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777Mech
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Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:14 am

Looks like a Hawaiian A330 (N396HA) had shut down an engine and diverted to Midway Atoll.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N386HA

A rescue flight has been set up and is enroute (N381HA)

Quite an arrival for an island with a population of 40.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:36 am

Happens on occasion. UA dropped a 789 in there earlier this year.

https://liveandletsfly.com/united-787-9-midway-atoll/
 
DL777200LR
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:44 am

777Mech wrote:
Looks like a Hawaiian A330 (N396HA) had shut down an engine and diverted to Midway Atoll.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N386HA

A rescue flight has been set up and is enroute (N381HA)

Quite an arrival for an island with a population of 40.


#1 eng indicated low oil quantity, confirmed on ground that eng is leaking oil and maintenance is at the a/c
 
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ua2162
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:01 am

Poor HA has had a rough two days. This and the two passenger disturbances yesterday has really kept them busy.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:09 am

DL777200LR wrote:
777Mech wrote:
Looks like a Hawaiian A330 (N396HA) had shut down an engine and diverted to Midway Atoll.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N386HA

A rescue flight has been set up and is enroute (N381HA)

Quite an arrival for an island with a population of 40.


#1 eng indicated low oil quantity, confirmed on ground that eng is leaking oil and maintenance is at the a/c

What maintenance is in Midway?
 
777Mech
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:32 am

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
DL777200LR wrote:
777Mech wrote:
Looks like a Hawaiian A330 (N396HA) had shut down an engine and diverted to Midway Atoll.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N386HA

A rescue flight has been set up and is enroute (N381HA)

Quite an arrival for an island with a population of 40.


#1 eng indicated low oil quantity, confirmed on ground that eng is leaking oil and maintenance is at the a/c

What maintenance is in Midway?


They flew in mechanics on the rescue flight.
 
kalvado
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:19 am

777Mech wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
DL777200LR wrote:

#1 eng indicated low oil quantity, confirmed on ground that eng is leaking oil and maintenance is at the a/c

What maintenance is in Midway?


They flew in mechanics on the rescue flight.

Oil leak sounds like something that can be managed using hand tools and some lifts.
I wonder if there are any plans for serious problems. Engine change seemingly may require shipping things by sea, with turnaround time of several weeks.
Are there any foreseeable problems which would require fixing on the spot with heavy special tools, as opposed to unpressurized ferry to mainland?
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:03 am

An engine change, see UA 777 cases, would be quite a challenge on Midway. My squadron did a trip in there when the USN left. I very much doubt any cranes, lifts, etc for an engine change are positioned there, just in case.
 
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zeke
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:42 pm

kalvado wrote:
Oil leak sounds like something that can be managed using hand tools and some lifts.


I would be inclined to ask to see if they can apply sealant as a temporary fix, fill the oil up and fly it somewhere non revenue where a more permanent repair can be made.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I very much doubt any cranes, lifts, etc for an engine change are positioned there, just in case.


We would not need a crane etc for an engine change, you can remove and lift an engine from the pylon

https://youtu.be/Hu83kKW1mZs
 
RB211trent
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:08 pm

zeke wrote:
kalvado wrote:
Oil leak sounds like something that can be managed using hand tools and some lifts.


I would be inclined to ask to see if they can apply sealant as a temporary fix, fill the oil up and fly it somewhere non revenue where a more permanent repair can be made.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I very much doubt any cranes, lifts, etc for an engine change are positioned there, just in case.


We would not need a crane etc for an engine change, you can remove and lift an engine from the pylon

https://youtu.be/Hu83kKW1mZs

You need a crane to swop the nose cowl, exhaust etc. Regarding the leak, if it’s not internal replacement parts/seals are needed. You can’t just bodge some sealant and hope for the best.
 
kalvado
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:12 pm

zeke wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I very much doubt any cranes, lifts, etc for an engine change are positioned there, just in case.


We would not need a crane etc for an engine change, you can remove and lift an engine from the pylon

https://youtu.be/Hu83kKW1mZs

Even in this video, there are pulleys attached the the pylon some 4 meters above the ground. Someone would also need to work up there to attach those pulleys and deal with thrust links.
Those should be heavy parts, and handling them with nothing more than bare hands doesn't look like a good idea. It may be something as basic as a cherry-picker, but it has to be there.
It may also be about a full cycle from ship to the plane. Even if the blue rig in the video is a part of the engine crate, it still has to come off the ship and travel at least a fraction of mile on the road and then come back. That thing doesn't look like it can be pulled by a pickup truck on gravel road.
 
travelsonic
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:19 pm

zeke wrote:
We would not need a crane etc for an engine change, you can remove and lift an engine from the pylon


IDK why, but when I read "lift an engine from the pylon," before viewing the video, I had a (probably completely wrong) mental image of something akin to the practice that contributed to AA191.
 
bourbon
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:31 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
Happens on occasion. UA dropped a 789 in there earlier this year.

https://liveandletsfly.com/united-787-9-midway-atoll/

They also had a 777 dip in there in 2014 operating HNL-GUM due to an avionics fan frying and the electric smell permeated through out the cabin causing fears of an inflight fire. Kind of a logistics nightmare as most insurance companies won’t cover a GA Jet to fly into MDY due to all the goony birds on the island.

Regarding an engine change - airlines have remote site change kits that includes hoists and boot straps plus all the miscellaneous tooling like wrenches, the headache would be the actual engine and engine stand - a fork lift would be needed to move the spare stand and engine under the wing
 
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cathay747
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:37 pm

zeke wrote:
kalvado wrote:
Oil leak sounds like something that can be managed using hand tools and some lifts.


I would be inclined to ask to see if they can apply sealant as a temporary fix, fill the oil up and fly it somewhere non revenue where a more permanent repair can be made.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I very much doubt any cranes, lifts, etc for an engine change are positioned there, just in case.


We would not need a crane etc for an engine change, you can remove and lift an engine from the pylon

https://youtu.be/Hu83kKW1mZs


It seems to me they could just do a single-engine ferry back to HNL. As an empty, non-revenue MX ferry flight, they can do that, IIRC.
 
foxalphazulu
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:46 pm

cathay747 wrote:
zeke wrote:
kalvado wrote:
Oil leak sounds like something that can be managed using hand tools and some lifts.


I would be inclined to ask to see if they can apply sealant as a temporary fix, fill the oil up and fly it somewhere non revenue where a more permanent repair can be made.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I very much doubt any cranes, lifts, etc for an engine change are positioned there, just in case.


We would not need a crane etc for an engine change, you can remove and lift an engine from the pylon

https://youtu.be/Hu83kKW1mZs


It seems to me they could just do a single-engine ferry back to HNL. As an empty, non-revenue MX ferry flight, they can do that, IIRC.



Can they?

Thought the CFR allows that for 4 engines with 1 inop: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.611
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:47 pm

Can a C-17 carry what's needed *and* land at MDY?
 
N292UX
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:23 pm

Didn't a DL 744 divert there a while back too? Or was it a different atoll?
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:47 pm

N292UX wrote:
Didn't a DL 744 divert there a while back too? Or was it a different atoll?


Indeed it did. According to Wikipedia:

On June 17, 2011, a Delta Air Lines Boeing 747-400 with 359 passengers and 19 crew made an emergency landing on Henderson, due to the captain's windshield having cracked. During the landing at Midway, the plane hit two birds, one of which damaged a wing flap.

Anyway, an oil leak should be fixable there. After all in 2004 a Continental 777 diverted to Midway atoll due to an oil leak and they had it fixed. They didn't even send in a replacement aircraft, just a Learjet with mechanics and supplies. After fixing the aircraft (which apparently didn't take that much time) they continued on their way.
 
CATIIIevery5yrs
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:39 pm

Just to clear things up, no one is doing a single engine ferry flight. I can’t imagine they’ll make anything less than a permanent fix on the island, no matter the logistics to do so.
.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:32 pm

I thought the "standard action" should the engine need to be swapped was to send out an AN-124 with new engine and all the equipment needed to make the swap.

There used to be a cool video showing DL's AOG team doing this when one of their birds ended up on Shemya in the Aleutians ( ref: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... a-reports/ ) . They even had a fuel truck onboard to top off the 777's tanks. Unfortunately I can't find that video right now.

I also thought a similar thing was done when the AF A380 ended up stranded in the Canadian Maritimes.

Hopefully they can fix the leak and continue on without needing such an expensive solution.

EDIT: I was thinking of DL's diversion to Cold Bay not Shemya, photos still online at https://www.flickr.com/photos/deltanews ... 5795134874

Our thread from four years ago: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1352671
 
SteelChair
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:48 pm

I believe there is such a thing as a "bootstrap kit" whereby an engine change can be completed without a crane. Loading the bootstrap kit onto the plane that is bringing the spare engine is a relatively small affair.

With an oil leak, it it conceivable that you could fix the leak and continue with the engine in service. There are some other considerations, how long was it windmilled, was there sufficient oil still in the engine during the windemilling, etc.

Also, it's highly, highly unlikely that there is an ETOPS qualified mechanic at Midway that is approved for Hawaiian.

Birds are a huge problem for aviation at Midway.
 
VMCA787
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:55 pm

foxalphazulu wrote:


Can they?

Thought the CFR allows that for 4 engines with 1 inop: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.611



Sorry to burst your bubble, but they can't. All of the engine out ferry flights are based on losing the second engine. So, on a twin, it's pretty hard to do one engine take off and then plan to lose that engine and continue the takeoff.

Engine out is only applicable on 3.4 engine aircraft.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:57 pm

zeke wrote:
kalvado wrote:
Oil leak sounds like something that can be managed using hand tools and some lifts.


I would be inclined to ask to see if they can apply sealant as a temporary fix, fill the oil up and fly it somewhere non revenue where a more permanent repair can be made.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I very much doubt any cranes, lifts, etc for an engine change are positioned there, just in case.


We would not need a crane etc for an engine change, you can remove and lift an engine from the pylon

https://youtu.be/Hu83kKW1mZs


Duct Tape it and get going, lol.
 
bourbon
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:53 pm

Revelation wrote:
I thought the "standard action" should the engine need to be swapped was to send out an AN-124 with new engine and all the equipment needed to make the swap.

There used to be a cool video showing DL's AOG team doing this when one of their birds ended up on Shemya in the Aleutians ( ref: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... a-reports/ ) . They even had a fuel truck onboard to top off the 777's tanks. Unfortunately I can't find that video right now.

I also thought a similar thing was done when the AF A380 ended up stranded in the Canadian Maritimes.

Hopefully they can fix the leak and continue on without needing such an expensive solution.

EDIT: I was thinking of DL's diversion to Cold Bay not Shemya, photos still online at https://www.flickr.com/photos/deltanews ... 5795134874

Our thread from four years ago: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1352671

Delta had to send a second engine and stand because it was so cold the replacement engine had lines freeze and crack. They sent a de ice truck and “donated” it to Cold Bay. AA had a 787 divert into there a few months earlier for an engine issue too.
 
777Mech
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:11 pm

SteelChair wrote:
I believe there is such a thing as a "bootstrap kit" whereby an engine change can be completed without a crane. Loading the bootstrap kit onto the plane that is bringing the spare engine is a relatively small affair.

With an oil leak, it it conceivable that you could fix the leak and continue with the engine in service. There are some other considerations, how long was it windmilled, was there sufficient oil still in the engine during the windemilling, etc.

Also, it's highly, highly unlikely that there is an ETOPS qualified mechanic at Midway that is approved for Hawaiian.

Birds are a huge problem for aviation at Midway.


Delta AMTs are carrying out an engine change. Engine windmilled over 60 minutes.
 
FGITD
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:40 pm

SteelChair wrote:
I believe there is such a thing as a "bootstrap kit" whereby an engine change can be completed without a crane. Loading the bootstrap kit onto the plane that is bringing the spare engine is a relatively small affair.


Was involved in an engine swap on a 77w awhile back, and the only use we had for a crane was to remove the cowlings and covers. Useful because we had access to one, but not entirely necessary. But we did indeed use the bootstrap kits.

I’m no mechanic, but the swap itself was pretty seamless. You fly in an engine on a stand, and an extra stand. Drop the old engine onto the empty stand and pull it away, line up the new engine on the stand and lift it into place.

Depending on what they opt to do, an antonov isn’t required either. Can fit an engine on a 777F easily
 
777Mech
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:18 pm

777Mech wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
I believe there is such a thing as a "bootstrap kit" whereby an engine change can be completed without a crane. Loading the bootstrap kit onto the plane that is bringing the spare engine is a relatively small affair.

With an oil leak, it it conceivable that you could fix the leak and continue with the engine in service. There are some other considerations, how long was it windmilled, was there sufficient oil still in the engine during the windemilling, etc.

Also, it's highly, highly unlikely that there is an ETOPS qualified mechanic at Midway that is approved for Hawaiian.

Birds are a huge problem for aviation at Midway.


Delta AMTs are carrying out an engine change. Engine windmilled over 60 minutes.


Scratch that, engineering has approved a ferry, they will be leaving out in a couple hours after high power engine runs are complete.
 
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zeke
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:01 pm

777Mech wrote:
Engine windmilled over 60 minutes.


Doesn’t the good book say 10 hrs.
 
tys777
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:35 am

 
BOSAero
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:58 am

Airplane currently on its way back to HNL.
 
BOSAero
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:19 am

https://youtu.be/UcI-pMC1ALA

Delta landed a 747 on Midway some years ago.
 
STLflyer
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:48 am

Out of curiosity, if the mechanics have to spend a few days on the island to fix the plane, what services are available for them? I'm guessing there's not much in the way of hotels and restaurants on the island. Are they stuck sleeping in the business class seats and eating whatever they can find in the galley?
 
edealinfo
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:11 am

STLflyer wrote:
Out of curiosity, if the mechanics have to spend a few days on the island to fix the plane, what services are available for them? I'm guessing there's not much in the way of hotels and restaurants on the island. Are they stuck sleeping in the business class seats and eating whatever they can find in the galley?


I suppose they could fish.
 
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ssteve
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:26 am

STLflyer wrote:
Out of curiosity, if the mechanics have to spend a few days on the island to fix the plane, what services are available for them? I'm guessing there's not much in the way of hotels and restaurants on the island. Are they stuck sleeping in the business class seats and eating whatever they can find in the galley?


After the inevitable scavenging, they return home pariahs, dead albatrosses hung about their necks.
 
Newark727
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:50 am

STLflyer wrote:
Out of curiosity, if the mechanics have to spend a few days on the island to fix the plane, what services are available for them? I'm guessing there's not much in the way of hotels and restaurants on the island. Are they stuck sleeping in the business class seats and eating whatever they can find in the galley?


You could try DoorDash, but I think they'd charge extra.
 
LTEN11
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:13 am

FGITD wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
I believe there is such a thing as a "bootstrap kit" whereby an engine change can be completed without a crane. Loading the bootstrap kit onto the plane that is bringing the spare engine is a relatively small affair.


Was involved in an engine swap on a 77w awhile back, and the only use we had for a crane was to remove the cowlings and covers. Useful because we had access to one, but not entirely necessary. But we did indeed use the bootstrap kits.

I’m no mechanic, but the swap itself was pretty seamless. You fly in an engine on a stand, and an extra stand. Drop the old engine onto the empty stand and pull it away, line up the new engine on the stand and lift it into place.

Depending on what they opt to do, an antonov isn’t required either. Can fit an engine on a 777F easily


Just curious, if there aren't any ULD loaders at Midway, let alone main deck ones, how are you going to get the engine off that 777F ?

Now I know they keep a set of air stairs at Midway for these occasional diversions, but I don't know if there a cargo loader there.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:41 am

STLflyer wrote:
Out of curiosity, if the mechanics have to spend a few days on the island to fix the plane, what services are available for them? I'm guessing there's not much in the way of hotels and restaurants on the island. Are they stuck sleeping in the business class seats and eating whatever they can find in the galley?


Aren't there 40 or so US Fish & Wildlife Service staff there full time? So you'd think there would be some food and at least rudimentary lodging available.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:02 am

STLflyer wrote:
Out of curiosity, if the mechanics have to spend a few days on the island to fix the plane, what services are available for them? I'm guessing there's not much in the way of hotels and restaurants on the island. Are they stuck sleeping in the business class seats and eating whatever they can find in the galley?


Baby Jesus invented tents for a reason.

Restaurant? Gimme a break.

A couple of days with shelf stable rations and rudimentary shelter should be little inconvenience to most people.
L
 
Jshank83
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:31 am

STLflyer wrote:
Out of curiosity, if the mechanics have to spend a few days on the island to fix the plane, what services are available for them? I'm guessing there's not much in the way of hotels and restaurants on the island. Are they stuck sleeping in the business class seats and eating whatever they can find in the galley?


https://www.fws.gov/refuge/Midway_Atoll ... vices_Fees

Lodging $125/night/room
Meals $65/day
Meals to go (when available) $20/meal
 
Boof02671
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:07 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
An engine change, see UA 777 cases, would be quite a challenge on Midway. My squadron did a trip in there when the USN left. I very much doubt any cranes, lifts, etc for an engine change are positioned there, just in case.

Very easy to fly all that in on a cargo plane

I’ve loaded a 747 with an RB211 and all the tooling and kits needed to change an engine. And believe it or not a small drive around crane.
 
LTEN11
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:03 am

Boof02671 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
An engine change, see UA 777 cases, would be quite a challenge on Midway. My squadron did a trip in there when the USN left. I very much doubt any cranes, lifts, etc for an engine change are positioned there, just in case.

Very easy to fly all that in on a cargo plane

I’ve loaded a 747 with an RB211 and all the tooling and kits needed to change an engine. And believe it or not a small drive around crane.


How did all that gear unloaded ? I ask as do we know if MDY has cargo loaders that 1) reach the belly cargo holds 2) reach the main deck ? You would assume there are available forklifts on the island, but are they big enough to reach the main deck of a freighter to unload an engine ? Without these cargo handling luxuries, you would need an aircraft with ramps, such as the AN124, etc
 
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zeke
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:32 am

LTEN11 wrote:
How did all that gear unloaded ? I ask as do we know if MDY has cargo loaders that 1) reach the belly cargo holds 2) reach the main deck ? You would assume there are available forklifts on the island, but are they big enough to reach the main deck of a freighter to unload an engine ? Without these cargo handling luxuries, you would need an aircraft with ramps, such as the AN124, etc


Just about any sort of heavy equipment you would expect at any airport is available in MDY, they also have heavy equipment for unloading large shipping containers. This includes bulldozers, mobile cranes, telehandlers, large forklifts capable of stacking 40 ft shipping containers, fire trucks are on the atoll.

The question is not are the physically present, it’s how do you get access to them, who operates them, and how they get paid for.

As MDY is a common port to support EDTO for the airline, and I understand also an occasional charter destination, I would be very surprised if they don’t already have arraignments in place.
 
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:15 pm

 
cschleic
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:17 pm

zeke wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
How did all that gear unloaded ? I ask as do we know if MDY has cargo loaders that 1) reach the belly cargo holds 2) reach the main deck ? You would assume there are available forklifts on the island, but are they big enough to reach the main deck of a freighter to unload an engine ? Without these cargo handling luxuries, you would need an aircraft with ramps, such as the AN124, etc


Just about any sort of heavy equipment you would expect at any airport is available in MDY, they also have heavy equipment for unloading large shipping containers. This includes bulldozers, mobile cranes, telehandlers, large forklifts capable of stacking 40 ft shipping containers, fire trucks are on the atoll.

The question is not are the physically present, it’s how do you get access to them, who operates them, and how they get paid for.

As MDY is a common port to support EDTO for the airline, and I understand also an occasional charter destination, I would be very surprised if they don’t already have arraignments in place.


Doesn't an airport have to have a certain amount of equipment to be an eligible diversion alternative?
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:25 pm

asuflyer wrote:


Looks like they have a good idea of what failed and caused the leak and are ready to repair it there with how little gear they show.

Really doesn't look like prepping for an engine change. More like replacing a seal and filling the engine up with those 4 boxes of oil.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:34 pm

Spacepope wrote:
[Looks like they have a good idea of what failed and caused the leak and are ready to repair it there with how little gear they show.

Really doesn't look like prepping for an engine change. More like replacing a seal and filling the engine up with those 4 boxes of oil.


Good point. Your observations are consistent with our friend from DL who indicated that at first DL was going to send an engine and a team to change it out to MDW, but that maint had instead authorized a ferry.

Does DL do all of HAL's engine maint, or did HAL simply reach out for a great AOG team?
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:43 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
[Looks like they have a good idea of what failed and caused the leak and are ready to repair it there with how little gear they show.

Really doesn't look like prepping for an engine change. More like replacing a seal and filling the engine up with those 4 boxes of oil.


Good point. Your observations are consistent with our friend from DL who indicated that at first DL was going to send an engine and a team to change it out to MDW, but that maint had instead authorized a ferry.

Does DL do all of HAL's engine maint, or did HAL simply reach out for a great AOG team?


I was confused by that previous comment abut DL. It sounded like the commenter was speaking of a different incident, with DL making a landing there after an engine failure (2011 747 landing?). It wasn't very clear to me, but seeing who that poster was, I'll take their word for it.

In any case, a ferry flight with a potential sketchy engine out of Midway sounds like an interesting job.
 
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CrimsonNL
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:43 pm

LTEN11 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
An engine change, see UA 777 cases, would be quite a challenge on Midway. My squadron did a trip in there when the USN left. I very much doubt any cranes, lifts, etc for an engine change are positioned there, just in case.

Very easy to fly all that in on a cargo plane

I’ve loaded a 747 with an RB211 and all the tooling and kits needed to change an engine. And believe it or not a small drive around crane.


How did all that gear unloaded ? I ask as do we know if MDY has cargo loaders that 1) reach the belly cargo holds 2) reach the main deck ? You would assume there are available forklifts on the island, but are they big enough to reach the main deck of a freighter to unload an engine ? Without these cargo handling luxuries, you would need an aircraft with ramps, such as the AN124, etc


Google maps of all places, seems to have the entire island covered including the airport (taken in 2012). There doesn't seem to be much equipment there at all at the time. You can even look inside the hangar but there's nothing noteworthy in there;

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.2100051 ... 312!8i6656

(and holy cow look at the number of Albatrosses across the various viewpoints on the isle!)
 
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Coronado990
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:52 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
[Looks like they have a good idea of what failed and caused the leak and are ready to repair it there with how little gear they show.

Really doesn't look like prepping for an engine change. More like replacing a seal and filling the engine up with those 4 boxes of oil.


Good point. Your observations are consistent with our friend from DL who indicated that at first DL was going to send an engine and a team to change it out to MDW, but that maint had instead authorized a ferry.

Does DL do all of HAL's engine maint, or did HAL simply reach out for a great AOG team?


Perhaps Delta went to the wrong Midway.
 
Dalmd88
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Re: Hawaiian 460 diversion into MDY (Sand Island, Midway Atoll)

Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:11 pm

Midway Island is a manned airport that is a regular fueling stopping point for US military flights that are transiting the Pacific. The US Air Force runs the airport, mostly with contractors. They have a hotel, restaurant, store and all the basic equipment needed to off load an engine from a cargo flight.

I know two of the Delta AMT's that were involved in the last Delta engine change that occurred there. They were part of a team that was working another project in NRT and were sent to Midway to do the engine change. I believe it was a 767 that diverted. The rescue plane was a 757 from the NRT Interpol fleet. They along with the NRT baggage staff had to hand unload all the 767 containers and load the 757. Then they waited for the engine and change kit to arrive on a Kallita 747 from the mainland. It was a boring wait. Not much to do on that little island.

Once Kallita arrived, It was I believe the Memorial Day holiday. the contractors. who were the only ones allowed to drive the fork lift, only unloaded the 747 and would not move any more. Only after calls to the DOD in the Pentagon did the contractors grudgingly work on the holiday so they could move the new engine to the airplane. My buddies called it the road trip to hell. The rare Midway Passport stamp and t-shirt from the store were not worth it.

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