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Opus99
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Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:40 pm

Emirates orders 5 777-300ERSF

Expecting more of these in the months and years to come.

Cargo market is not going to be easy for any new freighter that goes for both the 350F AND 778F. Which by the way I think are both great freighters on paper

https://twitter.com/leehamnews/status/1 ... 73089?s=21
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:44 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Cargo market is not going to be easy for any new freighter that goes for both the 350F AND 778F.

Which is probably why this is becoming a thing.

After all, MD11 did fine as a freighter against the advent of the 772F, as the DC/MD10 did against the advent of the 763F.

Heck, with so many 77Ws in stock, I'd say it might be the A350F and 778F that have more to worry about, in everything except heavy-lift.
 
oldJoe
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:28 pm

An airline that has always looked out for a young fleet in the past is now buying used ones? The pocket must be pretty empty there !
 
Pinto
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:35 pm

oldJoe wrote:
An airline that has always looked out for a young fleet in the past is now buying used ones? The pocket must be pretty empty there !


For their passenger side yes, but for cargo it is a different story. EK has a huge fleet of 777s so it would make since for their cargo subsidiary to fly mostly 77Fs. However there are probably few to none available on the used market so they would have to order new. Now with the 773F being an option it would be stupid to choose anything different. Heck I wouldn't be surprised to see the aircraft come from EK
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:42 pm

I concur the 777-300ERSF (and any other conversions) should be popular. The MD-11F is a great analogy. Many airframes will become available.

The discussion in 2019 was where the conversion stock would come from and would available stock be too expensive to consider for conversion. Now, not an issue. :cry2:

It just makes sense for EK to cheaply expand cargo ops. I expect them to order many more conversions.

Lightsaber
 
Cardude2
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:25 am

Pinto wrote:
oldJoe wrote:
An airline that has always looked out for a young fleet in the past is now buying used ones? The pocket must be pretty empty there !


For their passenger side yes, but for cargo it is a different story. EK has a huge fleet of 777s so it would make since for their cargo subsidiary to fly mostly 77Fs. However there are probably few to none available on the used market so they would have to order new. Now with the 773F being an option it would be stupid to choose anything different. Heck I wouldn't be surprised to see the aircraft come from EK


one note, emirates recently sold a 777f to Luftansa cargo. its reg is D-ALFJ
 
CALMSP
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:16 am

Cardude2 wrote:
Pinto wrote:
oldJoe wrote:
An airline that has always looked out for a young fleet in the past is now buying used ones? The pocket must be pretty empty there !


For their passenger side yes, but for cargo it is a different story. EK has a huge fleet of 777s so it would make since for their cargo subsidiary to fly mostly 77Fs. However there are probably few to none available on the used market so they would have to order new. Now with the 773F being an option it would be stupid to choose anything different. Heck I wouldn't be surprised to see the aircraft come from EK


one note, emirates recently sold a 777f to Luftansa cargo. its reg is D-ALFJ


which I think many were flabbergasted by.
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:23 am

Cardude2 wrote:
Pinto wrote:
oldJoe wrote:
An airline that has always looked out for a young fleet in the past is now buying used ones? The pocket must be pretty empty there !


For their passenger side yes, but for cargo it is a different story. EK has a huge fleet of 777s so it would make since for their cargo subsidiary to fly mostly 77Fs. However there are probably few to none available on the used market so they would have to order new. Now with the 773F being an option it would be stupid to choose anything different. Heck I wouldn't be surprised to see the aircraft come from EK


one note, emirates recently sold a 777f to Luftansa cargo. its reg is D-ALFJ


It appears that A6-EFF (now D-ALFJ) was a lease return to DAE Capital, who then re-leased the B77F to Lufthansa Cargo.

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... rgo/ep6d56

DAE Capital, one of the largest commercial aircraft lessors in the world, is based in Dubai, but does not appear to be directly affiliated with EK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai_Aer ... Enterprise

As for the B773ERSF's, I could see EK using these to start to beef-up their cargo operations, maybe eventually becoming a competitor to DHL, FedEx and UPS. They have a great, under-utilized airport in DWC that could support round-the-clock cargo flights, with plenty of space for ramp parking and sorting/distribution operations.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:44 am

With 838 777-300ERs sold, 827 have been delivered. [11 unfilled orders (one for CZ, two for SU and three for TG, another five for PIA which most probably would get cancelled)], around 16 -20 scrapped, there are plenty of feedstock in the used market from EK itself (146 at its peak). EY, VA, GA, NZ has shed or planning to shed their fleet too. This will pretty much dent the viable studies of A350F, glad to be proven wrong though.
 
Niloko
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:40 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
With 838 777-300ERs sold, 827 have been delivered. [11 unfilled orders (one for CZ, two for SU and three for TG, another five for PIA which most probably would get cancelled)], around 16 -20 scrapped, there are plenty of feedstock in the used market from EK itself (146 at its peak). EY, VA, GA, NZ has shed or planning to shed their fleet too. This will pretty much dent the viable studies of A350F, glad to be proven wrong though.

16-20 scrapped? There's only 1 ever scrapped iirc. Maybe you mean 16-20 retired by airlines or you mean 20 planes of 777 family have been scrapped
 
Niloko
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:42 am

77WFs should be a hit especially among 77LF users since these 2 share a lot of commonality, even more than what 773 and 77W do.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:14 am

Niloko wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
With 838 777-300ERs sold, 827 have been delivered. [11 unfilled orders (one for CZ, two for SU and three for TG, another five for PIA which most probably would get cancelled)], around 16 -20 scrapped, there are plenty of feedstock in the used market from EK itself (146 at its peak). EY, VA, GA, NZ has shed or planning to shed their fleet too. This will pretty much dent the viable studies of A350F, glad to be proven wrong though.

16-20 scrapped? There's only 1 ever scrapped iirc. Maybe you mean 16-20 retired by airlines or you mean 20 planes of 777 family have been scrapped

I mean the latter, most of Jet Airways's 9 B77W are heading for scrappers, three are done for, more due soon due to years of improper storage. ANA have retired 13 collectively last year and this year, all of them are earmarked for scrapping or have been scrapped.

Image
JA756A & JA757A B.777-300ER, ANA, Mojave 02-28-21 by DUNCAN KIRK, on Flickr
 
DCA350
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:29 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Niloko wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
With 838 777-300ERs sold, 827 have been delivered. [11 unfilled orders (one for CZ, two for SU and three for TG, another five for PIA which most probably would get cancelled)], around 16 -20 scrapped, there are plenty of feedstock in the used market from EK itself (146 at its peak). EY, VA, GA, NZ has shed or planning to shed their fleet too. This will pretty much dent the viable studies of A350F, glad to be proven wrong though.

16-20 scrapped? There's only 1 ever scrapped iirc. Maybe you mean 16-20 retired by airlines or you mean 20 planes of 777 family have been scrapped

I mean the latter, most of Jet Airways's 9 B77W are heading for scrappers, three are done for, more due soon due to years of improper storage. ANA have retired 13 collectively last year and this year, all of them are earmarked for scrapping or have been scrapped.

Image
JA756A & JA757A B.777-300ER, ANA, Mojave 02-28-21 by DUNCAN KIRK, on Flickr


Is it just me or those look like the 300s not Ws
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:37 am

Something to ponder about, this sort of deal would not have been possible in this direct manner just a few years ago. Directly dealing with an IAI program would had been taboo back then.
 
JohanTally
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:39 am

DCA350 wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Niloko wrote:
16-20 scrapped? There's only 1 ever scrapped iirc. Maybe you mean 16-20 retired by airlines or you mean 20 planes of 777 family have been scrapped

I mean the latter, most of Jet Airways's 9 B77W are heading for scrappers, three are done for, more due soon due to years of improper storage. ANA have retired 13 collectively last year and this year, all of them are earmarked for scrapping or have been scrapped.

Image
JA756A & JA757A B.777-300ER, ANA, Mojave 02-28-21 by DUNCAN KIRK, on Flickr


Is it just me or those look like the 300s not Ws

You are correct those are 773s with PW engines and no raked wingtips
 
airzona11
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:54 am

This seems to make total sense for EK.

oldJoe wrote:
An airline that has always looked out for a young fleet in the past is now buying used ones? The pocket must be pretty empty there !


Depreciation, leases, maintenance etc is what drives that. They rode their 772s/A332s etc very hard for the most part.
 
Niloko
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:56 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Niloko wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
With 838 777-300ERs sold, 827 have been delivered. [11 unfilled orders (one for CZ, two for SU and three for TG, another five for PIA which most probably would get cancelled)], around 16 -20 scrapped, there are plenty of feedstock in the used market from EK itself (146 at its peak). EY, VA, GA, NZ has shed or planning to shed their fleet too. This will pretty much dent the viable studies of A350F, glad to be proven wrong though.

16-20 scrapped? There's only 1 ever scrapped iirc. Maybe you mean 16-20 retired by airlines or you mean 20 planes of 777 family have been scrapped

I mean the latter, most of Jet Airways's 9 B77W are heading for scrappers, three are done for, more due soon due to years of improper storage. ANA have retired 13 collectively last year and this year, all of them are earmarked for scrapping or have been scrapped.

Image
JA756A & JA757A B.777-300ER, ANA, Mojave 02-28-21 by DUNCAN KIRK, on Flickr

Mistakening 77W and 773?

Also, I just checked and as of August 2021, only 3 777-300ER have ever been scrapped.
 
xwb777
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:38 am

Pinto wrote:
oldJoe wrote:
An airline that has always looked out for a young fleet in the past is now buying used ones? The pocket must be pretty empty there !


For their passenger side yes, but for cargo it is a different story. EK has a huge fleet of 777s so it would make since for their cargo subsidiary to fly mostly 77Fs. However there are probably few to none available on the used market so they would have to order new. Now with the 773F being an option it would be stupid to choose anything different. Heck I wouldn't be surprised to see the aircraft come from EK


I think the aircraft will be from EK’s fleet. The old 777s, -EB series.
 
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frigatebird
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:42 am

xwb777 wrote:
Pinto wrote:
oldJoe wrote:
An airline that has always looked out for a young fleet in the past is now buying used ones? The pocket must be pretty empty there !


For their passenger side yes, but for cargo it is a different story. EK has a huge fleet of 777s so it would make since for their cargo subsidiary to fly mostly 77Fs. However there are probably few to none available on the used market so they would have to order new. Now with the 773F being an option it would be stupid to choose anything different. Heck I wouldn't be surprised to see the aircraft come from EK


I think the aircraft will be from EK’s fleet. The old 777s, -EB series.


Genuine question: does EK own 77W's? I thought almost all of their fleet is leased.

Scott Hamiltion tweets the order is placed with the IAI [email protected] JV. So the aircraft may actually come from EY (which I thought owns at least some of their 77W, but please correct me if I'm wrong).
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:42 am

Niloko wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Niloko wrote:
16-20 scrapped? There's only 1 ever scrapped iirc. Maybe you mean 16-20 retired by airlines or you mean 20 planes of 777 family have been scrapped

I mean the latter, most of Jet Airways's 9 B77W are heading for scrappers, three are done for, more due soon due to years of improper storage. ANA have retired 13 collectively last year and this year, all of them are earmarked for scrapping or have been scrapped.

Image
JA756A & JA757A B.777-300ER, ANA, Mojave 02-28-21 by DUNCAN KIRK, on Flickr

Mistakening 77W and 773?

Also, I just checked and as of August 2021, only 3 777-300ER have ever been scrapped.

Sorry for wrong photo, but there are indeed 13 ANA B77W in MHV now being scrapped/mothballed or whatever you call it, but not updated in airliners.net. Some may escape choppers, but chance maybe low. I don't think ANA has sold any of their owned B77W to any one. Glad to be proven wrong.

You can see one here JA733A https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10 ... 7690999041

Others at MHV includes:
1. JA731A 28281 / 488
2. JA732A 27038 / 511
3. JA733A 32648 / 529 (above photo)
4. JA734A 32649 / 557
5. JA735A 34892 / 571
6. JA736A 34893 / 589
7. JA777A 32650 / 593
8. JA778A 32651 / 606
9. JA779A 34894 / 631
10. JA780A 34895 / 639
11. JA781A 27041 / 667
12. JA782A 33416 / 691
13. JA783A 27940 / 737

This photo shows four ANA B77W on death row: https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=102 ... 0712822738
Last edited by RoyalBrunei757 on Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
xwb777
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:46 am

frigatebird wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Pinto wrote:

For their passenger side yes, but for cargo it is a different story. EK has a huge fleet of 777s so it would make since for their cargo subsidiary to fly mostly 77Fs. However there are probably few to none available on the used market so they would have to order new. Now with the 773F being an option it would be stupid to choose anything different. Heck I wouldn't be surprised to see the aircraft come from EK


I think the aircraft will be from EK’s fleet. The old 777s, -EB series.


Genuine question: does EK own 77W's? I thought almost all of their fleet is leased.

Scott Hamiltion tweets the order is placed with the IAI [email protected] JV. So the aircraft may actually come from EY (which I thought owns at least some of their 77W, but please correct me if I'm wrong).


As per Emirates financial report 2020-2021, Emirates owns 72 B777.
https://cdn.ek.aero/downloads/ek/pdfs/r ... t_2021.pdf (Page 77)
 
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frigatebird
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:07 am

Oh wow, EK does have quite some potential aircraft for conversion then. Thanks.
 
na
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:29 pm

Perhaps better than to scrap them.
There are many surplus 77Ws, the ANA planes and Jet Airways scrapped and rotten ones only the tip of an iceberg, and many more will be returned to lessors continually. By years end Etihad is retiring all their 77Ws, 19 frames, with Garuda´s 10 frames close on its heel. Many, many more than the cargo market could swallow.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:12 pm

EK has moved away from its "lowest number of types and accept some abuse" model on the pax side with its 789 and 359 orders.

These 300ERFs suggest a similar view for freighters, supplementing the existing fleet with less capable frames where they are sufficient for purpose. This does not shut the door on either 778F or 359F as 777F replacements at a later date
 
wjcandee
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Re: Emirates orders 777-300ERSF

Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:52 pm

Pinto wrote:
Heck I wouldn't be surprised to see the aircraft come from EK


Yep, they're converting their own aircraft.

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