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GalaxyFlyer
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

KGMU Falcon 50 accident follow-up

Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:13 pm

A couple of years ago, this accident was briefly here and other forums. This is a worthwhile AIN read on the port NTSB investigation and the FAA’s poor oversight record. Outside of 121, it’s mostly self-regulation which why some operators have long and distinguished records and others do not. Net Jets just announced a 1,000 prospect waiting list, so the market for professionally operated charter and management exists.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... n-50-crash
 
FlapOperator
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: KGMU Falcon 50 accident follow-up

Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:37 pm

Just amazing on every level. The fact that neither pilot was type rated somehow eluded the NTSB and FAA as a contributory cause is kind of an oddity, even by their standard.

South Florida (and increasingly Atlanta, IMO) are hot-beds of 134.5 and 91.5 type operations. Dodgy interchanges, non-public charter, etc. The FAA seems to know about the problem, but honestly is more worried about CFIs giving illegal charter in a Cessna 172 than the clapped out Falcon or Citation at the end of the field coming and going.

Honestly, I think its awesome that there are 1000s of prospects out there for a turn key, professional charter/management operations. The reality is that many of the potential customers are getting educated by the internet and salespeople, and not necessarily the pilots/managers/maintainers that will be doing the dirty work of making the jet go.
 
TUGMASTER
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:56 pm

Re: KGMU Falcon 50 accident follow-up

Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:10 pm

Wow… what a shady operation.
Sounds as dodgy as the original Air America.
 
n92r03
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Re: KGMU Falcon 50 accident follow-up

Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:35 pm

Interesting article. Amazing (not in a good way) what a tangled mess.

How does someone properly vet a charter company?
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: KGMU Falcon 50 accident follow-up

Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:05 am

Wyvern or ARG/US but not foolproof; they get caught out sometimes. Know your charter firm, basically be in the business or deal with the large known ones like Net Jets, VistaJet, Solarius. Going to the local airport and chartering is risky, IMO.
 
FlapOperator
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: KGMU Falcon 50 accident follow-up

Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:45 pm

TUGMASTER wrote:
Wow… what a shady operation.
Sounds as dodgy as the original Air America.


Do you mean the movie or the real thing?
 
FlapOperator
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: KGMU Falcon 50 accident follow-up

Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:48 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Wyvern or ARG/US but not foolproof; they get caught out sometimes. Know your charter firm, basically be in the business or deal with the large known ones like Net Jets, VistaJet, Solarius. Going to the local airport and chartering is risky, IMO.


Honestly, I think the best thing is to get away from the salesmen and speak with the pilots.

I've often wondered if there was a niche for vetting charter lift on an individual basis.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: KGMU Falcon 50 accident follow-up

Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:52 pm

I think my teacher in my aerospace class at school told us this story. According to what he said, the pilots didn't even do their checklists correctly (didn't do Controls: Free Movement). He also said he lost a good friend in this accident.

May all who died in this accident rest in peace.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Topic Author
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Re: KGMU Falcon 50 accident follow-up

Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:09 am

FlapOperator wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Wyvern or ARG/US but not foolproof; they get caught out sometimes. Know your charter firm, basically be in the business or deal with the large known ones like Net Jets, VistaJet, Solarius. Going to the local airport and chartering is risky, IMO.


Honestly, I think the best thing is to get away from the salesmen and speak with the pilots.

I've often wondered if there was a niche for vetting charter lift on an individual basis.


While I agree that those auditors aren’t perfect, it’s a start. ARG/US offers TripChk including crew details. The big name operators have a reputation and real regulatory oversight, the local FBO managing a Lear doesn’t—stick with the big name operators.
 
FlapOperator
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: KGMU Falcon 50 accident follow-up

Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:26 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

While I agree that those auditors aren’t perfect, it’s a start. ARG/US offers TripChk including crew details. The big name operators have a reputation and real regulatory oversight, the local FBO managing a Lear doesn’t—stick with the big name operators.


Wasn't the KBED Gulfstream crew recent certified by one of the large auditors, right before it was shown to be a less than professional organization? While I tend to agree they are better and more established, that's a bet on odds, rather than a gold standard of competency.

Places like ARGUS and Wyvern are literally about one step above pay for play...its like FAA oversight in that allowing any meaningful insight into ones operation is about the most you can ask for. The FAA oversight in places like south Florida is a world away from other places in the US where it is far more robust, and certificates have been threatened over small paperwork issues (disclosed, and not discovered.)

I don't know the answer, and frankly I'm glad its no longer my day to day problem. As regional pay scales creep closer and closer to middle class incomes, along with bonuses, flow-through agreements, schedules, etc. I think the peanut butter of highly qualified crews with clean training/operational records is going to be spread thinner and thinner. In my region, the retirement benefits alone of the majority of even high level 91 flight departments are remarkably subpar, and the pay and schedule not competitive with companies like Spirit, to say nothing of a Fedex or United.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: KGMU Falcon 50 accident follow-up

Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:55 am

Yes, the KBED crew were IS-BAO audited, but highly unprofessional. They weren’t charter, private department. In the large cabin planes, one can find good jobs, my pension is better than my FERS pension, for instance. Pay is accelerating—ours up 20% this coming year. It’s tough to find experienced pros, though. Our FSDO isn’t very good and not responsive to Part 91 ops. I don’t think any FSDO exercises real oversight. If it’s not an airline the entire FAA is uninterested. Like I said, NTT, Vista Jet, Solarius, Jet Aviation are high-grade operators who run professional departments.

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