Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
turjo101
Topic Author
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:44 am

French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:55 am

https://www.flightradar24.com/FBU719/292fad6e

Any idea why the French Bee is flying to YYZ?
 
ryan78
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:29 am

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:08 am

turjo101 wrote:
https://www.flightradar24.com/FBU719/292fad6e

Any idea why the French Bee is flying to YYZ?


Interesting routing for sure! Searched the flight number and it looks to be a scheduled service, ORY-YYZ-PPT-YYZ-ORY. It is bookable on French Bee's website, a whopping 21hrs15min on board with a fuel stop in YYZ.

Unfortunately YYZ-PPT-YYZ is not bookable.
 
User avatar
adamblang
Posts: 1419
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:47 pm

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:58 am

First result in Google for "french bee toronto":

French Bee moves Canadian stopover to Toronto - ch-aviation

French Bee (BF, Paris Orly) has announced that all of its flights between Paris Orly and Papeete will operate with a refuelling stopover at Toronto Pearson airport rather than the usual Vancouver Int'l through October 4, 2021.

The carrier did not provide any rationale for the change. Flightradar24 ADS-B data indicates the first flight to use the new routing did so on July 30, 2021.
 
raylee67
Posts: 991
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:05 am

Are passengers allowed to get off the plane during the tech stop at YYZ? Which terminal does the plane park at? Does it actually park at the terminal or at a remote stand?
 
hoons90
Posts: 3879
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:46 am

raylee67 wrote:
Are passengers allowed to get off the plane during the tech stop at YYZ? Which terminal does the plane park at? Does it actually park at the terminal or at a remote stand?


They park at T3 C gates. All pax remain on board. Unlike at LAX (AF, TN) or SFO (BF), pax don't have to clear immigration at YYZ enroute to PPT v.v.

Anyone can just walk out of the departure lounge at YYZ out onto the street, so deplaning wouldn't be permissible without requiring all pax to clear immigration.
 
HBJZA
Posts: 354
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:23 pm

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:40 am

Does anyone know how they change crew en-route and how long each crew is staying at each station? Does the crew stopping in YYZ get the same plane they left that turned in PPT? This kind of flight is not really crew efficient for the airline.
 
COA75
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:18 am

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:24 am

hoons90 wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
Are passengers allowed to get off the plane during the tech stop at YYZ? Which terminal does the plane park at? Does it actually park at the terminal or at a remote stand?


They park at T3 C gates. All pax remain on board. Unlike at LAX (AF, TN) or SFO (BF), pax don't have to clear immigration at YYZ enroute to PPT v.v.

Anyone can just walk out of the departure lounge at YYZ out onto the street, so deplaning wouldn't be permissible without requiring all pax to clear immigration.


I have no idea what the situation is like in YYZ, but apparently I'm YVR there is (was?) a part at the end of the internal terminal partitioned off so pax get off there. There are a few YouTube videos online showing this, this one was the first I found: https://youtu.be/q9ID0mouy2g (check out from app. 1:30:00)
 
User avatar
mooseofspruce
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu May 25, 2017 10:28 am

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:10 am

The YVR technical stops moved to YYC initially on a temporary basis supposedly because of fueling issues at YVR, whether it was a fuel shortage or something else. French bee's COVID-19 page by late July specified all PPT flights would stop at YYZ each way, but as noted there was no specific reason given, so we can only speculate.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 12261
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:20 am

Almost 20 hours on a French Bee A350 without any ability to get off the plane must be pure torture, although I’m sure they are not filled to capacity at the moment.
 
9252fly
Posts: 1214
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:54 pm

The tech stop in YVR was better as it is exactly mid-point on the routing. To be more precise the difference is 42nm.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=CDG-YVR-PP ... =wls&DU=nm
 
CanadianNorth
Posts: 3287
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:41 am

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:47 pm

YVR makes more sense on a map, but I've heard they've been having issues with their supply of JET-A lately.

The rumor I've heard is fuel there is available, but they're having issues with transporting it to the airport, so the supply on hand is not as much as usual and thus it's being priced accordingly, so operators have been trying to uplift some extra fuel at other stops and only buy what they really need at the Vancouver stops.
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 5244
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:07 pm

Air France and Air Tahiti Nui do the same via Canada as they cannot operate via historic LAX stopover during COVID times.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:38 pm

COA75 wrote:

I have no idea what the situation is like in YYZ, but apparently I'm YVR there is (was?) a part at the end of the internal terminal partitioned off so pax get off there. There are a few YouTube videos online showing this, this one was the first I found: https://youtu.be/q9ID0mouy2g (check out from app. 1:30:00)


This is correct.

They should move the stopover point to YUL, as it can accomodate the transiting passengers in a partitioned off section as well, same as YVR. It already does so with RJ on the DTW tag, and did with CA when they flew from YUL to HAV. Plus no JET-A issues.

YVR seems to be having a lot of issues lately, not just fuel. Standby power for runway ops has been unserviceable for several months now as well, rendering their runways as "non precision only". Meaning higher minimums on final approach, and no CAT II/III approaches available.

https://extranetapps.navcanada.ca/ois/ois.aspx

Scroll down to "outages and runway closures" section.
Last edited by Thenoflyzone on Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 7710
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:46 pm

I saw that exact flight fly over me in Moab,UT a few days ago.
 
User avatar
CrewBunk
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:12 am

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:06 am

Thenoflyzone wrote:
They should move the stopover point to YUL, as it can accomodate the transiting passengers in a partitioned off section as well, same as YVR. It already does so with RJ on the DTW tag, and did with CA when they flew from YUL to HAV.

Or just move to Terminal One in YYZ.

In transit International to International connections are common. A large transit lounge with dozens of restaurants, stores, bars, etc make the transit very comfortable.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:06 am

CrewBunk wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
They should move the stopover point to YUL, as it can accomodate the transiting passengers in a partitioned off section as well, same as YVR. It already does so with RJ on the DTW tag, and did with CA when they flew from YUL to HAV.

Or just move to Terminal One in YYZ.

In transit International to International connections are common. A large transit lounge with dozens of restaurants, stores, bars, etc make the transit very comfortable.


The fact they’re not in T1 already probably means AC or the GTAA isn’t letting them. Lack of avbl gates at that time maybe?
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10060
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:32 pm

9252fly wrote:
The tech stop in YVR was better as it is exactly mid-point on the routing. To be more precise the difference is 42nm.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=CDG-YVR-PP ... =wls&DU=nm


That may be best for fuel efficiency but it's not necessarily otherwise ideal. Sleep timing, for example. An A350 ought to have LOTS of flexibility in where they position a fuel stop.

According to Great Circle Mapper, Winnipeg is only a 1 mile diversion from a great circle route. How many occasions do the French get to visit Winnipeg? :)
 
User avatar
CrewBunk
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:12 am

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:55 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
According to Great Circle Mapper, Winnipeg is only a 1 mile diversion from a great circle route. How many occasions do the French get to visit Winnipeg? :)


Something evil within me would love to see a French Bee crew (or an Air Tahiti Nui crew going the other way) enjoying a long layover in Winnipeg in February when it’s -40°. ;)
 
raylee67
Posts: 991
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:51 pm

Polot wrote:
Almost 20 hours on a French Bee A350 without any ability to get off the plane must be pure torture, although I’m sure they are not filled to capacity at the moment.

Similar situation was unfortunately quite routine back in the early 2000s. Back then, non-stop flight between East Coast and East Asia beyond Korea and Japan was impossible. Cathay Pacific flew its HKG-YYZ route with a tech stop at ANC. After 9/11, passengers were no longer allowed to deplane at ANC for a few years. I flew that route a lot, on an A340-300. It took over 19 hrs westbound. The plane leaves YYZ at around 1am local time, arrives at ANC about 5 hrs later. You are tired and mostly asleep, and you are woken up for the landing to adjust your seats, etc. The A/C is then turned off for the refueling but the cabin light would be all turned on. The air is stuffed with the smell of gas with minimal circulation. You are sleepy but you can't sleep because of the light and you know the plane will leave in about 90 min. The worst part is you know there is still 12 hrs ahead!
 
hoons90
Posts: 3879
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:37 pm

raylee67 wrote:
Polot wrote:
Almost 20 hours on a French Bee A350 without any ability to get off the plane must be pure torture, although I’m sure they are not filled to capacity at the moment.

Similar situation was unfortunately quite routine back in the early 2000s. Back then, non-stop flight between East Coast and East Asia beyond Korea and Japan was impossible. Cathay Pacific flew its HKG-YYZ route with a tech stop at ANC. After 9/11, passengers were no longer allowed to deplane at ANC for a few years. I flew that route a lot, on an A340-300. It took over 19 hrs westbound. The plane leaves YYZ at around 1am local time, arrives at ANC about 5 hrs later. You are tired and mostly asleep, and you are woken up for the landing to adjust your seats, etc. The A/C is then turned off for the refueling but the cabin light would be all turned on. The air is stuffed with the smell of gas with minimal circulation. You are sleepy but you can't sleep because of the light and you know the plane will leave in about 90 min. The worst part is you know there is still 12 hrs ahead!


It was worse when CX829 was routed via YVR for a short time back in 2004, adding an extra 600km or so to the journey compared to the ANC stop. Despite YVR being in the same country as YYZ, we did not deplane. And those late 90's era CX Y seats with the 1st gen PTVs were rock hard.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 12261
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:41 pm

raylee67 wrote:
Polot wrote:
Almost 20 hours on a French Bee A350 without any ability to get off the plane must be pure torture, although I’m sure they are not filled to capacity at the moment.

Similar situation was unfortunately quite routine back in the early 2000s. Back then, non-stop flight between East Coast and East Asia beyond Korea and Japan was impossible. Cathay Pacific flew its HKG-YYZ route with a tech stop at ANC. After 9/11, passengers were no longer allowed to deplane at ANC for a few years. I flew that route a lot, on an A340-300. It took over 19 hrs westbound. The plane leaves YYZ at around 1am local time, arrives at ANC about 5 hrs later. You are tired and mostly asleep, and you are woken up for the landing to adjust your seats, etc. The A/C is then turned off for the refueling but the cabin light would be all turned on. The air is stuffed with the smell of gas with minimal circulation. You are sleepy but you can't sleep because of the light and you know the plane will leave in about 90 min. The worst part is you know there is still 12 hrs ahead!

My statement was less being stuck on any aircraft that long but on French Bee’s specifically. They are one of the operators that configures their A350s with 10Y 16” seats instead of the standard 18” 9Y product.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14777
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:38 pm

How about this one ?

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/tx5717

PPT-PTP-ORY

Flight chartered to evacuate 8 ventilated COVID patients, with 37 medical staff and 2 tons of medical hardware over 16000Km, a record. The PTP stop was not needed for fuelling reasons but to replace 18 oxygen cylinders with a 60 000 litres capacity. The cost is eye watering.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10060
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: French Bee: PPT-YYZ?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:48 pm

hoons90 wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
Cathay Pacific flew its HKG-YYZ route with a tech stop at ANC. After 9/11, passengers were no longer allowed to deplane at ANC for a few years. I flew that route a lot, on an A340-300. It took over 19 hrs westbound. The plane leaves YYZ at around 1am local time, arrives at ANC about 5 hrs later.


It was worse when CX829 was routed via YVR for a short time back in 2004, adding an extra 600km or so to the journey compared to the ANC stop. Despite YVR being in the same country as YYZ, we did not deplane. And those late 90's era CX Y seats with the 1st gen PTVs were rock hard.


Oh, I remember YYZ-YVR-HKG. Not fondly. At least I was doing it in J. Breaking up sleep at 3 or 4 in the morning is just brutal.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos