Dutch:

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... te-richten

It says BA is considering starting a low-cost subsidiary at London Gatwick to better compete with low-cost airlines like EasyJet. BA will not return to Gatwick under their own name, they will use a subsidiary with a significantly lower cost base for that. That lower cost base will be mostly due to hiring cheaper staff. Likely it won't be an entirely new brand but a "BA Express" similar to Iberia Express. IAG already has a low-cost brand in Vueling, which is particularly large in Spain and Italy. They also got LEVEL for low cost long haul out of Barcelona.

That being said, I wonder why they don't just start a Vueling base at Gatwick instead of starting the so maniest brand which nobody has ever heard of. Vueling already has the low cost base they're aiming for.

They should resurrect one of the iconic British airline brands. I'd love to see Britannia back in the skies. They had such a fantastic livery.

Blerg wrote:

They should resurrect one of the iconic British airline brands. I'd love to see Britannia back in the skies. They had such a fantastic livery.

Slight problem with that, BA never owned Britannia Airways. It was rebranded as Thomson Airways and eventually became TUI. Therefor BA is not allowed to use the Britannia name or livery.

If they want brand recognition, 'BA' would need to be in the name. A bit like TUI, Brits wouldn't know how to pronounce Vueling

JumboMaiden wrote:

Is there any reason why this couldn’t be operated by Aer Lingus with a new hire crew base at Gatwick?

It could, but what would be the purpose of that? It's not like Aer Lingus has any advantage over British Airways.

Vueling brand is crap - worse than FR . Just use the BA brand , passengers don't care who's operating the flight at the end of the day

It'll be British Airways exactly as it is now with BA CityFlyer out of London City. Separate airline completely, but it's seamless with the main airline. Exactly like Iberia/Iberia Express.

Therefore it'll just be new contracts, lower costs, called whatever and it will operate with aircraft painted as British Airways (the same aircraft as now), with the same uniforms and the same on board service and all the rest of it.

This is not news for anyone who uses the airline, as for all intents and purposes, nothing will change.

LuxuryTravelled wrote:

rhysflies wrote:

Likely to be similar to Iberia/Iberia Express division, I imagine. We published part of the staff letter in our article: https://www.headforpoints.com/2021/08/2 ... take-over/

Seems apparent that it is only short haul that will be changing. Long haul flights will continue to be operated by mainline BA (and indeed are currently operating).

New subsidiary to be in place by summer 2022 schedule, so BA have given themselves quite a tight turnaround.

I'm imagining something along the lines of Jetstar in Australia, of KL/AF's Transavia.

They already have several to choose from. What would be the point to adding another one with separate upper level staff & added cost.

I don’t expect a different brand. Will be BA branded (no Level, No BA Express). I suspect will just be a config change, perhaps no CE or airport perks. A lesser BACF. All a bit of a sham. Unions probably in no position to moan and BA will capitalise on it. Will go full circle and will be ditched again in a few years.

rhysflies wrote:

Opus99 wrote:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-26/british-airways-proposes-new-unit-to-lower-costs-at-gatwick

It is a BA subsidiary that will operate out of gatwick.

I will expect the MAX LOI to play a role here

BA already has the planes. The metal is not the issue! This is, in the short term at least, a cost issue presumably around staffing. It may be that BA is also making use of the pandemic excuse to get itself in a better position to compete with easyJet at Gatwick.

Oh yes I agree. But I still think it will be something they’ll look at. Given it’s gatwick operations and the max order was for BA at London gatwick primarily

PatrickZ80 wrote:

JumboMaiden wrote:

Is there any reason why this couldn’t be operated by Aer Lingus with a new hire crew base at Gatwick?

It could, but what would be the purpose of that? It's not like Aer Lingus has any advantage over British Airways.

because there’s no money (they claim) to issue me with a new name badge but there’s money to start an airline?!! use one of the non BA “premium” brands is what i thought might be easier…

JumboMaiden wrote:

PatrickZ80 wrote:

JumboMaiden wrote:

Is there any reason why this couldn’t be operated by Aer Lingus with a new hire crew base at Gatwick?

It could, but what would be the purpose of that? It's not like Aer Lingus has any advantage over British Airways.

because there’s no money (they claim) to issue me with a new name badge but there’s money to start an airline?!! use one of the non BA “premium” brands is what i thought might be easier…

The other brands might still have to go through the same process as starting a new brand. As someone said. The frames are already there, the slots are already there and this has the potential to grow even larger than what BA gatwick was. It allows BA the opportunity to enjoy LCC money without having to tarnish their brand by behaving like an LCC when there’s an LCC to do just that

Opus99 wrote:

JumboMaiden wrote:

PatrickZ80 wrote:

It could, but what would be the purpose of that? It's not like Aer Lingus has any advantage over British Airways.

because there’s no money (they claim) to issue me with a new name badge but there’s money to start an airline?!! use one of the non BA “premium” brands is what i thought might be easier…

The other brands might still have to go through the same process as starting a new brand. As someone said. The frames are already there, the slots are already there and this has the potential to grow even larger than what BA gatwick was. It allows BA the opportunity to enjoy LCC money without having to tarnish their brand by behaving like an LCC when there’s an LCC to do just that

BA already behave like a LCC. The base fares have no baggage, buy on board food, no seat selection etc. This is purely about BA being able to cut staff terms and conditions.

seansasLCY wrote:

Opus99 wrote:

JumboMaiden wrote:

because there’s no money (they claim) to issue me with a new name badge but there’s money to start an airline?!! use one of the non BA “premium” brands is what i thought might be easier…

The other brands might still have to go through the same process as starting a new brand. As someone said. The frames are already there, the slots are already there and this has the potential to grow even larger than what BA gatwick was. It allows BA the opportunity to enjoy LCC money without having to tarnish their brand by behaving like an LCC when there’s an LCC to do just that

BA already behave like a LCC. The base fares have no baggage, buy on board food, no seat selection etc. This is purely about BA being able to cut staff terms and conditions.

I hear free food (a snack and water) is back? But even still you can go even lower. They still offer class differentiation on their aircraft, lounge, and yes like you pointed out higher staff terms and conditions. All these things (some unfair I agree) can be removed to create a lower cost base for this new airline

I'm not particularly surprised by this, it's been talked about for what, two or three years now? British Airways 'Leisure' was apparently a working name for this project, but that is going back some months.

Now the move has been confirmed, it will be interesting to see how quickly they can bring it to market - I'm already being peppered with ads for holidays next year. I'm sure some of them were even offering winter 22/23. BA will want a slice of this sooner rather than later.

Any bets on names ?

Dan Air
British Caledonian
British Airtours
CityFlyer Express
GB Airways
Go
Brymon
AML
Cambrian
Northeast
BA Leisure
BA Express

ZuluTime wrote:

Any bets on names ?

Dan Air
British Caledonian
British Airtours
CityFlyer Express
GB Airways
Go
Brymon
AML
Cambrian
Northeast
BA Leisure
BA Express

GB Airways was bought by Easyjet so I guess we can rule that out as they most likely have the rights - it was never a BA name. I assume it will be branded BA but operated by another. So then the name won’t matter. BA Leisure or BA Express probably.

ZuluTime wrote:

Any bets on names ?

Dan Air
British Caledonian
British Airtours
CityFlyer Express
GB Airways
Go
Brymon
AML
Cambrian
Northeast
BA Leisure
BA Express

Given the recent and presumably forthcoming difficult pilot negotiations, maybe "BA Barrukkas" would be most appropriate ?

I think 'BA Baracus' would be excellent!

by738 wrote:

I don’t expect a different brand. Will be BA branded (no Level, No BA Express). I suspect will just be a config change, perhaps no CE or airport perks. A lesser BACF. All a bit of a sham. Unions probably in no position to moan and BA will capitalise on it. Will go full circle and will be ditched again in a few years.

They definitely will not be ditching Club or airport perks. The Club Europe cabins on short haul leisure routes are huge… curtains all the way back to the overwing exits (which is as far back as they go) People treat themselves going on holiday, on short-hauls most corporate travel policies don’t allow Business Class travel on the likes of Frankfurt anymore. No way the airline wants to lose that money from short haul premium leisure. It’s a huge advantage for BA over easyJet at Gatwick.

This is about reducing staff costs, not about having a low cost product to the customer. The current BA short-haul product is actually quite clever. Everyone in economy gets a bottle of water and a biscuit or a packet of crisps. But they can also have buy on board drink or food. And on the same aircraft they have a club cabin with lounge access, baggage allowance, food and champagne. That’s something the low cost carriers can’t compete with because they don’t have the breadth of product.

A very expensive last minute seat on BA which may book into Club is far better value than a similarly priced last minute flight on easyJet, Wizz or Ryanair that gets you very little in terms of product. And I’ve often seen BA Club being close to or cheaper than other one-way options with LCCs.

My money is on BA Express, or similar. Doesn’t say British Airways, but BA Liveried, onboard product the same, nobody is in any doubt about what they’re buying. Cheaper crew contracts basically. Iberia Express 2.0.

I reckon it'll just be the regular BA livery with a small sticker by the door saying "Operated by British Airways express" or something to that effect. A la TUI.

TokyoImperialPa wrote:

I wonder why the need for a new brand? Does IAG think that LGW would tarnish the BA brand? LGW is not any worse than any regional airport that BA flies to.

That's quite a statement! LGW is not any worse than any airport BA flies to......plus it's not a regional airport in the first place. As for tarnishing the brand....BA can do that easily on it's own, with no help from any airport being needed.

fcogafa wrote:

If they want brand recognition, 'BA' would need to be in the name. A bit like TUI, Brits wouldn't know how to pronounce Vueling

Then BAir is the obvious choice.

Apologies if this has been posted already. BBC usually a good source. Afraid link may not work for all.

BA in talks over short-haul Gatwick flights https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58348838

The problem at LGW is that the Club Cabins tend to be more towards redemptions than paid for. BA kept LGW short haul so their elites could redeem holiday flights in the manner they were accustomed and now their elites are not flying in the same way, Club may well be ditched in favour of a one class easyJet clone, which will free up one cabin crew for the rest of the economy cabin.
No point in changing the brand at all frankly, it could be run like BA CityFlyer, at arms length. Still one airline for each London airport is on one level, mad.

OzarkD9S wrote:

fcogafa wrote:

If they want brand recognition, 'BA' would need to be in the name. A bit like TUI, Brits wouldn't know how to pronounce Vueling

Then BAir is the obvious choice.

Bring back British European Airways...

skipness1E wrote:

The problem at LGW is that the Club Cabins tend to be more towards redemptions than paid for. BA kept LGW short haul so their elites could redeem holiday flights in the manner they were accustomed and now their elites are not flying in the same way, Club may well be ditched in favour of a one class easyJet clone, which will free up one cabin crew for the rest of the economy cabin.
No point in changing the brand at all frankly, it could be run like BA CityFlyer, at arms length. Still one airline for each London airport is on one level, mad.

Are you sure about “Elites redeeming holiday flights I’m the manner they were accustomed?” My understanding is that Avios is a major income stream for IAG and BA. The majority of Avios are sold to Amex and other financial institutions. FFPs are hugely profitable for airlines these days.