New Zealand Aviation thread - October 2021

DavidByrne · Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:55 pm

NZ6 wrote:
On one hand, I think it's fair to suspect Ardmore could end up like like Whenuapai or worse, Hobsonville. The later is now notihng but high density urban housing with the only signs of it's aviation heritage being a few street names.

Yes, it's possible Ardmore could close, but there's nothing at all to suggest this will happen, and I doubt it will happen if Ardmore continues to operate as it does - a busy GA field. I'm a bit bemused, though, by your comment about Hobsonville. It has actually retained some of the key aviation infrastructure and repurposed it - not least the big flying boat hangar near the ferry wharf and several other significant heritage buildings. Most recently Hobsonville was the home to a handful of helicopters and the SAS, and hasn't been a proper airfield for decades. And as a housing area it's arguably the very best that we've seen to date anywhere in Auckland - both for design and sustainability. It was never, ever going to stay an airfield long term - it served very little purpose.

NZ6 · Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:59 pm

MillwallSean wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
That is very interesting you raise a lot of points NZ6. So there is so many things to consider before making a decision on getting a 100-120 seat jet.

On another note one of the well regarded Air NZ execs is leaving the company to become the next chief executive at Auckland airport. Her move to the airport company may enhance the working relationship between the two on an operational level.
That could fast track the new terminal upgrade sooner rather than later.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/top ... GSTGBVIFI/

More clueless management coming
PLS bring in people not based on local experience from a non airport business, but from running world-class airports. How hard is it to recruit from say SG or HK presently?
Those people know whats needed, an exec from NZ has no clue and will continue to have insular approaches. Saddens me.
We need the best people and the best people aren't found on these shores. Ah well another lost opportunity and more of old boys/girls network rather than recruiting on competence.

Ah well, its what it is. More of the same. So lets not expect anything besides what matters to Air NZ to happen.

Can you find some better examples? I mean using two airports from landlock countries (yes HK isn't a country, it's an 'administrative region of China') who rely heavily on their state owner airports isn't exactly the same as little of AKL is it??

We could look at the economic impact the airport has to the respective economies.... or we can look at how much the HK and SG governments are willing to invest to keep their 'hub' as a leading airport to transit via?

I'm not a fan of AIAL as many know. But AKL doesn't have that same level playing field so how can we be so sure those CEO's would be any different?

I also suspect AIAL wouldn't be able to compete by way of salary for an experienced airport CEO's with other airports out there.

Out of interest are you suggesting if we appointed the current SG/HK Airport CEO to AKL we'd see an airport of that standard here as a result?

DavidByrne · Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:00 pm

MillwallSean wrote:
Those people know whats needed, an exec from NZ has no clue and will continue to have insular approaches. Saddens me.
We need the best people and the best people aren't found on these shores.

Complete speculation and a real slap-down for Carrie Hurihanganui. On what basis can you demonstrate she has no clue? Just saying that it is so doesn't actually make it so. Very unfair comment.

NZ6 · Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:04 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
On one hand, I think it's fair to suspect Ardmore could end up like like Whenuapai or worse, Hobsonville. The later is now notihng but high density urban housing with the only signs of it's aviation heritage being a few street names.

Yes, it's possible Ardmore could close, but there's nothing at all to suggest this will happen, and I doubt it will happen if Ardmore continues to operate as it does - a busy GA field. I'm a bit bemused, though, by your comment about Hobsonville. It has actually retained some of the key aviation infrastructure and repurposed it - not least the big flying boat hangar near the ferry wharf and several other significant heritage buildings. Most recently Hobsonville was the home to a handful of helicopters and the SAS, and hasn't been a proper airfield for decades. And as a housing area it's arguably the very best that we've seen to date anywhere in Auckland - both for design and sustainability. It was never, ever going to stay an airfield long term - it served very little purpose.

After posting I did recall the hanger down by the pier. It's used for the local market now I believe. Although I was going to edit my post, I wasn't sure if it was actually part of the original airbase or part of the marine industry / film industry that existed during the later stages before being closed.

But you're right, there's some more links than a few street signs - either way it's a long way from the late 90's where there was actually a grass landing strip there.

Kiwings · Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:21 am

DavidByrne wrote:
MillwallSean wrote:
Those people know whats needed, an exec from NZ has no clue and will continue to have insular approaches. Saddens me.
We need the best people and the best people aren't found on these shores.

Complete speculation and a real slap-down for Carrie Hurihanganui. On what basis can you demonstrate she has no clue? Just saying that it is so doesn't actually make it so. Very unfair comment.

Think you might find very mixed feelings amongst Air NZ staff abour this appointment.

NPL8800 · Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:59 am

Kiwings wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
MillwallSean wrote:
Those people know whats needed, an exec from NZ has no clue and will continue to have insular approaches. Saddens me.
We need the best people and the best people aren't found on these shores.

Complete speculation and a real slap-down for Carrie Hurihanganui. On what basis can you demonstrate she has no clue? Just saying that it is so doesn't actually make it so. Very unfair comment.

Think you might find very mixed feelings amongst Air NZ staff abour this appointment.

No doubt many at AKL feel the same way too, it will be interesting to see how it plays out, brining operational experience will be a good bit of fresh air to that level of the business and as long as things remain impartial amongst all airline customers/stakeholders it could make for quite a different style of leadership and company direction/focus.

I'm sorry but I don't for one minute buy the comment further up that the best people/talent are offshore and it is a bit of a smack in the face for all the very hard working aviation/airport leaders in this country that will get passed over often for this supposedly superior "overseas talent". There are plenty of examples out there where overseas people have come in and really let company's down big time, I'm not for one minute saying that only nzers should be hired for these roles but rather that it's very unfair to paint the people here as unsuitable for senior leadership roles at our leading infrastructure.

What is also refreshing about this appointment is that it moves away from the usual teleco, fonterra, fast moving consumer goods leadership group that seem to constantly rotate amongst nzs blue chip company's leadership panels.

NZ516 · Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:04 am

Not looking good for the proposed Tarras International Airport with 87% of locals against it.

https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-o ... ear-survey

DavidByrne · Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:40 am

NZ516 wrote:
Not looking good for the proposed Tarras International Airport with 87% of locals against it.

https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-o ... ear-survey

Absolutely predictable, but when it comes down to it, whether people "like" the idea or "dislike" the idea will count for little. What will count is the impact that it ACTUALLY will have on their lives, homes/farms/businesses and properties. The planning laws are (fortunately) not a popularity contest. If they were, nothing would ever get built anywhere!

NZ6 · Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:24 am

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Not looking good for the proposed Tarras International Airport with 87% of locals against it.

https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-o ... ear-survey

Absolutely predictable, but when it comes down to it, whether people "like" the idea or "dislike" the idea will count for little. What will count is the impact that it ACTUALLY will have on their lives, homes/farms/businesses and properties. The planning laws are (fortunately) not a popularity contest. If they were, nothing would ever get built anywhere!

I was going to reply and thought, why bother. First time I know!

This is so predicable and counts for very little. Just changes the way CIAL needs to go about it. The courts will decide the final outcome. We've all known that's how it it'll be decided.

Kiwirob · Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:25 am

NZ516 wrote:
Not looking good for the proposed Tarras International Airport with 87% of locals against it.

https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-o ... ear-survey

They will like it when there property prices increase and the jobs the new airport will offer there younger people.

zkncj · Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:26 am

So looks like the KKE/WRE-WLG might of just come to an end, with Northland moving to level 3 tonight.

GW54 · Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:42 pm

The lockdown for Northlannd is currently until 2359 Tuesday night. I don't think Air NZ will act to quickly given how successful both routes have been. I believe there is every likely hood they will become permanent.

NZ516 · Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:21 pm

The lockdown will be extended past Tuesday. The KKE and WRE flights will be only for essential travel same with Hamilton so won't be open to holiday makers.

LamboAston · Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:24 am

NZ6 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Auckland is going to have a major issues in the next 10-50 years, if they every want another Airport. Both site that could of been expanded are now being rapidly built in with houses.

First, there's nothing that suggests Ardmore is slated for closure, just an emotive appeal on FB which is trying to get the neighbouring housing development canned. And there's never been a hint of a suggestion that Whenuapai should be (physically) expanded either, even though creating a second commercial airport has had its boosters (like Sir Bob Harvey as Mayor of the former Waitakere City).

But seriously, there's no need for another airport in Auckland, and no need to even think about one for the future. If AKL eventually proves too small for the traffic then there's always the long-planned second runway. And there's always the prospect of using HLZ for medium-haul flights if required.

On one hand, I think it's fair to suspect Ardmore could end up like like Whenuapai or worse, Hobsonville. The later is now notihng but high density urban housing with the only signs of it's aviation heritage being a few street names. Whenuapai is quickly becoming landlocked as well. With 5 Squadron being forced south to Ohakea and should 40 Squadron follow when the 757's are replaced it would almost certainly spell the end for this base as well.

On the other hand, we could look at Van Nuys in Los Angeles and argue is doesn't need to close even with urban development around it. This is one of the busiest General Aviation Airports in the world and while it has some industrial buildings directly surrounding it, you can see housing is very close - https://goo.gl/maps/y45zbH3v4QHbHgZ98

Auckland does need a second airport for all it's general aviation activity not for normal airlines. AKL can't pick that up and what's the alternative?

Parakai (NZPI), Dairy Flat (NZNE), Kaipara Flats (NZKF), Mercer (NZME) - technically in the Waikato.

Ardmore was once a race track so I doubt they'll get any type of heritage protection. The items at the airport would if that's possible. But one could argue to move Warbirds away from Auckland?!?

They should be working to protect their operation long term so we don't end up with another Western Springs or Eden park where locals move in and complain of noise.

All of the first 3 airports mentioned would struggle to increase their size to cope with the larger aircraft at Ardmore due to terrain. Parakai has a steep hill at one end that either requires a steep decent or a rather late turn to final. North Shore is a banana footpath of a runway, so the slope would make it prohibitive. Challenging enough in a Cessna 172. Kaipara flats is surrounded by terrain.

As a general aviation pilot myself, you're always worried about where you're gonna go when the engine quits. It happens, and if your only option is to ditch into housing, there's almost guaranteed fatalities. It's bad enough at Woodbourne and Omaka with the vineyards.

NZ6 · Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:54 am

LamboAston wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
First, there's nothing that suggests Ardmore is slated for closure, just an emotive appeal on FB which is trying to get the neighbouring housing development canned. And there's never been a hint of a suggestion that Whenuapai should be (physically) expanded either, even though creating a second commercial airport has had its boosters (like Sir Bob Harvey as Mayor of the former Waitakere City).

But seriously, there's no need for another airport in Auckland, and no need to even think about one for the future. If AKL eventually proves too small for the traffic then there's always the long-planned second runway. And there's always the prospect of using HLZ for medium-haul flights if required.

On one hand, I think it's fair to suspect Ardmore could end up like like Whenuapai or worse, Hobsonville. The later is now notihng but high density urban housing with the only signs of it's aviation heritage being a few street names. Whenuapai is quickly becoming landlocked as well. With 5 Squadron being forced south to Ohakea and should 40 Squadron follow when the 757's are replaced it would almost certainly spell the end for this base as well.

On the other hand, we could look at Van Nuys in Los Angeles and argue is doesn't need to close even with urban development around it. This is one of the busiest General Aviation Airports in the world and while it has some industrial buildings directly surrounding it, you can see housing is very close - https://goo.gl/maps/y45zbH3v4QHbHgZ98

Auckland does need a second airport for all it's general aviation activity not for normal airlines. AKL can't pick that up and what's the alternative?

Parakai (NZPI), Dairy Flat (NZNE), Kaipara Flats (NZKF), Mercer (NZME) - technically in the Waikato.

Ardmore was once a race track so I doubt they'll get any type of heritage protection. The items at the airport would if that's possible. But one could argue to move Warbirds away from Auckland?!?

They should be working to protect their operation long term so we don't end up with another Western Springs or Eden park where locals move in and complain of noise.

All of the first 3 airports mentioned would struggle to increase their size to cope with the larger aircraft at Ardmore due to terrain. Parakai has a steep hill at one end that either requires a steep decent or a rather late turn to final. North Shore is a banana footpath of a runway, so the slope would make it prohibitive. Challenging enough in a Cessna 172. Kaipara flats is surrounded by terrain.

As a general aviation pilot myself, you're always worried about where you're gonna go when the engine quits. It happens, and if your only option is to ditch into housing, there's almost guaranteed fatalities. It's bad enough at Woodbourne and Omaka with the vineyards.

Just for clarification - that was sort of my point. None of those are suitable. There are multiple issues with each.

zkncj · Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:57 am

Has anyone tired to setup the IATA travel pass application, with an New Zealand passport yet?

I just tired this afternoon, with New Zealand passport on an iPhone 13 an failed to get it going.

1. Scanning the detail on the machine readable strip doesn’t works
Which is ok, as I you can manually enter.
2. When you try todo the NFC validation, it can’t find an New Zealand passport (was an 2019 issued passport).

NZ801 · Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:45 am

NZ516 wrote:
Air NZ operated a charter flight NZ1980 from Christchurch to Rarotonga last night a departure of 2127 using 787 ZK-NZM. This is the first international flight NZ has flown from CHC in a long time.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/id/ ... 56-adhoc-0

Unless I’m missing something in this post, this isn’t correct. NZ have been regularly running flights to LAX and PVG from CHC.

ZK-NBT · Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:01 am

NZ801 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Air NZ operated a charter flight NZ1980 from Christchurch to Rarotonga last night a departure of 2127 using 787 ZK-NZM. This is the first international flight NZ has flown from CHC in a long time.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/id/ ... 56-adhoc-0

Unless I’m missing something in this post, this isn’t correct. NZ have been regularly running flights to LAX and PVG from CHC.

Also CAN, all freight of course. What was the RAR flight for?

NZ516 · Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:31 am

NZ801 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Air NZ operated a charter flight NZ1980 from Christchurch to Rarotonga last night a departure of 2127 using 787 ZK-NZM. This is the first international flight NZ has flown from CHC in a long time.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/id/ ... 56-adhoc-0

Unless I’m missing something in this post, this isn’t correct. NZ have been regularly running flights to LAX and PVG from CHC.

The flight to RAR was with passengers some sort of charter and the other flights are cargo only. It's been a while since we had a international flight with passengers was what I mean.

zkncj · Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:32 pm

NZ516 wrote:
NZ801 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Air NZ operated a charter flight NZ1980 from Christchurch to Rarotonga last night a departure of 2127 using 787 ZK-NZM. This is the first international flight NZ has flown from CHC in a long time.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/id/ ... 56-adhoc-0

Unless I’m missing something in this post, this isn’t correct. NZ have been regularly running flights to LAX and PVG from CHC.

The flight to RAR was with passengers some sort of charter and the other flights are cargo only. It's been a while since we had a international flight with passengers was what I mean.

My understanding was the CHC-RAR was an flight organised by the Cook Island Government. It was to get Cook Islanders home from places outside of Auckland, who have been stuck here since the bubble closed.

NZ516 · Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:45 pm

It's not looking good for aerospace companies with many looking to leave NZ due to the lack of MIQ spots another disappointment caused by closed borders.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/12661590 ... s#comments

NZ6 · Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:30 am

NZ516 wrote:
It's not looking good for aerospace companies with many looking to leave NZ due to the lack of MIQ spots another disappointment caused by closed borders.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/12661590 ... s#comments

I think sometimes you miss interrupt things in the media..

This paragraph says it all for me

"A recent survey of 24 aerospace businesses found about a third were considering moving at least some of their operations overseas because the lack of MIQ slots made it impossible to get key staff in and out of the country."

A third of 24 is 8, they say about a third so probably more likely 7 as it's not a round portion and it would be rounded up for effect. This was from a survey where they were considering moving some of their operations...

Nothing's set in stone so it nothing can be confirmed if it's long term moves, temporary measures etc etc. Why after 18months when we're almost at the end would you now move?

Don't get me wrong. I think the MIQ system is a dog but let's put this in perspective.

NZ6 · Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:38 am

Fiji is opening up…

NZ516 · Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:54 pm

NZ6 wrote:
Fiji is opening up…

Good for Fiji but Kiwis can't visit Fiji and then get back home so it's not any help. Perhaps next year or the year after no one can put a date on it yet.

NZ516 · Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:04 pm

It's been 35 years since SQ the first long haul airline started serving CHC, and they have always kept serving our city well done SQ for commitment. It was a cold southerly wind blowing for the arrival. So the celebrations on the tarmac were quickly wound up as soon as the Maori dancers had finished their act as all were desperate to get inside. Here is a story on the event

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2 ... hurch.html

NZ6 · Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:44 pm

NZ516 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Fiji is opening up…

Good for Fiji but Kiwis can't visit Fiji and then get back home so it's not any help. Perhaps next year or the year after no one can put a date on it yet.

Yes, that wasn't lost on me (or anyone else I suspect). But it's a positive step forward for those wanting to travel when we finally relax out border rules.

aerojoe · Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:45 pm

Quick question, with the recent reporting in media on teh level of government assistance to NZ for airfreight capacity is it likely we will see NZ invest in a freighter?

NZ6 · Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:56 pm

aerojoe wrote:
Quick question, with the recent reporting in media on teh level of government assistance to NZ for airfreight capacity is it likely we will see NZ invest in a freighter?

I wouldn't suspect so. The assistance was based on keeping critical air links open while the passenger border was closed. That'll stop next year and as passenger services resume.

Also, thinking aloud - NZ has essentially had 10-15 (end of passenger life) aircraft at their disposal which they would've/could've converted if they had wanted to go down this path.

PA515 · Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:50 pm

Air NZ A320-271N ZK-NHE (msn 10569) F-WWDR may have had it's acceptance flight about 10 hours ago.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/f-wwdr

PA515

NZ6 · Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:16 am

Anyone in Auckland not vaccinated and keen to get onboard a 787. Super Saturday will give you that chance. Get a Jab in C class and wait your 20 mins back in economy....

ZaphodHarkonnen · Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:20 am

NZ6 wrote:
Anyone in Auckland not vaccinated and keen to get onboard a 787. Super Saturday will give you that chance. Get a Jab in C class and wait your 20 mins back in economy....

JabASeat https://twitter.com/flyairnz/status/1448142042308116482

NZ6 · Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:27 am

AWK92 Departed AKL 1418hrs flown over GIS near NPE, over TUO and heading back in to AKL?

Any ideas?

77west · Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:03 am

NZ6 wrote:
aerojoe wrote:
Quick question, with the recent reporting in media on teh level of government assistance to NZ for airfreight capacity is it likely we will see NZ invest in a freighter?

I wouldn't suspect so. The assistance was based on keeping critical air links open while the passenger border was closed. That'll stop next year and as passenger services resume.

Also, thinking aloud - NZ has essentially had 10-15 (end of passenger life) aircraft at their disposal which they would've/could've converted if they had wanted to go down this path.

Not a true converted freighter though, I didnt think a program existed for A320 or 777-200ER

NZ6 · Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:27 am

77west wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
aerojoe wrote:
Quick question, with the recent reporting in media on teh level of government assistance to NZ for airfreight capacity is it likely we will see NZ invest in a freighter?

I wouldn't suspect so. The assistance was based on keeping critical air links open while the passenger border was closed. That'll stop next year and as passenger services resume.

Also, thinking aloud - NZ has essentially had 10-15 (end of passenger life) aircraft at their disposal which they would've/could've converted if they had wanted to go down this path.

Not a true converted freighter though, I didnt think a program existed for A320 or 777-200ER

Maybe it just hasn't yet been done? - Doesn't mean it can't be!

It was considered - https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indust ... freighters

77west · Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:33 am

NZ6 wrote:
77west wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

I wouldn't suspect so. The assistance was based on keeping critical air links open while the passenger border was closed. That'll stop next year and as passenger services resume.

Also, thinking aloud - NZ has essentially had 10-15 (end of passenger life) aircraft at their disposal which they would've/could've converted if they had wanted to go down this path.

Not a true converted freighter though, I didnt think a program existed for A320 or 777-200ER

Maybe it just hasn't yet been done? - Doesn't mean it can't be!

It was considered - https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indust ... freighters

I believe that would have been removing cabin fittings and installing cargo lashing system but would still be loaded via passenger doors not a true side cargo door. The passenger 777-200ER floor is CFRP and is not strong enough to handle full cargo pallets and would be uneconomical to replace apparently. Not sure on the A320 - I know there is an A321CEO P2F available as QF has a few.

NZ6 · Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:54 am

77west wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
77west wrote:

Not a true converted freighter though, I didnt think a program existed for A320 or 777-200ER

Maybe it just hasn't yet been done? - Doesn't mean it can't be!

It was considered - https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indust ... freighters

I believe that would have been removing cabin fittings and installing cargo lashing system but would still be loaded via passenger doors not a true side cargo door. The passenger 777-200ER floor is CFRP and is not strong enough to handle full cargo pallets and would be uneconomical to replace apparently. Not sure on the A320 - I know there is an A321CEO P2F available as QF has a few.

I believe that was an issue with the current structural design but doesn't mean it's not impossible. I guess like everything it comes down to cost, but if the original question was buying new dedicated planes - surely this would be cheaper?

A couple of links - first one is a bit old. Second one references the 300ER which could also be an option.

https://www.flightglobal.com/boeing-rev ... 40.article
https://aviationweek.com/mro/aircraft-p ... -feedstock

77west · Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:57 am

NZ6 wrote:
77west wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

Maybe it just hasn't yet been done? - Doesn't mean it can't be!

It was considered - https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indust ... freighters

I believe that would have been removing cabin fittings and installing cargo lashing system but would still be loaded via passenger doors not a true side cargo door. The passenger 777-200ER floor is CFRP and is not strong enough to handle full cargo pallets and would be uneconomical to replace apparently. Not sure on the A320 - I know there is an A321CEO P2F available as QF has a few.

I believe that was an issue with the current structural design but doesn't mean it's not impossible. I guess like everything it costs down to cost but if the original question was buying new dedicated planes - surely this would be cheaper?

A couple of links - first one is a bit old. Second one references the 300ER which could also be an option.

https://www.flightglobal.com/boeing-rev ... 40.article
https://aviationweek.com/mro/aircraft-p ... -feedstock

Yeah the 777-300ER does have a program and the first one is being done now. But way to big for NZ. And new would be pricey. Ironic if they bought back a couple of the old 767-319ER and got them converted. But I think the belly cargo capacity will be plenty going forwards.

ZK-NBT · Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:31 am

77west wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
77west wrote:

I believe that would have been removing cabin fittings and installing cargo lashing system but would still be loaded via passenger doors not a true side cargo door. The passenger 777-200ER floor is CFRP and is not strong enough to handle full cargo pallets and would be uneconomical to replace apparently. Not sure on the A320 - I know there is an A321CEO P2F available as QF has a few.

I believe that was an issue with the current structural design but doesn't mean it's not impossible. I guess like everything it costs down to cost but if the original question was buying new dedicated planes - surely this would be cheaper?

A couple of links - first one is a bit old. Second one references the 300ER which could also be an option.

https://www.flightglobal.com/boeing-rev ... 40.article
https://aviationweek.com/mro/aircraft-p ... -feedstock

Yeah the 777-300ER does have a program and the first one is being done now. But way to big for NZ. And new would be pricey. Ironic if they bought back a couple of the old 767-319ER and got them converted. But I think the belly cargo capacity will be plenty going forwards.

Given how long this whole thing has gone on for I am surprised NZ didn't remove seats from 2-3 77Ws or atleast 789s, they did look at it on the 772 early in the pandemic and decided against it. But a pair of 77Ws to cover a daily LAX run and maybe a third to cover 1-2 other routes might have made sense, the likes of PVG which is mainly PPE would probably suffice with the 789 given its all very light weight.

I am guessing it would be fairly unlikely NZ would go back to dedicated Freighters now, they used LH MD11s for 4 years and then 5X 744s for another 4 between 2001/09 and always brough space on PO, EZ before that. Since 2009 they have just relied on belly freight, not to say it won't change but how likely is it that they would?

Avtur · Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:25 am

NZ6 wrote:
AWK92 Departed AKL 1418hrs flown over GIS near NPE, over TUO and heading back in to AKL?

Any ideas?

I think it was a test flight. I did see one listed for today.

NZ6 · Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:31 am

Avtur wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
AWK92 Departed AKL 1418hrs flown over GIS near NPE, over TUO and heading back in to AKL?

Any ideas?

I think it was a test flight. I did see one listed for today.

Cheers, I suspected as much.

Kiwirob · Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:30 am

NZ6 wrote:
LamboAston wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

On one hand, I think it's fair to suspect Ardmore could end up like like Whenuapai or worse, Hobsonville. The later is now notihng but high density urban housing with the only signs of it's aviation heritage being a few street names. Whenuapai is quickly becoming landlocked as well. With 5 Squadron being forced south to Ohakea and should 40 Squadron follow when the 757's are replaced it would almost certainly spell the end for this base as well.

On the other hand, we could look at Van Nuys in Los Angeles and argue is doesn't need to close even with urban development around it. This is one of the busiest General Aviation Airports in the world and while it has some industrial buildings directly surrounding it, you can see housing is very close - https://goo.gl/maps/y45zbH3v4QHbHgZ98

Auckland does need a second airport for all it's general aviation activity not for normal airlines. AKL can't pick that up and what's the alternative?

Parakai (NZPI), Dairy Flat (NZNE), Kaipara Flats (NZKF), Mercer (NZME) - technically in the Waikato.

Ardmore was once a race track so I doubt they'll get any type of heritage protection. The items at the airport would if that's possible. But one could argue to move Warbirds away from Auckland?!?

They should be working to protect their operation long term so we don't end up with another Western Springs or Eden park where locals move in and complain of noise.

All of the first 3 airports mentioned would struggle to increase their size to cope with the larger aircraft at Ardmore due to terrain. Parakai has a steep hill at one end that either requires a steep decent or a rather late turn to final. North Shore is a banana footpath of a runway, so the slope would make it prohibitive. Challenging enough in a Cessna 172. Kaipara flats is surrounded by terrain.

As a general aviation pilot myself, you're always worried about where you're gonna go when the engine quits. It happens, and if your only option is to ditch into housing, there's almost guaranteed fatalities. It's bad enough at Woodbourne and Omaka with the vineyards.

Just for clarification - that was sort of my point. None of those are suitable. There are multiple issues with each.

Ardmore has always been an airport, it was used as a racetrack, just like Silverstone, but it was not built as a racetrack.

PA515 · Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:39 am

Air NZ A320-271N ZK-NHF (msn 10589) with test registration F-WWTM has had it's first flight.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/f-wwtm

PA515

NZ6 · Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:55 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
LamboAston wrote:
All of the first 3 airports mentioned would struggle to increase their size to cope with the larger aircraft at Ardmore due to terrain. Parakai has a steep hill at one end that either requires a steep decent or a rather late turn to final. North Shore is a banana footpath of a runway, so the slope would make it prohibitive. Challenging enough in a Cessna 172. Kaipara flats is surrounded by terrain.

As a general aviation pilot myself, you're always worried about where you're gonna go when the engine quits. It happens, and if your only option is to ditch into housing, there's almost guaranteed fatalities. It's bad enough at Woodbourne and Omaka with the vineyards.

Just for clarification - that was sort of my point. None of those are suitable. There are multiple issues with each.

Ardmore has always been an airport, it was used as a racetrack, just like Silverstone, but it was not built as a racetrack.

@#%$# !

For the last 20-30 years I've been under the impression Ardmore started as a race track and was later converted to an airport. I can't recall exactly when but I was once told that's how it started and I've never needed to look it up as I've never had the need, given general aviation isn't where my passion lies I've always just left it as my understanding. Cheers for clearing that up.

NZ516 · Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:59 am

PA515 wrote:
Air NZ A320-271N ZK-NHF (msn 10589) with test registration F-WWTM has had it's first flight.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/f-wwtm

PA515

So both NHE and NHF will almost arrive in NZ together with both now completed. A lot of the international OJ series have gone in the last two years around 5 and now just two left OJI and OJM to retire. The final ATR must not be far away either.

zkojq · Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:02 am

I wonder how long until the announcement of the end of MIQ for Auckland? I doubt it will still be in place by December. I guess there may be the need to keep something in place incase vaccine-resistant variants pop up.

Anyone know the registration of the Jab-A-Seat 787 tomorrow?

NZ6 wrote:
aerojoe wrote:
Quick question, with the recent reporting in media on teh level of government assistance to NZ for airfreight capacity is it likely we will see NZ invest in a freighter?

I wouldn't suspect so. The assistance was based on keeping critical air links open while the passenger border was closed. That'll stop next year and as passenger services resume.

Also, thinking aloud - NZ has essentially had 10-15 (end of passenger life) aircraft at their disposal which they would've/could've converted if they had wanted to go down this path.

More to the point I think it's probably a straight forward way for the government to subsidize Air New Zealand in the short term.

PA515 wrote:
Air NZ A320-271N ZK-NHF (msn 10589) with test registration F-WWTM has had it's first flight.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/f-wwtm

PA515

F-WWTM / ZK-NHF Airbus A320-271N Air New Zealand s/n 10589 - First flight * Toulouse Blagnac 2021 *

LamboAston · Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:44 am

NZ516 wrote:
PA515 wrote:
Air NZ A320-271N ZK-NHF (msn 10589) with test registration F-WWTM has had it's first flight.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/f-wwtm

PA515

So both NHE and NHF will almost arrive in NZ together with both now completed. A lot of the international OJ series have gone in the last two years around 5 and now just two left OJI and OJM to retire. The final ATR must not be far away either.

OJI is retired I believe.

NZ516 · Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:18 am

So just OJM to go now.
Certainly not need them lately due to very little 320 flying in recent times.

zkncj · Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:09 am

zkojq wrote:
I wonder how long until the announcement of the end of MIQ for Auckland? I doubt it will still be in place by December. I guess there may be the need to keep something in place incase vaccine-resistant variants pop up.

Apparently the roadmap for Auckland using the new Traffic Light framework is meant to by getting made public by the the end of next week, heres hoping International Travel will be back back for-fully VAX'd Aucklanders sooner than later.

I could see AKL-SYD resuming for two-way passenger flights by the end of the year, not sure about any other Tasman Routes.

When was the next Tasman Bubble review meant to be?

GW54 · Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:13 am

OJI last flew 6 Oct and appears to be in AKL. OJM is still current and has been flying today (15 Oct) on the CHC-WLG-CHC route.

zkncj · Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:14 am

NZ resumes AKL-SYD (Green Flights) from start of November twice week, shifting to 6x weekly from December.
At this stage are only open to Australian Citizens and Residents.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300431650/air-new-zealand-adds-quarantinefree-flights-to-sydney

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