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LAX772LR
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DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:17 pm

Article sums it up:

https://airlineweekly.com/2021/09/delta ... -in-fleet/


I still doubt they'll do it without getting MRO on that specific engine variant from CFM.

Personally hope that neither happens, as it's nice to have a major airline option that allows avoidance of the MAX; but will be interesting to see what eventually shakes out.
 
jbs2886
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:21 pm

This is the interesting line: "Bastian expressed some surprise that Boeing and Delta had not yet reached a deal for the jets." That sounds to me like DL wants them, but just some important points haven't been agreed upon (i.e., MRO). Can't wait for the aggressive comments that DL doesn't need more new aircraft - DL seems to disagree and knows how to make this work (expansion, retirement, etc.)
 
Opus99
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:29 pm

This is a.net so DL will never buy the MAX. And if they do I want to see what peoples explanation will be.

Let’s see
 
jayunited
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:31 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Article sums it up:

https://airlineweekly.com/2021/09/delta ... -in-fleet/


I still doubt they'll do it without getting MRO on that specific engine variant from CFM.

Personally hope that neither happens, as it's nice to have a major airline option that allows avoidance of the MAX; but will be interesting to see what eventually shakes out.


Are looking to avoid the MAX because of its history or because of the layout some airline have gone with?

I've flown on United's MAX8s and MAX9s, I would say in all honesty avoid United's MAX9s until they are refurbished and resemble our MAX8s, but our MAX8s are a nice ride in first class and coach.

Back to Delta I think at some point in the not too distant future they will more than likely order the MAX8 or maybe the MAX10.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:35 pm

Here we go again...

No, DL isn't "making media noise" about the 737 MAX. During a webinar engaged with the pilots, Bastian was asked about a potential MAX order and gave the same response gives every single time: 'we're constantly talking to Boeing.' Again... it's the same response every single time. Again... the same response, 377 Airbus A220/A321 orders later. He also said DL was looking at other options, including new and used jets.

There's obviously a lot of sensitivity regarding A vs B - what the heck do you think he's going to say? 'We're extremely pleased with the Airbus 321, but several years from now when the crux of the 320 and 738 fleet is up for renewal, we'll certainly consider it.' He has a relationship with Boeing to consider. And while this forum choose to ignore it, he's also previously said that he felt Boeing should've proceeded with a clean sheet design.

jbs2886 wrote:
This is the interesting line: "Bastian expressed some surprise that Boeing and Delta had not yet reached a deal for the jets." That sounds to me like DL wants them, but just some important points haven't been agreed upon (i.e., MRO). Can't wait for the aggressive comments that DL doesn't need more new aircraft - DL seems to disagree and knows how to make this work (expansion, retirement, etc.)


I'm sure the comment was taken out of context. If DL truly wanted the MAX, DL could've purchased it earlier this year at the best pricing it would ever get. Bastian's hardly surprised - he's an integral part of the conversation and committed to 55 additional A321 this year.

It's like that girl you liked at some point in your life, who told you she was interested in you, but wasn't ready to date at this time... but yet somehow ended up dating everybody but you.
 
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keesje
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:38 pm

I sense a desire with big operators like IAG, KLM/AF, LH, Delta, the Chinese to have options; a dual source policy. To avoid dependency on 1 OEM.

If Boeing offered a modern new Boeing 7321 (engine choice, AKH options, FBW, TATL, lower noise spacey cabin, cockpit) I think they would sell 1500 in no time, just because of that.
Last edited by keesje on Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:40 pm

It’ll happen eventually IMO
 
B747forever
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:56 pm

Opus99 wrote:
This is a.net so DL will never buy the MAX. And if they do I want to see what peoples explanation will be.

Let’s see

They got them for change, so they couldn’t refuse adding them to the fleet when basically free?
 
jbs2886
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:57 pm

B747forever wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
This is a.net so DL will never buy the MAX. And if they do I want to see what peoples explanation will be.

Let’s see

They got them for change, so they couldn’t refuse adding them to the fleet when basically free?


We know DL won't be getting them for "basically free" - come on.
 
F27500
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:59 pm

Its a great plane .. flew an AA 737MAX last week DCA-MCO. Those lavs tho .. LOL ... they're every bit as ridiculous as everyone's been saying. Just idiotically small. Is that just an AA thing? Or do all MAX carriers have to take those?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:06 pm

jayunited wrote:
Are looking to avoid the MAX because of its history or because of the layout some airline have gone with?

The former. I don't trust it, wouldn't feel safe on it, and will not be riding one any time soon.

I don't care what Boeing/FAA claim to have done; the only thing that'd make me comfortable with the idea of stepping on that thing, would be yearsss of operation under more carriers, with more units, and no further such incidents.

So, was content to just avoid it until then... same thing I did during the rudder-issues years.
Since 95%+ of my flying is on DL, and I live at a DL hub, that thus-far hasn't been difficult to do.
 
reltney
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:22 pm

I just jumpseated on a U-nited MAX. 2 legs. One in the cockpit and one in back. Overall good! It isn’t a 757 so the cockpit layout is absolutely horrible. Not much room as in all 737s. Why did Boeing follow SW and not change to the 757 cockpit on the 737NG is the biggest issue and Boeing’s failure. Riding in back was great. Very quiet, much improved! I hope Delta gets the MAX series! I hope to fly the 757/767 until I retire and it looks good for that, but If needed, I would fly it and prefer the max over the NG.

Cheers
 
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N776AU
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:29 pm

I really hope not. Like a previous post said, it's nice to have that safety net of an airline that doesn't fly the type. That, and I prefer to fly on aircraft that don't make a habit of nose diving themselves in to the ground. They're going to have go a lot of years incident free before I'll even think about trusting the aircraft.
 
777Mech
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:34 pm

If DL is making noise about wanting the MAX, it's more of a shot towards CFM to get it together and give MRO rights.

CFM has cost Boeing a good chunk of change thus far with losing the last narrowbody RFP because of it.
 
Boof02671
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:37 pm

jayunited wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Article sums it up:

https://airlineweekly.com/2021/09/delta ... -in-fleet/


I still doubt they'll do it without getting MRO on that specific engine variant from CFM.

Personally hope that neither happens, as it's nice to have a major airline option that allows avoidance of the MAX; but will be interesting to see what eventually shakes out.


Are looking to avoid the MAX because of its history or because of the layout some airline have gone with?

I've flown on United's MAX8s and MAX9s, I would say in all honesty avoid United's MAX9s until they are refurbished and resemble our MAX8s, but our MAX8s are a nice ride in first class and coach.

Back to Delta I think at some point in the not too distant future they will more than likely order the MAX8 or maybe the MAX10.

Why would UA refurbish basically new planes?
 
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Polot
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:45 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Article sums it up:

https://airlineweekly.com/2021/09/delta ... -in-fleet/


I still doubt they'll do it without getting MRO on that specific engine variant from CFM.

Personally hope that neither happens, as it's nice to have a major airline option that allows avoidance of the MAX; but will be interesting to see what eventually shakes out.


Are looking to avoid the MAX because of its history or because of the layout some airline have gone with?

I've flown on United's MAX8s and MAX9s, I would say in all honesty avoid United's MAX9s until they are refurbished and resemble our MAX8s, but our MAX8s are a nice ride in first class and coach.

Back to Delta I think at some point in the not too distant future they will more than likely order the MAX8 or maybe the MAX10.

Why would UA refurbish basically new planes?

So they match the rest of the fleet after they undergo their “United Next” transformation and future Max9s that are delivered with that product.

Wouldn’t surprise me if they are among the last refurbished though since the cabins are so new.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:31 pm

With an potential order, what sort of numbers would we be looking at?

Delta need not place a large order to be able to not only supplement fleet growth, but also keep Airbus potentially more honest with pricing (and they already share a cozy relationship as is, so it's a smart move at this time for DL). That said, and what better a place to ask - how much, and for what purpose? Admittedly speculative, but why not...
 
Douglas7Seas
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:48 am

I'd like to see Delta slowly weed out the foreign aircraft in its fleet and replace them with North American equipment.
 
9252fly
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:50 am

If there's any interest on DL's part, then I would say it's more a negotiating tactic to keep Airbus honest. Push comes to shove, then the MAX becomes more of a possibility, but not without an MRO agreement from CFM.
 
Douglas7Seas
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:51 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Article sums it up:

https://airlineweekly.com/2021/09/delta ... -in-fleet/


I still doubt they'll do it without getting MRO on that specific engine variant from CFM.

Personally hope that neither happens, as it's nice to have a major airline option that allows avoidance of the MAX; but will be interesting to see what eventually shakes out.

I feel similarly about flying Airbus equipment over water. It's just something I'd like to avoid.
 
tys777
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:56 am

Douglas7Seas wrote:
I'd like to see Delta slowly weed out the foreign aircraft in its fleet and replace them with North American equipment.


So, are you ok with Mobile assembled Airbus?
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:04 am

9252fly wrote:
If there's any interest on DL's part, then I would say it's more a negotiating tactic to keep Airbus honest. Push comes to shove, then the MAX becomes more of a possibility, but not without an MRO agreement from CFM.


DL agreed to 100 options, which have a price attached to them - and I'm certain they're aware of current market.

Ultimately, DL has nearly 200 used B739 and new A321 scheduled for delivery by early 2027. We may see DL add additional used aircraft, or convert a small quantity of additional A321 options, but the notion that DL's going to order 100+ MAX (in order to justify adding the aircraft, the minimum order will be significant) and renew the bulk of its domestic fleet over the next several years is pure fantasy.

DL has commented in the past that they preferred Boeing to develop a clean sheet aircraft rather than the MAX, and DL is bulking up on late model 739 / 321CEO while being late to take delivery of the NEO. I wouldn't be shocked if DL minimizes its exposure to the MAX / NEO and waits for the next gen replacement.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:37 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
I wouldn't be shocked if DL minimizes its exposure to the MAX / NEO and waits for the next gen replacement.

....if one were to call 155 firm orders + 95 options for the NEO, "minimized." :wink2:
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:08 am

LAX772LR wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Are looking to avoid the MAX because of its history or because of the layout some airline have gone with?

The former. I don't trust it, wouldn't feel safe on it, and will not be riding one any time soon.

I don't care what Boeing/FAA claim to have done; the only thing that'd make me comfortable with the idea of stepping on that thing, would be yearsss of operation under more carriers, with more units, and no further such incidents.

So, was content to just avoid it until then... same thing I did during the rudder-issues years.
Since 95%+ of my flying is on DL, and I live at a DL hub, that thus-far hasn't been difficult to do.


Just out of curiosity, do you have some data that shows the 737 Max is still unsafe, that the rest of us don’t have?

FWIW, I work very closely with people involved in the return to service and recertification, so I have familiarity with the design fixes and future enhancements. As an aviation professional close to the situation, I’d have no hesitation at all to get on one tomorrow or put my family on one. It’s now a very safe airplane.

Hopefully Boeing doesn’t repeat past stupidity with DL like filing the C-Series complaint and alienating DL right in the middle of a promising sales campaign with DL for 737-9s. That was embarrassing it was so foolish.
 
tullamarine
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:08 am

Douglas7Seas wrote:
I'd like to see Delta slowly weed out the foreign aircraft in its fleet and replace them with North American equipment.

Apart from the obvious question of why which I fear may just be xenophobia, I think you'll be waiting a very long time. DL are currently increasing their Airbus fleet so, even if they went to an only-American policy today, it would be nearly 30 years before the Airbus fleets were retired.

It is not in the interests of either OEM or the airlines themselves to operate in a protected environment where local airlines can only buy local products. Such a policy would diminish competition and innovation.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:10 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
Ultimately, DL has nearly 200 used B739 and new A321 scheduled for delivery by early 2027. We may see DL add additional used aircraft, or convert a small quantity of additional A321 options, but the notion that DL's going to order 100+ MAX (in order to justify adding the aircraft, the minimum order will be significant) and renew the bulk of its domestic fleet over the next several years is pure fantasy.



And this is why they will not order MAXs. If BCA live long enough to develop a 73M replacement —a substantial presumption at this moment— it will need to be competitive to the 32X NEO family to the point of superiority. An airline that has just finished receiving 73Ms will automatically be at a huge disadvantage, and twice over.

LAX772LR wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
I wouldn't be shocked if DL minimizes its exposure to the MAX / NEO and waits for the next gen replacement.

....if one were to call 155 firm orders + 95 options for the NEO, "minimized." :wink2:


I actually might. A 32X NEO will likely still be somewhat competitive with whatever family of NBs BCA can cobble together at that point. A new BCA offering should be superior, but the difference between that and the 32X will likely be far smaller than the gap that now exists between the NEO & MAX.
 
iAvgeek737
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:23 am

F27500 wrote:
Its a great plane .. flew an AA 737MAX last week DCA-MCO. Those lavs tho .. LOL ... they're every bit as ridiculous as everyone's been saying. Just idiotically small. Is that just an AA thing? Or do all MAX carriers have to take those?


Its an AA thing. America West is alive and well
 
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lightsaber
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:28 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
Here we go again...

No, DL isn't "making media noise" about the 737 MAX. During a webinar engaged with the pilots, Bastian was asked about a potential MAX order and gave the same response gives every single time: 'we're constantly talking to Boeing.' Again... it's the same response every single time. Again... the same response, 377 Airbus A220/A321 orders later. He also said DL was looking at other options, including new and used jets.

....

I'm sure the comment was taken out of context. If DL truly wanted the MAX, DL could've purchased it earlier this year at the best pricing it would ever get. Bastian's hardly surprised - he's an integral part of the conversation and committed to 55 additional A321 this year.


I believe the engine MRO is a point Delta insists upon and they should. Too much of Delta's cost control is engine maintenance.

I do believe DL will buy more aircraft. With the 739s plus other 737s, the MAX is a cheap addition. I do agree the cheapest price for purchase was earlier this year. That doesn't change the MRO terms from CFM.

I think this order could happen. I personally hope it does; I rather enjoyed my last few DL flights on the 739 (and ones before on the A321). The safety review was brutal and I have no issue.

Boeing must sell at a profit (I suspect Ryanair demanded too much). If, and only if, CFM agrees to an engine MRO deal, this will happen.

For such large deals, it is worth waiting.

FWIW, I believe over the next decade DL will buy far more Airbus than Boeing.

DL is a screwed negotiator with plenty of used options too. They don't need to rush.

Lightsaber
 
flyinggoat
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:44 am

If Delta were to order the MAX, my guess is it’s for the MAX8.

I could see Delta ordering the MAX10 as well, but I don’t think that’ll happen until the 737-900ERs start getting replaced.

It could also be a ploy for Airbus to launch the A220-500. That would be an excellent aircraft for Delta.

I’d have no issues flying on a MAX, and I’m looking forward to that opportunity.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:11 am

Douglas7Seas wrote:
I'd like to see Delta slowly weed out the foreign aircraft in its fleet and replace them with North American equipment.

A lot of DL aircraft are North American products: A321s from Mobile, A220s from both Mirabel and Mobile, plus all the Boeings.
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:20 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Article sums it up:

https://airlineweekly.com/2021/09/delta ... -in-fleet/


I still doubt they'll do it without getting MRO on that specific engine variant from CFM.

Personally hope that neither happens, as it's nice to have a major airline option that allows avoidance of the MAX; but will be interesting to see what eventually shakes out.


Political pressures trump these types of decisions in the U.S. airline industry. A congressman/woman will inquire to DL about why it hasn't purchased Boeing equipment as of late at the behest of Boeing.

I do think DL will get the MAX, but much further down the road vis-a-vis the 737-900ER.

DL clearly has an Airbus preference, and will continue to stay like that under Bastian, but it also knows from a supply chain perspective that exclusivity always costs more in the long-run.
 
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zkojq
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:18 am

Seems to be a lot of speculation based on the CEO essentially giving a diplomatic non-answer, no?

jbs2886 wrote:
This is the interesting line: "Bastian expressed some surprise that Boeing and Delta had not yet reached a deal for the jets." That sounds to me like DL wants them, but just some important points haven't been agreed upon


That sounds to me that the suprise bit is just the secondary observation of the author, given that they didn't actually include the quote where Ed Bastian made surprised sounding remarks.

777Mech wrote:
CFM has cost Boeing a good chunk of change thus far with losing the last narrowbody RFP because of it.


The risks of giving an OEM exclusivity on your products, no? Would be surprised if RR exclusivity on the A330neo/A350 hasn't cost Airbus a few sales.
 
B747forever
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:41 am

LAX772LR wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Are looking to avoid the MAX because of its history or because of the layout some airline have gone with?

The former. I don't trust it, wouldn't feel safe on it, and will not be riding one any time soon.

I don't care what Boeing/FAA claim to have done; the only thing that'd make me comfortable with the idea of stepping on that thing, would be yearsss of operation under more carriers, with more units, and no further such incidents.

So, was content to just avoid it until then... same thing I did during the rudder-issues years.
Since 95%+ of my flying is on DL, and I live at a DL hub, that thus-far hasn't been difficult to do.


From reading your posts over the last couple of years, you don’t come across as an irrational person, to the contrary your posts are usually factual and mostly backed up by data. So I find it interesting you still feel this way regarding the MAX.
 
chiad
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:54 am

Delta has some 230 narrowbodies coming in and some 370 units that needs replaceing, so a MAX order is quite possible IMO.
 
777Mech
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:02 am

zkojq wrote:
Seems to be a lot of speculation based on the CEO essentially giving a diplomatic non-answer, no?

jbs2886 wrote:
This is the interesting line: "Bastian expressed some surprise that Boeing and Delta had not yet reached a deal for the jets." That sounds to me like DL wants them, but just some important points haven't been agreed upon


That sounds to me that the suprise bit is just the secondary observation of the author, given that they didn't actually include the quote where Ed Bastian made surprised sounding remarks.

777Mech wrote:
CFM has cost Boeing a good chunk of change thus far with losing the last narrowbody RFP because of it.


The risks of giving an OEM exclusivity on your products, no? Would be surprised if RR exclusivity on the A330neo/A350 hasn't cost Airbus a few sales.


Name an airline that wants to have their MRO include RR products but have been denied the ability?
 
DXTraveler
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:08 am

I'm with LAX772LR, going to wait this one out for a few years. It's not an irrational position. I flew out of ADD the morning of the ET crash on another flight departing about 45 minutes behind it. I watched a few 737's take off that morning and often wonder if that ill fated flight was one of them. Thankfully I was never in any danger but that experience shook me in a way I've not had before.
 
Atlwarrior
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:24 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
Here we go again...

No, DL isn't "making media noise" about the 737 MAX. During a webinar engaged with the pilots, Bastian was asked about a potential MAX order and gave the same response gives every single time: 'we're constantly talking to Boeing.' Again... it's the same response every single time. Again... the same response, 377 Airbus A220/A321 orders later. He also said DL was looking at other options, including new and used jets.

There's obviously a lot of sensitivity regarding A vs B - what the heck do you think he's going to say? 'We're extremely pleased with the Airbus 321, but several years from now when the crux of the 320 and 738 fleet is up for renewal, we'll certainly consider it.' He has a relationship with Boeing to consider. And while this forum choose to ignore it, he's also previously said that he felt Boeing should've proceeded with a clean sheet design.

jbs2886 wrote:
This is the interesting line: "Bastian expressed some surprise that Boeing and Delta had not yet reached a deal for the jets." That sounds to me like DL wants them, but just some important points haven't been agreed upon (i.e., MRO). Can't wait for the aggressive comments that DL doesn't need more new aircraft - DL seems to disagree and knows how to make this work (expansion, retirement, etc.)


I'm sure the comment was taken out of context. If DL truly wanted the MAX, DL could've purchased it earlier this year at the best pricing it would ever get. Bastian's hardly surprised - he's an integral part of the conversation and committed to 55 additional A321 this year.

It's like that girl you liked at some point in your life, who told you she was interested in you, but wasn't ready to date at this time... but yet somehow ended up dating everybody but you.


Great post, MRO is a big deal. I just watch the Boeing documentary on PBS, even with the problem corrected, the aircraft may still carry a bad perception among the public.
 
Avgeek21
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:30 am

The MAX is a fine aircraft and safe. I'm flying one again tonight and really look forward to it. The small lav's are no issue. I'd rather have more space elsewhere. The MAX 9 is a poor performer in hot and high. The MAX 10 should be better but we got to wait for the numbers. The MAX 8 has got great numbers and looooong legs. So I'd say MAX 8 and 10 for DL.
 
Jomar777
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:29 am

LAX772LR wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Are looking to avoid the MAX because of its history or because of the layout some airline have gone with?

The former. I don't trust it, wouldn't feel safe on it, and will not be riding one any time soon.

I don't care what Boeing/FAA claim to have done; the only thing that'd make me comfortable with the idea of stepping on that thing, would be yearsss of operation under more carriers, with more units, and no further such incidents.

So, was content to just avoid it until then... same thing I did during the rudder-issues years.
Since 95%+ of my flying is on DL, and I live at a DL hub, that thus-far hasn't been difficult to do.


I get your point but consider the paradox: "the only thing that'd make me comfortable with the idea of stepping on that thing, would be yearsss of operation under more carriers, with more units...". You would only feel comfortable flying in one when a lot of airlines have used them but yet hope they do not (well... at least DL...).

DL would be crazy to close its doors to Boeing so, even though they might not order anything anytime soon, they will always be at least non-committal - you never know what them (and Airbus for that matter) may run up into in matters of development or problems in future.
 
ewt340
Posts: 1465
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:21 am

Delta probably think that Boeing would sold the MAX at extremely low prices. But they found out that Boeing is unwilling to go that low. By putting the words out there through some gossip forum, it would start rattle Airbus. Delta probably hopes this gossip would make Airbus call Delta and give them extra special offer to buy more NEOs.

Which in return when Boeing heard about the Airbus future offer would in return, call Delta and give them the extra discount they wanted. At this point they could go either way anyway since Delta is also addicted to B737-900ER, so it's not like they wanted to wipe out all the B737 from their fleet in the near future.

But I bet if Airbus offers them deep discount for more NEOs, Delta would bought it.
 
rbavfan
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:26 am

Douglas7Seas wrote:
I'd like to see Delta slowly weed out the foreign aircraft in its fleet and replace them with North American equipment.


737 parts from: https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna36507420

Among major suppliers, China’s Xian Aircraft Co. makes the some 737 vertical fins, and Japan’s Mitsubishi Heavy Industries provides the wing’s inboard flaps.
“We recognize we can’t build every single piece of the plane in America,” Michael said.

Also this whopper: https://exportaction.com/2019/06/boeing ... rbus-a320/


So do you want to rethink that comment.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:31 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
Ultimately, DL has nearly 200 used B739 and new A321 scheduled for delivery by early 2027. We may see DL add additional used aircraft, or convert a small quantity of additional A321 options, but the notion that DL's going to order 100+ MAX (in order to justify adding the aircraft, the minimum order will be significant) and renew the bulk of its domestic fleet over the next several years is pure fantasy.



And this is why they will not order MAXs. If BCA live long enough to develop a 73M replacement —a substantial presumption at this moment— it will need to be competitive to the 32X NEO family to the X.

That's not a bit of a problem. You're talking about the carrier that is still getting A321ceos, inducted 49 MD-90s, and got 91 717s. Outdated but cheap works just fine in the Delta model.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:38 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
9252fly wrote:
If there's any interest on DL's part, then I would say it's more a negotiating tactic to keep Airbus honest. Push comes to shove, then the MAX becomes more of a possibility, but not without an MRO agreement from CFM.


DL agreed to 100 options, which have a price attached to them - and I'm certain they're aware of current market.

Ultimately, DL has nearly 200 used B739 and new A321 scheduled for delivery by early 2027. We may see DL add additional used aircraft, or convert a small quantity of additional A321 options, but the notion that DL's going to order 100+ MAX (in order to justify adding the aircraft, the minimum order will be significant) and renew the bulk of its domestic fleet over the next several years is pure fantasy.

.


I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Delta ordered a hundred MAX. They will be replacing A320s, A319s, and 757s by the end of the decade. Probably some 738s, too. As for system growth, DL can't sit on its hands and chant 'capacity discipline ' if the LCCs and United are growing rapidly.
 
WN732
Posts: 1034
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:43 am

Boof02671 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Article sums it up:

https://airlineweekly.com/2021/09/delta ... -in-fleet/


I still doubt they'll do it without getting MRO on that specific engine variant from CFM.

Personally hope that neither happens, as it's nice to have a major airline option that allows avoidance of the MAX; but will be interesting to see what eventually shakes out.


Are looking to avoid the MAX because of its history or because of the layout some airline have gone with?

I've flown on United's MAX8s and MAX9s, I would say in all honesty avoid United's MAX9s until they are refurbished and resemble our MAX8s, but our MAX8s are a nice ride in first class and coach.

Back to Delta I think at some point in the not too distant future they will more than likely order the MAX8 or maybe the MAX10.

Why would UA refurbish basically new planes?


Because they have an inferior product.
 
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keesje
Posts: 14621
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:06 pm

Boeing 717 & A319 replacement will probably be covered by A220-300's.
In the larger NB segment the A321 seems to becoming standard and many young 737-900ER's around.

=> Inbetween, 150 seats 3 class, is the battle ground now IMO.
Delta has ordered neither A320NEO's or 737-8. Delta A320 CEO & 737-800 mostly have 150 seats 3 class.

In total around about ~150 aircraft, aging already 20-25 yrs on average today. The clock is ticking.

- If Delta prioritizes A321 fleet pilot commonality -> A320NEO
- If Delta prioritizes strategically giving Boeing a boost, assure dual source policy / 739ER commonality -> 737-8
- If Delta prioritizes fuel efficiency and operating costs long term, A220 commonality -> A220-500 (talk to AF/KLM)..

Image
https://mentourpilot.com/airbus-a220-30 ... ing-again/

Future capacity - range growth capability longer term doesn't seem the most important for Delta. They committed to the A321 /737-900ER for that segment. I wouldn't be suprized if Boeing goes for the 737-8 for this 150 aircraft batch, also for long term strategic reasons

While they might be happy they hadn't jumped on the 737MAX ship, before things went South, they probably don't want to become overly dependent on Airbus.
Last edited by keesje on Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1702
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:11 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Article sums it up:

https://airlineweekly.com/2021/09/delta ... -in-fleet/


I still doubt they'll do it without getting MRO on that specific engine variant from CFM.

Personally hope that neither happens, as it's nice to have a major airline option that allows avoidance of the MAX; but will be interesting to see what eventually shakes out.


I'd rather they launch the A225 instead, much better flying experience.
 
DCA350
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm

Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:38 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
Real question I have about DL's fleet planning is when or if they'll order A35J's???

Just as an aside, it's A35K (ICAO) or 351 (IATA)

DL hasn't purchased anything larger than a 772 sized frame since the early '70s.
And considering that it currently has even more hubs/gateways to disburse its longhaul flows than it did then, it's rather doubtful that they'd start now.

Sure they had the NW 744s for a while, but they got rid of them in favor of an aircraft that's right back in their historical "comfort zone."

Anything can happen, but I'd personally be surprised (though delighted) to see an A35K in DL colors.


Unfortunately I agree.. Delta also runs a less premium cabin on average than AA/UA. I believe their A359s have 306 seats, in comparison AA's 777W, have only 304 .. An A350K in Delta's current configuration would be pushing 350 seats.. That is probably way too big given the amount of hubs they operate. Unless Delta decides to go more premium they don't need the extra space of the A350K for the foreseeable future.
 
DCA350
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm

Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:54 pm

I'm not the biggest MAX fan, but I've flown on it several times and it feels like a 737 with more powerful engines.. Luckily my flights were under 3 hours so I did not need to use the lavs.. Delta still has a lot of older A320s and 737s that will need to be retired by the end of the decade, so a MAX order is certainly not out of the question.. As much as I love the A321s, its a little too much capacity for every single domestic route so something smaller will be ordered, and I wouldn't rule out the MAX.
 
flyboy80
Posts: 2143
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:30 pm

I think the 320 NEO is too small, I expect DL will eventually go with the -8 max.

One thing I don't understand on A.net is the comparison game of "who wore it better" UA vs DL vs AA 737s. If you compare United and Delta 737-900ER and American's 737-800/-8 they all suck in terms of space and lavatory size. United does have the mid cabin lavatory and Delta has PTVs but at the end of the day they are all using the same "slimline" style main-cabin lavatory and are configured in a way thats tighter than Southwest- yet AA get the majority of the hate.

Delta's 737-800 are configured with 160 seats, but looking at the Comfort + cabin Delta could certainly afford to increase density on the 800. If Delta orders the -8max (when not if) I expect it to be at least one extra row of Y for 166, perhaps more if they reduce the front galley and aft lavatory size (DL -800s currently have the traditional sized lavatory and full forward galley vs the -900ER).
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: DL making media noise about purchasing 737MAX, again.

Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:40 pm

This is a DL MAX thread. Please take the widebody discussion to another thread.

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