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PITFlyer330
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United adding Orange County to Aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:10 pm

what??? https://twitter.com/thepointsguy/status ... 68930?s=20

daily SNA to ASE this winter with Crj-700
 
32andBelow
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:13 pm

I mean it makes sense. Rich people going skiing
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:14 pm

At first I read Orange County to Japan then realized Aspen. Both are odd!

But Aspen less so. Ski season is coming and I'm sure the more affluent areas around SNA would love to avoid LAX or a DEN connection to ASE. I can see this being a standout in the winter.
 
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STT757
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:24 pm

I think this makes a lot of sense, affluent vacation destination. They also fly to Hawaii from SNA.
 
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gregn21
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:29 pm

UA ran SNA-MMH seasonally a few years back. Very similar route here and UA’s second simultaneous ptp route out of SNA along with HNL presently.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:35 pm

I’m liking the outside the box thinking. This takes some connecting pressure off of DEN and will probably be a winner financially. Win-win.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:56 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
I’m liking the outside the box thinking. This takes some connecting pressure off of DEN and will probably be a winner financially. Win-win.


I suspect that UA is receiving some sort of financial assistance for the route from the Aspen community. Some of it was probably spent toward TPG article ;). Note that the article mentions that Q1 2019, an average of 8 passengers a day traveled SNA-ASE vs. 155 from LAX, so the market isn't that big to begin with.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:00 pm

Those people are probably driving to LAX to capture the non stop,or flying from SNA and terminating in DEN and taking a bus line or rental car to the mountains. Either option avoids a risky DEN connection in the winter time; and both will skew the numbers of actual demand.
 
WaGuy69
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:08 pm

This is a good thing, I work for a travel agency and the LAX to ASE flight during the winter season the United Airlines flight is always full. So United sees more of an opportunity for those living south of the LAX Airport.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:26 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
Those people are probably driving to LAX to capture the non stop,or flying from SNA and terminating in DEN and taking a bus line or rental car to the mountains. Either option avoids a risky DEN connection in the winter time; and both will skew the numbers of actual demand.


Skiing is largely a novelty for Southern California; today, the most popular ski destinations are local. And its local popularity has been gradually waning - the makeshift "ski centers" that were once plentiful in the region fizzled out in the 1990s. And as SoCal arrivals to legacy hot spots like Heavenly Mountain dropped, there was a huge marketing push for snowboarding, which arguably contributed to the sport gaining worldwide appeal - but little local interest. Today, the marketing push for Tahoe places little focus on skiing/snowboarding/etc.

Hence why in the peak winter season, only an average of 160 people per day travel between SoCal/Aspen, and hence my thoughts that this service is largely subsidized by the Aspen community.
 
AaronPGH
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:29 pm

What? No. Ski resorts have been having their best numbers in years since COVID began. Everyone wants to be outdoors.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:35 pm

Are SNA slots currently "use it or lose it?"
 
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United787
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:52 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
and hence my thoughts that this service is largely subsidized by the Aspen community.


I can't speak to the popularity of skiing in Southern California. But I highly doubt that Aspen is subsidizing this route for two reasons 1) they don't need to, fights into ASE are in high demand in winter AND summer. I have flown ORD-ASE often and the route supports 5+ non-stops daily. 2) if the Town of Aspen is subsidizing this route or even the Aspen Skiing Company, that would be public record.
 
ATCJesus
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:54 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
Those people are probably driving to LAX to capture the non stop,or flying from SNA and terminating in DEN and taking a bus line or rental car to the mountains. Either option avoids a risky DEN connection in the winter time; and both will skew the numbers of actual demand.


Skiing is largely a novelty for Southern California; today, the most popular ski destinations are local. And its local popularity has been gradually waning - the makeshift "ski centers" that were once plentiful in the region fizzled out in the 1990s. And as SoCal arrivals to legacy hot spots like Heavenly Mountain dropped, there was a huge marketing push for snowboarding, which arguably contributed to the sport gaining worldwide appeal - but little local interest. Today, the marketing push for Tahoe places little focus on skiing/snowboarding/etc.

Hence why in the peak winter season, only an average of 160 people per day travel between SoCal/Aspen, and hence my thoughts that this service is largely subsidized by the Aspen community.


This is simply just false. Resorts have had record attendance YOY.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:59 pm

United787 wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
and hence my thoughts that this service is largely subsidized by the Aspen community.


I can't speak to the popularity of skiing in Southern California. But I highly doubt that Aspen is subsidizing this route for two reasons 1) they don't need to, fights into ASE are in high demand in winter AND summer. I have flown ORD-ASE often and the route supports 5+ non-stops daily. 2) if the Town of Aspen is subsidizing this route or even the Aspen Skiing Company, that would be public record.


'Community' doesn't have to mean City of Aspen as a home rule municipality. There's Chamber of Commerce stuff. Voluntary associations of businesses (and not necessarily the resorts). The resorts directly. None of those options would need to be public record.
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:03 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
Those people are probably driving to LAX to capture the non stop,or flying from SNA and terminating in DEN and taking a bus line or rental car to the mountains. Either option avoids a risky DEN connection in the winter time; and both will skew the numbers of actual demand.


Skiing is largely a novelty for Southern California; today, the most popular ski destinations are local. And its local popularity has been gradually waning - the makeshift "ski centers" that were once plentiful in the region fizzled out in the 1990s. And as SoCal arrivals to legacy hot spots like Heavenly Mountain dropped, there was a huge marketing push for snowboarding, which arguably contributed to the sport gaining worldwide appeal - but little local interest. Today, the marketing push for Tahoe places little focus on skiing/snowboarding/etc.

Hence why in the peak winter season, only an average of 160 people per day travel between SoCal/Aspen, and hence my thoughts that this service is largely subsidized by the Aspen community.



This post doesn’t even seem to begin to make sense. Although the opinion is welcome as it should be, it feels very counterintuitive.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:15 pm

Listen to Clearance Delivery (well, probably can’t anymore with DL) at KSNA on a winter Friday, dozens of private Jets going to KASE, KTEX, KSUN. The FAA has a whole plan just KASE and nearby airport.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:18 pm

ATCJesus wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
Those people are probably driving to LAX to capture the non stop,or flying from SNA and terminating in DEN and taking a bus line or rental car to the mountains. Either option avoids a risky DEN connection in the winter time; and both will skew the numbers of actual demand.


Skiing is largely a novelty for Southern California; today, the most popular ski destinations are local. And its local popularity has been gradually waning - the makeshift "ski centers" that were once plentiful in the region fizzled out in the 1990s. And as SoCal arrivals to legacy hot spots like Heavenly Mountain dropped, there was a huge marketing push for snowboarding, which arguably contributed to the sport gaining worldwide appeal - but little local interest. Today, the marketing push for Tahoe places little focus on skiing/snowboarding/etc.

Hence why in the peak winter season, only an average of 160 people per day travel between SoCal/Aspen, and hence my thoughts that this service is largely subsidized by the Aspen community.


This is simply just false. Resorts have had record attendance YOY.


False? A 2016 Cal State Fullerton Study notes that SoCal arrivals into Mount Heavenly had dropped almost 1/3 from their peak in the 1980s. A 2017 LA Times article notes that the lowest percentage of SoCal residents in history reported having skied within the past three years. A 2015 Register article noted that the percentage of local high school students who reported enjoying snowboarding, had dropped below that of the 1990s, when the sport's prominence rose.

If you live in SoCal, this shouldn't be surprising. Last year, the National Ski Areas Association reported that visitors to ski areas were 88.2% white. And a 2017 study concluded that of the people who reported actively skiing, 72% are white. Given the shifting local demographics, it's no wonder the vast majority of the state's skiers are now from the North.

sldispatcher wrote:
This post doesn’t even seem to begin to make sense. Although the opinion is welcome as it should be, it feels very counterintuitive.


I cited some sources. I'm uncertain as to why some people who don't live in SoCal, would bother to aggressively attack the narrative without offering a single counter fact. Oh, I forgot - it's a.net. What we think should be facts, are facts, and real facts are fake news. :)
 
LCDFlight
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:32 pm

You seldom go broke by catering to rich people. Smart add. ASE, EGE, JAC and to some extent BZN type markets are very interesting. Always fun to watch.

I often notice, it's not how many PEOPLE live in a city pair.... sometimes it is how many DOLLARS live on a city pair. And, what is THAT map like...
Last edited by LCDFlight on Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
32andBelow
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:41 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
Those people are probably driving to LAX to capture the non stop,or flying from SNA and terminating in DEN and taking a bus line or rental car to the mountains. Either option avoids a risky DEN connection in the winter time; and both will skew the numbers of actual demand.


Skiing is largely a novelty for Southern California; today, the most popular ski destinations are local. And its local popularity has been gradually waning - the makeshift "ski centers" that were once plentiful in the region fizzled out in the 1990s. And as SoCal arrivals to legacy hot spots like Heavenly Mountain dropped, there was a huge marketing push for snowboarding, which arguably contributed to the sport gaining worldwide appeal - but little local interest. Today, the marketing push for Tahoe places little focus on skiing/snowboarding/etc.

Hence why in the peak winter season, only an average of 160 people per day travel between SoCal/Aspen, and hence my thoughts that this service is largely subsidized by the Aspen community.

What the heck are you talking about. Mountain high, big bear, Tahoe, mammoth are always packed by SoCal skies and riders. No one calls it mount heavenly. And heavenly probably has seen a decline because of the growth of squaw/alpine and the Mega passes.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:46 pm

32andBelow wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
Those people are probably driving to LAX to capture the non stop,or flying from SNA and terminating in DEN and taking a bus line or rental car to the mountains. Either option avoids a risky DEN connection in the winter time; and both will skew the numbers of actual demand.


Skiing is largely a novelty for Southern California; today, the most popular ski destinations are local. And its local popularity has been gradually waning - the makeshift "ski centers" that were once plentiful in the region fizzled out in the 1990s. And as SoCal arrivals to legacy hot spots like Heavenly Mountain dropped, there was a huge marketing push for snowboarding, which arguably contributed to the sport gaining worldwide appeal - but little local interest. Today, the marketing push for Tahoe places little focus on skiing/snowboarding/etc.

Hence why in the peak winter season, only an average of 160 people per day travel between SoCal/Aspen, and hence my thoughts that this service is largely subsidized by the Aspen community.

What the heck are you talking about. Mountain high, big bear, Tahoe, mammoth are always packed by SoCal skies and riders. No one calls it mount heavenly. And heavenly probably has seen a decline because of the growth of squaw/alpine and the Mega passes.


Didn't I post that already? As a whole, the local ski market is largely a niche market concentrated among local destinations; even Heavenly Mountain has seen local arrivals plummet over the past 30+ years.
 
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United787
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:54 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
I cited some sources. I'm uncertain as to why some people who don't live in SoCal, would bother to aggressively attack the narrative without offering a single counter fact. Oh, I forgot - it's a.net. What we think should be facts, are facts, and real facts are fake news. :)


Your sources prove the declining interest in skiing and snowboarding.

My post questioned the assumption that the route was being subsidized. But no evidence was provided that supports that assumption except disbelief by one poster.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:07 pm

It's not just about skiing and snowboarding. Florida is not just about golf. Austin and Nashville not just about music.

Certain markets are catching fire overall, as places to travel and to live in the future. They are not looking back to the 1980s or whatever.
 
ScottB
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:11 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
False? A 2016 Cal State Fullerton Study notes that SoCal arrivals into Mount Heavenly had dropped almost 1/3 from their peak in the 1980s. A 2017 LA Times article notes that the lowest percentage of SoCal residents in history reported having skied within the past three years. A 2015 Register article noted that the percentage of local high school students who reported enjoying snowboarding, had dropped below that of the 1990s, when the sport's prominence rose.


A reduction in attendance at a single resort doesn't demonstrate that interest in skiing as a whole as declined. It's like saying that the decline of Acapulco as a destination means no one goes to beaches in Mexico anymore. If anything, a reduction in visitors from SoCal may only indicate that skiers from the region are more interested in resorts further away/with better snow -- like Aspen. Since skiing isn't exactly an inexpensive sport, spending a few hundred bucks extra on airfare (versus driving) is probably worth it if your week of skiing is going to run you a few grand.
 
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United787
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:52 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
It's not just about skiing and snowboarding. Florida is not just about golf. Austin and Nashville not just about music.

Certain markets are catching fire overall, as places to travel and to live in the future. They are not looking back to the 1980s or whatever.


That is exactly right, although this route is initially showing winter only, Rocky Mountain ski resorts are now as busy during the summer as they are in the winter. And I can verify that Aspen/Snowmass is no exception. This was a trend before COVID and the pandemic is no exception either.

But there is likely a difference on how the flights work in those seasons. A summer trip to Colorado is more likely to include something more than just visiting the resort town, so flying into DEN on one or both legs may be more desirable in the summer.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:26 pm

I think its more telling that UA things this is the highest and best use of an SNA slot.....a CR7 to ASE has more revenue potential than a mainline narrowbody to DEN, IAH, ORD, IAD, EWR, SFO........

(or are some of the SNA slots tied to regional aircraft sized aircraft and fall into a different bucket?)
 
AAKiddo
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:39 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I think its more telling that UA things this is the highest and best use of an SNA slot.....a CR7 to ASE has more revenue potential than a mainline narrowbody to DEN, IAH, ORD, IAD, EWR, SFO........

(or are some of the SNA slots tied to regional aircraft sized aircraft and fall into a different bucket?)


As far as I know, SNA slots aren’t tied to an aircraft movement, but to total number of available seats in a year. So, if United wanted to fly hourly, A321 service to SFO they could.

They probably forecasted a bank of seats they otherwise weren’t going to use. Those available seats opened up from flying smaller gauge aircraft on their existing routes throughout the year.
 
ytib
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:13 pm

AAKiddo wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I think its more telling that UA things this is the highest and best use of an SNA slot.....a CR7 to ASE has more revenue potential than a mainline narrowbody to DEN, IAH, ORD, IAD, EWR, SFO........

(or are some of the SNA slots tied to regional aircraft sized aircraft and fall into a different bucket?)


As far as I know, SNA slots aren’t tied to an aircraft movement, but to total number of available seats in a year. So, if United wanted to fly hourly, A321 service to SFO they could.

They probably forecasted a bank of seats they otherwise weren’t going to use. Those available seats opened up from flying smaller gauge aircraft on their existing routes throughout the year.


This is incorrect. SNA slots are based on flights and available seats on the aircraft, so what was mentioned about hourly service to SFO would not be correct.

https://www.ocair.com/about/administrat ... agreement/
 
joeljack
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:41 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I think its more telling that UA things this is the highest and best use of an SNA slot.....a CR7 to ASE has more revenue potential than a mainline narrowbody to DEN, IAH, ORD, IAD, EWR, SFO........

(or are some of the SNA slots tied to regional aircraft sized aircraft and fall into a different bucket?)



Or until business travel resumes at 80%+ levels, this is a creative way to keep the slot without a ton of risk, maybe even make a little money. I would like to see SNA-EGE too on a E175. I'm surprised they didn't announce both!
 
gmcc
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:51 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I think its more telling that UA things this is the highest and best use of an SNA slot.....a CR7 to ASE has more revenue potential than a mainline narrowbody to DEN, IAH, ORD, IAD, EWR, SFO........

(or are some of the SNA slots tied to regional aircraft sized aircraft and fall into a different bucket?)

CR7 is classified by the airport as a commuter aircraft. Skywest applied for approximately 81000 seats of commuter carrier seats of the 400,000 seats the county preferentially sets aside for what are dubed commuter aircraft, under 70 seats and some weight limit. Quote from the nov meeting
Passenger Capacity Allocations to Commuter Carrier

SkyWest Airlines has requested an allocation of 81,610 passengers, and JSX/Delux has requested an allocation of 95,070 passengers for the 2021 Plan Year.  Because the number of passengers requested is below the 400,000 passengers “prioritized” for use by Commuter Carriers, the Airport Director recommends that 81,610 passengers be allocated to SkyWest Airlines and 95,070 passengers be allocated to JSX/Delux for use during the 2021 Plan Year, for a total of 176,680 passengers.

http://cams.ocgov.com/Web_Publisher_SAM ... 000871.HTM

The 70 seat limit means QX Q400s and all E175 are considered mainline aircraft.
 
rising
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:20 am

70 people, 1 bathroom.... enjoy! Gotta love the CR7.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:07 am

rising wrote:
70 people, 1 bathroom.... enjoy! Gotta love the CR7.


The CRJ-700 is actually the only commercial aircraft type operating in and out of ASE today. In fact, the CR7 is the only jet that airlines have been able to use at ASE since the BAe 146 and Avro RJ were retired from the U.S. skies.

That said, DL completely withdrew from the airport last year - and apparently not just because of the pandemic:

https://www.aspendailynews.com/news/del ... nly%20a%20

It has been said that DL's return to ASE may be conditional on getting the much more comfortable and popular Embraer regional jets certified to operate at ASE. I'm sure AA and UA certainly wouldn't mind being able to serve ASE with the E-170/175, either!

Although AS could theoretically serve ASE with the Q400, they may only want to serve the premium Aspen market with jets too...
 
MIflyer12
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:07 am

rising wrote:
70 people, 1 bathroom.... enjoy! Gotta love the CR7.


It's not like these are six-hour flights, nor that the lav is 32 rows back.
 
rising
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:41 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
rising wrote:
70 people, 1 bathroom.... enjoy! Gotta love the CR7.


It's not like these are six-hour flights, nor that the lav is 32 rows back.


True. Aspen perhaps not the worst. But if you want to feel alive try anything over 2 hours on one of those babies. I think I counted 7 in line on my last flight on one a few weeks back. Makes sense to someone.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:17 am

rising wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
rising wrote:
70 people, 1 bathroom.... enjoy! Gotta love the CR7.


It's not like these are six-hour flights, nor that the lav is 32 rows back.


True. Aspen perhaps not the worst. But if you want to feel alive try anything over 2 hours on one of those babies. I think I counted 7 in line on my last flight on one a few weeks back. Makes sense to someone.


that's literally more than 10% of the flight in the bathroom or waiting for the bathroom at one time on a regional jet. If they had served a meal onboard I would be suspicious. :p
 
afcjets
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Re: United adding Orange County to Aspen

Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:57 am

I think SNA-EGE makes more sense and perhaps could be flown mainline.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:59 am

rising wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
rising wrote:
70 people, 1 bathroom.... enjoy! Gotta love the CR7.


It's not like these are six-hour flights, nor that the lav is 32 rows back.


True. Aspen perhaps not the worst. But if you want to feel alive try anything over 2 hours on one of those babies. I think I counted 7 in line on my last flight on one a few weeks back. Makes sense to someone.

Granted the CR7 is the only feasible aircraft to get into ASE from there.

That said, there was a period awhile immediately post-merger NW/DL that for whatever reason DL was flying CR7s on off-peak DTW-DFW flights, at ~3 hours in-flight.
The single lav was the worst!. You'd have all the people boozin' it up in the SkyClub, then boozin' it up in-flight. Then everyone needed to use the single lav around the 2-hour mark, then you'd have 5+ people queued up the back if the aircraft for the lav.
Was awful or the people in the last few rows with butts in their face for a good portion of the flight of people standing in line for the lav.
Was awful for the people in F since you were always getting cut-off in line by everyone in Y.

Overall a pretty miserable a experience on flight more than 2 hours (and on some of these flights approaching 4 hours from the last change to use the bathroom in the terminal on either end) with a single lav with 70 people.
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:50 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
It has been said that DL's return to ASE may be conditional on getting the much more comfortable and popular Embraer regional jets certified to operate at ASE. I'm sure AA and UA certainly wouldn't mind being able to serve ASE with the E-170/175, either!

Delta and SkyWest are indeed keeping a few CR7s around for ASE service. ATL-ASE and LAX-ASE resume December 18th.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:11 pm

DLASFlyer wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
It has been said that DL's return to ASE may be conditional on getting the much more comfortable and popular Embraer regional jets certified to operate at ASE. I'm sure AA and UA certainly wouldn't mind being able to serve ASE with the E-170/175, either!

Delta and SkyWest are indeed keeping a few CR7s around for ASE service. ATL-ASE and LAX-ASE resume December 18th.


Skywest is hardly the only CR7 operator left at Delta, but they're the only ones with ASE op specs, at this point.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:52 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Overall a pretty miserable a experience on flight more than 2 hours (and on some of these flights approaching 4 hours from the last change to use the bathroom in the terminal on either end) with a single lav with 70 people.


Methinks you're making a little too much of this. Remember the KLM MD-11s with five bathrooms for ~260 people in coach on 12-hr flights? I do.

DL doesn't have a lot of CR7s in the regional fleet: it was just a total of 18 across Endeavor and SkyWest as noted in the 2Q21 10-Q filing. That same filing showed 272 CR9/E70/E75 (and blissfully only 51 CR2s).

I appreciate that sometimes the urge is urgent, but if one can't stand in a line 5-deep then flying has been hell for the last twenty years.

Since CR7s are what Aspen is going to get for the forseeable future, I'll risk a slow potty line over weekend tunnel traffic from Denver.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: United adding Orange County to Aspen

Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:40 pm

There's alot of people looking to avoid airports like LAX right now. This flight will pull in a much larger radius then pre covid. Not sure united has any long term plans but it's a good way to use SNA slots as lesiure traffic is hot and business traffic is cold. When business demand comes back I doubt they will keep flying this. These routes are brilliant and I think we will see more leisure soon but they are not long term. I don't think united plans on flying this forever it's just good timing and money for now
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: United adding Orange County to Aspen

Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:15 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
There's alot of people looking to avoid airports like LAX right now. This flight will pull in a much larger radius then pre covid. Not sure united has any long term plans but it's a good way to use SNA slots as lesiure traffic is hot and business traffic is cold. When business demand comes back I doubt they will keep flying this. These routes are brilliant and I think we will see more leisure soon but they are not long term. I don't think united plans on flying this forever it's just good timing and money for now


A lot of optimism! This particular flight isn't going to pull from a larger radius, since the demographics would largely be unfavorable. The legacy white wealth is largely concentrated around the coast; even Fullerton (!) has seen huge demographic shifts in the past few years. IMO, we're 10 years past the expiration date for this service.
 
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United787
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Re: United adding Orange County to aspen

Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:05 pm

rising wrote:
70 people, 1 bathroom.... enjoy! Gotta love the CR7.


I have flown ASE-ORD often and not sure I have ever used the bathroom. I go in the airport before we take off. I just sip water for the 1st 2/3 of the flight to keep my mouth from getting too dry and then start drinking water in the last 1/3 of the flight so I goto the bathroom in the airport upon arrival. I do the same for all flights under 3 hours (737, A320 etc) since airplane bathroom suck, period.

Except for UA's 787 bathrooms, I was blown away at the spaciousness and no-touch features.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: United adding Orange County to Aspen

Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:55 am

Is there a reason why UA isn’t giving a few CRJ550s back to SkyWest (who is the lessor for some of them) for ASE as United Express? Could that fly out of ASE?
 
Cubsrule
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Re: United adding Orange County to Aspen

Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:27 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Is there a reason why UA isn’t giving a few CRJ550s back to SkyWest (who is the lessor for some of them) for ASE as United Express? Could that fly out of ASE?


There's no way that the -550 can get out of ASE, not would it have the range to operate to any hub but DEN even if it could get out. Remember that they have a pretty significant (paper) derate.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United adding Orange County to Aspen

Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:28 am

There’s no reason to send them to ASE. That is a market that needs more seats not less.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United adding Orange County to Aspen

Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:17 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
There’s no reason to send them to ASE. That is a market that needs more seats not less.

It's a whole new route. That adds seats.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United adding Orange County to Aspen

Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:33 am

TWA772LR wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
There’s no reason to send them to ASE. That is a market that needs more seats not less.

It's a whole new route. That adds seats.


Yes but why only 50 seats when OO already has 70 seaters for this route. Why go through the trouble of certifications for a 550 to add fewer seats than what they already have a certified airplane and carrier for.
 
alasizon
Posts: 3055
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: United adding Orange County to Aspen

Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:45 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Is there a reason why UA isn’t giving a few CRJ550s back to SkyWest (who is the lessor for some of them) for ASE as United Express? Could that fly out of ASE?


OO refuses to fly the 550, UA isn't willing to pay CR7 rates for the 550, they are only paying CR2/ER4 rates for the 550.

Cubsrule wrote:
There's no way that the -550 can get out of ASE, not would it have the range to operate to any hub but DEN even if it could get out. Remember that they have a pretty significant (paper) derate.


The 550 would easily be able to make DEN, even with a bad alternate. Useful range is around 800 miles from everything I've seen on the 550. The derate is mostly MTOW based, not engine performance.

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