Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Francoflier wrote:Upgrade from duct tape to speed tape?
trent768 wrote:That sounds super weird. As if the cops asked us "a'ight, what do you guys wants us to do to the robbers? Come on now, don't be shy!".
I'm not an American so I don't really know how the system works. But for me it looks like that the government asked the big business to set up rules that will be eventually turned in to law. Which is weird and usually not a very good idea.
sibibom wrote:Perhaps an IQ test before boarding?
Jokes apart have they considered the effect of smaller/narrower/tighter seat pitch along with growing size of Americans causing discomfort leading to such outburst....
Francoflier wrote:Upgrade from duct tape to speed tape?
alasizon wrote:trent768 wrote:That sounds super weird. As if the cops asked us "a'ight, what do you guys wants us to do to the robbers? Come on now, don't be shy!".
I'm not an American so I don't really know how the system works. But for me it looks like that the government asked the big business to set up rules that will be eventually turned in to law. Which is weird and usually not a very good idea.
It's not even asking the airlines to setup the laws, it's more akin to asking car manufacturers how they are going to stop people from stealing cars and what they are going to do to enforce it.
TXL4ever wrote:not a bad idea to request input from those who have to deal with the issue on a day to day basis (aka the airlines) and then see what additional measures would be needed/helpful.
kalvado wrote:I wonder who came up with the idea of car keys with chips - manufacturers, regulators, or some unlucky engineer who's car was stolen?
737MAX7 wrote:How about actually arresting and charging these idiots that are doing it to start with? If nothing happens to these people they will continue to do it. It was so incredibly irritating when I dated a Customer Service Supervisor at my airline and she would tell me about people acting a fool and having to call Cleveland Police to the gate just for the police to escort them out with no arrest and no charges.
alasizon wrote:I'm sorry, the FAA (part of who's job is aviation safety) wants to know what the carriers are going to do to curb passenger behavior?? 90% of disruptive passengers aren't arrested so unless the FAA is going to provide enhanced guidance and funding to airport police, nothing is going to change.
IAmGaroott wrote:Make an example out of a few people and this will stop. Give a lifetime flight ban to the next 10 people who are forcibly removed and put them on a public list online.
IAmGaroott wrote:Make an example out of a few people and this will stop. Give a lifetime flight ban to the next 10 people who are forcibly removed and put them on a public list online.
frmrCapCadet wrote:I suspect local law enforcement really does not want to spend money dealing with violent passengers who will be flying off to another state or country three days later. Airline law enforcement likely needs to be federalized, with enforcement and courts specifically dealing only with aviation related issues.
737MAX7 wrote:How about actually arresting and charging these idiots that are doing it to start with? If nothing happens to these people they will continue to do it. It was so incredibly irritating when I dated a Customer Service Supervisor at my airline and she would tell me about people acting a fool and having to call Cleveland Police to the gate just for the police to escort them out with no arrest and no charges.
jetmatt777 wrote:
If you are incapable of handling your emotions around wearing a mask in flight; then you probably shouldn’t be onboard an airplane, or in public in the first place.
99% of people can comply without throwing a temper tantrum and assaulting people. If you are that easily aggravated then they should be in a mental asylum.
I don’t think anyone particularly likes wearing them, but most people can act like adults and do as they are told.
TXL4ever wrote:not a bad idea to request input from those who have to deal with the issue on a day to day basis (aka the airlines) and then see what additional measures would be needed/helpful.
This is not a US-only issue, not a too-wide-a$§ in a too-narrow-seat issue, not a too-much-booze-in thin-air issue... I have experienced similar stuff on board planes in Europe and am frustrated about the ignorance people display (reg. masks) onboard trains as well...
planecane wrote:How about instead of letting it escalate to a violent incident, if a person refuses to wear a mask just tell them if they don't put it on they will be banned from flying the airline and arrested upon arrival. Don't continue to try and force them to wear it. If we're being honest about "the science" inside the aircraft cabin is not a location with a high risk of spread due to the airflow and filtration so letting a person be maskless isn't that big of a deal. It's much "safer" than ending up with a violent confrontation onboard. They just have to be punished after the fact and banned from flying the airline due to not obeying crewmember instructions and arrested.
OzarkD9S wrote:Universal no-fly lists and hefty fines. Get the riff raff out of the sky.
jetmatt777 wrote:The railroads have fully deputized private police forces: they are not rent-a-cops.
Given the close legal framework of railroads and airlines (airlines follow most of the railway act) could there not be some way to allow flight attendants to write and issue citations? Not saying every FA to be a sworn officer of the law, but under the right circumstances and with consultation of the company and captain via already existing communication channels could they not be warranted a “one-time” authority to issue a court summons and written citation on behalf of the company?
There has to be a way to allow enforcement in the unique environment of operating aircraft where law enforcement is not present and cannot be made present.
FGITD wrote:jetmatt777 wrote:
If you are incapable of handling your emotions around wearing a mask in flight; then you probably shouldn’t be onboard an airplane, or in public in the first place.
99% of people can comply without throwing a temper tantrum and assaulting people. If you are that easily aggravated then they should be in a mental asylum.
I don’t think anyone particularly likes wearing them, but most people can act like adults and do as they are told.
Exactly. I’ve had people react better to having their flight canceled at the last second (waiting for pushback) than when I tell them they need to wear a little piece of cloth for a few hours.
Sorry but it’s not an excuse. It’s our plane, our rules and we’re told that pax have to wear masks to be on them. If you can’t handle that, then go back to the daycare you belong in.
SWADawg wrote:FGITD wrote:jetmatt777 wrote:
If you are incapable of handling your emotions around wearing a mask in flight; then you probably shouldn’t be onboard an airplane, or in public in the first place.
99% of people can comply without throwing a temper tantrum and assaulting people. If you are that easily aggravated then they should be in a mental asylum.
I don’t think anyone particularly likes wearing them, but most people can act like adults and do as they are told.
Exactly. I’ve had people react better to having their flight canceled at the last second (waiting for pushback) than when I tell them they need to wear a little piece of cloth for a few hours.
Sorry but it’s not an excuse. It’s our plane, our rules and we’re told that pax have to wear masks to be on them. If you can’t handle that, then go back to the daycare you belong in.
You just perfectly summed up the problem I see online with various Flight Attendants. Your tone in your own post is confrontational from the start like you’re already spoiling for a fight with a passenger. Then you come up front to the business end and tell us that you want a passenger removed for non compliance while my partner and I just listened to you berate our customers for the last ten minutes with endless mask PA’s. To blame passengers as the only problem here is missing the point. It’s not always, but sometimes a two way street when it comes to these airborne rage incidents. Did the Flight Attendant really do everything they could do defuse the situation, or did they gaslight it and get the passenger to overreact. Just something to think about from someone who observes this on a daily basis.
floridaflyboy wrote:jetmatt777 wrote:The railroads have fully deputized private police forces: they are not rent-a-cops.
Given the close legal framework of railroads and airlines (airlines follow most of the railway act) could there not be some way to allow flight attendants to write and issue citations? Not saying every FA to be a sworn officer of the law, but under the right circumstances and with consultation of the company and captain via already existing communication channels could they not be warranted a “one-time” authority to issue a court summons and written citation on behalf of the company?
There has to be a way to allow enforcement in the unique environment of operating aircraft where law enforcement is not present and cannot be made present.
I'm a big supporter of FAs and their absolute critical role (having been one for several years), but there are plenty who would use that power and simply make the situation worse (advertently or inadvertently). There were plenty of FAs I flew with who I would cringe to see with a citation pad.
MIflyer12 wrote:The fools causing the problems lack social skills, a sense of community, and impulse control. They won't be thinking about how driving to Florida next year instead of flying will hurt their quality of life.
jeffreyklm wrote:sibibom wrote:Perhaps an IQ test before boarding?
Jokes apart have they considered the effect of smaller/narrower/tighter seat pitch along with growing size of Americans causing discomfort leading to such outburst....
Not the easiest correlation to prove causality. However, I do think there's a small link but I think most of the problems arise from (in their opinion!) poor service or disrupted operations.
I do hope that the FAA asked for the airlines' expert judgement and will empower the airport police and the airlines to take more action instead of just pointing fingers.
SWADawg wrote:FGITD wrote:jetmatt777 wrote:
If you are incapable of handling your emotions around wearing a mask in flight; then you probably shouldn’t be onboard an airplane, or in public in the first place.
99% of people can comply without throwing a temper tantrum and assaulting people. If you are that easily aggravated then they should be in a mental asylum.
I don’t think anyone particularly likes wearing them, but most people can act like adults and do as they are told.
Exactly. I’ve had people react better to having their flight canceled at the last second (waiting for pushback) than when I tell them they need to wear a little piece of cloth for a few hours.
Sorry but it’s not an excuse. It’s our plane, our rules and we’re told that pax have to wear masks to be on them. If you can’t handle that, then go back to the daycare you belong in.
You just perfectly summed up the problem I see online with various Flight Attendants. Your tone in your own post is confrontational from the start like you’re already spoiling for a fight with a passenger. Then you come up front to the business end and tell us that you want a passenger removed for non compliance while my partner and I just listened to you berate our customers for the last ten minutes with endless mask PA’s. To blame passengers as the only problem here is missing the point. It’s not always, but sometimes a two way street when it comes to these airborne rage incidents. Did the Flight Attendant really do everything they could do defuse the situation, or did they gaslight it and get the passenger to overreact. Just something to think about from someone who observes this on a daily basis.
jetmatt777 wrote:floridaflyboy wrote:jetmatt777 wrote:The railroads have fully deputized private police forces: they are not rent-a-cops.
Given the close legal framework of railroads and airlines (airlines follow most of the railway act) could there not be some way to allow flight attendants to write and issue citations? Not saying every FA to be a sworn officer of the law, but under the right circumstances and with consultation of the company and captain via already existing communication channels could they not be warranted a “one-time” authority to issue a court summons and written citation on behalf of the company?
There has to be a way to allow enforcement in the unique environment of operating aircraft where law enforcement is not present and cannot be made present.
I'm a big supporter of FAs and their absolute critical role (having been one for several years), but there are plenty who would use that power and simply make the situation worse (advertently or inadvertently). There were plenty of FAs I flew with who I would cringe to see with a citation pad.
Did you even read my post? I said a one-time authority issued to the FA by the airline in consultation with the airline and captain. Please do not put words in my mouth. A one-time authority issued by the company and captain to write a citation is a long ways from having a citation pad and unlimited authority to use it.
I.e. this guy in 12B is throwing a fit. Text the company, include a video if able. Company agrees behavior warrants a citation. FA is given authorization to write the ticket. Or company does not see a citation is necessary, and the authority is not granted.
F27500 wrote:I think one thing airlines should stop doing is having people removed for their belligerent, threatening or abusive behavior and. then allowing them to take a later flight once they've "calmed down" enough. If you get pulled off a plane for the way you behaved, if you're not arrested, then at the very least, you should NOT reaccomodated under any circumstances by that airline. "Here's your refund ... BYEEE and don't ever come back".
floridaflyboy wrote:jetmatt777 wrote:floridaflyboy wrote:
I'm a big supporter of FAs and their absolute critical role (having been one for several years), but there are plenty who would use that power and simply make the situation worse (advertently or inadvertently). There were plenty of FAs I flew with who I would cringe to see with a citation pad.
Did you even read my post? I said a one-time authority issued to the FA by the airline in consultation with the airline and captain. Please do not put words in my mouth. A one-time authority issued by the company and captain to write a citation is a long ways from having a citation pad and unlimited authority to use it.
I.e. this guy in 12B is throwing a fit. Text the company, include a video if able. Company agrees behavior warrants a citation. FA is given authorization to write the ticket. Or company does not see a citation is necessary, and the authority is not granted.
Get off your high horse. Yeah, I read your post. Yeah, I disagree with it. Yeah, FAs tend to attract a number of people on a power trip who would abuse such a system. Yeah, it would create more problems than it would solve. Nough said. Thanks for the great dialogue. /sarcasm.
I think these scumbags deserve far more than they're getting. But I don't think that putting it in the hands of someone at the company is the right approach. Sorry if you do.