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dcajet
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QANTAS to operate its second longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:03 am

On October 5, QANTAS is planning to operate a one time non stop flight between Buenos Aires EZE and Darwin; Australia, with a 787-9, over a distance of 14,683 kilometers (9,124 miles), which is a record for the Australian company in flights operated with Boeing 787s.

The purpose of the flight is to repatriate Australian citizens that have been in Argentina since the beginning of the pandemic and that up to now were refused entry back into their own country.

QF014 EZE 12:25 DRW 18:45+1 789

Image

https://www.aviacionline.com/2021/09/qa ... nos-aires/
Last edited by atcsundevil on Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited title for clarity
 
smi0006
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:08 am

For those unaware Darwin now has one of the Australian governments dedicated quarantine facilities - and is used for repatriation flights, by the government and QF. Other major AU cities have hotel quarantine for commercial services.

Be interesting to see a summary of all the repeat flights DRW has had over the last 18months!

That’s one southerly flight!!
 
NYKiwi
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:26 am

Wouldn't this flight be ETOPS restricted so wouldn't go over Antartica??
 
dcajet
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:55 am

NYKiwi wrote:
Wouldn't this flight be ETOPS restricted so wouldn't go over Antartica??


Actual route may not take it directly over Antarctica. Last and first diversion points over the Southern Seas are Ushuaia and Christchurch, so some form of the most direct route within ETOPS range of those two points taking into account wx conditions on that day, I'd think...
 
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zeke
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:55 am

dcajet wrote:
On October 5, QANTAS is planning to operate a one time non stop flight between Buenos Aires EZE and Darwin; Australia, with a 787-9, over a distance of 14,683 kilometers (9,124 miles), which is a record for the Australian company in flights operated with Boeing 787s.

The purpose of the flight is to repatriate Australian citizens that have been in Argentina since the beginning of the pandemic and that up to now were refused entry back into their own country.

QF014 EZE 12:25 DRW 18:45+1 789

Image

https://www.aviacionline.com/2021/09/qa ... nos-aires/


No idea why anyone would use statute miles as a measurement of distance on an international aviation forum. The great circle distance is under 8000 nm, the city pair is close enough the same as LHR-PER. QF have operated flights in excess of 9000 mm.

NYKiwi wrote:
Wouldn't this flight be ETOPS restricted so wouldn't go over Antartica??


I think CASA restricts them no further than 65S.
 
dcajet
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:07 am

zeke wrote:

No idea why anyone would use statute miles as a measurement of distance on an international aviation forum. The great circle distance is under 8000 nm, the city pair is close enough the same as LHR-PER. QF have operated flights in excess of 9000 mm.


Bit pedantic? Not everyone on here is a pilot like you are so be a bit more generous, will you? At the end of the day there is nothing incorrect with the aforementioned distances; they are just in a denomination you would prefer not to use.

As to the distances, it clearly states "the longest nonstop flight with a 787-9". Again, nothing inaccurate with that assertion.
 
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zeke
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:12 am

dcajet wrote:
At the end of the day there is nothing incorrect with the aforementioned distances; they are just in a denomination you would prefer not to use.


Except they made no reference to statute miles, this is an aviation forum, not a North American automotive forum.

dcajet wrote:

As to the distances, it clearly states "the longest nonstop flight with a 787-9". Again, nothing inaccurate with that assertion.


Apart from not being true https://www.qantas.com/travelinsider/en ... nrise.html
 
dcajet
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:29 am

zeke wrote:


I stand corrected, you are right on this one. Moderators, could the tittle be amended accordingly - as this would then be the second longest non stop flight with the 787-9?

Thanks
 
Gemuser
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:29 am

dcajet wrote:
zeke wrote:

No idea why anyone would use statute miles as a measurement of distance on an international aviation forum. The great circle distance is under 8000 nm, the city pair is close enough the same as LHR-PER. QF have operated flights in excess of 9000 mm.


Bit pedantic? Not everyone on here is a pilot like you are so be a bit more generous, will you?


And not everyone, in fact very few [location wise] use statute miles. I agree with Zeke & using nm just makes comparisons easier.

Gemuser
 
tullamarine
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:32 am

Gemuser wrote:
dcajet wrote:
zeke wrote:

No idea why anyone would use statute miles as a measurement of distance on an international aviation forum. The great circle distance is under 8000 nm, the city pair is close enough the same as LHR-PER. QF have operated flights in excess of 9000 mm.


Bit pedantic? Not everyone on here is a pilot like you are so be a bit more generous, will you?


And not everyone, in fact very few [location wise] use statute miles. I agree with Zeke & using nm just makes comparisons easier.

Gemuser

NM or KM make sense. Miles really only means anything to those in USA and Liberia these days.
 
Gemuser
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:37 am

I doubt the flight will be non-stop due to CASA's requirements for operations below 60Degrees South. A splash & go at CHC would seem reasonable, even allowing for NZ paranoia over COVID.
The following is a reply I posted in the Aussie Aviation group earlier today which covers the same topic:
qf2220 wrote:
@redroo yes agreed. Also not a pilot. @gemuser what is the furthest south QF 789s can fly (i think ive seen you post about this before?)?

I'm not right up to date but generally operations below 60degrees South require CASA approval, as well as any required ETDO approval. Since the passing of greatly missed member Sunrise Valley, with whom
I had many interesting discussion on this topic both on the board & via IM, I have gone a bit cold on the topic.

One of the requirements is a plan to recover passengers & crew off the ice! That would be so expensive that it would probably bankrupt QF & their insurers! Of course CASA can grant a concession against any requirement, Would they in this case? Who knows I don't & can't guess.

If the B787 follows something like the GC route you would have to ask CASA what requirement were enforced. Given it is so early in the Antarctic Spring the weather would be a major factor & I would be very surprised if they are not forced to a more northly route. I would guess the route will be via CHC, it does not appear to get any where near 60 South.
The following map shows that CHC is only 3.4% longer than the GC route & even CPT < 25% longer. :
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=eze+-drw%2 ... 410&EU=kts

NB: I used the B777 engine out speed, as there was no B787 speed listed.

Gemuser
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:48 am

dcajet wrote:
zeke wrote:
No idea why anyone would use statute miles as a measurement of distance on an international aviation forum.

Bit pedantic?

Well, no.

Makes perfect sense: why would anyone on an internationally-patronized forum, use a standard of measure that for all intents and purposes, is only used in one major country (and even then, not used for aviation/seafaring purposes even in THAT country)?

Sure people can do the conversion, but it's not an unfair question to ask.
 
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scbriml
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:02 am

tullamarine wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
dcajet wrote:

Bit pedantic? Not everyone on here is a pilot like you are so be a bit more generous, will you?


And not everyone, in fact very few [location wise] use statute miles. I agree with Zeke & using nm just makes comparisons easier.

Gemuser

NM or KM make sense. Miles really only means anything to those in USA and Liberia these days.


The sound of millions of Brits choking on their tea! :spit:
 
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zeke
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:08 am

Gemuser wrote:
I doubt the flight will be non-stop due to CASA's requirements for operations below 60Degrees South. A splash & go at CHC would seem reasonable, even allowing for NZ paranoia over COVID.
The following is a reply I posted in the Aussie Aviation group earlier today which covers the same topic:
qf2220 wrote:
@redroo yes agreed. Also not a pilot. @gemuser what is the furthest south QF 789s can fly (i think ive seen you post about this before?)?

I'm not right up to date but generally operations below 60degrees South require CASA approval, as well as any required ETDO approval. Since the passing of greatly missed member Sunrise Valley, with whom
I had many interesting discussion on this topic both on the board & via IM, I have gone a bit cold on the topic.

One of the requirements is a plan to recover passengers & crew off the ice! That would be so expensive that it would probably bankrupt QF & their insurers! Of course CASA can grant a concession against any requirement, Would they in this case? Who knows I don't & can't guess.

If the B787 follows something like the GC route you would have to ask CASA what requirement were enforced. Given it is so early in the Antarctic Spring the weather would be a major factor & I would be very surprised if they are not forced to a more northly route. I would guess the route will be via CHC, it does not appear to get any where near 60 South.
The following map shows that CHC is only 3.4% longer than the GC route & even CPT < 25% longer. :
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=eze+-drw%2 ... 410&EU=kts

NB: I used the B777 engine out speed, as there was no B787 speed listed.

Gemuser


I had a look at your suggestion via CHC and also an eastbound path that would meet the CASA routing requirements from EZE if they head towards 5000S01000W and then 5000S02000E DRW they would have around 50 kts average tailwind for the trip, via CHC around 10 kts a average headwind. Westbound via CHC is a longer flight time than eastbound via 50S.

Also if they went eastbound with the route I suggested they would almost overfly PER which I think would be a better place for QF to do a tech stop.
 
Gemuser
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:06 pm

[quote="zeke" I had a look at your suggestion via CHC and also an eastbound path that would meet the CASA routing requirements from EZE if they head towards 5000S01000W and then 5000S02000E DRW they would have around 50 kts average tailwind for the trip, via CHC around 10 kts a average headwind. Westbound via CHC is a longer flight time than eastbound via 50S.

Also if they went eastbound with the route I suggested they would almost overfly PER which I think would be a better place for QF to do a tech stop.[/quote]
Yes sounds good. I do not have the information to properly account for winds so I just ignore them on here.

gemuser
 
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CaptSkibi
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:21 pm

It looks like the 787 Dreamliners have received ETOPS 330. Using ETOPS 330, it looks like the flight might be able to take nearly the great circle route, CASA notwithstanding.
Image
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=EZE-DRW&MS=wls&DU=nm&E=180&E=330&EV=410&EU=kts

If ETOPS 180 is used, the flight would need to pass over 3130S13240W on a westerly heading, yielding a flight of 8997 nm (+13.5% over the GCR).
Image
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=EZE-DRW%0D%0Aeze-3130S13240W-drw&MS=wls&DU=nm&E=180&E=330&EV=410&EU=kts

Heading easterly, it would be even worse, at 10296 nm (+29.9% over the GCR).
Image
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=EZE-DRW%0D%0Aeze-3130S13240W-drw%0D%0Aeze-2800S02030W-2730S00500W-4000S05000E-2700S07900E-2700S08400E-drw&MS=wls&DU=nm&E=180&E=330&EV=410&EU=kts
 
johns624
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:28 pm

scbriml wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
Gemuser wrote:

And not everyone, in fact very few [location wise] use statute miles. I agree with Zeke & using nm just makes comparisons easier.

Gemuser

NM or KM make sense. Miles really only means anything to those in USA and Liberia these days.


The sound of millions of Brits choking on their tea! :spit:
I was just going to say that (in different terms). The British still use statute miles.
 
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eurotrader85
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:49 pm

johns624 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
NM or KM make sense. Miles really only means anything to those in USA and Liberia these days.


The sound of millions of Brits choking on their tea! :spit:
I was just going to say that (in different terms). The British still use statute miles.


No, as a Brit, I have no idea why we still use miles instead of KMs, and wish we would do away with our other last remaining imperial measurements for full metric conversion. In school we are taught metric and I can only think the only reason our road signs are still in miles is due to the astronomical cost to replace them all across the country. The Rep. of Ireland did exactly that, replacing the road signs from miles into KMs (it was weird for a bit when they were in mid-conversion, you would drive along and it would say your destination was 40 away, then 10 minutes further down the road then next 'newer' sign would say 53). I mean seriously, who looks at a mile and thinks, ahh yes, that's 8 furlongs, which in turn is made up of 10 chains, which in turn is 22 yards and so on.
Last edited by eurotrader85 on Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jholio
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:58 pm

dcajet wrote:
Bit pedantic?


Pedantic is a.net's middle name. I for one enjoy the pedantry as it helps keep a higher level of discussion here over what you might see on Reddit, et. al.
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:15 pm

Hate to be in an economy seat on that flight
 
tullamarine
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:37 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
Hate to be in an economy seat on that flight

When you are on a repatriation flight trying to get home, you'd be grateful. The alternative is trying to get a commercial flight which will currently be a business class seat costing over $15000 followed by $3000 for 2 weeks in hotel quarantine and even then the risk of having your booking cancelled at anytime is very high.
 
thepinkmachine
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:58 pm

Any reason for CASA banning fights south of 60S? (ETOPS requirements notwithstanding)
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:04 pm

dcajet wrote:
zeke wrote:


I stand corrected, you are right on this one. Moderators, could the tittle be amended accordingly - as this would then be the second longest non stop flight with the 787-9?

Thanks

In the future, please report the thread starting post to bring this to our attention. There's no guarantee that we'll see it otherwise.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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Devilfish
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:04 pm

jholio wrote:
Pedantic is a.net's middle name.

Doesn't help an errant finger..... :point:
zeke wrote:
QF have operated flights in excess of 9000 mm.
:duck:
 
dispatchguy
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:05 pm

thepinkmachine wrote:
Any reason for CASA banning fights south of 60S? (ETOPS requirements notwithstanding)


I cant see the flight being restricted, however for a US operator, at 60S is where the South Polar authorization starts; N of 78N and S of 60S is where a US operator requires specific ops approval called a Polar Operations Specification.

QF has already done sightseeing flights S of 60S, so they already have that approval. Their 789s are limited to a 330 MINS E/O EDTO diversion, which works out to a 285 mins cargo fire suppression duration, but that can be flown all-engine at barber pole airspeed.

I can see this flight not flying directly over the South Pole, but somewhat offset from a great circle direct routing.
 
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zeke
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:41 pm

thepinkmachine wrote:
Any reason for CASA banning fights south of 60S? (ETOPS requirements notwithstanding)


Few issues :
Communications SATCOM limits, they dont have comms over the poles (there are some systems that do, but QF does not have them)
SAR - Outside any reasonable SAR range, Australia could not reach most of the MH370 search with normal SAR equipment for any reasonable time
Terrain - No decent aeronautical mapping of the south pole region for engineering analysis (depress etc)

QF do southern sightseeing charters they do not go further south than 75S, they normally remain within 4 hours of Hobart.

CaptSkibi wrote:
It looks like the 787 Dreamliners have received ETOPS 330. Using ETOPS 330, it looks like the flight might be able to take nearly the great circle route, CASA notwithstanding.
Image
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=EZE-DRW&MS=wls&DU=nm&E=180&E=330&EV=410&EU=kts

If ETOPS 180 is used, the flight would need to pass over 3130S13240W on a westerly heading, yielding a flight of 8997 nm (+13.5% over the GCR).
Image
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=EZE-DRW%0D%0Aeze-3130S13240W-drw&MS=wls&DU=nm&E=180&E=330&EV=410&EU=kts

Heading easterly, it would be even worse, at 10296 nm (+29.9% over the GCR).
Image
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=EZE-DRW%0D%0Aeze-3130S13240W-drw%0D%0Aeze-2800S02030W-2730S00500W-4000S05000E-2700S07900E-2700S08400E-drw&MS=wls&DU=nm&E=180&E=330&EV=410&EU=kts


Real world operations do not work that way.

EDTO approvals are operator specific, owning/operating a 787 does not entitle you to operate it to 330 minutes ETDO, that is an operational approval each operator must gain from its regulator. I would think 240 minutes would be more than ample for their operations.

With the direct great circle routing the flight time would be around 16:40 going via 3130S13240W would be a flight time of 19:56 with todays winds (an average headwind of 45 kts). Going via 2800S02030W 2730S00500W 40S050E 27S079E 27S084E would have an average of 57 kts tailwind, with a flight time of 18:54.

The eastbound route I suggested above of 50S010W 50S020E would be a flight time of 16:35 (9060 nm vs 7928 nm great circle), average tailwind of 63 kts giving a faster flight time than great circle, that ETDO route could be supported with EZE, CPT, MRU, and PER.
 
dcajet
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Re: QANTAS to operate its second longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:01 am

787-9 VH-ZNH operating as QF6051 is on its way to EZE from BNE, expected to arrive Sunday at 7:56 AM GMT+3. This aircraft will then make the EZE-DRW flight (QF14) on 5/10.

Image
 
dcajet
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Re: QANTAS to operate its second longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:17 pm

VH-ZNH on approach to EZE, earlier today.

https://twitter.com/jm_av_fotos/status/ ... 3363933193
 
dcajet
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Re: QANTAS to operate its second longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:53 pm

And already remotely parked at EZE with two rare (for Australia) neighbors: Aeromexico 787-9 and Level A332.

Image

Credit: @joaquinspotter
 
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a36001
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Re: QANTAS to operate its second longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:44 am

dcajet wrote:
And already remotely parked at EZE with two rare (for Australia) neighbors: Aeromexico 787-9 and Level A332.

Image

Credit: @joaquinspotter


I bet the Aussies stranded there are glad to see Big Red! Great photo! Credit to the Australian government and Qantas!
 
RickNRoll
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Re: QANTAS to operate its longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:11 am

johns624 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
NM or KM make sense. Miles really only means anything to those in USA and Liberia these days.


The sound of millions of Brits choking on their tea! :spit:
I was just going to say that (in different terms). The British still use statute miles.

Boris is going to let Farmers Markets use lbs, oz and hundredweight.
The weather report still uses degrees C and degrees F.

The joys of confusion.
 
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qf789
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Re: QANTAS to operate its second longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:45 am

Provisional flight plan for EZE-DRW, 8027nm with a flight time of 17 hours and 21 minutes

Image

https://twitter.com/keg767/status/14453 ... 36003?s=21
 
x1234
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Re: QANTAS to operate its second longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:47 pm

Holy crap. That's far more south that QF/LATAM's EZE/SCL-AKL/SYD/MEL. ANZ, QF and LATAM have never gone so far south over Antarctica. This is ETOPS330 territory.
 
Lootess
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Re: QANTAS to operate its second longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:07 pm

qf789 wrote:
Provisional flight plan for EZE-DRW, 8027nm with a flight time of 17 hours and 21 minutes

Image

https://twitter.com/keg767/status/14453 ... 36003?s=21


That is one awesome flight plan. Looking at that ETOPS just makes me jealous.
 
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Revelation
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Re: QANTAS to operate its second longest non stop flight with a 787-9

Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:25 am

QF is tweeting:

Update from #QF14

"It's cold -75C
Greetings fm Antartica
Over the Walker Ranges
Def no polar bears
All going well
Cheers fm QF14
Damien and Alex on deck"

Follow the journey here: https://bit.ly/3iBdXDM

Ref: https://twitter.com/Qantas/status/1445534897595031565

Link points to FR24 page:

https://www.flightradar24.com/QFA14/2965a97d

At this time, looks like they should have passed by Antarctica by now but the dotted lines mean the position is estimated i.e. they have no data for planes that far South.

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