Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
CraigAnderson wrote:tullamarine wrote:I would agree that QF see it as a longer term solution. The A332 is probably right-sized for BNE-LAX and is less premium heavy which means there are still seats for business travel but not so many as to make the economics of the flight unviable.
Are there any other routes apart from BNE to LAX & SFO where a '332LR' might be useful for Qantas, assuming a 787 takes over those routes as the new 787s arrive and the A380s come back?
tullamarine wrote:qf789 wrote:CraigAnderson wrote:[quote="tullamarine"I would agree that QF see it as a longer term solution. The A332 is probably right-sized for BNE-LAX and is less premium heavy which means there are still seats for business travel but not so many as to make the economics of the flight unviable.
Are there any other routes apart from BNE to LAX & SFO where a '332LR' might be useful for Qantas, assuming a 787 takes over those routes as the new 787s arrive and the A380s come back?
I would say these aircraft would be attractive on QF returning to India
The A332 can already do flights to India. India is a hard market given there is no obvious single destination. Delhi, Mumbai and Kolkata are all possible but domestic travel in India is chaotic so connections are not attractive. That is why the old SIN scissor hub with 9W was so goid but QF has been unable to find an equivalent partner since Jet’s demise.
CraigAnderson wrote:[quote="tullamarine"I would agree that QF see it as a longer term solution. The A332 is probably right-sized for BNE-LAX and is less premium heavy which means there are still seats for business travel but not so many as to make the economics of the flight unviable.
A350OZ wrote:While we’re talking BNE and A330s, I just noticed BNE-ROK QF1303 was operated by an A332 (EBL) tonight. This is rather unusual, would normally be a 717 or 738, wouldn’t it? Is is an ADF related charter maybe?
myki wrote:tullamarine wrote:qf789 wrote:
I would say these aircraft would be attractive on QF returning to India
The A332 can already do flights to India. India is a hard market given there is no obvious single destination. Delhi, Mumbai and Kolkata are all possible but domestic travel in India is chaotic so connections are not attractive. That is why the old SIN scissor hub with 9W was so goid but QF has been unable to find an equivalent partner since Jet’s demise.
Fly in to KUL and let oneworld partner MH take over from there?
SCFlyer wrote:SYD-BOM or DEL I'd suspect. Has the the two class balance of a small J cabin and high Y cabin, with QF potentially be able to make a premium of the higher paying Y passengers not willing to go either LCC or Air India.
Fly in to KUL and let oneworld partner MH take over from there?
CraigAnderson wrote:Are there any other routes apart from BNE to LAX & SFO where a '332LR' might be useful for Qantas, assuming a 787 takes over those routes as the new 787s arrive and the A380s come back?
myki wrote:tullamarine wrote:qf789 wrote:
I would say these aircraft would be attractive on QF returning to India
The A332 can already do flights to India. India is a hard market given there is no obvious single destination. Delhi, Mumbai and Kolkata are all possible but domestic travel in India is chaotic so connections are not attractive. That is why the old SIN scissor hub with 9W was so goid but QF has been unable to find an equivalent partner since Jet’s demise.
Fly in to KUL and let oneworld partner MH take over from there?
smi0006 wrote:Does QF have any 789 sitting ready waiting to be delivered with Boeing? How soon could they take these orders up?
RyanairGuru wrote:CraigAnderson wrote:Are there any other routes apart from BNE to LAX & SFO where a '332LR' might be useful for Qantas, assuming a 787 takes over those routes as the new 787s arrive and the A380s come back?
SYD-SCL seems like an obvious choice to me. Increase frequency with a smaller, less premium heavy aircraft.
tullamarine wrote:smi0006 wrote:Does QF have any 789 sitting ready waiting to be delivered with Boeing? How soon could they take these orders up?
There are 3 completed planes in the US desert One is only partially painted obviously awaiting for a special livery.
Queenslander wrote:Other then the FMS upgrades, apparently there is approximately 5 rows of economy seating at the rear corner to remove. This is where the crew rest bunks will be put.
Any weight increases will pay off in the long run as these 330s will eventually be destined for freighter conversion with QF freight.
anstar wrote:Queenslander wrote:Other then the FMS upgrades, apparently there is approximately 5 rows of economy seating at the rear corner to remove. This is where the crew rest bunks will be put.
Any weight increases will pay off in the long run as these 330s will eventually be destined for freighter conversion with QF freight.
I'd be surprised if they put in bunks for cabin crew and not flight crew.
moa999 wrote:Can't see QF doing KUL by itself.
Too close and without the premium traffic of SIN.
And you don't have 3K Jetstar Asia.
Plus Aus-KUL has been super low yield for years with D7 Air AsiaX feeding into the big AirAsia hub
3K tried Bangalore and Kolkata some years ago (2005-2007) but didn't last long.
SCFlyer wrote:Can the A321LR in JQ config make SYD-KUL?
JQ previously tried SYD-KUL in the A330 and they got hammered by D7 purely due to their larger hub in KUL.
ZK-NBT wrote:RyanairGuru wrote:CraigAnderson wrote:Are there any other routes apart from BNE to LAX & SFO where a '332LR' might be useful for Qantas, assuming a 787 takes over those routes as the new 787s arrive and the A380s come back?
SYD-SCL seems like an obvious choice to me. Increase frequency with a smaller, less premium heavy aircraft.
SCL was planned to be daily with a 789 pre covid. How much freight is on that route and would the A332 be ETOPS compliant? You really are no where on that route. Having said that there was a plan for PER-JNB on an A332 though SA already flew the same aircraft there and it is much shorter. I’m not sure how far north SCL could go before it is unviable?
RyanairGuru wrote:ZK-NBT wrote:RyanairGuru wrote:
SYD-SCL seems like an obvious choice to me. Increase frequency with a smaller, less premium heavy aircraft.
SCL was planned to be daily with a 789 pre covid. How much freight is on that route and would the A332 be ETOPS compliant? You really are no where on that route. Having said that there was a plan for PER-JNB on an A332 though SA already flew the same aircraft there and it is much shorter. I’m not sure how far north SCL could go before it is unviable?
BNE was also planned to be daily 789 pre Covid, but the reality is that things will be different for the next few years.
I’ll defer to someone with greater technical expertise, but I can’t see any reason why Qantas couldn’t theoretically receive the same EDTO certification for the A332 as the 789. Both are twins, with slim diversion options over the South Pacific, but CASA has shown greater flexibility about EDTO >180 over recent years.
EDTO aside, SYD-SCL is shorter than BNE-LAX/SFO
ZK-NBT wrote:RyanairGuru wrote:ZK-NBT wrote:
SCL was planned to be daily with a 789 pre covid. How much freight is on that route and would the A332 be ETOPS compliant? You really are no where on that route. Having said that there was a plan for PER-JNB on an A332 though SA already flew the same aircraft there and it is much shorter. I’m not sure how far north SCL could go before it is unviable?
BNE was also planned to be daily 789 pre Covid, but the reality is that things will be different for the next few years.
I’ll defer to someone with greater technical expertise, but I can’t see any reason why Qantas couldn’t theoretically receive the same EDTO certification for the A332 as the 789. Both are twins, with slim diversion options over the South Pacific, but CASA has shown greater flexibility about EDTO >180 over recent years.
EDTO aside, SYD-SCL is shorter than BNE-LAX/SFO
I am not technical either. How about diversion points on The SYD-SCL sector, blocked at 12.30 for the 789 so let’s say closer to 13hrs for the 332. While on the return the 789 is 14:20 so closer to 14:45 on the A332, CHC could be a viable alternate? It’s getting a long flight.
qf789 wrote:Hawaiian planning on returning to SYD and BNE from 15 Dec 21
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ecember-15
Flyingsottsman wrote:qf789 wrote:Hawaiian planning on returning to SYD and BNE from 15 Dec 21
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ecember-15
Oh how I wish they could put Melbourne in their plans to.
dredgy wrote:It's all theoretical at this stage. No way those flights go ahead in December, and when travel resumes I would suspect it to be bubble-based. And I'm not expecting the US to be in the initial bubble. Though I'm just guessing of course. The sooner I can get a Hawaiian getaway the better, though I am hoping there might be some more unique routes offered in the South Pacific as things start to open up to islands that haven't traditionally been tourism staples.
melpax wrote:
Quarantine requirements on return is the other Elephant in the room.
If fully-vaccinated people are allowed to quarantine at home, or have a shortened quarantine as has been rumoured, there will be more demand for outbound travel than if the 2-week managed quarantine is still a requirement for all inbound travellers.
Will be interesting to see how they start to open things back up
Velocity7 wrote:Agree but I think there are two elephants - travel insurance is the other
CraigAnderson wrote:Qantas says it will launch international flights from Sydney and Melbourne once NSW and Victoria open up upon hitting the 80% vaccination threshold, even if Brisbane and Perth keep their borders locked, and the latter definitely appears to be the case based on comments by WA Premier McGowan on the weekend, who said people from New South Wales would not be allowed into WA for Christmas even if they were fully vaccinated!
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... as-flights
dredgy wrote:Flyingsottsman wrote:qf789 wrote:Hawaiian planning on returning to SYD and BNE from 15 Dec 21
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ecember-15
Oh how I wish they could put Melbourne in their plans to.
It's all theoretical at this stage. No way those flights go ahead in December, and when travel resumes I would suspect it to be bubble-based. And I'm not expecting the US to be in the initial bubble. Though I'm just guessing of course. The sooner I can get a Hawaiian getaway the better, though I am hoping there might be some more unique routes offered in the South Pacific as things start to open up to islands that haven't traditionally been tourism staples.
CraigAnderson wrote:So if SA,TAS and NT all open to NSW and VIC at 80% that could mean that WA and possibly QLD are closed to all states except maybe each other.Qantas says it will launch international flights from Sydney and Melbourne once NSW and Victoria open up upon hitting the 80% vaccination threshold, even if Brisbane and Perth keep their borders locked, and the latter definitely appears to be the case based on comments by WA Premier McGowan on the weekend, who said people from New South Wales would not be allowed into WA for Christmas even if they were fully vaccinated!
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... as-flights
brissypete wrote:CraigAnderson wrote:So if SA,TAS and NT all open to NSW and VIC at 80% that could mean that WA and possibly QLD are closed to all states except maybe each other.Qantas says it will launch international flights from Sydney and Melbourne once NSW and Victoria open up upon hitting the 80% vaccination threshold, even if Brisbane and Perth keep their borders locked, and the latter definitely appears to be the case based on comments by WA Premier McGowan on the weekend, who said people from New South Wales would not be allowed into WA for Christmas even if they were fully vaccinated!
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... as-flights
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tullamarine wrote:brissypete wrote:CraigAnderson wrote:I'd be interested to hear what residents of these Covid-Zero states think about a situation where Vic and NSW residents will be able to visit SIN, LHR or LAX but won't come to their states and these states' residents have lots of traditional freedoms but cannot leave their state. It is a really unique situation and I'd love to know what the feeling on the ground is.
State governments don't control international borders, and even if they might try to claim otherwise they would not have the capacity / resources to force all arrivals into hotel quarantine independent of federal policy should international borders partially re-open as per the 3rd phase of the 4 phase plan. A lot of the speculation / talk is based on the incorrect assumption that state governments have the power to keep international borders closed, which is false. This isn't to say that the feds won't use the partial re-opening of international borders as a way to influence states to re-open earlier than they are anticipating - I suspect if we have a situation where double vaxxed people from QLD and WA can return from overseas but not from NSW/VIC that this will be a major factor in a change of state border policy.
As for QFs blustering about not flying out of QLD or WA based on state border restrictions, it makes business sense for QF to push this the way it's doing because there's every chance that exceptions could be made for crew, or in general to influence state premiers about changes on policy based on the threat of permanently losing services. It's also important to note in relation to potentially switching PER-LHR to DRW-LHR that NT's border policy is more in line with QLD and WA, they have not promised they'll re-open at 80% double-vaxxed either.
tullamarine wrote:You're right that the states don't control the border but if a state demands arriving pax have to go into 14 days hotel quarantine then QF will avoid it as there just isn't enough capacity in hotel quarantine to operate services with economic loads.
Foopz wrote:All valid points, although hotel quarantine has been managed by the states we have not yet had a situation where this has been completely independent of federal involvement (e.g. no travel ban or arrival caps in place for vaccinated citizens) and I just remain skeptical that with the travel ban and arrival caps potentially removed at Phase 3 that we would have a situation where individual states decide to continue hotel quarantine on arrival for passengers which aren't federally required to complete it.
Which essentially brings things back to my main POV as someone residing in one of those states, which is that it's too early to get a read on where things might go in December, and I think the feeling on the ground is similar. There's prior precedent with both QLD and WA that the state governments rely on underpromising / overdelivering when it comes to the issue of easing restrictions on state border policy (see last year where WA budget estimates said that the hard border with all states and territories would remain until April 2021, only for it to be scrapped/adjusted to a controlled border from November 2020).
tullamarine wrote:It is a really unique situation and I'd love to know what the feeling on the ground is.
Velocity7 wrote:there are sadly a lot of Queenslanders who feel that continuing to live in a bubble
Velocity7 wrote:tullamarine wrote:It is a really unique situation and I'd love to know what the feeling on the ground is.
I think the QLD Premier blows with the general sentiment of the electorate and in this case, there are sadly a lot of Queenslanders who feel that continuing to live in a bubble has little impact on them personally and the perception that COVID zero will keep them 100% safe so are supportive of the government stance. The fact it is not sustainable has no bearing - again, no personal impact for many. The local media doesn't help either - the choice of words to describe the current situation in NSW firmly appeals to that sentiment as does the rhetoric on the 6pm news over one or two local cases.
I am hoping that that sentiment changes and the moment it does, watch the QLD Premier change her position in a nano second. I think it is slowly changing in the SE of the state but anything north of Noosa and its a whole different ball game! I best stop, the mods will think this discussion is straying off topic
I think Queenslanders that want to travel are doing so quite easily throughout the entire state, sans the occasional snap lockdowns. Again, little impact. The pricing of some of the accommodation from Cairns to Coolangatta is crazy which has to be being driven by local state demand - it can't be anything else with NSW/VIC locked out and no international tourism. By way of example, this coming Friday there are 15 x direct flights from BNE-CNS alone across VA, QF and JQ - Queenslanders are travelling, they are just staying within the state!
Prime Minister Scott Morrison has foreshadowed a reopening of borders when vaccination rates hit 80 per cent but the hopes of scores of Australians trying to get home before Christmas have been shattered by a slew of new flight cancellations over the next three months.
Singapore Airlines delivered the bad news to passengers on Monday night as a fresh round of international flights in October to December were called off.
CraigAnderson wrote:Far from unexpected, international flights still being cancelled due to the caps on arriving passengers. It's not as if the borders have opened and there's an AU-SIN bubble in place already, I feel for anybody eager to get home to Australia but really nothing has changed over the last few months so what's the big deal?
‘Devastating’: Dozens of new flight cancellations leave Australians strandedPrime Minister Scott Morrison has foreshadowed a reopening of borders when vaccination rates hit 80 per cent but the hopes of scores of Australians trying to get home before Christmas have been shattered by a slew of new flight cancellations over the next three months.
Singapore Airlines delivered the bad news to passengers on Monday night as a fresh round of international flights in October to December were called off.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/devas ... 58rg9.html