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edealinfo
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Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:25 pm

Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 PASSENGER jets except 777X? If not, which 777 passenger jets does it still manufacture? I ran a serach online and couldn't find the answer.

Thank you.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:31 pm

I’m seeing on air fleets the last 777 delivered had its first flight delivered 07/09 this year to Aerológic. Then a few to fedex in may.

Production ain’t what it used to be. At least I assume so.

Oh sorr you mean passenger.

Last one was for Turkmenistan, EZ-A780. A 77L, earlier this year.

Weird I thought only 77Ws and 77Fs were in production. I guess if it’s got GE90 it’s going.

https://www.airfleets.net/listing/b777-1-lndesc.htm
 
B6JFKH81
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:40 pm

There still seems to be activity based on the production thread:

viewtopic.php?t=1455933
 
jbs2886
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:43 pm

Correct. Only 777Fs and 777Xs.
 
cedarjet
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:45 pm

CarlosSi wrote:
Last one was for Turkmenistan, EZ-A780. A 77L, earlier this year.

Weird I thought only 77Ws and 77Fs were in production. I guess if it’s got GE90 it’s going.

777F is a 777-200LR/F so the Turkmenistan example would not prove to be an issue.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:46 pm

Boeing stopped taking orders for the 77L and 77W some time ago, only offering the 77X. However, production still has a few passenger planes and also the 77F to be built. I didn't look deep in the 777 production thread but I recall there are a dozen or so pre 77X still to be produced.
 
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Polot
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:04 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
Boeing stopped taking orders for the 77L and 77W some time ago, only offering the 77X. However, production still has a few passenger planes and also the 77F to be built. I didn't look deep in the 777 production thread but I recall there are a dozen or so pre 77X still to be produced.

777W production is believed to be finished. All existing pending orders (Aeroflot and BOC/Thai) are planes already built but not yet delivered or dead orders (PIA). There are no pending 77L orders.
 
LDRA
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:08 pm

Is Boeing extending 77F production? It should sell given current environment. Boeing needs it too, considering 787 and 777X programs' status
 
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Polot
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:40 pm

LDRA wrote:
Is Boeing extending 77F production? It should sell given current environment. Boeing needs it too, considering 787 and 777X programs' status

The 77F is still for sale and production ongoing. The intention was always to sell it along side the 777X until a 777XF was ready.
 
sxf24
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:28 pm

There are 77Ws waiting to deliver to Aeroflot. Seems like Boeing will still build them if customers want it.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:00 pm

sxf24 wrote:
There are 77Ws waiting to deliver to Aeroflot. Seems like Boeing will still build them if customers want it.

AFAIK the 77F is *merely* (in layman's terms) a shrink of the 77W. They should be able to be built from the same line.
 
DartHerald
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:13 pm

I thought that Aeroflot were moving to an all-Airbus fleet - if that is the case it doesn't look like they will ever take up the undelivered 777Ws.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:07 pm

DartHerald wrote:
I thought that Aeroflot were moving to an all-Airbus fleet - if that is the case it doesn't look like they will ever take up the undelivered 777Ws.


The 737 fleet has an average age of 5.4 years and the 777 fleet 6.2, they might not take the 77Ws due to COVID but why would they be phasing out the fleet otherwise with new ones still being delivered?
 
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Polot
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:25 pm

DartHerald wrote:
I thought that Aeroflot were moving to an all-Airbus fleet - if that is the case it doesn't look like they will ever take up the undelivered 777Ws.

The plane was to move the 77Ws to another subsidiary (Rossiya I think), not to completely eliminate the fairly new fleet. Aeroflot just recently placed a 77W into service that was delivered back in February and stored at HKG, and the undelivered 777s have had recent activity suggesting that SU may be gearing up to take them soon. Since Aeroflot’s last 777 order was for late end of line planes to bridge 777 production it is unlikely they have favorable cancellation clauses in their contract.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:25 pm

cedarjet wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
Last one was for Turkmenistan, EZ-A780. A 77L, earlier this year.

Weird I thought only 77Ws and 77Fs were in production. I guess if it’s got GE90 it’s going.

777F is a 777-200LR/F so the Turkmenistan example would not prove to be an issue.


Hmm I see. I thought they finished any 777-200s (LR or not) for the PAX. I do see windows on it and it’s some sort of “KLR” variant whatever that means so it’s not a sole freighter unless they’re going to plug them eventually or it’s a windowed freighter. I digress, must not be like the 767 which has no PAX line going at all.
 
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zeke
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:57 pm

Polot wrote:
The intention was always to sell it along side the 777X until a 777XF was ready.


Where has Boeing said that ?
 
sxf24
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:07 am

DartHerald wrote:
I thought that Aeroflot were moving to an all-Airbus fleet - if that is the case it doesn't look like they will ever take up the undelivered 777Ws.


Aeroflot just unveiled a new business class product on the most recent 777.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:29 am

TWA772LR wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
There are 77Ws waiting to deliver to Aeroflot. Seems like Boeing will still build them if customers want it.

AFAIK the 77F is *merely* (in layman's terms) a shrink of the 77W.

Said "layman's terms" would be incorrect.

People always make that mistake because the 77W debuted before the 77L, but the 77W is a stretch of the 772 frame.
The 77L/77F are not engineered as a shrink.
 
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Polot
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:08 am

zeke wrote:
Polot wrote:
The intention was always to sell it along side the 777X until a 777XF was ready.


Where has Boeing said that ?

The whole 777X production line upgrade from the beginning was designed so they could build 777Xs and current 777s alongside each other on the exact same line. That wasn’t done so Boing can continue to sell 77L/77Ws.
 
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zeke
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:32 am

Polot wrote:
The whole 777X production line upgrade from the beginning was designed so they could build 777Xs and current 777s alongside each other on the exact same line. That wasn’t done so Boing can continue to sell 77L/77Ws.


So you can point to where they have outlined that ? I had thought the 77X was being built on its own low rate initial production line, and they were reorganizing the 777 line because the 77X would not fit.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:33 am

LAX772LR wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
There are 77Ws waiting to deliver to Aeroflot. Seems like Boeing will still build them if customers want it.

AFAIK the 77F is *merely* (in layman's terms) a shrink of the 77W.

Said "layman's terms" would be incorrect.

People always make that mistake because the 77W debuted before the 77L, but the 77W is a stretch of the 772 frame.
The 77L/77F are not engineered as a shrink.


Correct. The 777-300 debuted not that long after the 777-200 flew commercially for the first time. The 777-300ER instead debuted in February 2003.
 
morrisond
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:06 pm

zeke wrote:
Polot wrote:
The whole 777X production line upgrade from the beginning was designed so they could build 777Xs and current 777s alongside each other on the exact same line. That wasn’t done so Boing can continue to sell 77L/77Ws.


So you can point to where they have outlined that ? I had thought the 77X was being built on its own low rate initial production line, and they were reorganizing the 777 line because the 77X would not fit.


Here you go.https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... cranks-on/
 
Niloko
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:24 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
There are 77Ws waiting to deliver to Aeroflot. Seems like Boeing will still build them if customers want it.

AFAIK the 77F is *merely* (in layman's terms) a shrink of the 77W.

Said "layman's terms" would be incorrect.

People always make that mistake because the 77W debuted before the 77L, but the 77W is a stretch of the 772 frame.
The 77L/77F are not engineered as a shrink.

I think calling 77L a 77W shrink still makes total sense tho. Like calling A338 a shrink of A339 or something like that. The main point being making the 77W is much closer to the 77L than it is to the 772's stretch with no further changes, 773.
 
Noshow
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:45 pm

So how about calling it the freighter twin-brother of the 777-200LR?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:23 pm

Niloko wrote:
I think calling 77L a 77W shrink still makes total sense tho.

No, it doesn't. At all.

In a nutshell:
  • A stretch is a base design with increased structure (usually purposely) built INTO it, for the objective of adding size/weight/capability.
  • A shrink is a base design where structure is taken OUT, usually for the purpose of quickly increasing payload/range over the base at lower cost.

The two are not interchangeable, no matter how often avgeeks tend to conflate them, because the engineering processes to achieve them can vary quite a bit.

Again, because stretches are usually anticipated in base design, they're fairly straightforward to achieve (A380 is a prime example of this, despite a stretch never coming to market. Wing and box of the base model are significantly "overbuilt" in order to sustain both a stretch and a freighter).

Shrinks are another matter, because not only is it difficult to take out weight (particularly if that wasn't anticipated in the original base design), but even when you successfully do, it's hard to beat a competing model that's initially engineered for that particular market segment. That's why designs like the 736 and A318 were such flops.

    Even designs that DID anticipate a shrink, rarely do well: A358 being a prime example.

    Where shrinks have succeeded, albeit temporarily, is when they immediately address a payload/range deficiency in the base (e.g. A319 and A332), but even then, as base models get more capable, they tend to supersede the need for those initially-capable shrinks (e.g. nobody was buying A332s once A333 went to 242tonnes with activated center tank).
______________________________________
In the case of the 77L/77W, Boeing took the 772 frame, stretched it (as it already had in 1998 for the 773A) strengthened the wing, added bigger engines, rakes, and semi-levered gear, and called it 77W. That came to market first.

Then they took the 772 frame, didn't stretch it, but strengthened/raked the wing, added new engines, and optional ducting for auxiliary fuel tanks, left off the levered-gear, and called it 77L. They did not start with a 773 base and take structure out of it.



Niloko wrote:
Like calling A338 a shrink of A339 or something like that.

Bad analogy, considering that the A332/338 *are* shrinks of the A333/A339.
 
Niloko
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:12 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Niloko wrote:
I think calling 77L a 77W shrink still makes total sense tho.

No, it doesn't. At all.

In a nutshell:
  • A stretch is a base design with increased structure (usually purposely) built INTO it, for the objective of adding size/weight/capability.
  • A shrink is a base design where structure is taken OUT, usually for the purpose of quickly increasing payload/range over the base at lower cost.

The two are not interchangeable, no matter how often avgeeks tend to conflate them, because the engineering processes to achieve them can vary quite a bit.

Again, because stretches are usually anticipated in base design, they're fairly straightforward to achieve (A380 is a prime example of this, despite a stretch never coming to market. Wing and box of the base model are significantly "overbuilt" in order to sustain both a stretch and a freighter).

Shrinks are another matter, because not only is it difficult to take out weight (particularly if that wasn't anticipated in the original base design), but even when you successfully do, it's hard to beat a competing model that's initially engineered for that particular market segment. That's why designs like the 736 and A318 were such flops.

    Even designs that DID anticipate a shrink, rarely do well: A358 being a prime example.

    Where shrinks have succeeded, albeit temporarily, is when they immediately address a payload/range deficiency in the base (e.g. A319 and A332), but even then, as base models get more capable, they tend to supersede the need for those initially-capable shrinks (e.g. nobody was buying A332s once A333 went to 242tonnes with activated center tank).
______________________________________
In the case of the 77L/77W, Boeing took the 772 frame, stretched it (as it already had in 1998 for the 773A) strengthened the wing, added bigger engines, rakes, and semi-levered gear, and called it 77W. That came to market first.

Then they took the 772 frame, didn't stretch it, but strengthened/raked the wing, added new engines, and optional ducting for auxiliary fuel tanks, left off the levered-gear, and called it 77L. They did not start with a 773 base and take structure out of it.



Niloko wrote:
Like calling A338 a shrink of A339 or something like that.

Bad analogy, considering that the A332/338 *are* shrinks of the A333/A339.

Ah thanks for the clarification.
 
USTraveler
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:28 am

I had the pleasure of flying on a 77L IAH-DXB-IAH in 2008... I was told it was the longest route in the world at the time. Over 18.5 hours
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:29 am

USTraveler wrote:
I had the pleasure of flying on a 77L IAH-DXB-IAH in 2008... I was told it was the longest route in the world at the time. Over 18.5 hours


That's not correct certainly not in terms of time, IAH-DXB looks to be blocked at 14:50, maybe in terms of distance it was up there?
 
timpdx
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:10 am

I had a number of AUH-LAX legs on the 77L. Longest clocked in at 16:45 or so. When it started on EY it was 3rd or 4th longest in the world by distance, not sure on endurance. (done 15:30s on LA HKG, far from the longest, but up there at the time for endurance esp. in Winter)
 
USTraveler
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:32 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
USTraveler wrote:
I had the pleasure of flying on a 77L IAH-DXB-IAH in 2008... I was told it was the longest route in the world at the time. Over 18.5 hours


That's not correct certainly not in terms of time, IAH-DXB looks to be blocked at 14:50, maybe in terms of distance it was up there?


Yes; It was certainly that long, time-wise flying DXB-IAH; at least the one time I flew on it. I never calculated the distance
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Has Boeing permanently stopped production of all 777 passenger jets except 777X?

Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:14 am

USTraveler wrote:
I had the pleasure of flying on a 77L IAH-DXB-IAH in 2008... I was told it was the longest route in the world at the time. Over 18.5 hours

It wasn't anywhere near the longest flight in the world at that time. Well over 1,300mi short of it.

Even if going off flight time (which is understandable for flight planning, but fallacious as a means of comparison) then it still wouldn't cut it. The westbound DXB-IAH rarely exceeds 16.5hr, thus if an (anomalous) 18.5hr routing did occur, it still would be shorter than some EWR-SIN ops in winter, which had already been in operation for 4yrs at that point.

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