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dennys
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Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:10 pm

Hello , sorry if that question has been treated , but I am afraid the SAL / SAA 747SP never flew NYC non stop from JNB . Can you tell me why . This SP jumbo has been purchased for Ultra Long Distances. .

Many thanks

Dennys
 
9252fly
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:22 pm

Flew the JFK JNB sector non-stop on a SP in my younger years. JNB is at high altitude so it likely impacted the performance in respect to payload, hence the technical stop at SAL. Those were the days, I remember arriving in the middle of the night with armed soldiers on the tarmac at SAL and other SA 747s going in different directions.
 
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africawings
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:37 pm

I know routing around West African countries opposed to the Apartheid regime posed problems for SAA at the time. They were not allowed direct overflights and had to really go out of the way to circumvent the West African coastline. To do this meant relying on favourable winds and light loads, which might have impacted their non-stop capabilities. I know they refuelled off the West African Coast on one of the islands of Cape Verde regularly...
 
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RWA380
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:15 pm

This article says the 747sp allowed SAA to save 2.5 hours to NYC vs the usual GIG stop on the 707-300. It does not state n/s it could be an SID stop or Cape Varde.

https://saahistory.wordpress.com/2016/0 ... agreement/

Remember 1976 was about the time apartheid took place & the world took action, soon SAA was revoked landing rights in the USA. I think it was a 14 year hiatus. By then the 747sp was gone & the 747-400 could fly n/s on a good day & light enough
 
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LHRBFSTrident
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:17 pm

dennys wrote:
Hello , sorry if that question has been treated , but I am afraid the SAL / SAA 747SP never flew NYC non stop from JNB . Can you tell me why . This SP jumbo has been purchased for Ultra Long Distances. .

Many thanks

Dennys


The definition of Ultra-Long Distance was very different in the 1970s and early 1980s when the 747SP was developed and offered by Boeing. Early 747s barely had endurance to operate segments we think of as routine nowadays (such as LAX-NRT, for example). A compounding factor for virtually every SAA/SAL route was the altitude at JNB which takes a huge bite out of any aircraft's range when departing fully laden.

Also ETOPS was not developed until the mid/late 1980s with the advent of the 767 - prior to that the only options for long-haul wide-body aircraft were 747-200B, DC-10-30 and L1011-200/L1011-500. SAA/SAL would have seen the 747SP as an aircraft to serve long/thin routes where their -200Bs were perhaps too large, while maintaining a certain fleet commonality (I know, I know: -SP had some major differences from the -200B...)

It is often stated that the route the 747SP was designed for was JFK-THR which is 5328nm - only about 600nm farther than LAX-NRT - which would be a breeze for today's wide-bodies but at the time was impossible to operate routinely with a full load on any aircraft
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:20 pm

Though not directly on topic, I offer:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-2000-01-27-0001261109-story.html

"In a move that will add credibility to the international part of Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport, the national carrier of South Africa said Wednesday it will begin serving the airport on Monday.

South African Airways will bring a 377-seat Boeing 747 to Fort Lauderdale three times a week.

The new stop coincides with South African Airways' decision to end service to Miami in favor of Atlanta. The flight will stop in Fort Lauderdale on its way to Atlanta. Return service from Atlanta to Cape Town and Johannesburg will not stop in Fort Lauderdale.

Last year about 200,000 people flew between the United States and South Africa, an airline spokeswoman said. Besides Miami, the airline's only other U.S. gateway is New York.

The 7,690-mile flight between Cape Town and Fort Lauderdale will take 14 hours and 50 minutes, making it one of the longest scheduled international flights in the world. Coach class round-trip tickets, including a Delta Air Lines flight to Atlanta, begin at $1,013, a spokeswoman said."


The article is taken from 01/27/2000, and discusses how SAA was handling their other planned destination at the time.

How I relished, years later, seeing the SAA A340s at ATL (much needed break in the DL/FL monotony). Did the arrival of the A340s reduce/remove the need for the tech-stops, and thus allowed truly non-stop services?
 
9252fly
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:23 pm

RWA380 wrote:
It does not state n/s it could be an SID stop or Cape Varde.


SID is an airport on one of the Cape Verde islands called Sal, translated from Portuguese as Salt island. It has interestingly enough become quite the touristy island for Europeans having reportedly fantastic beaches.
 
9252fly
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:30 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:
Did the arrival of the A340s reduce/remove the need for the tech-stops, and thus allowed truly non-stop services?


If the flight was departing from CPT I would say it was non-stop as the airport is at sea level. I don't know if the flight originated from JNB as most international flights in and out of the country arrive and depart from there as it's the main hub in the country.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:38 pm

LHRBFSTrident wrote:
dennys wrote:
Hello , sorry if that question has been treated , but I am afraid the SAL / SAA 747SP never flew NYC non stop from JNB . Can you tell me why . This SP jumbo has been purchased for Ultra Long Distances. .

Many thanks

Dennys


The definition of Ultra-Long Distance was very different in the 1970s and early 1980s when the 747SP was developed and offered by Boeing. Early 747s barely had endurance to operate segments we think of as routine nowadays (such as LAX-NRT, for example). A compounding factor for virtually every SAA/SAL route was the altitude at JNB which takes a huge bite out of any aircraft's range when departing fully laden.

Also ETOPS was not developed until the mid/late 1980s with the advent of the 767 - prior to that the only options for long-haul wide-body aircraft were 747-200B, DC-10-30 and L1011-200/L1011-500. SAA/SAL would have seen the 747SP as an aircraft to serve long/thin routes where their -200Bs were perhaps too large, while maintaining a certain fleet commonality (I know, I know: -SP had some major differences from the -200B...)

It is often stated that the route the 747SP was designed for was JFK-THR which is 5328nm - only about 600nm farther than LAX-NRT - which would be a breeze for today's wide-bodies but at the time was impossible to operate routinely with a full load on any aircraft


To add to the "Hot and High" performance at JNB, there was another issue at play that might concern the issue.

In advance, I do state that I am only referring to this issue as it did present key operational challenges to the airline, and do not wish to offer public comment on the political/racial issue at the time (in hopes of complying with topic/forum rules). During Apartheid, SAA was largely not permitted to fly 'freely' over the African continent. It did change how and where the aircraft were routed, their ranges/performances, and this was above/beyond the impressive 'hot/high' issues at JNB.

https://tr.pinterest.com/pin/26810560270697089/

http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,870458,00.html"Until last month, S.A.A.'s Boeing 707 jets operated two efficient routes between Johannesburg and Europe—one along Africa's east fringe, via Nairobi, Kenya; the other almost due north via Brazzaville, in the once-French Congo. Trouble began when, implementing the Addis Ababa agreement, Egypt, Algeria, Ethiopia and Sudan barred South African aircraft from overflying their territories. S.A.A. rerouted all its flights over Libya. But then Libya also joined the air blockade. Fortnight ago S.A.A. inaugurated a carefully prepared, out-of-the-way alternate route around West Africa's bulge, via Brazzaville (which so far has not joined the ban), Luanda, capital of Portuguese Angola, and Las Palmas in the Spanish Canary Islands (see map). The "apartheid route" takes about 900 miles and two hours longer to Europe, costs an estimated $3,000 more to operate each way, so that S.A.A. may well be hard pressed to preserve its share of the lucrative European market as well as last year's handsome $1,500,000 profit.

As usual, South Africa's white regime took its latest humiliation in stolid stride. Following an agreement quietly signed last May with Portugal, its like-minded ally, South Africa is putting up $5,300,000 to help construct a jet airport on the Cape Verde island of Sal as an additional refueling stop. South African Minister of Transport Ben Schoeman assured everyone that the island-hopping detour is every bit as safe as the old routes. "We are flying and will keep flying," he vowed."


The article, dated from Friday, Sept. 06, 1963 - discussed many of the issues, but at the time. I must admit that the article is a good read (for its ability to capture the authors mood/perspective at the time). In order to keep the quote within forum limits, I chose to exclude the first paragraph (which discusses what the another member described upon arrival), in order to discuss how and why SAL developed as the stop, for SAA.

I do not agree with the views of, or the implementation of the Apartheid government or system in general. The information above is not meant to authorize, or demonstrate support to the regime(s) or system. I reiterate that I offered the above, in order to share with others - in the aviation community, the historical perspective, and how it presented itself in practical operations.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:51 pm

9252fly wrote:
Rajahdhani wrote:
Did the arrival of the A340s reduce/remove the need for the tech-stops, and thus allowed truly non-stop services?


If the flight was departing from CPT I would say it was non-stop as the airport is at sea level. I don't know if the flight originated from JNB as most international flights in and out of the country arrive and depart from there as it's the main hub in the country.


I found this topic, from 20 years ago (h/t to everyone from back then) and the JNB-ATL route did involve CPT with the 747s.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89611#p724603

Not too sure how the A340s changed the needs for them, but adding CPT would likely help in most cases.

Of note, though is when;

nickofatlanta wrote:
"ATL - CPT - JNB (operates ATL - JNB - CPT on certain days of the week)
return flights entail a fuel stop - JNB - ATL stops in Cape Verde; CPT - ATL stops in Fort Lauderdale. FLL is only served westbound.
JFK - JNB nonstop. Returns via Cape Verde.
Both ATL and JFK have one daily flight to South Africa. All flights with 744 code-shared with DL."
 
9252fly
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:17 pm

Had the opportunity to fly SAA IAD JNB on the A346 non-stop, the return was via DKR ( Dakar, Senegal ). We've come a long way in performance now that DL and UA are operating N/S both ways to/from JNB with the A359 and B789, granted sometimes with payload restrictions. Anyone remember US Africa Airways, or recall much about Pan Am's history of service to South Africa?
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:48 pm

RWA380 wrote:
Remember 1976 was about the time apartheid took place & the world took action


Ummmm....try 1948.....
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:40 am

SAA/SAL served JFK for years, and in the 1980s (I was a teenager) I seem to recall they used the old AA Terminal and I don't think they flew the -SP. I think it was the 747-200 or -300 perhaps, which then would mean it stopped somewhere. In 1991, SAA used a 747-400 to fly JFK to JNB nonstop, but the return flights required a stopover and I think that stopover was an island in the Atlantic off the coast of Africa, the name of which I now no longer remember. Later stopovers included DKR but by then SAA was flying A340s and the 346 could do the route as I recall nonstop in both directions.
 
dcajet
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:31 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
SAA/SAL served JFK for years, and in the 1980s (I was a teenager) I seem to recall they used the old AA Terminal and I don't think they flew the -SP. I think it was the 747-200 or -300 perhaps, which then would mean it stopped somewhere. In 1991, SAA used a 747-400 to fly JFK to JNB nonstop, but the return flights required a stopover and I think that stopover was an island in the Atlantic off the coast of Africa, the name of which I now no longer remember. Later stopovers included DKR but by then SAA was flying A340s and the 346 could do the route as I recall nonstop in both directions.


SAA used Amilcar Cabral airport (SID) in Espargos, Sal Island, Cape Verde. IIRC, the government of South Africa funded the improvements at SID in the late 60s, as the airport became a required fuel stop on flights to/from Europe when apartheid sanctions kicked in. In the early 70s, SAA flew to JFK via GIG; SAL was only used on the Europe routes. The arrival of the SP in 1976/77 allowed SAA to bypass SID on the Europe runs.

Beginning in 1967 and until the mid 70s SID was also used as a technical diversion point on the EZE-MAD-EZE route flown by AR with their 707-387B/C, which at the time was the longest non stop route by distance in the world. Oftentimes a fuel stop was needed on the southbound leg and SID was the diversion point as it is almost halfway between Buenos Aires and Madrid.

In the 40s and 50s, SID was also used as a refueling point on the Europe - deep South America route. The arrival of the jets in 1959 allowed airlines to bypass SID altogether and fly straight from South America to Europe with just a technical stop at either Dakar or the Canary Islands.
 
Chrisba320
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:18 am

I remember flying Johannesburg to Atlanta on the upper deck of their 747-400. Even that couldn’t do it non-stop, we had the refueling stop in SAL. The return flight was routed via Cape Town and the Atlanta - Cape Town sector was non-stop. To this day these flights were some of the best Economy Class flights I’ve had. The upper deck had spacious seats and the food and service was top notch. SAA really put their best foot forward on the US flights.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:57 am

Some of the information presented here is post-747SP. Many times the 747SP stopped at UTN/FAUP Upington on flights to London and Zurich.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:58 am

In the 70's/80's SAA operated from the BA terminal at JFK with 747-200's and SP's- flights in both directions stopped at SAL. There was also a very briefly operated once weekly JNB-SAL-IAH flight with the SP- all USA fights were then suspended due to sanctions.
 
Airlines0613
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:59 am

9252fly wrote:
Flew the JFK JNB sector non-stop on a SP in my younger years. JNB is at high altitude so it likely impacted the performance in respect to payload, hence the technical stop at SAL. Those were the days, I remember arriving in the middle of the night with armed soldiers on the tarmac at SAL and other SA 747s going in different directions.

I’m pretty sure SAA did not stop at San Salvador, El Salvador as a refueling stop. You’re confusing the airport codes.

I’m genuinely confused on why posters on this thread are using SAL, when that’s the main airport at El Salvador in Central America. I’m pretty sure you mean to use SID, which is the main airport at Sal, Cape Verde.
 
rutankrd
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:13 am

Airlines0613 wrote:
9252fly wrote:
Flew the JFK JNB sector non-stop on a SP in my younger years. JNB is at high altitude so it likely impacted the performance in respect to payload, hence the technical stop at SAL. Those were the days, I remember arriving in the middle of the night with armed soldiers on the tarmac at SAL and other SA 747s going in different directions.

I’m pretty sure SAA did not stop at San Salvador, El Salvador as a refueling stop. You’re confusing the airport codes.

I’m genuinely confused on why posters on this thread are using SAL, when that’s the main airport at El Salvador in Central America. I’m pretty sure you mean to use SID, which is the main airport at Sal, Cape Verde.


Sal is the name of the town on the island not a three letter code !
 
Toinou
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:26 am

And to add to the confusion, SAL is also the acronym for Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens, the Afrikaans version of South African Airways...
 
Galwayman
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:02 am

Anybody have the timetable for the JNB- GiG - USA routes? Or was it GRU?

We’re there 5th freedoms ? Granted under Brazil’s military dictatorship presumably?
 
factsonly
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:19 pm

Galwayman wrote:
Anybody have the timetable for the JNB- GiG - USA routes? Or was it GRU?

We’re there 5th freedoms ? Granted under Brazil’s military dictatorship presumably?


Operated early 1970's one weekly daylight service via GIG on B707-320 SA205 dep. each Saturday ex. JNB (SAA September 1972 timetable).

Image
 
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:53 pm

Airlines0613 wrote:
9252fly wrote:
Flew the JFK JNB sector non-stop on a SP in my younger years. JNB is at high altitude so it likely impacted the performance in respect to payload, hence the technical stop at SAL. Those were the days, I remember arriving in the middle of the night with armed soldiers on the tarmac at SAL and other SA 747s going in different directions.

I’m pretty sure SAA did not stop at San Salvador, El Salvador as a refueling stop. You’re confusing the airport codes.

I’m genuinely confused on why posters on this thread are using SAL, when that’s the main airport at El Salvador in Central America. I’m pretty sure you mean to use SID, which is the main airport at Sal, Cape Verde.

I'm confused why you're confused: you say this: "... which is the main airport at Sal..."
 
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spinotter
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:05 pm

rutankrd wrote:
Airlines0613 wrote:
9252fly wrote:
Flew the JFK JNB sector non-stop on a SP in my younger years. JNB is at high altitude so it likely impacted the performance in respect to payload, hence the technical stop at SAL. Those were the days, I remember arriving in the middle of the night with armed soldiers on the tarmac at SAL and other SA 747s going in different directions.

I’m pretty sure SAA did not stop at San Salvador, El Salvador as a refueling stop. You’re confusing the airport codes.

I’m genuinely confused on why posters on this thread are using SAL, when that’s the main airport at El Salvador in Central America. I’m pretty sure you mean to use SID, which is the main airport at Sal, Cape Verde.


Sal is the name of the town on the island not a three letter code !


If the island of Sal is meant, only the first letter of the name should be capitalized, not all three letters. Thence stems the confusion.
 
Airlines0613
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:36 pm

spinotter wrote:
rutankrd wrote:
Airlines0613 wrote:
I’m pretty sure SAA did not stop at San Salvador, El Salvador as a refueling stop. You’re confusing the airport codes.

I’m genuinely confused on why posters on this thread are using SAL, when that’s the main airport at El Salvador in Central America. I’m pretty sure you mean to use SID, which is the main airport at Sal, Cape Verde.


Sal is the name of the town on the island not a three letter code !


If the island of Sal is meant, only the first letter of the name should be capitalized, not all three letters. Thence stems the confusion.

Exactly, if you mention the island, it’s Sal, not SAL, which is an airport code. An island’s name should not be completely capitalized, only the first. Here in anet, when you have three capital letters, it tends to be an airport code, which in this point is El Salvador International Airport. It’s not hard to comprehend.
 
Airlines0613
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:38 pm

eta unknown wrote:
Airlines0613 wrote:
9252fly wrote:
Flew the JFK JNB sector non-stop on a SP in my younger years. JNB is at high altitude so it likely impacted the performance in respect to payload, hence the technical stop at SAL. Those were the days, I remember arriving in the middle of the night with armed soldiers on the tarmac at SAL and other SA 747s going in different directions.

I’m pretty sure SAA did not stop at San Salvador, El Salvador as a refueling stop. You’re confusing the airport codes.

I’m genuinely confused on why posters on this thread are using SAL, when that’s the main airport at El Salvador in Central America. I’m pretty sure you mean to use SID, which is the main airport at Sal, Cape Verde.

I'm confused why you're confused: you say this: "... which is the main airport at Sal..."

Capitalization matters, especially when you’re referring to aviation. Obviously you didn’t read the whole post before responding. Smh.
 
Airlines0613
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:40 pm

rutankrd wrote:
Airlines0613 wrote:
9252fly wrote:
Flew the JFK JNB sector non-stop on a SP in my younger years. JNB is at high altitude so it likely impacted the performance in respect to payload, hence the technical stop at SAL. Those were the days, I remember arriving in the middle of the night with armed soldiers on the tarmac at SAL and other SA 747s going in different directions.

I’m pretty sure SAA did not stop at San Salvador, El Salvador as a refueling stop. You’re confusing the airport codes.

I’m genuinely confused on why posters on this thread are using SAL, when that’s the main airport at El Salvador in Central America. I’m pretty sure you mean to use SID, which is the main airport at Sal, Cape Verde.

Then don’t capitalize the three letters, only the first. If you capitalize all three, it’s a valid airport code.
Sal is the name of the town on the island not a three letter code !
 
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RWA380
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:47 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
Galwayman wrote:
Anybody have the timetable for the JNB- GiG - USA routes? Or was it GRU?

We’re there 5th freedoms ? Granted under Brazil’s military dictatorship presumably?


Flew it in 1970, it was weekly, the flight enjoyed full 5th freedom rights, the plane from JFK was almost full, as my Mom said "Rowdy Brazilians partying", once we landed at GIG the plane cleared out & it was half full over to Jo'burg, There were relatively few transit passengers flying the whole 22 hours each way, the same experience on the reverse.
 
Galwayman
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:53 pm

factsonly wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Anybody have the timetable for the JNB- GiG - USA routes? Or was it GRU?

We’re there 5th freedoms ? Granted under Brazil’s military dictatorship presumably?


Operated early 1970's one weekly daylight service via GIG on B707-320 SA205 dep. each Saturday ex. JNB (SAA September 1972 timetable).

Image


Thank you very much . I see they did Luanda - Rio too . Very clever routing
 
9252fly
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:17 pm

I've posted a few times in this thread and made the mistake of using both SAL and SID in my posts, seems to be an easily made error as the island's name and airport code are both 3 letters.
 
dcajet
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:44 pm

Galwayman wrote:
Anybody have the timetable for the JNB- GiG - USA routes? Or was it GRU?

We’re there 5th freedoms ? Granted under Brazil’s military dictatorship presumably?


GIG. GRU did not open until the late 80s.
 
dcajet
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:49 pm

Galwayman wrote:
factsonly wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Anybody have the timetable for the JNB- GiG - USA routes? Or was it GRU?

We’re there 5th freedoms ? Granted under Brazil’s military dictatorship presumably?


Operated early 1970's one weekly daylight service via GIG on B707-320 SA205 dep. each Saturday ex. JNB (SAA September 1972 timetable).

Image


Thank you very much . I see they did Luanda - Rio too . Very clever routing


The Luanda - Rio was done by VARIG and continues to be flown to this day (maybe just GRU nowadays) by TAAG.
 
Galwayman
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:59 pm

RWA380 wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]

Flew it in 1970, it was weekly, the flight enjoyed full 5th freedom rights, the plane from JFK was almost full, as my Mom said "Rowdy Brazilians partying", once we landed at GIG the plane cleared out & it was half full over to Jo'burg, There were relatively few transit passengers flying the whole 22 hours each way, the same experience on the reverse.


She sounds like a nightmare . Hopefully the Brazilians just ignored her …


My Mom?, Yeah trying growing up with her, she was from Rhodesia & as prude as they came. I miss that little old British Lady & it was 1970. But her words & my Dads, they just hadn't been around a culture that enjoys their time off more than Brazilians, it wasn't the English they grew up with, America amazed them for many years & they came around (well, my Dad did). My Mom passed last year..

The 707 had 36 inch pitch & i slept on the floor by my folks feet, it was horrid as I had stomach issues on the flight after 30 hours of travel from LAX-DAL-CVG-JFK-GIG-JNB-BUQ-JNB-GIG-JFK-LAX. DL DC-8 milk run arriving at 10am, SA left 12n to 1pm landing late into GIG.


Thank god for Brazillians- we'd be lost without their love of life. Sorry to hear about your mum
 
TW870
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:34 am

Just to confirm - and I think I deduce this from the thread - SAA never operated the 747SP non-stop to North America, correct? I am almost sure the aircraft didn't have the range for JNB-JFK - especially given the hot and high conditions at JNB. The SP was JT9D-7J (or maybe 7F?) powered, which was part of the first-generation family of JT9D engines. 747 performance got much better in the late-1970s with the introduction of the new, second generation JT9D-7Q engine, which reduced fuel burn and increased power. But with the first generation motor, I think even with the lighter weight of the short-fuselage SP, fuel burn would have just been too high and thrust too low to carry the SP all the way to North America from an airport as high as JNB.
 
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eta unknown
Posts: 3131
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:53 am

Airlines0613 wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
Airlines0613 wrote:
I’m pretty sure SAA did not stop at San Salvador, El Salvador as a refueling stop. You’re confusing the airport codes.

I’m genuinely confused on why posters on this thread are using SAL, when that’s the main airport at El Salvador in Central America. I’m pretty sure you mean to use SID, which is the main airport at Sal, Cape Verde.

I'm confused why you're confused: you say this: "... which is the main airport at Sal..."

Capitalization matters, especially when you’re referring to aviation. Obviously you didn’t read the whole post before responding. Smh.


Your pedantic post was read in its entirety- everyone else read through the error of SAL instead of SID, but only you made an issue out if it... geez.
 
PA515
Posts: 1678
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:11 am

Thanks 'factsonly' for the Sep 1972 SA schedule. I met a young South African couple in the GIG Terminal late evening Sun 27 Jun 1971 as we waited for boarding calls. They were returning to JNB after their honeymoon in Rio, which they said was a popular honeymoon destination for South Africans at the time. The Sep 1972 schedule GIG-JNB is a day later, a Monday. Perhaps they had a crew in NYC in 1971, but not in 1972.

PA515
 
Airlines0613
Posts: 216
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Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:42 pm

eta unknown wrote:
Airlines0613 wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
I'm confused why you're confused: you say this: "... which is the main airport at Sal..."

Capitalization matters, especially when you’re referring to aviation. Obviously you didn’t read the whole post before responding. Smh.


Your pedantic post was read in its entirety- everyone else read through the error of SAL instead of SID, but only you made an issue out if it... geez.

All I did was mention that it was the incorrect airport code. You're the one overreacting to my post, I just responded accordingly after your response.
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5916
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Did the SAA 74Ls ever flew JNB NYC JNB NON STOP?

Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:09 pm

Galwayman wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
Galwayman wrote:

She sounds like a nightmare . Hopefully the Brazilians just ignored her …


My Mom?, Yeah trying growing up with her, she was from Rhodesia & as prude as they came. I miss that little old British Lady & it was 1970. But her words & my Dads, they just hadn't been around a culture that enjoys their time off more than Brazilians, it wasn't the English they grew up with, America amazed them for many years & they came around (well, my Dad did). My Mom passed last year..

The 707 had 36 inch pitch & i slept on the floor by my folks feet, it was horrid as I had stomach issues on the flight after 30 hours of travel from LAX-DAL-CVG-JFK-GIG-JNB-BUQ-JNB-GIG-JFK-LAX. DL DC-8 milk run arriving at 10am, SA left 12n to 1pm landing late into GIG.


Thank god for Brazillians- we'd be lost without their love of life. Sorry to hear about your mum


Got my first 747 in Aug 1970 on AA, after an overnight near JFK. My Dad talked about how big it was vs the DC-3's & C-46's he was an inflight air mechanic on, for the U.N. during the war in the Congo.

The Crews were all on one week layovers in NYC, I bet SAA would not have flown this prestige route if it were not for the GIG 5th freedom rights. The trips each had a JNB-LUN-GIG segment, then the trips went to JFK (crew stayed) then stopped GIG then last leg was non-stop to Jo-burg or V.V. this is what my Dad gathered with the crew during the trip, making it a 12-13 day trip.

Thanks for the kind words about my mum, she was awesome, all 120lbs of her, a feisty terrier, B-

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