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Spacepope
Posts: 5461
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Eastern Airlines launches Eastern Air Cargo

Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:32 pm

flightsimer wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
[Eastern has secured the acquisition of 35 B777 aircraft as feedstock

could mean as little as obtained an option to buy.

That's a long way from funding the purchase and funding the cargo coversions, let alone actually having the customers under contract to justify flying 35 freight 777s.


Ten-thousand-percent correct. It may not be stupid from a leasing company perspective to take options on retired 777s for conversion, because I think the Big Twin is going to be a huge success. However, the idea that a bulk-loaded 777 makes any sense is hilarious.

Lots of airlines are using bulk loading right now because of the cargo demand.

The other thing people are ignoring is it’s quite possible these flights could be profitable on the lower cargo holds alone. Down there they can carry heavier containerized products.


Maybe they can make some profit bulk loading all the popcorn I think I need while watching this goatrope unfold.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5693
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Eastern Airlines launches Eastern Air Cargo

Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:19 pm

Spacepope wrote:
flightsimer wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

Ten-thousand-percent correct. It may not be stupid from a leasing company perspective to take options on retired 777s for conversion, because I think the Big Twin is going to be a huge success. However, the idea that a bulk-loaded 777 makes any sense is hilarious.

Lots of airlines are using bulk loading right now because of the cargo demand.

The other thing people are ignoring is it’s quite possible these flights could be profitable on the lower cargo holds alone. Down there they can carry heavier containerized products.


Maybe they can make some profit bulk loading all the popcorn I think I need while watching this goatrope unfold.

They’ll just cancel before it starts like they do with everything they announce
 
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DL_Mech
Posts: 2710
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 7:48 am

Re: Eastern Airlines launches Eastern Air Cargo

Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:08 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
From my heavy mtc experience it actually does happen overnight. The cabin would not be ready for cargo, but a motivated crew can strip the cabin of seats and galleys in just a couple of shifts. It's not fun, but can be done.


Back in the day, that motivated crew was offered a “Do and Go.” Get the job done in six hours, get paid for eight.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2684
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Eastern Airlines launches Eastern Air Cargo

Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:12 am

DL_Mech wrote:
Dalmd88 wrote:
From my heavy mtc experience it actually does happen overnight. The cabin would not be ready for cargo, but a motivated crew can strip the cabin of seats and galleys in just a couple of shifts. It's not fun, but can be done.


Back in the day, that motivated crew was offered a “Do and Go.” Get the job done in six hours, get paid for eight.

I’d love to see them remove seats, galleys and lavs and do necessary mods for interior cabin cargo in 6 hours.

Impossible on a 777.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2449
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Eastern Airlines launches Eastern Air Cargo

Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:17 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
DL_Mech wrote:
Dalmd88 wrote:
From my heavy mtc experience it actually does happen overnight. The cabin would not be ready for cargo, but a motivated crew can strip the cabin of seats and galleys in just a couple of shifts. It's not fun, but can be done.


Back in the day, that motivated crew was offered a “Do and Go.” Get the job done in six hours, get paid for eight.

I’d love to see them remove seats, galleys and lavs and do necessary mods for interior cabin cargo in 6 hours.

Impossible on a 777.

Do you understand that this Eastern cargo mod is not your typical mod (i.e., strip the inside fully, reinforce/replace the floor beams, cut a big cargo door, etc) so you can transport heavy and/or container-loaded cargo, but rather a "slightly-more-permanent" solution than we've seen at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic (i.e., remove the seats, galley and lav) so you can carry light density bulk-loaded cargo?

You started with "no way can seats, galleys and lav be removed overnight" to now adding "do necessarily cargo mods" after being told the former is doable... Stop moving the goal posts.
Again, this cargo mod is atypical; you cannot compare it with what was done in the past.

As far as removing cabin interior in a certain time: Airbus installs a full A321 in about 8 hours (3 per day), and in about 24 hours for the AA A321T. A 777 is bigger, more to remove, but it won't take weeks (by the way, no one restricted that mod to "overnight" but you, not sure why you did that).
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15866
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: Eastern Airlines launches Eastern Air Cargo

Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:17 pm

It’s like they’ve taken the “Hold my beer,” approach to making a mockery of a storied airline brand like that railroad did with the Pan Am name.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2684
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Eastern Airlines launches Eastern Air Cargo

Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:26 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
DL_Mech wrote:

Back in the day, that motivated crew was offered a “Do and Go.” Get the job done in six hours, get paid for eight.

I’d love to see them remove seats, galleys and lavs and do necessary mods for interior cabin cargo in 6 hours.

Impossible on a 777.

Do you understand that this Eastern cargo mod is not your typical mod (i.e., strip the inside fully, reinforce/replace the floor beams, cut a big cargo door, etc) so you can transport heavy and/or container-loaded cargo, but rather a "slightly-more-permanent" solution than we've seen at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic (i.e., remove the seats, galley and lav) so you can carry light density bulk-loaded cargo?

You started with "no way can seats, galleys and lav be removed overnight" to now adding "do necessarily cargo mods" after being told the former is doable... Stop moving the goal posts.
Again, this cargo mod is atypical; you cannot compare it with what was done in the past.

As far as removing cabin interior in a certain time: Airbus installs a full A321 in about 8 hours (3 per day), and in about 24 hours for the AA A321T. A 777 is bigger, more to remove, but it won't take weeks (by the way, no one restricted that mod to "overnight" but you, not sure why you did that).

Installing an interior on a fresh built airplane is NOTHING like removing all seats, galleys and lavs. Per Eastern thats what they said they are doing.

I said nothing about them making it a true P2F. Ive worked in heavy maintenance, no way can you remove all that, cap off lines, wiring etc.

Have you ever done that? We have when we modified the 10 757s from EA, the whole interior was removed, it didn’t take 8-24 hours and a 777 is a little bit bigger.

Take the time to read what I posted.

“No way can seats, galleys and lavs removed overnight”.

Funny I don’t see where I said making it a P2F.

Maybe you shouldn’t put things in my post that I didn’t state.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2449
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Eastern Airlines launches Eastern Air Cargo

Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:37 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
I’d love to see them remove seats, galleys and lavs and do necessary mods for interior cabin cargo in 6 hours.

Impossible on a 777.

Do you understand that this Eastern cargo mod is not your typical mod (i.e., strip the inside fully, reinforce/replace the floor beams, cut a big cargo door, etc) so you can transport heavy and/or container-loaded cargo, but rather a "slightly-more-permanent" solution than we've seen at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic (i.e., remove the seats, galley and lav) so you can carry light density bulk-loaded cargo?

You started with "no way can seats, galleys and lav be removed overnight" to now adding "do necessarily cargo mods" after being told the former is doable... Stop moving the goal posts.
Again, this cargo mod is atypical; you cannot compare it with what was done in the past.

As far as removing cabin interior in a certain time: Airbus installs a full A321 in about 8 hours (3 per day), and in about 24 hours for the AA A321T. A 777 is bigger, more to remove, but it won't take weeks (by the way, no one restricted that mod to "overnight" but you, not sure why you did that).

Installing an interior on a fresh built airplane is NOTHING like removing all seats, galleys and lavs. Per Eastern thats what they said they are doing.

I said nothing about them making it a true P2F. Ive worked in heavy maintenance, no way can you remove all that, cap off lines, wiring etc.

Have you ever done that? We have when we modified the 10 757s from EA, the whole interior was removed, it didn’t take 8-24 hours and a 777 is a little bit bigger.

Take the time to read what I posted.

“No way can seats, galleys and lavs removed overnight”.

Funny I don’t see where I said making it a P2F.

Maybe you shouldn’t put things in my post that I didn’t state.

But then again, why would you want this mod to be done "overnight"? You were the one to instill that restriction. The planes won't go back-and-forth between bulk cargo and passenger; so, even if it take a week or two, what's the big deal if it's planned accordingly?
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2684
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Eastern Airlines launches Eastern Air Cargo

Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:24 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Do you understand that this Eastern cargo mod is not your typical mod (i.e., strip the inside fully, reinforce/replace the floor beams, cut a big cargo door, etc) so you can transport heavy and/or container-loaded cargo, but rather a "slightly-more-permanent" solution than we've seen at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic (i.e., remove the seats, galley and lav) so you can carry light density bulk-loaded cargo?

You started with "no way can seats, galleys and lav be removed overnight" to now adding "do necessarily cargo mods" after being told the former is doable... Stop moving the goal posts.
Again, this cargo mod is atypical; you cannot compare it with what was done in the past.

As far as removing cabin interior in a certain time: Airbus installs a full A321 in about 8 hours (3 per day), and in about 24 hours for the AA A321T. A 777 is bigger, more to remove, but it won't take weeks (by the way, no one restricted that mod to "overnight" but you, not sure why you did that).

Installing an interior on a fresh built airplane is NOTHING like removing all seats, galleys and lavs. Per Eastern thats what they said they are doing.

I said nothing about them making it a true P2F. Ive worked in heavy maintenance, no way can you remove all that, cap off lines, wiring etc.

Have you ever done that? We have when we modified the 10 757s from EA, the whole interior was removed, it didn’t take 8-24 hours and a 777 is a little bit bigger.

Take the time to read what I posted.

“No way can seats, galleys and lavs removed overnight”.

Funny I don’t see where I said making it a P2F.

Maybe you shouldn’t put things in my post that I didn’t state.

But then again, why would you want this mod to be done "overnight"? You were the one to instill that restriction. The planes won't go back-and-forth between bulk cargo and passenger; so, even if it take a week or two, what's the big deal if it's planned accordingly?

Follow the thread and you will see what I was responding too.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10787
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Eastern Airlines launches Eastern Air Cargo

Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:37 pm

Fairly-comprehensive and rational Loadstar article about this goatrope this morning in the Loadstar: https://theloadstar.com/eastern-airline ... nversions/

They cover a lot of what we have been discussing. IMHO, it's a completely-speculative play. And they acknowledge that pax door loading is banned in several busy hubs at the moment.

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