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vfw614
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Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:06 am

Airbus is offering a "MaxPax" cabin layout for 188 passengers at a mixed 28/30 inch seat pitch:

https://services.airbus.com/en/in-fligh ... ution.html

Are there any regulatory / technical reasons why the can't have the whole cabin at 28 inch to cram in even more seats (another row = Y194)? I guess the defining factor are the overwing exits as these two rows are not moveable in any direction. How many 30seat pitch rows would it require to have sufficient space to squeeze in another full row of seats - the Airbus material shows 11 rows in front of the first overwing exit. I suppose that is just a little bit too less to accommodate another row, hence the "generous" 30 inch seat pitch in that section even if they are trying to max out capacity.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:51 am

Must be exit limitation I guess as 737-MAX200 requires another set of exit doors to go beyond 189 seat limitation.

Michael
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:56 am

I would hate to be the passengers in that last row, “cocoon partition” or not. Basically in galley with the nearest window two rows ahead of you.

As for why the front is 30” as you mention it is due to exit spacing between the front exit and overwings (where seats can’t obstruct doors). If they went with 28” there would be a bunch of space left over but not enough to squeeze another row in.
 
a320fan
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:01 am

Major low costs like EasyJet and Jetstar are already flying the A320 with 186. This is just two more seats basically tucked into the rear galley where there’s otherwise a small cabinet.

Image
Last edited by a320fan on Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Woodreau
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:07 am

A lot of work for 2 extra seats. Operators are already running 186 seats with the current 320 configuration.
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:02 pm

a320fan wrote:
Major low costs like EasyJet and Jetstar are already flying the A320 with 186. This is just two more seats basically tucked into the rear galley where there’s otherwise a small cabinet.

Image

Easily the worst config out there on a narrowbody. A Y189 737 is a lot more comfortable than this.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:07 pm

jeffrey0032j wrote:
a320fan wrote:
Major low costs like EasyJet and Jetstar are already flying the A320 with 186. This is just two more seats basically tucked into the rear galley where there’s otherwise a small cabinet.

Image

Easily the worst config out there on a narrowbody. A Y189 737 is a lot more comfortable than this.


better, yes. A lot better? Depends. If you have long legs, yes, if you don´t, no.

best regards
Thomas
 
astuteman
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:17 pm

vfw614 wrote:
Airbus is offering a "MaxPax" cabin layout for 188 passengers at a mixed 28/30 inch seat pitch:

https://services.airbus.com/en/in-fligh ... ution.html

Are there any regulatory / technical reasons why the can't have the whole cabin at 28 inch to cram in even more seats (another row = Y194)? I guess the defining factor are the overwing exits as these two rows are not moveable in any direction. How many 30seat pitch rows would it require to have sufficient space to squeeze in another full row of seats - the Airbus material shows 11 rows in front of the first overwing exit. I suppose that is just a little bit too less to accommodate another row, hence the "generous" 30 inch seat pitch in that section even if they are trying to max out capacity.


I understood that Cebu Pacific A320NEO's were 194 seats ....

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1425383

Rgds
 
MO11
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:27 pm

"Max Pax" isn't new, and can be one of several mods. It allows the A320 to go to 195 seats and the A321 to go to 244 seats.
 
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keesje
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:42 pm

For me it is physically impossible to fit a 28 inch seat pitch. I more than once relocated myself after showing the FA. Problem is you can't blame an FA.. It's corporate guys in HQ..

Image
https://services.airbus.com/en/in-flight-experience/cabin-upgrades/optimisation/max-pax-188-solution.html#smallmediagallery-par-smallmediagallery-3

A similar piece of "Art", cramming 200 in a 737-8200, also removing galley & placing lavatories against the rear bulkhead.

Image"
https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/new-name-for-ryanair-737-max-is-not-actually-new/133547.article

I would rather see OE add a few meter fuselage, decent pitch, lavatoires and galley than this "tokyo tube stuffing" and try brainwash everybody into believing it's their own fault & this is what the passengers, market asks for / needs. Maybe press should ask IATA to take a stand.
Image
https://static.messynessychic.com/wp-co ... finger.jpg
source: https://www.messynessychic.com/2012/11/ ... way-train/
Last edited by keesje on Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:10 pm, edited 6 times in total.
 
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vfw614
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:52 pm

MO11 wrote:
"Max Pax" isn't new, and can be one of several mods. It allows the A320 to go to 195 seats and the A321 to go to 244 seats.


I did not insinuate that it was new. I am interested why Airbus is offering it as a 188seat solution instead of 194/5 eats (194 seats would probably require another row in front of the overwing exits, 195 seats a third seat in the last row). In the link to the Airbus website I provided 195 seats in "MaxPax" are not mentioned - do you have an official Airbus source for that?
 
Max01
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:11 pm

jeffrey0032j wrote:
a320fan wrote:
Major low costs like EasyJet and Jetstar are already flying the A320 with 186. This is just two more seats basically tucked into the rear galley where there’s otherwise a small cabinet.

Image

Easily the worst config out there on a narrowbody. A Y189 737 is a lot more comfortable than this.


No, Ryanair´s -8200 is easily the worst config out there on a narrowbody.
 
texl1649
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:16 pm

I am a bit surprised Airbus would use a term such as 'max' on such an option, as the phrase is a bit...tarnished for narrow body airliners, I'd think. But maybe that's their subtle point! :white:
 
oldJoe
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:27 pm

vfw614 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
"Max Pax" isn't new, and can be one of several mods. It allows the A320 to go to 195 seats and the A321 to go to 244 seats.


I did not insinuate that it was new. I am interested why Airbus is offering it as a 188seat solution instead of 194/5 eats (194 seats would probably require another row in front of the overwing exits, 195 seats a third seat in the last row). In the link to the Airbus website I provided 195 seats in "MaxPax" are not mentioned - do you have an official Airbus source for that?


Your estimated max seating of 194 you can find at airbus.com
https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/passenger-aircraft/a320-family/a320neo.html
 
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vfw614
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:45 pm

It says

194*

*Subject to successful certification


Is there a visualization available how it will be achieved? Anything aft of the overwing exists is already maxed out with 188 seats, so it has to be achieved somehow in the relatively small space in front of the exits? Or has the NEO cabin additional space by slightly repositioned doors / bulkheads?
 
konrad
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:56 pm

In a few years from now nobody will believe that A320 was made for 150 pax and A321 for 186.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:57 pm

Seat pitch is not entirely about legroom. Going from 29 pitch to 28 may be achieved by reducing the depth of the seatback instead of reducing legroom. But 28 sounds pinched, however achieved!
 
MO11
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:50 pm

vfw614 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
"Max Pax" isn't new, and can be one of several mods. It allows the A320 to go to 195 seats and the A321 to go to 244 seats.


I did not insinuate that it was new. I am interested why Airbus is offering it as a 188seat solution instead of 194/5 eats (194 seats would probably require another row in front of the overwing exits, 195 seats a third seat in the last row). In the link to the Airbus website I provided 195 seats in "MaxPax" are not mentioned - do you have an official Airbus source for that?


The EASA type data sheet pdf:

https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/TCDS_EASA%20A%20064_%20Airbus_%20A318_A319_A320_A321_Iss_48_0.pdf

It offers the maximum passenger number for several exit configurations.
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:54 pm

MO11 wrote:
vfw614 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
"Max Pax" isn't new, and can be one of several mods. It allows the A320 to go to 195 seats and the A321 to go to 244 seats.


I did not insinuate that it was new. I am interested why Airbus is offering it as a 188seat solution instead of 194/5 eats (194 seats would probably require another row in front of the overwing exits, 195 seats a third seat in the last row). In the link to the Airbus website I provided 195 seats in "MaxPax" are not mentioned - do you have an official Airbus source for that?


The EASA type data sheet pdf:

https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/TCDS_EASA%20A%20064_%20Airbus_%20A318_A319_A320_A321_Iss_48_0.pdf

It offers the maximum passenger number for several exit configurations.

That is based on exit configuration. There still needs to be a certified 194 seat cabin available. I’m not sure if there is one currently, although all signs point to Airbus working on it.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:13 pm

vfw614 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
"Max Pax" isn't new, and can be one of several mods. It allows the A320 to go to 195 seats and the A321 to go to 244 seats.


I did not insinuate that it was new. I am interested why Airbus is offering it as a 188seat solution instead of 194/5 eats (194 seats would probably require another row in front of the overwing exits, 195 seats a third seat in the last row). In the link to the Airbus website I provided 195 seats in "MaxPax" are not mentioned - do you have an official Airbus source for that?



Under EASA it can go to 195. Under FAA it can only go to 189 without adding a door.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:22 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
Seat pitch is not entirely about legroom. Going from 29 pitch to 28 may be achieved by reducing the depth of the seatback instead of reducing legroom. But 28 sounds pinched, however achieved!



Thats also the issue most airlines are using thinner seats and claiming the same pitch. Old rules stated distance from back of your seat to the back of the seat ahead of you when both were seats were in upright position. Now they have played with contours on the lower seat section to claim the greater pitch when it is no there. We pushed them closer but moved the seat pckets higher. so we still have same legromm so its "really the same as 34". It's time the controlling bodies stopped the lies. Just take the publicly availabe distance between the front door of an A320 and do the math. the numbers do not add up.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:28 pm

MO11 wrote:
vfw614 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
"Max Pax" isn't new, and can be one of several mods. It allows the A320 to go to 195 seats and the A321 to go to 244 seats.


I did not insinuate that it was new. I am interested why Airbus is offering it as a 188seat solution instead of 194/5 eats (194 seats would probably require another row in front of the overwing exits, 195 seats a third seat in the last row). In the link to the Airbus website I provided 195 seats in "MaxPax" are not mentioned - do you have an official Airbus source for that?


The EASA type data sheet pdf:

https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/TCDS_EASA%20A%20064_%20Airbus_%20A318_A319_A320_A321_Iss_48_0.pdf

It offers the maximum passenger number for several exit configurations.


Yes but it does not show a graphic to see how that number is achieved.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:31 pm

rbavfan wrote:
Thats also the issue most airlines are using thinner seats and claiming the same pitch. Old rules stated distance from back of your seat to the back of the seat ahead of you when both were seats were in upright position. Now they have played with contours on the lower seat section to claim the greater pitch when it is no there. We pushed them closer but moved the seat pckets higher. so we still have same legromm so its "really the same as 34". It's time the controlling bodies stopped the lies. Just take the publicly availabe distance between the front door of an A320 and do the math. the numbers do not add up.


Pitch isn't another term for legroom.

Old rules stated distance from back of your seat to the back of the seat ahead of you when both were seats were in upright position.

That was, and remains, the definition of pitch.

Yes, one can thin the seatback to retain legroom while reducing pitch, but we already see slimline seats where the backrest is nothing but fabric over a shell. They're not gonna get another inch (or centimeter) out of thinning.
 
Vicenza
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:40 pm

keesje wrote:

I would rather see OE add a few meter fuselage, decent pitch, lavatoires and galley than this "tokyo tube stuffing" and try brainwash everybody into believing it's their own fault & this is what the passengers, market asks for / needs. Maybe press should ask IATA to take a stand. /


But yet repeated a.net mantra insists this type of thing is what passengers want. Can't have it both ways
 
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seahawk
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:24 pm

Nice solution. I am still thinking we should be ready for half standing seats at 25".
 
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keesje
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:04 pm

seahawk wrote:
Nice solution. I am still thinking we should be ready for half standing seats at 25".


"Standing seats" were in the news / discussed 10-12 yrs ago. I tried them, Italians Avio had them at the shows. A bit claustrophobic.. I made a concept with 7 abreast "standing"seats, ECR-20 short haul prop 200 seater. I guess with 2020 as target. It has seats more like a motor cycle saddles. My assumption is the space gained by this kind of seats, a few inches doesn't justify the complications, e.g. making them 16G compliant in existing cabin designs, evacuation requirements etc...

Image
keesje

I got a of comments on the 4 rows for elderly and disabled people in the back.. :mrgreen: Maybe with the CFM RISE such designs will be considered again. Henry Lam made an ECR-20 artist impression at the time: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rtm67/34915184323/

Image
keesje
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:54 pm

Just say, “NO”.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:49 am

vfw614 wrote:
Airbus is offering a "MaxPax" cabin layout for 188 passengers at a mixed 28/30 inch seat pitch:

https://services.airbus.com/en/in-fligh ... ution.html

Are there any regulatory / technical reasons why the can't have the whole cabin at 28 inch to cram in even more seats (another row = Y194)? I guess the defining factor are the overwing exits as these two rows are not moveable in any direction. How many 30seat pitch rows would it require to have sufficient space to squeeze in another full row of seats - the Airbus material shows 11 rows in front of the first overwing exit. I suppose that is just a little bit too less to accommodate another row, hence the "generous" 30 inch seat pitch in that section even if they are trying to max out capacity.


The Airbus website has a link to a further modification where you can cram an extra 4 seats up front if you entirely remove the bulkhead and the galley, although this would come up to 192, so not sure where the other figure (194 pax) comes from...
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:09 am

Max01 wrote:
jeffrey0032j wrote:
a320fan wrote:
Major low costs like EasyJet and Jetstar are already flying the A320 with 186. This is just two more seats basically tucked into the rear galley where there’s otherwise a small cabinet.

Image

Easily the worst config out there on a narrowbody. A Y189 737 is a lot more comfortable than this.


No, Ryanair´s -8200 is easily the worst config out there on a narrowbody.


Sorry, not to nitpick (or otherwise defend FR), but above claim(s) are not entirely correct. It's not Easyjet or Ryanair who 'own' the design of such configurations. These are manufacturer's own designs, legally approved, and normally available options for all customers.
Yes, these may be provided because "there is a market" for that, but are not 'airlines' configurations.

On a side-line the worst narrow body high density configuration had to be the one designed back in the early '80s for the short fuselage -100 BAe 146. They managed to squeeze in up to 98 seats in a cabin that would normally seat 78. There were two pax seats 'tucked' inside a niche in the back bulkhead, aft of the rear pax door, and right next to the lavatory door! I'm unsure if this was ever used by carriers, but was an available option, and was certified by regulators.
 
LAXLHR
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:44 am

It's disgraceful the way they treat humans. Say no.
 
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AECM
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:51 am

a320fan wrote:
Major low costs like EasyJet and Jetstar are already flying the A320 with 186. This is just two more seats basically tucked into the rear galley where there’s otherwise a small cabinet.


Easyjet A320NEO with 186 seats have 31 rows each with 6 seats

http://www.easyjet.com/en/help/booking-and-check-in/choosing-a-seat
 
AB330
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:47 am

astuteman wrote:
vfw614 wrote:
Airbus is offering a "MaxPax" cabin layout for 188 passengers at a mixed 28/30 inch seat pitch:

https://services.airbus.com/en/in-fligh ... ution.html

Are there any regulatory / technical reasons why the can't have the whole cabin at 28 inch to cram in even more seats (another row = Y194)? I guess the defining factor are the overwing exits as these two rows are not moveable in any direction. How many 30seat pitch rows would it require to have sufficient space to squeeze in another full row of seats - the Airbus material shows 11 rows in front of the first overwing exit. I suppose that is just a little bit too less to accommodate another row, hence the "generous" 30 inch seat pitch in that section even if they are trying to max out capacity.


I understood that Cebu Pacific A320NEO's were 194 seats ....

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1425383

Rgds


Currently Cebu Pacific first 5 A320neo delivered in 2019-2020 are configured with Y188 the plan is for the follow-up 5 A20N to be configured with Y194 not sure if they will follow through with there plans.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:11 pm

LAXLHR wrote:
It's disgraceful the way they treat humans. Say no.

Yeah, but it is only because it is humans. Had it been pigs being transported to the slaughterhouse, then they would have gone to prison for animal abuse.
 
trent768
Posts: 243
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:32 pm

Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:38 am

Polot wrote:
I would hate to be the passengers in that last row, “cocoon partition” or not. Basically in galley with the nearest window two rows ahead of you.

As for why the front is 30” as you mention it is due to exit spacing between the front exit and overwings (where seats can’t obstruct doors). If they went with 28” there would be a bunch of space left over but not enough to squeeze another row in.

Evil way to squeeze a bit more money from the passenger:
1. Reduce the front section into 28'
2. Add several more inches to the front most row
3. Brand it as "premium class"
4.??
5. Profit
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 889
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:07 am

trent768 wrote:
Polot wrote:
I would hate to be the passengers in that last row, “cocoon partition” or not. Basically in galley with the nearest window two rows ahead of you.

As for why the front is 30” as you mention it is due to exit spacing between the front exit and overwings (where seats can’t obstruct doors). If they went with 28” there would be a bunch of space left over but not enough to squeeze another row in.

Evil way to squeeze a bit more money from the passenger:
1. Reduce the front section into 28'
2. Add several more inches to the front most row
3. Brand it as "premium class"
4.??
5. Profit

4. Sell premium package: USD59 for unlimited change, 2" more legroom than others, complimentary PCR test kit, +5kg extra baggage allowance, faster boarding, faster disembarking, priority queue in call centre and check-in desk*. *Only applicable where such service still exist. LOL.....
 
miegapele
Posts: 150
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Re: Airbus A320 "MaxPax" Cabin (Y188)?

Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:23 am

Very welcome addition from Airbus. Let's hope standing seats are not far behind. Anybody complaining can fly Netjets, they just got 100 new planes. Meanwhile poor people like me also need to fly.

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