Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
NZ516
Posts: 756
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:12 am

Correct as Passenger numbers at airports around the country have been decimated and will take years to recover perhaps a decade or more. There is no opening up plan what so ever for NZ and international travel the borders could remain closed indefinitely to keep NZ at Covid Zero which is the current policy. Here is a recent article on the present situation of New Plymouth Airport.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-ne ... g-lockdown
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:54 am

Also for a lot of NZ the geography makes rail pretty expensive. Even if it would be cheaper than yet more motorways.

Personally I think the ideal would be higher speed regional rail connecting directly with air hubs that then connect with other air hubs for longer distance inter island/inter region travel. With shorter distance inter region travel handled by higher speed regional rail on regular frequencies. Then in urban areas a big focus on cycle and public transport infrastructure.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1978
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:29 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Don't be too sure about that. We're probably on the cusp of having a serious reduction in spending on new roads (or even a moratorium) because of climate change considerations. And I'll wager anything you like that a secondary airport for Auckland just ain't gonna happen - and even if it did, it would be a redevelopment of Whenuapai or Ardmore for smaller (electric or hydrogen) aircraft. But seriously, once the second runway is built at AKL, and taking into account the serious implications of climate change on aviation, there will never be a need for more capacity. I have my doubts even as to whether the second runway will ever be built, anyway.


Two comments.

We've already committed millions into road safety improvements and in lieu of rail infrastructure a dual lane highway extending from Warkworth to WRE much like the Waikato Expressway will be achievable within climate change obstacles. However the future of North Port will be interesting factor, as rail improvements will be conditional if Ports of Auckland moves up there. None of this will happen for 10-15 years. I think there was early works to extend the new motorway through the Dome Valley and either National or Labour announced plans for a tunnel through the Brynderwyns' but gosh that'll be billions and make the Waterview look like an underpass. Not to forget dangerous goods can't be taken via tunnel...

An airport south of WRE isn't an alternative for AKL as such. However it could be seen as an alternative to those living in Warkworth, Matakana, Snells Beach, Omaha, Wellsford, Mangawhai areas.. which are wealthy and quickly developing areas of north Auckland but within the Auckland boundaries. SHOULD an expressway be built.

However services will be limited and it'll have the same challenges places like PPQ, WHK, WKA face
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4619
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:07 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Have we leapt forward in time to 1st April? No way will there ever be high speed rail in NZ.

As nice as HSR would be, it wouldn’t be necessary for this proposal as there will be a motorway all the way from Auckland to Whangarei by the time a new airport is built cutting the journey time down significantly - to the point that from the Upper North Shore, NW and Rodney would all be of similar journey times to travelling to AKL in peak times.

Don't be too sure about that. We're probably on the cusp of having a serious reduction in spending on new roads (or even a moratorium) because of climate change considerations. And I'll wager anything you like that a secondary airport for Auckland just ain't gonna happen - and even if it did, it would be a redevelopment of Whenuapai or Ardmore for smaller (electric or hydrogen) aircraft. But seriously, once the second runway is built at AKL, and taking into account the serious implications of climate change on aviation, there will never be a need for more capacity. I have my doubts even as to whether the second runway will ever be built, anyway.

The time for Whenuapai to be used as a commercial airport has come and gone with all the housing developments around it. The base itself is operating on borrowed time especially since it has been deemed not safe enough for the P-8 to be based there with live ordnance etc. Ardmore is facing similar issues, it isn’t big enough for jet operations and quite frankly it is within spitting distance of AKL airport (but not quite close enough for connections just enough to affect flight paths). Ardmore is for light aircraft.
While a 2 runway airport at AKL will have the capacity, it doesn’t cater for Whangarei (or anywhere north of Rodney), it can’t be used as a military base, and since it is privately owned it isn’t in the business of operating in the public’s best interest or competitively priced.
As for roads, yes there will be certain curtailments happening on additional roads (eg Mill Rd), that doesn’t mean they will stop building roads that significantly improve safety, journey times and also reduce emissions (less corners, hills, distance etc).
 
PA515
Posts: 1678
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:43 am

As it's Maori Language Week, and Raiatea is believed to be the origin of some of our early residents, here's a Sep 2020 Flight Report of VT492 PPT-RFP-BOB. It's 57 min and there's no commentary or loud music, just ATR72-600 F-ORVN, amazing views, and the pax.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujAk3OzcPww&t=5s

PA515
 
zkncj
Posts: 4308
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:21 pm

With the entire Tasman Bubble now popped until at-least the end of November.


NZ seems to have allot of International routes on sale from the 1st Jan 2022. But almost seems slim that those routes open up by then? If we can’t reopen to low risk Australian states eg SA/WA. Then could this current government open be opening up to anywhere else?
Last edited by 777ER on Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed political comments
 
NZ516
Posts: 756
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:27 am

Here is an interesting life story of a NZ flight attendant.
Back in the 1970s it was very hard to get your foot in the door and land a job as a cabin crew member.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/kiwi-trave ... -attendant
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:15 am

aerokiwi wrote:
Sorry, but no it's not a ridiculous question. In lieu of any clear roadmap from government, it's perfectly reasonable to ask some fundamentals about what the objective is here. Because zero-COVID, as the wowsers push, is dependent entirely on closed borders. Dismissing "international mobility" as some frivolous luxury issue for an isolated country like New Zealand is lazy and a stupid insult to myriad people whose lives and livelihoods have been seriously and negatively impacted.

And to remind the self-appointed healthcare czars on here, the ones that revel in doom and this myth of splendid isolation, this is an aviation forum - it's inevitable to question if the government even cares because it impacts the core industry being discussed here. It impacts aviation, tourism and trade for our immediate neighbours too. But nah, we're just avgeeks - stay in our lane!


You've way over-extrapolated what I actually said, and no one said anything about frivolity or luxury. And I'd stand by my basic premise that international travel does not trump all other considerations.

Does anyone revel in the idea of splendid isolation or doom and gloom? I certainly don't and I'm itching to get out of NZ on a much-delayed trip. But not at any cost. Mostly I just have a problem with the "aviation über alles" mentality that sees the solutions to the status quo in simplistic terms and which appears to blind some to the wider issues.
 
NZ516
Posts: 756
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:37 pm

Since the pandemic has started coming up to two years soon. Nearly all international travel has stopped in NZ as can be seen with the huge drop in passengers going through our airports since 2019.

Auckland has gone from 21 million in 2019 then to 15 million in 2020 and now 6 million in 2021 and still falling. Now Auckland is seeing less passengers every year than what CHC and WLG use to have before the pandemic started. We may never see those numbers again.
Wellington Airport has actually overtaken Christchurch this year to claim the number two spot for the first time.
WLG 3,977,776 and CHC 3,705,373. Plus ZQN is down by over 50% as well

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... aland#2021
 
AviatorNZ
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:07 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:03 am

Temporary Whangarei to Wellington service added.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU2109/ ... apital.htm
 
Toenga
Posts: 273
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:55 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:58 am

AviatorNZ wrote:
Temporary Whangarei to Wellington service added.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU2109/ ... apital.htm

Interesting that fuel supply for this service is not the issue that I thought it was.
 
NZ516
Posts: 756
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:34 am

AviatorNZ wrote:
Temporary Whangarei to Wellington service added.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU2109/ ... apital.htm


This is interesting as was mentioned previously the Q300 could not operate from Whangarei to Wellington. Because of the limited runway length for take off weight limits. The story mentions when they first looked at Northland they decided on Kerikeri due to fuel operation requirements. Perhaps fuel supplies have improved in WRE to make the new service work. Might be a very marginal no capacity to take cargo just bags only. Hope the route does well and becomes permanent if demand warrants it.
Last edited by NZ516 on Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
AviatorNZ
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:07 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:39 am

Toenga wrote:
AviatorNZ wrote:
Temporary Whangarei to Wellington service added.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU2109/ ... apital.htm

Interesting that fuel supply for this service is not the issue that I thought it was.


I would imagine the fuel will be uplifted in AKL and WLG, hence the AKL-WRE-WLG-WRE-AKL routing rather than just WLG-WRE-WLG.
 
NZ516
Posts: 756
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:49 am

Ok so still no refuelling in WRE.
 
User avatar
Avtur
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:01 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:19 pm

NZ516 wrote:
AviatorNZ wrote:
Temporary Whangarei to Wellington service added.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU2109/ ... apital.htm


This is interesting as was mentioned previously the Q300 could not operate from Whangarei to Wellington. Because of the limited runway length for take off weight limits. The story mentions when they first looked at Northland they decided on Kerikeri due to fuel operation requirements. Perhaps fuel supplies have improved in WRE to make the new service work. Might be a very marginal no capacity to take cargo just bags only. Hope the route does well and becomes permanent if demand warrants it.


Not sure what the fuel supply looks like in WRE, but the aircraft (Dash-8’s) are departing AKL with a fuel load of 1400kg over the last couple of days.
 
NZ516
Posts: 756
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:00 pm

Thanks Avtur that is a decent load of fuel. So enough to cover both sectors AKL WRE then WRE WLG plus reserve.
 
User avatar
Avtur
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:01 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:19 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Thanks Avtur that is a decent load of fuel. So enough to cover both sectors AKL WRE then WRE WLG plus reserve.


No worries. Surprisingly I did a flight to ROT the other day, and that required 2500kg (the max we can put on a Dash-8, unless we overwing it) I queried that one…! We usually load 1600 for ROT. My guess is that is was going on somewhere else after? I never did find out. Seems to be the same aircraft operating at the moment NEU, NEZ. I haven’t check what it is today. It’s my day off.
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6888
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:45 am

a7ala wrote:
SelandiaBaru wrote:
I would expect so. Can't uplift fuel in WRE and tankering return fuel WLG is load restrictive.


What’s the issue uplifting fuel at WRE? Ironic given it’s the home to Marsden Point.


Can't get gas there. As mentioned the airport doesnt have the equipment to fuel the Q300/ATR. At least that was the case a few years ago.

Does anyone know if the EK380 to CHC is still a go this year?
 
User avatar
SelandiaBaru
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:39 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:27 am

NZ516 wrote:
Thanks Avtur that is a decent load of fuel. So enough to cover both sectors AKL WRE then WRE WLG plus reserve.


That's pretty tight to impossible factoring in a tech/weather alternate.
 
AviatorNZ
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:07 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:28 am

AviatorNZ wrote:
Temporary Whangarei to Wellington service added.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU2109/ ... apital.htm


Second daily flight added now.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8036
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:16 am

AviatorNZ wrote:
AviatorNZ wrote:
Temporary Whangarei to Wellington service added.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU2109/ ... apital.htm


Second daily flight added now.


They added a second daily KKE service to WLG, WRE is a single daily flight.
 
AviatorNZ
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:07 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:19 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
AviatorNZ wrote:
AviatorNZ wrote:
Temporary Whangarei to Wellington service added.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU2109/ ... apital.htm


Second daily flight added now.


They added a second daily KKE service to WLG, WRE is a single daily flight.


Nope, both are twice daily. For WRE, 1225 and 1325 departures, and 1640 and 1740 arrivals.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8036
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:25 am

ZKSUJ wrote:
a7ala wrote:
SelandiaBaru wrote:
I would expect so. Can't uplift fuel in WRE and tankering return fuel WLG is load restrictive.


What’s the issue uplifting fuel at WRE? Ironic given it’s the home to Marsden Point.


Can't get gas there. As mentioned the airport doesnt have the equipment to fuel the Q300/ATR. At least that was the case a few years ago.

Does anyone know if the EK380 to CHC is still a go this year?


EK to CHC latest date is loaded from NS2022 so end of March
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8036
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:32 am

AviatorNZ wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
AviatorNZ wrote:

Second daily flight added now.


They added a second daily KKE service to WLG, WRE is a single daily flight.


Nope, both are twice daily. For WRE, 1225 and 1325 departures, and 1640 and 1740 arrivals.


Ok thank you. Not what that link you posted states. It states additional daily service which I thought meant additional to KKE as it then says

The airline will run a direct daily service between Whangarei and the capital using its Q300 turboprop fleet,
 
AviatorNZ
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:07 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:42 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
AviatorNZ wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

They added a second daily KKE service to WLG, WRE is a single daily flight.


Nope, both are twice daily. For WRE, 1225 and 1325 departures, and 1640 and 1740 arrivals.


Ok thank you. Not what that link you posted states. It states additional daily service which I thought meant additional to KKE as it then says

The airline will run a direct daily service between Whangarei and the capital using its Q300 turboprop fleet,


That article was published yesterday. The second daily flight between WRE and WLG was only added this afternoon.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1978
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:23 am

Some domestic product changes coming shortly. Just light changes to names and rules. Nothing significant but might surprise some..
 
777ER
Head Moderator
Posts: 10143
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:01 pm

This is an aviation website forum and not simply a Covid19 forum.

Just deleted over 30 replies as literally none contained any real discussion on aviation but simply the vaccination performance or ICU capacity/medical team numbers (i work in health care so know full well we have a severe medical staff shortage).

If you wish to discuss Covid19, then there are other websites where you can discuss that.

This is an aviation forum

777ER
Head Forum Moderator
 
NZ321
Posts: 1430
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:14 pm

Thanks 777ER for pulling us back to the topic. :) On that note, what is the likely engine on NZ's next 787 delivery? Is it confirmed GE? Or are there one or two RR options / orders left in the mix? What is in the current pipeline?
 
NZ321
Posts: 1430
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:27 pm

IMO one of the best things NZ could do with domestic - albeit not relevant for most domestic same-day business travellers - is to put a rocket under baggage handling. Have had so many WLG-AKL, AKL-WLG and CHC-AKL flights where it's been 25-30 mins wait for even priority bags / prey tell? By bags are deliberately super stickered and unmissable. Yet such a small terminal. It makes a nonsense of the whole thing. Changi regularly does International flights bags on belt in half the time in a terminal 10-times the size yet Singapore labour is hardly cheap by any standards. Why does it take so long at a small converted cargo shed to get the bags to customer when we pay what we do to fly peak and get premium / lounge access/bags? Tea break? Smoko? Rostering not accounting for delays? Any solid answers to this much appreciated. Something has not added up for a long time. It still doesn't. Love to know the answer.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4308
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:09 pm

NZ6 wrote:
Some domestic product changes coming shortly. Just light changes to names and rules. Nothing significant but might surprise some..


Domestic Business or Prem Eccon, on the a320/321/ would be nice! But that boat long sailed in 2002… the joys of “Express Class” in an post Ansett world.

It would be great on peak hour jet services to have an price option that includes an meal. Eg the 5pm flight to ZQN would be great example of an service that you could pre sell meals.

I’ve seen AirAisa hand out pre-solid meals on KUL-SIN on a321. It’s doable on an short flight, you just need the crew to be very efficient.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1978
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:06 pm

zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Some domestic product changes coming shortly. Just light changes to names and rules. Nothing significant but might surprise some..


Domestic Business or Prem Eccon, on the a320/321/ would be nice! But that boat long sailed in 2002… the joys of “Express Class” in an post Ansett world.

It would be great on peak hour jet services to have an price option that includes an meal. Eg the 5pm flight to ZQN would be great example of an service that you could pre sell meals.

I’ve seen AirAisa hand out pre-solid meals on KUL-SIN on a321. It’s doable on an short flight, you just need the crew to be very efficient.


Do you honestly believe there's a genuine appetite for this?

I mean, you'd likely be ripping out two rows (9 seats), in lieu of 4 seats? You could perhaps get away with removing 1 row but you'd need an engineer look at if a reshuffle could accommodate this. Any business class shouldn't be 3 abreast so you'd be looking at 2&2.

AKLDUD. AKLIVC & AKLZQN are the only flights on any real length in NZ.

This would only really appeal to the business traveler and the rich.

Last time, pre the express era many corporates had a policy not to travel business on domestic. I could also ask what business sectors flew between the above ports as a majority of our "wealthy" industries travel AKL-WLG only.

As for meals: you can easily heat a box meal and serve it within 10 minutes so it's easily doable. But if we're looking at the above profiles... won't they be in the lounge pre flight (Koru/GE/G) and enjoying something much nicer?
 
NZ6
Posts: 1978
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:14 pm

Fair point 777ER but can we please allow some discussion around it as it relates to how and when we open the border which has flow on effects to when airlines return etc.
 
NZ516
Posts: 756
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:18 pm

Going back to aviation matters. Desperate Kiwis needing to travel are now turning to booking charter flights to go over the Tasman. This option won't be suitable for many as the cost is not cheap. On this story it cost a family $40,000 to get on a private charter flight but there is no real other option now.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/452 ... n-aotearoa
 
zkncj
Posts: 4308
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:46 am

This table seems to be floating around this afternoon, not sure how 'offical' it is but does seem like it might have some credit.
Image
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:01 am

zkncj wrote:
This table seems to be floating around this afternoon, not sure how 'offical' it is but does seem like it might have some credit.
Image

What's the difference between "forfeited" and "no refund"? I assume there is one, but I can't think of what that might be.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4308
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:05 am

DavidByrne wrote:
zkncj wrote:
This table seems to be floating around this afternoon, not sure how 'offical' it is but does seem like it might have some credit.
Image

What's the difference between "forfeited" and "no refund"? I assume there is one, but I can't think of what that might be.


Maybe forfeited, could me no airline credit either?

I’m sure they will be wanting to take the opt into credit option away as soon as they can.

I know I’ve used it to credit flights for none Covid related issues, eg just changed my plans because of weather.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:17 am

zkncj wrote:
Maybe forfeited, could me no airline credit either?


That makes sense.
 
777ER
Head Moderator
Posts: 10143
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:27 am

NZ6 wrote:
Fair point 777ER but can we please allow some discussion around it as it relates to how and when we open the border which has flow on effects to when airlines return etc.

I understand your frustration and tried to keep posts, but unfortunately the majority of the deletions were Reference Deletions expanding over numerous replies with several quoted replies not having any aviation discussion.The only way to keep replies discussing border opening and resuming flights was to edit around 90% of the deleted posts and ensuring I was editing the correct parts.

If a discussion happens only discussing border opening with flights/airline discussion then yes that is fine.


Only Head Moderators (NZ1 and myself) can edit a post as we don't like editing/deleting posts
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13635
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:58 am

NZ6 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Don't be too sure about that. We're probably on the cusp of having a serious reduction in spending on new roads (or even a moratorium) because of climate change considerations. And I'll wager anything you like that a secondary airport for Auckland just ain't gonna happen - and even if it did, it would be a redevelopment of Whenuapai or Ardmore for smaller (electric or hydrogen) aircraft. But seriously, once the second runway is built at AKL, and taking into account the serious implications of climate change on aviation, there will never be a need for more capacity. I have my doubts even as to whether the second runway will ever be built, anyway.


Two comments.

We've already committed millions into road safety improvements and in lieu of rail infrastructure a dual lane highway extending from Warkworth to WRE much like the Waikato Expressway will be achievable within climate change obstacles. However the future of North Port will be interesting factor, as rail improvements will be conditional if Ports of Auckland moves up there. None of this will happen for 10-15 years. I think there was early works to extend the new motorway through the Dome Valley and either National or Labour announced plans for a tunnel through the Brynderwyns' but gosh that'll be billions and make the Waterview look like an underpass. Not to forget dangerous goods can't be taken via tunnel...

An airport south of WRE isn't an alternative for AKL as such. However it could be seen as an alternative to those living in Warkworth, Matakana, Snells Beach, Omaha, Wellsford, Mangawhai areas.. which are wealthy and quickly developing areas of north Auckland but within the Auckland boundaries. SHOULD an expressway be built.

However services will be limited and it'll have the same challenges places like PPQ, WHK, WKA face


A tunnel under the Brynderwyns shouldn't be billions, its certainly shouldn't be more expensive than Waterview. Norway is riddled with tunnels, they aren't all that expensive. For example The Atlantic Ocean tunnel 2 lanes, 6km long and 250m deep cost $110m USD, subsea tunnels are a whole lot more difficult than tunnels through a mountain.
 
NZ516
Posts: 756
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:11 pm

A new report has been made that shows the proposed airport at Tarras will be able to take wide body jets with the planned 2.2 km runway!
The airport is expected to be operational by 2029. If consents are granted of course that could face challenges.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industri ... port-finds
 
NZ6
Posts: 1978
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:41 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Don't be too sure about that. We're probably on the cusp of having a serious reduction in spending on new roads (or even a moratorium) because of climate change considerations. And I'll wager anything you like that a secondary airport for Auckland just ain't gonna happen - and even if it did, it would be a redevelopment of Whenuapai or Ardmore for smaller (electric or hydrogen) aircraft. But seriously, once the second runway is built at AKL, and taking into account the serious implications of climate change on aviation, there will never be a need for more capacity. I have my doubts even as to whether the second runway will ever be built, anyway.


Two comments.

We've already committed millions into road safety improvements and in lieu of rail infrastructure a dual lane highway extending from Warkworth to WRE much like the Waikato Expressway will be achievable within climate change obstacles. However the future of North Port will be interesting factor, as rail improvements will be conditional if Ports of Auckland moves up there. None of this will happen for 10-15 years. I think there was early works to extend the new motorway through the Dome Valley and either National or Labour announced plans for a tunnel through the Brynderwyns' but gosh that'll be billions and make the Waterview look like an underpass. Not to forget dangerous goods can't be taken via tunnel...

An airport south of WRE isn't an alternative for AKL as such. However it could be seen as an alternative to those living in Warkworth, Matakana, Snells Beach, Omaha, Wellsford, Mangawhai areas.. which are wealthy and quickly developing areas of north Auckland but within the Auckland boundaries. SHOULD an expressway be built.

However services will be limited and it'll have the same challenges places like PPQ, WHK, WKA face


A tunnel under the Brynderwyns shouldn't be billions, its certainly shouldn't be more expensive than Waterview. Norway is riddled with tunnels, they aren't all that expensive. For example The Atlantic Ocean tunnel 2 lanes, 6km long and 250m deep cost $110m USD, subsea tunnels are a whole lot more difficult than tunnels through a mountain.


Yeah, it really depends how they do it where they do it etc. Does it include a rail lines etc etc etc so many unknowns. - given dangerous goods will unlikely be unable to use it it will still need to be accessible to the current road over the top, that may change the cost to benefit ratio. I guess there's so many unknowns but if a expressway was built from Warkworth to WRE it would make the trip north far quicker and could make a new airport at the southern side of WRE more attractive.

It's a long long way off though.

In a perfect world, WRE and Northland could really excel. If we built North Port & moved some/all the Navy up there and a new WRE airport with RNZAF base nearby...

I don't expect any of this to happen in my lifetime. if at all.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4308
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:44 pm

NZ516 wrote:
A new report has been made that shows the proposed airport at Tarras will be able to take wide body jets with the planned 2.2 km runway!
The airport is expected to be operational by 2029. If consents are granted of course that could face challenges.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industri ... port-finds


The biggest issue with Tarras is going to be transport to/from airport, its in the middle of no where and about an hours drive to Queenstown.
 
SFwatchTower
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:02 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:48 pm

Any details about the NZ6xxx flights from AKL to SFO? There was one last week which then returned as NZ1947 SFO-CHC. There is an NZ6016 AKL-SFO en route at the time of writing.

Is there just not enough SFO cargo demand for NZ1007/1008 to fly consistently 3x a week?

I hope for a more normalized passenger air travel between US and NZ. The ANZ flights are ones I like to keep an eye on up here in SF.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1978
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:56 pm

NZ516 wrote:
A new report has been made that shows the proposed airport at Tarras will be able to take wide body jets with the planned 2.2 km runway!
The airport is expected to be operational by 2029. If consents are granted of course that could face challenges.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industri ... port-finds


It'll face a lot of objection, it'll end up in court and I think and we'll see appeals to any outcomes as well.

I completely understand locals not wanting it 'in their backyard' and why would you. They're currently live in paradise and that's going to change on them forever.

I'm not sure how you solve that of if you can.

I do hope something can be achieved and I'd personally like to see WKA restricted from future development, they elected not to expand so you can't have it both ways and I'd like both WKA & ZQN to be limited to aircraft under 10 passengers and charter services only (example)

I know reducing ZQN won't happen and there's massive benefits in ZQN from the passenger perspective but the increase in noise pollution over the last 20 years in the Wakatipu basin is actually really sad. That's coming from an avid aviation geek who loves plane spotting.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4308
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:11 pm

NZ6 wrote:

I do hope something can be achieved and I'd personally like to see WKA restricted from future development, they elected not to expand so you can't have it both ways and I'd like both WKA & ZQN to be limited to aircraft under 10 passengers and charter services only (example)

I know reducing ZQN won't happen and there's massive benefits in ZQN from the passenger perspective but the increase in noise pollution over the last 20 years in the Wakatipu basin is actually really sad. That's coming from an avid aviation geek who loves plane spotting.


ZQN going to be an hard one to fix at moment 10-15minutes from the airport and your Hotel in Queenstown, move all the jet traffic to Taras your not 60-75minutes drive away from your Hotel. If Jet services are removed from ZQN I wonder how much of an impact that would have on Queenstown being an base town e.g. would we see Wanaka start to grow being closer to Taras.

Yet to be see what the environmental impacts Airbus new hybrid range, will have and how much noise they will put out. NZ has now signalled they interested in these new hybrid jets/props from Airbus.
So could be that ZQN got limited to new generational aircraft.
 
User avatar
Avtur
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:01 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:38 pm

SFwatchTower wrote:
Any details about the NZ6xxx flights from AKL to SFO? There was one last week which then returned as NZ1947 SFO-CHC. There is an NZ6016 AKL-SFO en route at the time of writing.

Is there just not enough SFO cargo demand for NZ1007/1008 to fly consistently 3x a week?

I hope for a more normalized passenger air travel between US and NZ. The ANZ flights are ones I like to keep an eye on up here in SF.


The NZ6xxx flights you are talking about are charters. These particular two (one went out last night) are departing AKL, spending one night in SFO (crew rest) and returning to CHC with scientists onboard, who will then spend six months on the ice in Antarctica.
 
SFwatchTower
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:02 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:10 pm

Avtur wrote:
SFwatchTower wrote:
Any details about the NZ6xxx flights from AKL to SFO? There was one last week which then returned as NZ1947 SFO-CHC. There is an NZ6016 AKL-SFO en route at the time of writing.

Is there just not enough SFO cargo demand for NZ1007/1008 to fly consistently 3x a week?

I hope for a more normalized passenger air travel between US and NZ. The ANZ flights are ones I like to keep an eye on up here in SF.


The NZ6xxx flights you are talking about are charters. These particular two (one went out last night) are departing AKL, spending one night in SFO (crew rest) and returning to CHC with scientists onboard, who will then spend six months on the ice in Antarctica.

Wow!

Avtur, thank you for the tip!
 
NZ6
Posts: 1978
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:22 am

zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

I do hope something can be achieved and I'd personally like to see WKA restricted from future development, they elected not to expand so you can't have it both ways and I'd like both WKA & ZQN to be limited to aircraft under 10 passengers and charter services only (example)

I know reducing ZQN won't happen and there's massive benefits in ZQN from the passenger perspective but the increase in noise pollution over the last 20 years in the Wakatipu basin is actually really sad. That's coming from an avid aviation geek who loves plane spotting.


ZQN going to be an hard one to fix at moment 10-15minutes from the airport and your Hotel in Queenstown, move all the jet traffic to Taras your not 60-75minutes drive away from your Hotel. If Jet services are removed from ZQN I wonder how much of an impact that would have on Queenstown being an base town e.g. would we see Wanaka start to grow being closer to Taras.

Yet to be see what the environmental impacts Airbus new hybrid range, will have and how much noise they will put out. NZ has now signalled they interested in these new hybrid jets/props from Airbus.
So could be that ZQN got limited to new generational aircraft.


Of course, that's what I meant when I mentioned the passenger benefits and I don't believe this will happen anyway.

I'd just like to hope that if the airport at Tarras was built suitable infrastructure would be built to support it. Then we could start by moving all international flights over to Tarras, followed up flights outside of a very strict curfew. i.e no Jet flights outside of 1000-1600...
 
Toenga
Posts: 273
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:55 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:30 am

With Tarras available, no jets into Queenstown and a curfew would would make getting to Queenstown more difficult, but being there a lot more pleasant. With Tarras being relitively close to Wanaka it would balance the demand between the two centres more.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1978
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - September 2021

Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:47 am

Toenga wrote:
With Tarras available, no jets into Queenstown and a curfew would would make getting to Queenstown more difficult, but being there a lot more pleasant. With Tarras being relitively close to Wanaka it would balance the demand between the two centres more.



More difficult in what way? Longer transfer?

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos