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PhilipBass
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Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:47 pm

https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous ... ilometers/

For Brussels to Franfurt the alternatives aren't appetizing.
55 minute flight becomes a car trip of about 4 hours or train trip of about 9 hours.
La Manche makes getting to London even more difficult.

It seems like a cash grab as the amounts the tax will generate will go nowhere toward improving the rail service to the level needed.

It is also a fairly blunt instrument with no differnentiation between the co2 footprint of an ATR72 or a Boeing 747
 
kalvado
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:50 pm

PhilipBass wrote:
https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/belgium-to-introduce-an-aviation-tax-on-flights-under-500-kilometers/

For Brussels to Franfurt the alternatives aren't appetizing.
55 minute flight becomes a car trip of about 4 hours or train trip of about 9 hours.
La Manche makes getting to London even more difficult.

It seems like a cash grab as the amounts the tax will generate will go nowhere toward improving the rail service to the level needed.

It is also a fairly blunt instrument with no differnentiation between the co2 footprint of an ATR72 or a Boeing 747


Hmmm, with amount like that, I would rather walk!
will have to pay a surcharge between €4 and €6

Or just don't buy that overpriced coffee at the airport.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:51 pm

Your cynicism is matched only by the Government of Belguim's. This is not a well meaning environmental policy.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:52 pm

PhilipBass wrote:
For Brussels to Franfurt the alternatives aren't appetizing.
55 minute flight becomes a car trip of about 4 hours or train trip of about 9 hours.


I don't know your source but I see all number of trips Brussels-Frankfurt tomorrow at five hours, not nine. Brussels-London at 2:10 or less.

https://www.raileurope.com/en-us
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:53 pm

Googlemaps with train selected was my source.
 
kalvado
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:54 pm

PhilipBass wrote:
Your cynicism is matched only by the Government of Belguim's. This is not a well meaning environmental policy.

It is a very sound policy for the country with 98.6% debt to GDP ratio. You may hope some of that will go towards environment as well.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:14 pm

kalvado wrote:
You may hope some of that will go towards environment as well.


The first intent is to make fewer people fly such short distances, lower demand is to make the number of flights drop. And that on it's turn benefits the environment.

However I fear people will shift to further destinations instead, instead of Frankfurt they'll fly to Munich for example. Since Munich is further than 500 kilometers from Brussels those flights remain untaxed, and from Munich they can fly on to their final destination which might be closer than 500 kilometers from Brussels. Sure it doesn't benefit the environment for someone to fly BRU-MUC-FRA instead of BRU-FRA.

Taxing short flights only works if good alternatives are available, which mostly are high speed rail alternatives. For some destinations from Brussels, like Amsterdam, Paris and even London, those high speed rail alternatives do exist. But there's very little from Brussels to Germany, you have to take regular (slow) trains for that. As such, taxes won't do anything for the environment because there's simply no alternative to flying.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:23 pm

Are you suggesting that it is indirect State support for long distance Belgian carriers at the expense of carriers operating out of Western Germany, Netherlands, UK, France?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:27 pm

Does anyone have a link which explains (in French or Flemish if necessary) exactly how this scheme will work ?
I'd like to understand how this works with connecting flights, or with destinations like Hamburg or Zurich where the train will take a very long time

That said, for non-connecting traffic between Belgium and any of Amsterdam, London and Paris, it is more difficult to argue against
 
MathijsH
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:32 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
PhilipBass wrote:
For Brussels to Franfurt the alternatives aren't appetizing.
55 minute flight becomes a car trip of about 4 hours or train trip of about 9 hours.


I don't know your source but I see all number of trips Brussels-Frankfurt tomorrow at five hours, not nine. Brussels-London at 2:10 or less.

https://www.raileurope.com/en-us


In the Belgian railway app, the ride between Brussels-North and Frankfurt with ICE is 3h7min. There are 7 connections/day.
 
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vfw614
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:46 pm

Frankfurt - Bruxelles by train takes 3h6m in comfortable high-speed trains with departures every other hour. If someone uses a plane between those cities he or she has really lost the plot.
 
Vicenza
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:50 pm

PhilipBass wrote:
Googlemaps with train selected was my source.


Not a very good source at all, unless you were quoting it for effect. Why not just simply consult train timetables for such information?
 
tomcat
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:51 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
PhilipBass wrote:
For Brussels to Franfurt the alternatives aren't appetizing.
55 minute flight becomes a car trip of about 4 hours or train trip of about 9 hours.


I don't know your source but I see all number of trips Brussels-Frankfurt tomorrow at five hours, not nine. Brussels-London at 2:10 or less.

https://www.raileurope.com/en-us


I really don't know why the actual direct trains don't show up in your searches but there are 7 direct daily ICE trains from Brussels downtown to FRA with a journey time of about 2:50. This being said, it's not a 5 euros tax that will change my preference for flying between BRU and FRA when connecting in FRA (just thinking how cold it is in Brussels South Station in the current weather not to speak about the depressing idea of spending time in that train station). As a coincidence, I'm going to fly BRU-FRA no later than tomorrow.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:52 pm

@vfw614: if you go in to http://www.bahn.de you will see that is not 100% true. The options now this moment are 10 or 11 hours while there is a flight to Brussels from Frankfurt at 21.35.
 
kalvado
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:03 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
You may hope some of that will go towards environment as well.


The first intent is to make fewer people fly such short distances, lower demand is to make the number of flights drop. And that on it's turn benefits the environment.

However I fear people will shift to further destinations instead, instead of Frankfurt they'll fly to Munich for example. Since Munich is further than 500 kilometers from Brussels those flights remain untaxed, and from Munich they can fly on to their final destination which might be closer than 500 kilometers from Brussels. Sure it doesn't benefit the environment for someone to fly BRU-MUC-FRA instead of BRU-FRA.

Taxing short flights only works if good alternatives are available, which mostly are high speed rail alternatives. For some destinations from Brussels, like Amsterdam, Paris and even London, those high speed rail alternatives do exist. But there's very little from Brussels to Germany, you have to take regular (slow) trains for that. As such, taxes won't do anything for the environment because there's simply no alternative to flying.


With amount of tax being what it is, it will deter people from jumping on FR just because it is cool to go. No real loss here from my perspective.
Anyone with legitimate reason will barely notice an extra charge.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:08 pm

I don't see any Ryanair route from Zavantem or Charleroi that will be affected by this change.
 
ScottB
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:20 pm

Let's just call this what it is: a cash grab masquerading as environmental policy. A tax of 4-6 euros per ticket really isn't enough to significantly impact demand if the rail journey still takes several hours more. If the tax is imposed on all segments to/from BRU of under 500 km vs. journeys of under 500 km, then it's an indirect subsidy for SN, as it would raise the prices of connecting itineraries via AMS, FRA, or LHR.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:27 pm

Nice, hopefully it will make people fly less.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:35 pm

trains aren't carbon neutral and the obvious alternative is a petrol or diesel car. You are in favour of incentivisation of the use of cars?
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:49 pm

PhilipBass wrote:
trains aren't carbon neutral and the obvious alternative is a petrol or diesel car. You are in favour of incentivisation of the use of cars?


There is a varying amount of emissions with the usual line that a plane creates more than a car and a car more than train. That is obviously changing in some cases. There are also electric cars which are increasingly common in Europe.

This isn’t a new move. France already announced bans on short flights and it’s being talked about elsewhere.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:52 pm

quantify the difference between a train and an ATR72 remembering to count the cost of all the metal and concrete which goes in to the upkeep of the medium through which a train travels.

France already announced tax wheezes designed to minimise impact on their national carrier.
 
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vfw614
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:59 pm

I am not really sure what your sources are, but the train schedule is plain obvious for anyone too see. Departures from Bruxelles Midi to Frankfurt Central Station at 06:24, 08:23, 10:25, 12:25, 14:25, 16:22, 18:25 with a travel time between 3h6m and 3h9m. There are more journeys available with a short connection at Cologne. There is n way to beat this by plane unless you live at the airport and do your business at the airport..
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:02 pm

I was talking about tonight and in the other direction. bahn.de does all the calculation of where you need to change.
 
marcelh
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:48 pm

PhilipBass wrote:
trains aren't carbon neutral….


https://gruen.deutschebahn.com/en/measures/ice
Since the beginning of 2018, all our customers travel on our ICE, IC and EC trains within germany by 100% renewable power.
 
ScottB
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:01 pm

marcelh wrote:
Since the beginning of 2018, all our customers travel on our ICE, IC and EC trains within germany by 100% renewable power.


Statements like this always feel like a bit of greenwashing; in reality, the electricity they use is basically as renewable as the overall grid in the regions where the electricity is consumed. Or probably more accurately, it is as renewable as the incremental generation required to power the trains vs. what would be generated absent that demand. It's not as if DB or the power generators actually direct electron flows from renewable sources to the trains.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:11 pm

marcelh wrote:
PhilipBass wrote:
trains aren't carbon neutral….


https://gruen.deutschebahn.com/en/measures/ice
Since the beginning of 2018, all our customers travel on our ICE, IC and EC trains within germany by 100% renewable power.

You, Me and Gazprom know this isn't true and until Germany reaches 100% electricity ever kW will be at the expense of another consumer who otherwise would have consumed electricity from renewable sources.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:12 pm

vfw614 wrote:
Frankfurt - Bruxelles by train takes 3h6m in comfortable high-speed trains with departures every other hour. If someone uses a plane between those cities he or she has really lost the plot.

The view from the air is usually better than the view from the tracks. Plus you depart and arrive at an airport where you can do some planespotting. For those and others reasons I prefer to use an aircraft over a train. Flying from Amsterdam to Frankfurt of Paris is usually just a little more expensive than taking the train. Only a few euros more won't make the difference for me.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:15 pm

Those on that flight at 9.35 tonight would be turning the key in their front door by now in Brussels after a productive day in Frankfurt. Where would they be now if on an ICE? passing the border? How productive will they be rolling in to work tomorrow morning.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:19 pm

A tax of around 5 euros is unlikely to make much of a difference to most people. Furthermore, by making the tax amount small, there are unlikely to be major protests

However... tax levels can increase. Suppose next year, the tax becomes 10 euros.... and the year after that it becomes 20 euros. Still not a huge amount, but 20 euros is starting to become noticeable to people travelling for leisure, passengers may move significantly more towards the train, and daily flight frequency may start to decrease, initiating a bit of a vicious circle for ultra-short flights to/from Belgium

Regarding travel from Frankfurt to Brussels. Very few companies would expect a person to remain in the office until 8 pm, if they then had to fly home the same evening. I suspect that anyone who spent the day in an office in Frankfurt would expect to be leaving by 6 pm and heading home. That would imply catching the 18:29 train from Frankfurt and reaching Brussels Midi station by 21:35
The people on the 21:35 flight from Frankfurt to Brussels are likely those who arrived in Frankfurt a few hours earlier on a separate Star Alliance connecting flight. I have yet to see anything which says clearly whether the 500km limit applies only to point-to-point travel, or includes connecting flights on a more lengthy itinerary
Last edited by davidjohnson6 on Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
marcelh
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:22 pm

ScottB wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Since the beginning of 2018, all our customers travel on our ICE, IC and EC trains within germany by 100% renewable power.


Statements like this always feel like a bit of greenwashing; in reality, the electricity they use is basically as renewable as the overall grid in the regions where the electricity is consumed. Or probably more accurately, it is as renewable as the incremental generation required to power the trains vs. what would be generated absent that demand. It's not as if DB or the power generators actually direct electron flows from renewable sources to the trains.


So? The amount of electricity used (“consumed”) by DB is from renewable sources.
 
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vfw614
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:22 pm

And all travellers not departing in the late evening will save a lot of time by taking the train, not the plane. Not really sure why you are trying to build your argument on the very narrow time-window that is the only one that supports your view.

MartijnNL wrote:
vfw614 wrote:
Frankfurt - Bruxelles by train takes 3h6m in comfortable high-speed trains with departures every other hour. If someone uses a plane between those cities he or she has really lost the plot.

The view from the air is usually better than the view from the tracks. Plus you depart and arrive at an airport where you can do some planespotting. For those and others reasons I prefer to use an aircraft over a train. Flying from Amsterdam to Frankfurt of Paris is usually just a little more expensive than taking the train. Only a few euros more won't make the difference for me.


Well, avgeeks probably are less than one per cent of those travelling by plane, so I am not really for you are representative...
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:25 pm

I direct you to post 28 above to account for the other 99%
 
marcelh
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:33 pm

PhilipBass wrote:
marcelh wrote:
PhilipBass wrote:
trains aren't carbon neutral….


https://gruen.deutschebahn.com/en/measures/ice
Since the beginning of 2018, all our customers travel on our ICE, IC and EC trains within germany by 100% renewable power.

You, Me and Gazprom know this isn't true and until Germany reaches 100% electricity ever kW will be at the expense of another consumer who otherwise would have consumed electricity from renewable sources.

I suggest you will reread your comments before hitting the “submit” button. Facts doesn’t disappear because they don’t fit your personal opinions….
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:35 pm

Are you even remotely familiar with the issues Germany has in sourcing renewable electricity. Those night trains aren't running on solar. The trains in the south aren't running on windpower. They can't even build high tension lines within their borders much less getting enough capacity from interconnectors abroad.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:48 pm

In the grand scheme of things the introduction of this tax is completely pointless. Flights shorter than 500 km generate very little CO2, just four percent of the total. The vast majority of CO2-emissions comes from longhaul flights. This taxation might even result in less shorter flights and more longer flights. KLM has already stated they would like to 'trade in' one Amsterdam - Brussels rotation to for example an Amsterdam - Dallas one.

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... 2-uitstoot

https://www.eurocontrol.int/publication ... t-distance
 
DLPMMM
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:02 pm

This tax will do nothing except raise 30M euros for the Belgian government…that is what it was designed to do, and that is what it will do.

The amount of the tax is too small to be a deterrent to force passengers into a different mode of transport.

It also helps SN a little to protect it’s long haul network against hubs closer than 500 km from undercutting fares
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:10 pm

kalvado wrote:
PhilipBass wrote:
Your cynicism is matched only by the Government of Belguim's. This is not a well meaning environmental policy.

It is a very sound policy for the country with 98.6% debt to GDP ratio. You may hope some of that will go towards environment as well.

lol! Get back to me when they start taxing private jet flights...
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:13 pm

PhilipBass wrote:
trains aren't carbon neutral and the obvious alternative is a petrol or diesel car. You are in favour of incentivisation of the use of cars?


Trains aren't carbon neutral but energy consumed per available seat kilometer is much, much less - like 80% less.

Germany gets a lot of electricity from carbon-neutral sources. That makes trains - whether or not you accept DB's claims of green energy - superior to a single-passenger car (petrol or diesel). Trains are more efficient than BEVs, too.

Electric trains are the easiest way to decarbonize transportation - by far. The technologies are available and scalable today.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:45 pm

You are misquoting me. I suggest this money grab will divert those travelling from plane back in to their cars, not on to a train.

Since the removal of nuclear from the fuel mix Germany's grid is less carbon neutral than it would otherwise be.

I suppose if you can magically teleport a family of four on to the platform of a train station and from a platform of a train station to their final destination that trains have a lower carbon footprint than all other forms of transport. Their advocates don't want to count that "cost" in to their calculation though as it nullifies the advantage.
 
kalvado
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:50 pm

PhilipBass wrote:
You are misquoting me. I suggest this money grab will divert those travelling from plane back in to their cars, not on to a train.

Since the removal of nuclear from the fuel mix Germany's grid is less carbon neutral than it would otherwise be.

I suppose if you can magically teleport a family of four on to the platform of a train station and from a platform of a train station to their final destination that trains have a lower carbon footprint than all other forms of transport. Their advocates don't want to count that "cost" in to their calculation though as it nullifies the advantage.

Can you teleport family of 4 to the airport?
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:54 pm

If you are not counting the CO2 to make an artificial best case scenario for the train then why count it for the airport and it is easier to get parking at my nearest airport than near the train station.
 
FluidFlow
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:59 am

To be fair for a 500km Journey you need between 20-40l of fuel or diesel depending on load of the car and model. This is around 30-60€. You pay a lot more CO2 tax (the tax rate on fuel is 47c per liter diesel and 65 cent per liter petrol in Germany, 60 cent on both in Belgium) on the car trip than on the flight. So if you want to avoid the CO2 tax you better pay the 6€ extra for the flight.
 
hoons90
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:01 am

PhilipBass wrote:
Those on that flight at 9.35 tonight would be turning the key in their front door by now in Brussels after a productive day in Frankfurt. Where would they be now if on an ICE? passing the border? How productive will they be rolling in to work tomorrow morning.


You could take ICE #10 that departs Frankfurt at 18:29 and arrives Brussels at 21:26.
The comparable SN flight departs at 21:35 and arrives Brussels at 22:40, which probably means one would probably get home closer to midnight. I'm not sure about others, but if I get home at midnight, there's no way I'm going to get enough sleep to wake up in the morning feeling refreshed and ready to roll into work on time. Flight gets delayed past the curfew at FRA? Guess who's spending the night in Frankfurt!

Also, I'd rather be on my way a bit earlier than wait around in Frankfurt after my work day is done (which would probably end before dinnertime anyways). Frankfurt Airport, while rather close to the city, is terrible. Frankfurt (the city) is nothing to write home about either.


PhilipBass wrote:
If you are not counting the CO2 to make an artificial best case scenario for the train then why count it for the airport and it is easier to get parking at my nearest airport than near the train station.


In many cases, the first and last mile connections of a journey will be shorter for a rail trip versus a plane trip due to the closer proximity of train stations to city centres in comparison to airports (although there are some exceptions).
 
oldJoe
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:41 am

PhilipBass wrote:
I direct you to post 28 above to account for the other 99%


I have to wonder what this 99% do on a Wedesday because SN2618 does not operate at this day !? The latest flight you can take is LH1016 at 16:30.
I also don`t understand why you list only the driving ( train ) or flight times ? Take the total time when you leave the door until you are at the place you need to be.
Say someone lives in western part of Brussels and need to go to Frankfurt City. He must already pass the station to come to the airport where he must show up one hour before takeoff. Arriving in Frankurt he need some other transport to come to the Citty and on the return the same. This will not beat the train.
I have a friend wich lives in Luxemburg and travels alot to Paris. Similar scenario and guess what he take the TGV because it saves him 2,5 hours per trip
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:46 am

A bit more analysis of the tax - could be more than 6 euros
https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous ... er-flight/
 
seb76
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:49 am

The government calculated that this will allow them to raise 30M€ per year of tax based on current (actually pre-covid) volumes... which means they don't even expect the tax to have any impact on the traffic ;-)

I often used the LH's BRU-FRA, BRU-MUC, BRU-ZRH, I can tell you that most of this little Airbus is used for connecting flights either to/from Asia on Star Alliance partners (Lufthansa, Singapore Airlines, ANA, ...) or to bring persons connecting from another Star Alliance long haul fight to one of SN 's Africa flights. You can also immediately notice that the business class section of that plane often extends past the middle of the plane. On a typical SN flight to the sun, there is hardly 3-5 business class rows
In the overal cost of a longhaul flight, the 4 or 6 € will make little to no difference and those passengers will have ZERO motivation to consider train, car or whatsoever since they have no need to enter the center in FRA. Even Belgian business travelers using those flights typically come from companies located in the suburbs of Brussels. They prefer to drive to the airport than to reach the midi train station if at some point in their travel they'll have to be on a plane.
Only if you intend to attend a fair or meeting in Frankfurt, it will make sense to start the journey by train. The ICE is actually very comfy and fast (no security queues etc...) but not many people go to the city, they just need the hub...
 
Noshow
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:07 am

I flew from MUC to BRU the other day. Evening flight after a day of work. No high speed train would have made it in time. Shorter flights are necessary as well. And Brussels needs feeders to feed it's long haul network.
 
Eiszeit
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:21 am

MartijnNL wrote:
In the grand scheme of things the introduction of this tax is completely pointless. Flights shorter than 500 km generate very little CO2, just four percent of the total. The vast majority of CO2-emissions comes from longhaul flights. This taxation might even result in less shorter flights and more longer flights. KLM has already stated they would like to 'trade in' one Amsterdam - Brussels rotation to for example an Amsterdam - Dallas one.

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... 2-uitstoot

https://www.eurocontrol.int/publication ... t-distance


Flights below 500km create an disproportionate amount of exhausts because there is a reduced flighttime at an optimal level, so even if the majority comes from longhaul flights per KM the dirt from SH is way higher.
 
Noshow
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:31 am

Short hauls might even climb faster as there is less fuel weight on board?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Belgium introduce environmental taxes on short trips

Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:38 pm

London to Brussels is advertised at 1 hr, 53 minutes.
https://www.eurostar.com/uk-en/train/be ... o-brussels

What is the security requirements? Considering one must get to/from the airport and deal with TSA and wait for checked luggage... This could force enough people to look

I know my employer travel system now has trains and buses in the airfare selection area due to environmental mandates. Now only approved if rental car is available at the destination (otherwise, it won't show up unless you go out of your way).

So this will push travel portals that way. As an aviation fan, I am sad.

missed it, are electric aircraft excluded?

Lightsaber

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