Cape Air (9K) accident in PVC no fatalities

B757rocket · Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:15 pm

Weather to blame possibly;

https://whdh.com/news/official-plane-wi ... -cape-cod/

MEA-707 · Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:00 pm

according to flightradar it is likely Cessna 402 N88833 from Boston, flight 9K-2072. Glad no fatalities and that it's not the new Tecnam P2012.

asuflyer · Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:22 pm

The aircraft in question is N88833 which was operating Cape Air Flight 345, it is unknown why the flight number has been announced as 2072. The crashed aircraft is not actually in Cape Air colors it is one of the aircraft they operate in Nantucket Airlines livery. Reports coming in from Provincetown are that the aircraft crashed in a wooded area and the location is not on airport property and the aircraft came down near Province Lands Road.

N415XJ · Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:40 pm

asuflyer wrote:
The aircraft in question is N88833 which was operating Cape Air Flight 345, it is unknown why the flight number has been announced as 2072. T

The Cape Air confirmed it was flight 2072 on twitter:

https://twitter.com/CapeAir/status/1436 ... ape-cod%2F

Also according to FR24 N88833's most recent flight was 2072 BOS-PVC: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n88833

However it's a bit confusing as prior to that it is listed as operating flight 345 BOS-ACK, which apparently departed at 3:04PM. However it's stated as having diverted to PVC, but the next flight is then 2072 BOS-PVC departing at 3:05.

9K2702 info: https://www.boston-airport.com/logan-fl ... ure/9K2072

9K345 info: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/KAP345

Seems like there's two flight numbers being conflated for some reason.,

RobertS975 · Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:18 pm

The TV metereologist description of broken tree limbs certainly sounds dire, but after all 7 were transported to the hospital in Hyannis, there are reportedly no life threatening injuries.

usdcaguy · Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:26 pm

N415XJ wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
The aircraft in question is N88833 which was operating Cape Air Flight 345, it is unknown why the flight number has been announced as 2072. T

The Cape Air confirmed it was flight 2072 on twitter:

https://twitter.com/CapeAir/status/1436 ... ape-cod%2F

Also according to FR24 N88833's most recent flight was 2072 BOS-PVC: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n88833

However it's a bit confusing as prior to that it is listed as operating flight 345 BOS-ACK, which apparently departed at 3:04PM. However it's stated as having diverted to PVC, but the next flight is then 2072 BOS-PVC departing at 3:05.

9K2702 info: https://www.boston-airport.com/logan-fl ... ure/9K2072

9K345 info: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/KAP345

Seems like there's two flight numbers being conflated for some reason.,

Cape Air says that the flight "exited" the runway. Since when does exited mean the same thing as missed??

MO11 · Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:51 pm

N415XJ wrote:

9K2702 info: https://www.boston-airport.com/logan-fl ... ure/9K2072

9K345 info: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/KAP345

Seems like there's two flight numbers being conflated for some reason.,

Cape Air uses ATC flight numbers ("radio numbers") that differ from the numbers in the flight schedule. In Flightaware, you'll see that the scheduled flight never flies. Each pilot is assigned his/her own number, and uses that same number for all flights.

N1120A · Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:50 pm

This sounds like a runway excursion, not a "crash." Thankfully everyone is ok.

MEA-707 wrote:
according to flightradar it is likely Cessna 402 N88833 from Boston, flight 9K-2072. Glad no fatalities and that it's not the new Tecnam P2012.

I'd say it is a pity that it was a loss of a beautiful Twin Cessna, but I digress...

N766UA · Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:23 am

Each pilot at Cape Air has their own callsign, which is seperate from the segment’s published flight number. A given pilot will fly with his or her callsign throughout his or her career at 9K.

I have a lot of time in that airplane and flew to Ptown regularly. It’s unforgiving. I won’t speculate suffice to say KAP345 was a very experienced pilot and a dude everyone in the Northeast knew well. I hope they’re all okay and am so glad nobody was killed; it hurts when it hits so close to home.

N415XJ · Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:41 am

N766UA wrote:
Each pilot at Cape Air has their own callsign, which is seperate from the segment’s published flight number. A given pilot will fly with his or her callsign throughout his or her career at 9K.

Interesting. Does any other airline do this? And I wonder what the reasoning behind it is. Is it to solve some operational issue or just a company culture thing?

LimaFoxTango · Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:48 am

N766UA wrote:
Each pilot at Cape Air has their own callsign, which is seperate from the segment’s published flight number. A given pilot will fly with his or her callsign throughout his or her career at 9K.

I have a lot of time in that airplane and flew to Ptown regularly. It’s unforgiving. I won’t speculate suffice to say KAP345 was a very experienced pilot and a dude everyone in the Northeast knew well. I hope they’re all okay and am so glad nobody was killed; it hurts when it hits so close to home.

I always wondered about why 9K callsigns never seem to match their flight number. Never noticed the same number repeated though. Interesting.

N766UA · Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:08 am

N415XJ wrote:
N766UA wrote:
Each pilot at Cape Air has their own callsign, which is seperate from the segment’s published flight number. A given pilot will fly with his or her callsign throughout his or her career at 9K.

Interesting. Does any other airline do this? And I wonder what the reasoning behind it is. Is it to solve some operational issue or just a company culture thing?

Many part 135 companies do it. Plane Sense and Boutique both do as well, I believe. I think it's because some 9K pilots do upwards of 12 flights a day, so keeping your callsign is just way easier both to remember and also to use for filing flight plans. 9K pilots do all their own flight planning. When I was there, I almost never knew the *actual* flight number for any given leg I was flying, and operationally it's completely insignificant.

N1120A · Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:21 am

N415XJ wrote:
N766UA wrote:
Each pilot at Cape Air has their own callsign, which is seperate from the segment’s published flight number. A given pilot will fly with his or her callsign throughout his or her career at 9K.

Interesting. Does any other airline do this? And I wonder what the reasoning behind it is. Is it to solve some operational issue or just a company culture thing?

I know 135 carriers either assign them to pilots or individual airplanes.

AmericanAir88 · Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:26 am

Glad to hear everyone survived and is doing ok. I am seeing conflicting reports, some saying it was a full on crash that went into the trees in flames, other reports say it was a runway incident.

MO11 · Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:37 am

N766UA wrote:
N415XJ wrote:
N766UA wrote:
Each pilot at Cape Air has their own callsign, which is seperate from the segment’s published flight number. A given pilot will fly with his or her callsign throughout his or her career at 9K.

Interesting. Does any other airline do this? And I wonder what the reasoning behind it is. Is it to solve some operational issue or just a company culture thing?

Many part 135 companies do it. Plane Sense and Boutique both do as well, I believe. I think it's because some 9K pilots do upwards of 12 flights a day, so keeping your callsign is just way easier both to remember and also to use for filing flight plans. 9K pilots do all their own flight planning. When I was there, I almost never knew the *actual* flight number for any given leg I was flying, and operationally it's completely insignificant.

Boutique doesn't do it. But Advanced Air assigns each plane a flight number (not associated with the N number).

FlyingElvii · Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:13 am

Vis 3 miles low ceilings, heavy rain reported. Photo of the radar at the time of the crash.
https://twitter.com/Wx_Dustin/status/14 ... 9228044289

Meter at 337pm, some minutes after the incident
KPVC 091937Z AUTO 21010KT 3SM +RA BR FEW002 BKN034 OVC050 21/21 A2979 RMK AO2 P0022
3500 ft runway. Alignment is 25-7.

Given the radar pick above, a crosswind gust?

EDIT: After looking at video taken from above, and about 3/4 to a mile away, it looks like he departed off the end of 7 into the trees.
Likely had a gusting tailwind. Not healthy on a short runway, even for a twin.
RNAV’s for both 7 and 25, but only 7 has an ILS approach, per ForeFlight.

FlyingElvii · Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:18 am

Pic of the airplane after the fire was put out.
https://twitter.com/DrewKaredes/status/ ... 5545968640

Surrounded by trees, but none through the cabin area. Incredibly lucky, IMHO.

N766UA · Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:50 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
Pic of the airplane after the fire was put out.
https://twitter.com/DrewKaredes/status/ ... 5545968640

Surrounded by trees, but none through the cabin area. Incredibly lucky, IMHO.

Ugh, that’s just sickening to see. I’m so glad everyone made it.

This is a huge deal at a small, close-knit company like 9K. Wishing everyone a speedy recovery.

B6BOSfan · Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:00 am

Passenger on the plane spoke to local station in Boston.
https://www.wcvb.com/article/provincetown-airport-race-point-road-crash-hard-landing-six-hurt/37532594

Kerr told WCVB's John Atwater the plane was attempting to land, but ran into trouble.

"We were obviously not going to land and picked back up," Kerr said.

"All of a sudden, we just hit the ground in the trees and burst into flames in the front, and then the right side bursts in the flames," Kerr said.

She said people then started to go out of the back of the plane, but she struggled to get her seatbelt off.

"I ripped the seat out and turned it around to use it like a shield from the flames," Kerr said.

FlyingElvii · Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:06 am

B6BOSfan wrote:
Passenger on the plane spoke to local station in Boston.
https://www.wcvb.com/article/provincetown-airport-race-point-road-crash-hard-landing-six-hurt/37532594

Kerr told WCVB's John Atwater the plane was attempting to land, but ran into trouble.

"We were obviously not going to land and picked back up," Kerr said.

"All of a sudden, we just hit the ground in the trees and burst into flames in the front, and then the right side bursts in the flames," Kerr said.

She said people then started to go out of the back of the plane, but she struggled to get her seatbelt off.

"I ripped the seat out and turned it around to use it like a shield from the flames," Kerr said.

That sounds like a windshear downdraft, or a tailwind-induced loss of lift.

N766UA · Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:12 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
B6BOSfan wrote:
Passenger on the plane spoke to local station in Boston.
https://www.wcvb.com/article/provincetown-airport-race-point-road-crash-hard-landing-six-hurt/37532594

Kerr told WCVB's John Atwater the plane was attempting to land, but ran into trouble.

"We were obviously not going to land and picked back up," Kerr said.

"All of a sudden, we just hit the ground in the trees and burst into flames in the front, and then the right side bursts in the flames," Kerr said.

She said people then started to go out of the back of the plane, but she struggled to get her seatbelt off.

"I ripped the seat out and turned it around to use it like a shield from the flames," Kerr said.

That sounds like a windshear downdraft, or a tailwind-induced loss of lift.

Go-arounds and rejected landings arent easy with strong tailwinds or gusts/turbulance. In my experience, you may not get the performance you’d otherwise expect.

F9Animal · Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:21 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
B6BOSfan wrote:
Passenger on the plane spoke to local station in Boston.
https://www.wcvb.com/article/provincetown-airport-race-point-road-crash-hard-landing-six-hurt/37532594

Kerr told WCVB's John Atwater the plane was attempting to land, but ran into trouble.

"We were obviously not going to land and picked back up," Kerr said.

"All of a sudden, we just hit the ground in the trees and burst into flames in the front, and then the right side bursts in the flames," Kerr said.

She said people then started to go out of the back of the plane, but she struggled to get her seatbelt off.

"I ripped the seat out and turned it around to use it like a shield from the flames," Kerr said.

That sounds like a windshear downdraft, or a tailwind-induced loss of lift.

Yeah first thing that I thought of was a microburst. Thank God everyone is going to be okay! Bet that was scary for them.

Of course I had to go and check out Cape Airs safety record. Wow! They have a pretty good safety record actually! Darn good pilots too. Based on the survivors interview, the pilot climbed in and helped her get her seatbelt off and out of the plane! Kudos to the pilot!

TWA302 · Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:30 am

F9Animal wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
B6BOSfan wrote:
Passenger on the plane spoke to local station in Boston.
https://www.wcvb.com/article/provincetown-airport-race-point-road-crash-hard-landing-six-hurt/37532594

Kerr told WCVB's John Atwater the plane was attempting to land, but ran into trouble.

"We were obviously not going to land and picked back up," Kerr said.

"All of a sudden, we just hit the ground in the trees and burst into flames in the front, and then the right side bursts in the flames," Kerr said.

She said people then started to go out of the back of the plane, but she struggled to get her seatbelt off.

"I ripped the seat out and turned it around to use it like a shield from the flames," Kerr said.

That sounds like a windshear downdraft, or a tailwind-induced loss of lift.

Yeah first thing that I thought of was a microburst. Thank God everyone is going to be okay! Bet that was scary for them.

Of course I had to go and check out Cape Airs safety record. Wow! They have a pretty good safety record actually! Darn good pilots too. Based on the survivors interview, the pilot climbed in and helped her get her seatbelt off and out of the plane! Kudos to the pilot!

Really glad all are going to recover from their injuries. I have flown 9K about 30 times over the past 8 years and they are always super professional. Their record proceeds them.

usxguy · Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:34 am

Not quite sure I'd agree with Cape Air's statement the plane "exited the runway" as it doesn't sound like it was even ON the runway. More like a go around that failed.

402s are severely underpowered. Don't forget, Aaliyah died in a 402 in Marsh Harbour that was significantly overweight.

maps4ltd · Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:39 am

usxguy wrote:
Not quite sure I'd agree with Cape Air's statement the plane "exited the runway" as it doesn't sound like it was even ON the runway. More like a go around that failed.

402s are severely underpowered. Don't forget, Aaliyah died in a 402 in Marsh Harbour that was significantly overweight.

That crash had nothing to do with the aircraft and everything to do with the pilot. He had coke and alcohol in his bloodstream and was not authorized to fly the 402 for Blackhawk.

MEA-707 · Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:59 am

N1120A wrote:
This sounds like a runway excursion, not a "crash." Thankfully everyone is ok.

MEA-707 wrote:
according to flightradar it is likely Cessna 402 N88833 from Boston, flight 9K-2072. Glad no fatalities and that it's not the new Tecnam P2012.

I'd say it is a pity that it was a loss of a beautiful Twin Cessna, but I digress...

The Cessna is a great aircraft, also a better looker than the Tecnam. What I meant is that the Cessna has proven itself to be a reliable workhorse. If the Tecnam crashed already on a proving flight, it could bring the total program in jeopardy, even if it's not the fault of the aircraft. While it's one of the very few twin props now in production already.

F27500 · Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:20 pm

P.R. garbage ... "it exited the runway" they said. .. No.. It CRASHED. Such liars.

PlymSpotter · Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:42 pm

Whilst it's a shame to see any aircraft in flames, I'm glad that everyone managed to walk away

Flew this aircraft into Hyannis just over 10 years ago - quite surprised it's in the same livery.

11C · Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:48 pm

F27500 wrote:
P.R. garbage ... "it exited the runway" they said. .. No.. It CRASHED. Such liars.

Information is usually very sketchy just after an incident. I agree that it would be better to not release any information, rather than releasing misleading information. But calling someone “liars” in this situation is also pointless.

N1120A · Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:17 pm

F27500 wrote:
P.R. garbage ... "it exited the runway" they said. .. No.. It CRASHED. Such liars.

It was a runway excursion.

snn2003 · Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:08 pm

I am from The Cape originally, and I have taken Cape Air many times in my life. They are a wonderful little airline with professional crews and high standards. I am happy to see everyone made it out.

FiscAutTecGarte · Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:27 pm

I hope none of the burns or breaks are serious. I am relieved to see that all survided. I always follow Cape Air with great interest. Their CEO still flies an occasional passenger flight. Safety is at the forefront of their operations, no doubt!

F9Animal · Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:51 pm

F27500 wrote:
P.R. garbage ... "it exited the runway" they said. .. No.. It CRASHED. Such liars.

Wow!! First I suggest taking a deep breath and relax. They were trying to be transparent and whoever sent that out was given minimal information at the time it went out. Calling them liars is not right.

hivue · Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:08 pm

F9Animal wrote:
F27500 wrote:
P.R. garbage ... "it exited the runway" they said. .. No.. It CRASHED. Such liars.

Wow!! First I suggest taking a deep breath and relax. They were trying to be transparent and whoever sent that out was given minimal information at the time it went out. Calling them liars is not right.

Even Blancolirio bought the company's implication of a runway excursion rather than an outright crash from an altitude above field elevation.

deebee278 · Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:16 pm

N1120A wrote:
N415XJ wrote:
N766UA wrote:
Each pilot at Cape Air has their own callsign, which is seperate from the segment’s published flight number. A given pilot will fly with his or her callsign throughout his or her career at 9K.

Interesting. Does any other airline do this? And I wonder what the reasoning behind it is. Is it to solve some operational issue or just a company culture thing?

I know 135 carriers either assign them to pilots or individual airplanes.

I flew for Scenic in the early 80s. We used the aircraft number, "Scenic 57" for example. I never knew the published flight number. Each 'flight number' was load dependent. One flight could consist of one to ten aircraft, for example, depending on the situation.

ADent · Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:19 am

hivue wrote:

Even Blancolirio bought the company's implication of a runway excursion rather than an outright crash from an altitude above field elevation.

He put it at 900 feet beyond the runway - seemed awfully far for a Cessna overrun.

TWA772LR · Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:56 am

N766UA wrote:
N415XJ wrote:
N766UA wrote:
Each pilot at Cape Air has their own callsign, which is seperate from the segment’s published flight number. A given pilot will fly with his or her callsign throughout his or her career at 9K.

Interesting. Does any other airline do this? And I wonder what the reasoning behind it is. Is it to solve some operational issue or just a company culture thing?

Many part 135 companies do it. Plane Sense and Boutique both do as well, I believe. I think it's because some 9K pilots do upwards of 12 flights a day, so keeping your callsign is just way easier both to remember and also to use for filing flight plans. 9K pilots do all their own flight planning. When I was there, I almost never knew the *actual* flight number for any given leg I was flying, and operationally it's completely insignificant.

Sounds like flying for Cape Air puts some serious hair on your chest. At my carrier, they are highly respected in our flight training department, Great Lakes was too.

Revelation · Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:20 am

B6BOSfan wrote:
Passenger on the plane spoke to local station in Boston.
https://www.wcvb.com/article/provincetown-airport-race-point-road-crash-hard-landing-six-hurt/37532594

Kerr told WCVB's John Atwater the plane was attempting to land, but ran into trouble.

"We were obviously not going to land and picked back up," Kerr said.

"All of a sudden, we just hit the ground in the trees and burst into flames in the front, and then the right side bursts in the flames," Kerr said.

She said people then started to go out of the back of the plane, but she struggled to get her seatbelt off.

"I ripped the seat out and turned it around to use it like a shield from the flames," Kerr said.

I don't see how this is called a "runway excursion". I watched the blancolirio video and looked at the twitter photo above and we don't see the plane plowing a path to the crash site, we see an airborne aircraft entering the trees. Glad no serious injuries resulted. Planes can be replaced, people can't.

N766UA · Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:33 pm

Revelation wrote:
B6BOSfan wrote:
Passenger on the plane spoke to local station in Boston.
https://www.wcvb.com/article/provincetown-airport-race-point-road-crash-hard-landing-six-hurt/37532594

Kerr told WCVB's John Atwater the plane was attempting to land, but ran into trouble.

"We were obviously not going to land and picked back up," Kerr said.

"All of a sudden, we just hit the ground in the trees and burst into flames in the front, and then the right side bursts in the flames," Kerr said.

She said people then started to go out of the back of the plane, but she struggled to get her seatbelt off.

"I ripped the seat out and turned it around to use it like a shield from the flames," Kerr said.

I don't see how this is called a "runway excursion". I watched the blancolirio video and looked at the twitter photo above and we don't see the plane plowing a path to the crash site, we see an airborne aircraft entering the trees. Glad no serious injuries resulted. Planes can be replaced, people can't.

My gut reaction was that I don’t buy the runway excursion, either. There’s no way he landed and then rocketed 1000 feet off into the trees. If this was me, I feel like I’d have either broke out and realized I wasn’t going to be able to land, or touched down and realized I wasn’t going to stop, then initiated a go-around/rejected landing. What happens next and why is pure speculation, but I don’t think they were on the ground entering the trees.

I will say that, in heavy rain, it’s *very* challenging to see out the front windscreen of a 402. Also, in a GA scenario, it takes a few seconds for those turbos to spool up and get you full power, and the gear and flaps take some time, too. PVC’s not a big airport.

Revelation · Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:03 pm

N766UA wrote:
I will say that, in heavy rain, it’s *very* challenging to see out the front windscreen of a 402. Also, in a GA scenario, it takes a few seconds for those turbos to spool up and get you full power, and the gear and flaps take some time, too. PVC’s not a big airport.

I don't want to be overly dramatic, but it must be a worrying time for management, as someone in the insurance company must be asking themselves how close this was to the worst case scenario.

Aesma · Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:07 am

Disputing the "runway excursion" description is one thing, but at least it's the correct description for a type of aircraft incident/accident, whereas "crash" is as ambiguous as it gets.

wjcandee · Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:03 am

That a passenger said they "picked back up" does suggest an attempted go-around.

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