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lightsaber
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Hondajet 2600 mockup

Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:56 pm

I was surprised that Honda is displaying a mockup of a trans continental range light jet, Hondajet 2600.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/new ... 1030860129

Laminar flow wings, carbon composite fuselage.

Designed for single pilot ops.

From most companies I would dismiss the idea, but not Honda. I won't bet on time to market though. ;) I wonder what engine will be selected (or another Honda custom)?


Lightsaber
 
SteelChair
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:10 am

I find it fascinating that Honda persists in its efforts to enter this space in the marketplace. There are several strong competitors with established customers.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:20 am

Thanks for posting.
So it seems only the Japanese (and the Brazilians) are serious about actually producing the next generation of very efficient aircraft. This could be a winner because getting subsidised sustainable jet fuel for a business jet is a long shot. What till Jet at the FBO is $10 per gallon. A ESG "aware" company would buy a transcontinental jet that -

"Dramatically reduces carbon emissions with up to 20% better fuel efficiency than typical light jets, and is over 40% more fuel efficient than a mid-size jet during a typical mission."

Imagine what it burns compared to a Gulfsteam and BBD hauling 2 Sr. VP's coast to coast
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:36 am

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Imagine what it burns compared to a Gulfsteam and BBD hauling 2 Sr. VP's coast to coast


Many of the individuals that buy aircraft like a super large cabin really don't care about their personal carbon footprint.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:58 am

SteelChair wrote:
I find it fascinating that Honda persists in its efforts to enter this space in the marketplace. There are several strong competitors with established customers.


With LearJet recently exiting the upper end of the light jet market, that is an additional niche that Honda can access. Honda seems to be aiming to compete with the Textron Cessna Citation CJ4-Gen 2, which is similar in size, can be operated single-pilot, but lacks trans-con range. If built as proposed, the new HondaJet will offer a roomier cabin, a higher service ceiling, a lower-pressure altitude cabin, more range and will be slightly faster that the CJ4-G2. The new HondaJet would also be the first single-pilot, light jet with true, trans-con range.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:06 am

SteelChair wrote:
I find it fascinating that Honda persists in its efforts to enter this space in the marketplace. There are several strong competitors with established customers.


When has that prevented Honda from entering a new market. I believe that those conditions define every market they have entered.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:08 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
I find it fascinating that Honda persists in its efforts to enter this space in the marketplace. There are several strong competitors with established customers.


With LearJet recently exiting the upper end of the light jet market, that is an additional niche that Honda can access. Honda seems to be aiming to compete with the Textron Cessna Citation CJ4-Gen 2, which is similar in size, can be operated single-pilot, but lacks trans-con range. If built as proposed, the new HondaJet will offer a roomier cabin, a higher service ceiling, a lower-pressure altitude cabin, more range and will be slightly faster that the CJ4-G2. The new HondaJet would also be the first single-pilot, light jet with true, trans-con range.

I believe the single pilot, combined with the range will differentiate. However, this is a very paper airplane. We can assume it has a MTOW similar to the CJ5G2 to maintain single pilot ops. But what engine? What flaps or other lift devices? What cost?

Honestly, this is the market needing shakeup with the exit of Learjet. Exciting, but unknown.

Lightsaber
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:33 am

SteelChair wrote:
I find it fascinating that Honda persists in its efforts to enter this space in the marketplace. There are several strong competitors with established customers.

It was Mr. Honda’s dream to build Airplanes, and the kids are seeing it through. Honda started working on their own designs in 1986, to counter what they thought Mitsubishi was doing.

Unlike US Companies where the CEO is an banker or financial guru, Honda tends to be run by engineers, or those with an engineering background. The new Honda CEO was the head of Global Research and Development, for instance, and has been with the company for 34 years.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:06 am

FlapOperator wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:

Imagine what it burns compared to a Gulfsteam and BBD hauling 2 Sr. VP's coast to coast


Many of the individuals that buy aircraft like a super large cabin really don't care about their personal carbon footprint.

Still, it makes for good PR, and investors are increasingly taking note of ESG criteria.

Anyway, even though it bears the 'Honda' name and is a wholly owned subsidiary of Honda Motors, most of this jet is american. Their HQ, R&D center and FAL are all in the US, in Greensboro, NC.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:59 pm

Will be interesting to see if Al Gore and Bill Gates buy them. Still saving $15,000 in fuel on a LA-NY trip, on a plane that might cost a third to buy? Maybe not Jeff Bezo's concern but an actor or sports star? NetJets is going to love it.

I think they would sell like hot cakes.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:34 pm

I know that the HA-420 is the baseline with a stretch ot the fuselage and increase of wingspan, but did they ncrease the fuselage diameter or shape at all to allow for a bit easier walking down the much longer plane?

I am fascinated by this nominally 9pax jet with a single pilot (you have to go for that odd sideways seat facing the door or maybe even he seat belted toilet to get to 10 pax). It's a very very different way to transport 9 souls than my other favorite 9pax aircraft, the TecnamP2012 Traveller. ;p
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:42 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Will be interesting to see if Al Gore and Bill Gates buy them. Still saving $15,000 in fuel on a LA-NY trip, on a plane that might cost a third to buy? Maybe not Jeff Bezo's concern but an actor or sports star? NetJets is going to love it.

I think they would sell like hot cakes.


Honda Jets haven’t been big in the fractional market, yet. Gates isn’t trading in his Gulfstreams and Melinda might get a new one in the divorce settlement. They have a matched pair now.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:20 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Man - his credibility keeps getting lower and lower. Him and AL Gore keep winning that "do as I say not as I do award".


Why would change, he has the money, many times over. For him to fly in a new G650, as a portion of his money is like you and I owning a car.
 
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william
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:23 pm

Is this a stretch or new fuselage?
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:21 pm

lightsaber wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
I find it fascinating that Honda persists in its efforts to enter this space in the marketplace. There are several strong competitors with established customers.


With LearJet recently exiting the upper end of the light jet market, that is an additional niche that Honda can access. Honda seems to be aiming to compete with the Textron Cessna Citation CJ4-Gen 2, which is similar in size, can be operated single-pilot, but lacks trans-con range. If built as proposed, the new HondaJet will offer a roomier cabin, a higher service ceiling, a lower-pressure altitude cabin, more range and will be slightly faster that the CJ4-G2. The new HondaJet would also be the first single-pilot, light jet with true, trans-con range.

I believe the single pilot, combined with the range will differentiate. However, this is a very paper airplane. We can assume it has a MTOW similar to the CJ5G2 to maintain single pilot ops. But what engine? What flaps or other lift devices? What cost?

Honestly, this is the market needing shakeup with the exit of Learjet. Exciting, but unknown.

Lightsaber


While this article from 2016 is a bit dated, it appears that the GE Honda team had plans to start the development of a 3,000/4,000 lbs. thrust-class engine back in 2016, based on the smaller HF-120 engine used in HA-420 HondaJet. This would match up with the thrust specs of the Williams FJ44-4A engine that is used on the Citation CJ4-G2.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... fan-family

As for MTOW, the CJ4 is at 17,111 lbs., so I imagine Honda hopes to come in lower than that and get better performance and range with their proposed, Honda 2600. Should be interesting...
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:50 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:

With LearJet recently exiting the upper end of the light jet market, that is an additional niche that Honda can access. Honda seems to be aiming to compete with the Textron Cessna Citation CJ4-Gen 2, which is similar in size, can be operated single-pilot, but lacks trans-con range. If built as proposed, the new HondaJet will offer a roomier cabin, a higher service ceiling, a lower-pressure altitude cabin, more range and will be slightly faster that the CJ4-G2. The new HondaJet would also be the first single-pilot, light jet with true, trans-con range.

I believe the single pilot, combined with the range will differentiate. However, this is a very paper airplane. We can assume it has a MTOW similar to the CJ5G2 to maintain single pilot ops. But what engine? What flaps or other lift devices? What cost?

Honestly, this is the market needing shakeup with the exit of Learjet. Exciting, but unknown.

Lightsaber


While this article from 2016 is a bit dated, it appears that the GE Honda team had plans to start the development of a 3,000/4,000 lbs. thrust-class engine back in 2016, based on the smaller HF-120 engine used in HA-420 HondaJet. This would match up with the thrust specs of the Williams FJ44-4A engine that is used on the Citation CJ4-G2.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... fan-family

As for MTOW, the CJ4 is at 17,111 lbs., so I imagine Honda hopes to come in lower than that and get better performance and range with their proposed, Honda 2600. Should be interesting...

That is facinating. Since the engine is the longest lead time item, having a new one in work really helps.

I think the Current Hondajet is neat, but I also think a larger model is more what the market is looking for. I suspect the size was chosen to avoid a head to head with Embraer's 300.

Lightsaber
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:53 am

Again, is it a stretch or new fuselage? The wings are definitely new.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:22 am

It’s bigger, so it’s a new fuselage
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:57 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It’s bigger, so it’s a new fuselage


Thank you.

Hmmm, single pilots and the ability to seat 9 pax. No doubt its going to be too expensive for commuter airline duties, but maybe as an execute shuttle.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:12 pm

william wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It’s bigger, so it’s a new fuselage


Thank you.

Hmmm, single pilots and the ability to seat 9 pax. No doubt its going to be too expensive for commuter airline duties, but maybe as an execute shuttle.



I don’t get the A.net fascination with single-pilot ops. Decades of experience with CRM as applied to accidents prove pilots are a single point of failure—the only solution is two with a culture of good CRM. While incapacitation is one rather remote hazard, simply mis-settings can be causal to an accident especially in a non-normal or emergency. In the big picture of jet operations, a second pilot isn’t not expensive.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:31 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
In the big picture of jet operations, a second pilot isn’t not expensive.

For a bizjet or a small RJ, what's a realistic amount? 5% of the total DOC per pilot? Less?

I think it matters more on an RJ because it directly competes with larger, more efficient commercial airliners.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:00 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I don’t get the A.net fascination with single-pilot ops. Decades of experience with CRM as applied to accidents prove pilots are a single point of failure—the only solution is two with a culture of good CRM. While incapacitation is one rather remote hazard, simply mis-settings can be causal to an accident especially in a non-normal or emergency. In the big picture of jet operations, a second pilot isn’t not expensive.


I don't think single pilot certification is pursued by economic considerations, frankly IMO it is offered for those who want to fly it owner operated. It is for the person who wants to fly their own airplane on their schedule without having to coordinate scheduling a crew in the same manor as if they were flying any other personally operated plane.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:27 pm

mxaxai wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
In the big picture of jet operations, a second pilot isn’t not expensive.

For a bizjet or a small RJ, what's a realistic amount? 5% of the total DOC per pilot? Less?

I think it matters more on an RJ because it directly competes with larger, more efficient commercial airliners.


In a small bizjet, the insurance carrier will be a factor—the second pilot cost will be offset by lower premiums. Insurance has been skyrocketing for owner-flown single-pilot operations. Salary is a fixed cost, so about $80,000 to $100,000 plus benefits at a minimum.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:28 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
william wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It’s bigger, so it’s a new fuselage


Thank you.

Hmmm, single pilots and the ability to seat 9 pax. No doubt its going to be too expensive for commuter airline duties, but maybe as an execute shuttle.



I don’t get the A.net fascination with single-pilot ops. Decades of experience with CRM as applied to accidents prove pilots are a single point of failure—the only solution is two with a culture of good CRM. While incapacitation is one rather remote hazard, simply mis-settings can be causal to an accident especially in a non-normal or emergency. In the big picture of jet operations, a second pilot isn’t not expensive.


I wouldn't want to fly trans-con with a single pilot. What happens when he/she needs a restroom break?
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:35 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
william wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It’s bigger, so it’s a new fuselage


Thank you.

Hmmm, single pilots and the ability to seat 9 pax. No doubt its going to be too expensive for commuter airline duties, but maybe as an execute shuttle.



I don’t get the A.net fascination with single-pilot ops. Decades of experience with CRM as applied to accidents prove pilots are a single point of failure—the only solution is two with a culture of good CRM. While incapacitation is one rather remote hazard, simply mis-settings can be causal to an accident especially in a non-normal or emergency. In the big picture of jet operations, a second pilot isn’t not expensive.


The whole industry is making noise about autonomous and single pilot flying. Its not an Anet thing, its an economic and labor pool thing.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:43 pm

Noise, yes, real changes, no. There’s no regulatory or Congressional direction on the idea. If anything accident experience is showing SP ops have added risk.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:17 pm

Yakflyer wrote:
I don't think single pilot certification is pursued by economic considerations, frankly IMO it is offered for those who want to fly it owner operated. It is for the person who wants to fly their own airplane on their schedule without having to coordinate scheduling a crew in the same manor as if they were flying any other personally operated plane.


Agree. A guy who wants to fly far in his own rig with 9 of his non-pilot friends/family on a whim.

It would be intersting to know how many current HA-420 aircraft are presently flown with a single pilot and their family/friends. I bet that it's most of them. HA-2600 will be a logical growout of that.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:00 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
Yakflyer wrote:
I don't think single pilot certification is pursued by economic considerations, frankly IMO it is offered for those who want to fly it owner operated. It is for the person who wants to fly their own airplane on their schedule without having to coordinate scheduling a crew in the same manor as if they were flying any other personally operated plane.


Agree. A guy who wants to fly far in his own rig with 9 of his non-pilot friends/family on a whim.

It would be intersting to know how many current HA-420 aircraft are presently flown with a single pilot and their family/friends. I bet that it's most of them. HA-2600 will be a logical growout of that.


And when said individual augers one in and kills his family (see PC-12 thread) everyone will be asking why private jets are crashing. Reminds me of old saw, “if you think the pros are expensive, hire some amateurs”. Having been in the business for decades, if I won the Powerball and could afford one of these magic carpets; I’d remain current, but hire two pros to do the flying. I might fly a leg in good weather. Or buy a something small like a Kodiak-fixed gear, unpressurized. Staying proficient in a jet is a full time job, not a hobby.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:36 pm

It seems the single pilot oos have at least sold a few original Hondajet's:
https://aviationweek.com/business-aviat ... -operation

The competition has single pilot, so not having it would be a red flag. This is something that I doubt we'll agree on here. Insurance costs will cover the risk difference.

Lightsaber
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:56 pm

lightsaber wrote:
It seems the single pilot oos have at least sold a few original Hondajet's:
https://aviationweek.com/business-aviat ... -operation

The competition has single pilot, so not having it would be a red flag. This is something that I doubt we'll agree on here. Insurance costs will cover the risk difference.

Lightsaber


I agree, lots of single-pilot operations are fine, but enough have to grief that they all have a black eye and it carries over to smear the good ones. I’ve heard stories of single-pilot and husband-wife teams that leave me very unimpressed with the operation. AOPA, Safety Standdown and other forums have helped. Read some single-pilot accident reports, ugly, as are new operations where there’s no experienced leadership.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:03 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
Yakflyer wrote:
I don't think single pilot certification is pursued by economic considerations, frankly IMO it is offered for those who want to fly it owner operated. It is for the person who wants to fly their own airplane on their schedule without having to coordinate scheduling a crew in the same manor as if they were flying any other personally operated plane.


Agree. A guy who wants to fly far in his own rig with 9 of his non-pilot friends/family on a whim.

It would be intersting to know how many current HA-420 aircraft are presently flown with a single pilot and their family/friends. I bet that it's most of them. HA-2600 will be a logical growout of that.


And when said individual augers one in and kills his family (see PC-12 thread) everyone will be asking why private jets are crashing. Reminds me of old saw, “if you think the pros are expensive, hire some amateurs”. Having been in the business for decades, if I won the Powerball and could afford one of these magic carpets; I’d remain current, but hire two pros to do the flying. I might fly a leg in good weather. Or buy a something small like a Kodiak-fixed gear, unpressurized. Staying proficient in a jet is a full time job, not a hobby.


you know. i was going to respond.. but you've stated your opinion on single pilot ops in no less than 5 of the 30 post in this thread that is about Honda displaying a mockup of a new aircraft at a trade show. i don't have the energy nor interest to defend the 2600 against all of that. there are at least 10 in production jets rated for single pilot ops rated for carrying (oh I'm sorry, I meant killing) 6 to 9 of your deal loved ones. but let's spew all of that on the Honda thread about their new aircraft.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:34 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
Yakflyer wrote:
I don't think single pilot certification is pursued by economic considerations, frankly IMO it is offered for those who want to fly it owner operated. It is for the person who wants to fly their own airplane on their schedule without having to coordinate scheduling a crew in the same manor as if they were flying any other personally operated plane.


Agree. A guy who wants to fly far in his own rig with 9 of his non-pilot friends/family on a whim.

It would be intersting to know how many current HA-420 aircraft are presently flown with a single pilot and their family/friends. I bet that it's most of them. HA-2600 will be a logical growout of that.


And when said individual augers one in and kills his family (see PC-12 thread) everyone will be asking why private jets are crashing. Reminds me of old saw, “if you think the pros are expensive, hire some amateurs”. Having been in the business for decades, if I won the Powerball and could afford one of these magic carpets; I’d remain current, but hire two pros to do the flying. I might fly a leg in good weather. Or buy a something small like a Kodiak-fixed gear, unpressurized. Staying proficient in a jet is a full time job, not a hobby.




Couldn’t agree more


What’s the point of designing and building a well engineered aircraft with good performance, reliability and redundancy in systems then provide no redundancy in its human operation ?
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:39 am

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

Agree. A guy who wants to fly far in his own rig with 9 of his non-pilot friends/family on a whim.

It would be intersting to know how many current HA-420 aircraft are presently flown with a single pilot and their family/friends. I bet that it's most of them. HA-2600 will be a logical growout of that.


And when said individual augers one in and kills his family (see PC-12 thread) everyone will be asking why private jets are crashing. Reminds me of old saw, “if you think the pros are expensive, hire some amateurs”. Having been in the business for decades, if I won the Powerball and could afford one of these magic carpets; I’d remain current, but hire two pros to do the flying. I might fly a leg in good weather. Or buy a something small like a Kodiak-fixed gear, unpressurized. Staying proficient in a jet is a full time job, not a hobby.


you know. i was going to respond.. but you've stated your opinion on single pilot ops in no less than 5 of the 30 post in this thread that is about Honda displaying a mockup of a new aircraft at a trade show. i don't have the energy nor interest to defend the 2600 against all of that. there are at least 10 in production jets rated for single pilot ops rated for carrying (oh I'm sorry, I meant killing) 6 to 9 of your deal loved ones. but let's spew all of that on the Honda thread about their new aircraft.



It's important to point out that just because Honda shows it in the mockup, doesn't make it a good idea. The manufactures are responding to demand from rich owners . Doesn't make it a good idea. Just like muscle cars of old, and aging pilots in GA, insurance companies will make it so expensive to operate they will become the defacto regulators.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:11 am

You are all are pretending only Honda is proposing singlepilot ops in 9pax aircraft? Again, there are no less than 10 being currently manufactured that permit this... it's the Single Pilot Class of Light Jets. The FAA has already put the stamp of approval on a number of aircraft to be flown this way. Why make all of this stink on the Honda thread? This is not a Honda Issue. All of the direct competitors of this plane already offer single pilot ops.

Insurance companies can charge extra for single pilot class of light jets if they like. that will keep the rest of you who are flying your own aircraft (either alone or in tandem with a qualified pilot) from subsidizing their premiums. But this seems like a topic that is beyond the scope of this thread where Honda is showing us a nice cockipit and cabin mockup of their new jet.
 
Jungleneer
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:42 am

Honda will need to price this aircraft very carefully. It falls between Phenom 300 and PC24 class to the Latitude or Praetor 500.
If they are able to offer it priced closely to the P300 prices, will be a winner.
Last edited by Jungleneer on Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:45 am

Please take the single pilot ops to a new thread as that applies to a whole category of light jets and has taken this thread off topic.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:51 am

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
You are all are pretending only Honda is proposing singlepilot ops in 9pax aircraft? Again, there are no less than 10 being currently manufactured that permit this... it's the Single Pilot Class of Light Jets. The FAA has already put the stamp of approval on a number of aircraft to be flown this way. Why make all of this stink on the Honda thread? This is not a Honda Issue. All of the direct competitors of this plane already offer single pilot ops.

Insurance companies can charge extra for single pilot class of light jets if they like. that will keep the rest of you who are flying your own aircraft (either alone or in tandem with a qualified pilot) from subsidizing their premiums. But this seems like a topic that is beyond the scope of this thread where Honda is showing us a nice cockipit and cabin mockup of their new jet.


You’re quite correct , it’s NOT a Honda issue, they just happen to be the subject in which single pilot operations are central to the discussion. BTW, I was at the Citation FSI course getting a Citation type shorty after Thurman Munson crashed his single pilot Citation. I’m opposed to the single pilot proposition, regardless of the FAA’s standing, which has “matured” over the years. They insisted two pilots in the original Citation.

If you’re spending millions on transportation for your family, bury your ego, hire professionals to do the flying.
 
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:16 am

btfarrwm wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
william wrote:

Thank you.

Hmmm, single pilots and the ability to seat 9 pax. No doubt its going to be too expensive for commuter airline duties, but maybe as an execute shuttle.



I don’t get the A.net fascination with single-pilot ops. Decades of experience with CRM as applied to accidents prove pilots are a single point of failure—the only solution is two with a culture of good CRM. While incapacitation is one rather remote hazard, simply mis-settings can be causal to an accident especially in a non-normal or emergency. In the big picture of jet operations, a second pilot isn’t not expensive.


I wouldn't want to fly trans-con with a single pilot. What happens when he/she needs a restroom break?


For 'he', just make sure you take an empty jar or bottle (with secure lid) into the cockpit with you! 'She' would need a hospital-style female urinal, I guess. Going 'commando' would make it easier for either sex. For both sexes, make sure not to eat ANYTHING 'iffy' 8-12 hours before the flight!
 
Max Q
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:35 am

The capability to operate single pilot is obviously an attractive one, especially for the owner operator but it’s asking for trouble.


You can’t just rely on the autopilot to always get you out of trouble, good hand flying skills are vital



Some situations require good judgment in the moment in a rapidly changing dynamic environment



This is nearly always better handled with two brains than one, especially when things go wrong
 
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FiscAutTecGarte
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:08 pm

I thought I'd followup on this Thread. Honda has released additional information about this concept on the Hondajet.com website. It includes specifications and a brochure. The fuselage width and height are just negligibly more than that of the HA-420. No mention of powerplant yet. Will be interestic to see if it's a derivative of the HF-120. Regardless, they must be very far along in their powerplant selection, otherwise they couldn't make claims like 20% more fuel efficient than light jets, or more than 40% more fuel efficient than midsize jets on similar missions.
 
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william
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:49 am

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
I thought I'd followup on this Thread. Honda has released additional information about this concept on the Hondajet.com website. It includes specifications and a brochure. The fuselage width and height are just negligibly more than that of the HA-420. No mention of powerplant yet. Will be interestic to see if it's a derivative of the HF-120. Regardless, they must be very far along in their powerplant selection, otherwise they couldn't make claims like 20% more fuel efficient than light jets, or more than 40% more fuel efficient than midsize jets on similar missions.


So it is a new fuselage then, a new aircraft apart from the 420. We know the wings will be different.
 
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FiscAutTecGarte
Posts: 514
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:51 pm

william wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
I thought I'd followup on this Thread. Honda has released additional information about this concept on the Hondajet.com website. It includes specifications and a brochure. The fuselage width and height are just negligibly more than that of the HA-420. No mention of powerplant yet. Will be interestic to see if it's a derivative of the HF-120. Regardless, they must be very far along in their powerplant selection, otherwise they couldn't make claims like 20% more fuel efficient than light jets, or more than 40% more fuel efficient than midsize jets on similar missions.


So it is a new fuselage then, a new aircraft apart from the 420. We know the wings will be different.


Yeah, seems to be much more than a stretch, re-engine and rewing. However, it appears to have entirely recycled the cockpit section. The fuselage size is so close that I imagine many components are carried right over (windows, interiors,etc).
 
MohawkWeekend
Posts: 1067
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Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:05 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
I thought I'd followup on this Thread. Honda has released additional information about this concept on the Hondajet.com website. It includes specifications and a brochure. The fuselage width and height are just negligibly more than that of the HA-420. No mention of powerplant yet. Will be interestic to see if it's a derivative of the HF-120. Regardless, they must be very far along in their powerplant selection, otherwise they couldn't make claims like 20% more fuel efficient than light jets, or more than 40% more fuel efficient than midsize jets on similar missions.



So if one had to take a WAG, how much less would a charter between say Burbank and Teterboro cost with this new jet compared to an existing mid-sized ?
Lower mortgage, insurance and fuel, yes? $5000?
 
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FiscAutTecGarte
Posts: 514
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:34 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
I thought I'd followup on this Thread. Honda has released additional information about this concept on the Hondajet.com website. It includes specifications and a brochure. The fuselage width and height are just negligibly more than that of the HA-420. No mention of powerplant yet. Will be interestic to see if it's a derivative of the HF-120. Regardless, they must be very far along in their powerplant selection, otherwise they couldn't make claims like 20% more fuel efficient than light jets, or more than 40% more fuel efficient than midsize jets on similar missions.



So if one had to take a WAG, how much less would a charter between say Burbank and Teterboro cost with this new jet compared to an existing mid-sized ?
Lower mortgage, insurance and fuel, yes? $5000?


I have no idea. You'd have to ask a Private Jet owner who is going around kicking tires to answer that question. I might be able to afford a gently used Aerolite-103 one day, but the cost of the time off of work and hotel stays to get from Bubank to Teterboro would kill me.... that's extent of my back of the envelope calculations.. But man, I can dream of one day having my own HA-2600 or P2012 for me, my wife and 6 firends or so... :rotfl:
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8576
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Hondajet 2600 mockup

Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:44 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
I thought I'd followup on this Thread. Honda has released additional information about this concept on the Hondajet.com website. It includes specifications and a brochure. The fuselage width and height are just negligibly more than that of the HA-420. No mention of powerplant yet. Will be interestic to see if it's a derivative of the HF-120. Regardless, they must be very far along in their powerplant selection, otherwise they couldn't make claims like 20% more fuel efficient than light jets, or more than 40% more fuel efficient than midsize jets on similar missions.



So if one had to take a WAG, how much less would a charter between say Burbank and Teterboro cost with this new jet compared to an existing mid-sized ?
Lower mortgage, insurance and fuel, yes? $5000?


$5000 would cover the fuel burn, but that’s it.

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