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bwvilla
Topic Author
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:27 pm

New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:54 pm

https://www.flyeos.it/en

Apparently, operations are intended to start in the summer of 2023, operating a fleet of amphibious aircraft to the Italian islands in the Tyrrhenian Sea, becoming the first Italian seaplane airline of the modern era.

Post-Covid many things will change, so it will be interested to see if this venture has accurately spotted a good opportunity.
 
airlinepeanuts
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:49 pm

I remember the all business class airline based in New York that operated from 2004-2008 named Eos.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 1570
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:56 pm

I looked at the website, but couldn't see *where* in the Tyrrhenian Sea they want to fly
Are we talking Elba-Pisa, Capri-Naples and Lipari-Catania ? Or do they have something else in mind ?

That said, 3 separate bases for a small airline seems extravagant
 
FCOTSTW
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:39 pm

Taken from the website: "Among us there are pilots who have worked for some of the best airlines in the world (Alitalia, Emirates, Etihad, Lufthansa, Qatar Airways)..."

Question: if you are a pilot for Emirates, Etihad, Lufthansa, or Qatar Airways, why do you want to work for a local seaplane company in Italy?????? Someone please explains this to me!!
 
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Polot
Posts: 12171
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:47 pm

FCOTSTW wrote:

Question: if you are a pilot for Emirates, Etihad, Lufthansa, or Qatar Airways, why do you want to work for a local seaplane company in Italy?????? Someone please explains this to me!!

If the pay is good and you live in the region why not. EK, EY, and QR in particular are not the best employers out there.
 
milhaus
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:19 pm

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:06 am

I think those pilots are already rich enough to spend rest of flying career with this hobby project
 
milhaus
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:19 pm

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:07 am

I think those pilots are already rich enough to spend rest of flying career with this hobby project
 
holczakker
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:04 am

Is this the same group which tries to sell the same concept every year in a different location (Croatia, the Balearics, Italy etc)?
 
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intrance
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:34 am

FCOTSTW wrote:
Question: if you are a pilot for Emirates, Etihad, Lufthansa, or Qatar Airways, why do you want to work for a local seaplane company in Italy?????? Someone please explains this to me!!
Some pilots became pilots for a love of flying. And in a lot of those airlines, there is barely any real flying left to do, it is all regulated to death. Flying is not monitoring the autopilot from 600ft after takeoff down to 200ft on the approach.
 
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stl07
Posts: 2912
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:46 am

intrance wrote:
FCOTSTW wrote:
Question: if you are a pilot for Emirates, Etihad, Lufthansa, or Qatar Airways, why do you want to work for a local seaplane company in Italy?????? Someone please explains this to me!!
Some pilots became pilots for a love of flying. And in a lot of those airlines, there is barely any real flying left to do, it is all regulated to death. Flying is not monitoring the autopilot from 600ft after takeoff down to 200ft on the approach.

Ding Ding Ding. I actually met with a cruise ship seaplane operator in Ketchikan Alaska who used to fly 747s. I'm sure whoever he used to fly with paid him much more than owning a seaplane company in America's poorest city. But I'm sure he's much happier now...
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2668
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:34 am

bwvilla wrote:
https://www.flyeos.it/en

Apparently, operations are intended to start in the summer of 2023, operating a fleet of amphibious aircraft to the Italian islands in the Tyrrhenian Sea, becoming the first Italian seaplane airline of the modern era.

Post-Covid many things will change, so it will be interested to see if this venture has accurately spotted a good opportunity.



Ain't gonna happen. NEVER. Not in a million years. This is extravagant wishful thinking at its very best, if not downright a situation where people are trying to crowdfunding a new venture, and then run away with the money.
The project and model is pure fantasy 100%. It will never work, especially in Italy, which is not a particularly wealthy country, island are perfectly well connected with frequent, fast, reliable and CHEAP boats. Capri, Ischia, Ponza, Elba...the Eolian Archipelago.. they are all easily accessible with fast boats/ferry service in literally a half-hour or so from the mainland....
But more importantly tax and labour costs are exorbitantly high in this country, so airlines with 10 seaters [would] have to charge an equally exponentially exorbitant fare - this is the 'final' bottom line. Ultimately taxation is the final wall against which most private ventures end up smashing their heads against. This is not the US, or any country that welcomes new ventures.....
This country has an alarmingly high rate of ventures failures (one of the highest of the western world) in the first few months of operation.
The complicated legislation, the draconian bureaucracy, and exorbitant taxation generally put at rest 'new airlines' even before they attempt to get their navigation certificate from the Government - no mean feat in itself!
You have no idea how difficult it is to set up a company (any company! even a one-man sandwich shop!) in this crazy country......
 
mrWright
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:41 am

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:10 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
bwvilla wrote:
https://www.flyeos.it/en

Apparently, operations are intended to start in the summer of 2023, operating a fleet of amphibious aircraft to the Italian islands in the Tyrrhenian Sea, becoming the first Italian seaplane airline of the modern era.

Post-Covid many things will change, so it will be interested to see if this venture has accurately spotted a good opportunity.



Ain't gonna happen. NEVER. Not in a million years. This is extravagant wishful thinking at its very best, if not downright a situation where people are trying to crowdfunding a new venture, and then run away with the money.
The project and model is pure fantasy 100%. It will never work, especially in Italy, which is not a particularly wealthy country, island are perfectly well connected with frequent, fast, reliable and CHEAP boats. Capri, Ischia, Ponza, Elba...the Eolian Archipelago.. they are all easily accessible with fast boats/ferry service in literally a half-hour or so from the mainland....
But more importantly tax and labour costs are exorbitantly high in this country, so airlines with 10 seaters [would] have to charge an equally exponentially exorbitant fare - this is the 'final' bottom line. Ultimately taxation is the final wall against which most private ventures end up smashing their heads against. This is not the US, or any country that welcomes new ventures.....
This country has an alarmingly high rate of ventures failures (one of the highest of the western world) in the first few months of operation.
The complicated legislation, the draconian bureaucracy, and exorbitant taxation generally put at rest 'new airlines' even before they attempt to get their navigation certificate from the Government - no mean feat in itself!
You have no idea how difficult it is to set up a company (any company! even a one-man sandwich shop!) in this crazy country......


What you are saying it is not completely correct. For instance, If you want to go to Capri you have to drive or catch a train to Naples and it is the same for the other destinations you mentioned.

None of us has seen the Business Plan so we can't really judge. Do you personally know anyone involved in this project?

I think it is a super-cool idea! Let's see if they'll manage to make it happen.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 14741
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:19 pm

To me the simple fact they mention "450 islands" means this isn't a serious project. How many of these islands are inhabited ? I'm sure some of them are even protected and you aren't allowed to step a foot on them.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2668
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:05 am

mrWright wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
bwvilla wrote:
https://www.flyeos.it/en

Apparently, operations are intended to start in the summer of 2023, operating a fleet of amphibious aircraft to the Italian islands in the Tyrrhenian Sea, becoming the first Italian seaplane airline of the modern era.

Post-Covid many things will change, so it will be interested to see if this venture has accurately spotted a good opportunity.



Ain't gonna happen. NEVER. Not in a million years. This is extravagant wishful thinking at its very best, if not downright a situation where people are trying to crowdfunding a new venture, and then run away with the money.
The project and model is pure fantasy 100%. It will never work, especially in Italy, which is not a particularly wealthy country, island are perfectly well connected with frequent, fast, reliable and CHEAP boats. Capri, Ischia, Ponza, Elba...the Eolian Archipelago.. they are all easily accessible with fast boats/ferry service in literally a half-hour or so from the mainland....
But more importantly tax and labour costs are exorbitantly high in this country, so airlines with 10 seaters [would] have to charge an equally exponentially exorbitant fare - this is the 'final' bottom line. Ultimately taxation is the final wall against which most private ventures end up smashing their heads against. This is not the US, or any country that welcomes new ventures.....
This country has an alarmingly high rate of ventures failures (one of the highest of the western world) in the first few months of operation.
The complicated legislation, the draconian bureaucracy, and exorbitant taxation generally put at rest 'new airlines' even before they attempt to get their navigation certificate from the Government - no mean feat in itself!
You have no idea how difficult it is to set up a company (any company! even a one-man sandwich shop!) in this crazy country......


What you are saying it is not completely correct. For instance, If you want to go to Capri you have to drive or catch a train to Naples and it is the same for the other destinations you mentioned.

None of us has seen the Business Plan so we can't really judge. Do you personally know anyone involved in this project?

I think it is a super-cool idea! Let's see if they'll manage to make it happen.


Yeah, but really, no one would ever fly to Capri from -say- Milan.... maybe some uber-rich on a private jet if Capri had an airport, but you're not going to fill a 9-seater plane from Milan or Venice, and fly it over 700kms of land to get to tiny little Capri... it's a silly idea.
Capri you also generally combine with Naples, and perhaps even the Amalfi Coast, or Sorrento.... And in any case you'd be hard pressed to find a better proposition that taking a first class 'Frecciarossa' High Speed train (probably Europe's best and most convenient high speed link), that gets you to Naples in little over 70 mins from central Rome, and then connect to a fast hydrofoil to Capri... and all for less than 100$??

And bear in mind that Capri is the ONE main island for the wealthy international travellers (the one that everybody knows!), and all the other islands like Ponza, Elba, the Eolian Archipelago, are mostly the summer playground of Italians, who are really not that rich and would never fly to any of these islands, trust me.

Not saying this is not a super cool idea, but reality soon sinks in in a country where people have little disposable income, and taxation, fuel, insurance and personnel costs are probably the highest in Western Europe... Not to mention getting permission to fly in and out of marine parks and near protected shorelines, or above millionaires' (and politicians) villas...


The business plan? What business plan!? There is NO business plan.... Clustering in one big group ALL of the Tyrrhenian sea islands, which belong to different Regions and geo-social realities -and which literally have ZERO in common- already tells you how far-fetched and unrealistic this idea is.
Bear in mind that ALL of these few and scattered islands are not very distant from the coast, and all are very well (and cheaply!) connected to the mainland by frequent, fast boat service.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2668
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:14 am

Aesma wrote:
To me the simple fact they mention "450 islands" means this isn't a serious project. How many of these islands are inhabited ? I'm sure some of them are even protected and you aren't allowed to step a foot on them.


Exactly. There are NOT 450 island in Italy. :banghead:

You can literally count those which are inhabited -as well as a meaningful tourist destination at the same time- on one hand!

The rest are tiny specs, and mostly frequented by us poor Italians only, and barely for the short summer season!! :rotfl: :rotfl:

This is not Greece. If you 'exclude' Sicily and Sardinia -which are "islands" (well, technically, being so big they resemble more a mini-continent!!haha!!) 99,99% of Italy is the mainland.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 1570
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:28 am

Many Italians with limited money wanting to visit Capri will indeed take a train to Naples and then a hydrofoil

However...
Capri also attracts many people from across Europe who are quite wealthy but not very wealthy, and who cannot afford a private jet. They will fly on a commercial passenger flight to Naples airport, maybe in business class. They then can either
1 - Take a taxi to the maritime port and then hydrofoil
Or
2 - Fly by seaplane direct from Naples airport to Capri harbour (yes, some seaplanes can land in the water and on a runway)

You don't need many wealthy people to fill those seaplanes. The people with limited cash are unlikely to be the target audience of Eos
The flights with Silver Air between Elba and both Milan and Lugano suggests there may be some wealthy people who will pay to save travel time.

Some people will even take the seaplane, just because it's a decidedly more glamorous and ostentatious way to travel to/from Capri...

The problem however is what to do during the winter when the number of tourists is low
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 26691
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:24 pm

EOS in engineering is an acronym meaning End of Signal, not a great name for an airline, IMO.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14741
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:10 pm

End Of Sale is also common.
 
SEA
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:21 pm

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:25 pm

stl07 wrote:
intrance wrote:
FCOTSTW wrote:
Question: if you are a pilot for Emirates, Etihad, Lufthansa, or Qatar Airways, why do you want to work for a local seaplane company in Italy?????? Someone please explains this to me!!
Some pilots became pilots for a love of flying. And in a lot of those airlines, there is barely any real flying left to do, it is all regulated to death. Flying is not monitoring the autopilot from 600ft after takeoff down to 200ft on the approach.

Ding Ding Ding. I actually met with a cruise ship seaplane operator in Ketchikan Alaska who used to fly 747s. I'm sure whoever he used to fly with paid him much more than owning a seaplane company in America's poorest city. But I'm sure he's much happier now...


Yep, when I lived in Alaska, quite a large amount of the pilot population were people who either a) flew out of necessity b) flew to gain hours to gain employment at a regional and then move to a major carrier or c) flew mainline carriers for years and made their money and wanted to get back to simple joys of FLYING :D :D :D
 
PvdE
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:21 pm

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:28 pm

I would expect this to be a potential customer for Lilium.
 
Canuck600
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:34 pm

I'll bet if you asked the majority of pilots who've had to work their way up to the airlines they'll say the best years of their flying lives was when they were flying bush planes or other small aircraft.
 
mrWright
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:41 am

Re: New Italian seaplane airline EOS to be launched

Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:35 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
mrWright wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:


Ain't gonna happen. NEVER. Not in a million years. This is extravagant wishful thinking at its very best, if not downright a situation where people are trying to crowdfunding a new venture, and then run away with the money.
The project and model is pure fantasy 100%. It will never work, especially in Italy, which is not a particularly wealthy country, island are perfectly well connected with frequent, fast, reliable and CHEAP boats. Capri, Ischia, Ponza, Elba...the Eolian Archipelago.. they are all easily accessible with fast boats/ferry service in literally a half-hour or so from the mainland....
But more importantly tax and labour costs are exorbitantly high in this country, so airlines with 10 seaters [would] have to charge an equally exponentially exorbitant fare - this is the 'final' bottom line. Ultimately taxation is the final wall against which most private ventures end up smashing their heads against. This is not the US, or any country that welcomes new ventures.....
This country has an alarmingly high rate of ventures failures (one of the highest of the western world) in the first few months of operation.
The complicated legislation, the draconian bureaucracy, and exorbitant taxation generally put at rest 'new airlines' even before they attempt to get their navigation certificate from the Government - no mean feat in itself!
You have no idea how difficult it is to set up a company (any company! even a one-man sandwich shop!) in this crazy country......


What you are saying it is not completely correct. For instance, If you want to go to Capri you have to drive or catch a train to Naples and it is the same for the other destinations you mentioned.

None of us has seen the Business Plan so we can't really judge. Do you personally know anyone involved in this project?

I think it is a super-cool idea! Let's see if they'll manage to make it happen.


Yeah, but really, no one would ever fly to Capri from -say- Milan.... maybe some uber-rich on a private jet if Capri had an airport, but you're not going to fill a 9-seater plane from Milan or Venice, and fly it over 700kms of land to get to tiny little Capri... it's a silly idea.
Capri you also generally combine with Naples, and perhaps even the Amalfi Coast, or Sorrento.... And in any case you'd be hard pressed to find a better proposition that taking a first class 'Frecciarossa' High Speed train (probably Europe's best and most convenient high speed link), that gets you to Naples in little over 70 mins from central Rome, and then connect to a fast hydrofoil to Capri... and all for less than 100$??

And bear in mind that Capri is the ONE main island for the wealthy international travellers (the one that everybody knows!), and all the other islands like Ponza, Elba, the Eolian Archipelago, are mostly the summer playground of Italians, who are really not that rich and would never fly to any of these islands, trust me.

Not saying this is not a super cool idea, but reality soon sinks in in a country where people have little disposable income, and taxation, fuel, insurance and personnel costs are probably the highest in Western Europe... Not to mention getting permission to fly in and out of marine parks and near protected shorelines, or above millionaires' (and politicians) villas...


The business plan? What business plan!? There is NO business plan.... Clustering in one big group ALL of the Tyrrhenian sea islands, which belong to different Regions and geo-social realities -and which literally have ZERO in common- already tells you how far-fetched and unrealistic this idea is.
Bear in mind that ALL of these few and scattered islands are not very distant from the coast, and all are very well (and cheaply!) connected to the mainland by frequent, fast boat service.


I don’t think they will fly longer than 60-70 minutes. Milan - Capri is definitely too long If you consider the fuel needed on top of the payload.

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