Dubai Air Show Thread 2021

B787oftheworld · Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:27 am

Dubai Air Show stars on November 14.

We have seen new aircraft announcements, blockbuster orders and much more in the recent shows.

So what are your predictions for this year ? Rumours are welcome as well.

DartHerald · Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:50 pm

No bites yet? To me it looks like the stars of the show will be the 777XF and the A350F but I wouldn't be surprised to see some 737 and A32X orders too.

Opus99 · Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:53 pm

I’m wondering if the 777X will make an appearance

JerseyFlyer · Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:01 pm

Maybe some more clarity about the ME3 777X orders / swapping for 787 / converting 778 to F or 9

B787oftheworld · Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:28 pm

Could Ryanair get the prices they want and place an order ?

pahs2009 · Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:03 pm

do not be surprised if Amazon places an order.

OMAAbound · Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:34 pm

I have heard rumours that the Lufthansa 787 Whitetails will be arriving as a demonstration to others that whitetails are availabe and that Boeing can have them available for airlines should they need/want them.

OMAA

Metchalus · Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:58 pm

Maybe Embraer will give an update on their STOUT programme. They've been silent for a while.

JohanTally · Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:57 am

This was shared by Opus99 in the 777X testing thread but I thought it would be good to have it here as well. The 777X is going to the Dubai Air Show and in the video looks to be practicing it's routine for the show.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jonostrower/ ... 79014?s=21

xwb777 · Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:43 am

Will we see Emirates converting additional B777Xs to B787s ?

pune · Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:46 am

Hopefully, the thread is there till that time so we will know exactly which new Aircraft are shown and what all deals did happen

LoganTheBogan · Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:03 am

I wonder if Qantas will confirm their Sunrise order. They had no worries announcing their group order for the 321XLR at PAS.

Opus99 · Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:22 am

xwb777 wrote:
Will we see Emirates converting additional B777Xs to B787s ?

We very well could see that happening. That’s a point to watch at this airshow.

If the freighter launches - which it should, Boeing might be able to secure enough orders to tend to that wound.

They might also not make a switch depending on two things I think:

The performance that Boeing shares with emirates

The delivery times

From Clark’s recent talks, he might use the delivery time angle as a way to make the switch moreso than performance seeing as according to Boeing based on the data the aircraft is meeting performance targets.

We have to see

Avgeek21 · Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:10 pm

Hopefully some new route announcements from the local carriers?

JohanTally · Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:52 pm

LoganTheBogan wrote:
I wonder if Qantas will confirm their Sunrise order. They had no worries announcing their group order for the 321XLR at PAS.

It was mentioned recently that the order might be placed early 2022 but obviously that could change. The trend unfortunately has been delaying the decisions rather than moving them up.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... n-new-york

Avgeek21 · Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:25 am

flydubai just shared their new Business Class on their MAX via their socials. And it’s not the flat beds found on their current MAX’s. Didn’t see this coming. And it raises a few questions. Will all future MAX deliveries have this style of J seat?

Aircraft is identified as 737 MAX 8H during booking.
https://www.facebook.com/20874888250954 ... 94843/?d=n

den3aah · Sun Oct 31, 2021 3:40 pm

Avgeek21 wrote:
flydubai just shared their new Business Class on their MAX via their socials. And it’s not the flat beds found on their current MAX’s. Didn’t see this coming. And it raises a few questions. Will all future MAX deliveries have this style of J seat?

Aircraft is identified as 737 MAX 8H during booking.
https://www.facebook.com/20874888250954 ... 94843/?d=n

This is so disappointing if true!! are they planning to remove the flat beds on the MAX and have them angled again?? or is this going to be on their refurbished NG's ?

what's going on ?

sibibom · Sun Oct 31, 2021 3:55 pm

Akasa Airline (from India) is going to place order for 100 narrow bodies...it seems to MAX deal based on avaialibilty of slots, unless Airbus can pull a rabbit out of their hat.

Source : https://livefromalounge.com/akasa-rakes ... -aircraft/

Avgeek21 · Sun Oct 31, 2021 4:24 pm

den3aah wrote:
Avgeek21 wrote:
flydubai just shared their new Business Class on their MAX via their socials. And it’s not the flat beds found on their current MAX’s. Didn’t see this coming. And it raises a few questions. Will all future MAX deliveries have this style of J seat?

Aircraft is identified as 737 MAX 8H during booking.
https://www.facebook.com/20874888250954 ... 94843/?d=n

This is so disappointing if true!! are they planning to remove the flat beds on the MAX and have them angled again?? or is this going to be on their refurbished NG's ?

what's going on ?

Seems to be a regional Business Class. No press release yet so we’ll have to guess.

keesje · Sun Oct 31, 2021 4:55 pm

I wonder if Airbus will have A350 announcements, orders, conversions, launching customers.

We could see some orders / conversions to A350-1000's from carriers in the region.

EK painted an A380 for the occasion.

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... r-schiphol

xwb777 · Sun Oct 31, 2021 4:57 pm

Can you elaborate on the ‘ they painted an A380 for the occasion’ part?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

xwb777 · Sun Oct 31, 2021 4:59 pm

Can you elaborate on the ‘ they painted an A380 for the occasion’ part?

Emirates currently has two A380s painted in the Visit Expo livery and a third aircraft will join soon.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jbs2886 · Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:12 pm

keesje wrote:
I wonder if Airbus will have A350 announcements, orders, conversions, launching customers.

We could see some orders / conversions to A350-1000's from carriers in the region.

EK painted an A380 for the occasion.

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... r-schiphol

Why conversions to the -1000? Most conversions have been from the -1000 to the -900.

Further, the Dubai Expo is not the Dubai Airshow, so no it’s not “for the occasion.”

keesje · Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:31 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
keesje wrote:
I wonder if Airbus will have A350 announcements, orders, conversions, launching customers.

We could see some orders / conversions to A350-1000's from carriers in the region.

EK painted an A380 for the occasion.

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... r-schiphol

Why conversions to the -1000? Most conversions have been from the -1000 to the -900.

Further, the Dubai Expo is not the Dubai Airshow, so no it’s not “for the occasion.”

Ah my fault, was wondering about the dates already. :optimist:

Conversions to -1000's seem likely IMO to meet growth expectations and ensure a continuous supply of efficient and fully matured WB aircraft.

Let's hope Scherer and Mounir have some surprises!

Scoreboard · Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:33 pm

Certainly some interesting aircraft on the announced list

https://www.dubaiairshow.aero/aircraft-list

DN4CAAD · Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:37 pm

Ed Bastian will order an A380 to spite AAB

JohanTally · Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:55 pm

keesje wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
keesje wrote:
I wonder if Airbus will have A350 announcements, orders, conversions, launching customers.

We could see some orders / conversions to A350-1000's from carriers in the region.

EK painted an A380 for the occasion.

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... r-schiphol

Why conversions to the -1000? Most conversions have been from the -1000 to the -900.

Further, the Dubai Expo is not the Dubai Airshow, so no it’s not “for the occasion.”

Ah my fault, was wondering about the dates already.

Conversions to -1000's seem likely IMO to meet growth expectations and ensure a continuous supply of efficient and fully matured WB aircraft.

Let's hope Scherer and Mounir have some surprises!

The A35k is a remarkable aircraft but it's possible that it's overbuilt and might never fully achieve the market share that an aircraft that size should. Very few airlines are looking for roughly 77W size and 8700nm range which is why the case for the 778 is on shaky ground. I can't even imagine what the capabilities would be with a NEOd Ultrafan. Some of the A35K orders are likely to not deliver unless a significant change in politics for IR and economic changes for ET.

Opus99 · Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:56 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
keesje wrote:
I wonder if Airbus will have A350 announcements, orders, conversions, launching customers.

We could see some orders / conversions to A350-1000's from carriers in the region.

EK painted an A380 for the occasion.

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... r-schiphol

Why conversions to the -1000? Most conversions have been from the -1000 to the -900.

Further, the Dubai Expo is not the Dubai Airshow, so no it’s not “for the occasion.”

IMHO Ain’t no conversions to anything larger are happening in any region. At least for now.

Who? Emirates? You can forget that, they’ve just recently said they remain only interested in the 900

https://samchui.com/2021/10/19/sir-tim- ... interview/

“The A350 is scheduled for 2023. We're still more aligned to the A350-900, as we're interested in getting that in sooner rather than later. However, we have to map our fleet planning accordingly.”

Goes both for the 1000 and the -9

keesje · Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:15 pm

Opus99 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
keesje wrote:
I wonder if Airbus will have A350 announcements, orders, conversions, launching customers.

We could see some orders / conversions to A350-1000's from carriers in the region.

EK painted an A380 for the occasion.

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... r-schiphol

Why conversions to the -1000? Most conversions have been from the -1000 to the -900.

Further, the Dubai Expo is not the Dubai Airshow, so no it’s not “for the occasion.”

IMHO Ain’t no conversions to anything larger are happening in any region. At least for now.

Who? Emirates? You can forget that, they’ve just recently said they remain only interested in the 900

https://samchui.com/2021/10/19/sir-tim- ... interview/

“The A350 is scheduled for 2023. We're still more aligned to the A350-900, as we're interested in getting that in sooner rather than later. However, we have to map our fleet planning accordingly.”

Goes both for the 1000 and the -9

If you equal "more" and "only" you are right. And it's from a guy that ordered, cancelled and re ordered a lot of the aircraft involved. It seems he himself re evaluates the A350-900 order & suggests alternatives, without being asked about it. Remarkable.

Opus99 · Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:25 pm

keesje wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

Why conversions to the -1000? Most conversions have been from the -1000 to the -900.

Further, the Dubai Expo is not the Dubai Airshow, so no it’s not “for the occasion.”

IMHO Ain’t no conversions to anything larger are happening in any region. At least for now.

Who? Emirates? You can forget that, they’ve just recently said they remain only interested in the 900

https://samchui.com/2021/10/19/sir-tim- ... interview/

“The A350 is scheduled for 2023. We're still more aligned to the A350-900, as we're interested in getting that in sooner rather than later. However, we have to map our fleet planning accordingly.”

Goes both for the 1000 and the -9

If you equal "more" and "only" you are right. And it's from a guy that ordered, cancelled and re ordered a lot of the aircraft involved. It seems he himself re evaluates the A350-900 order & suggests alternatives, without being asked about it. Remarkable.

It seems to you

FiscAutTecGarte · Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:33 pm

Scoreboard wrote:
Certainly some interesting aircraft on the announced list

https://www.dubaiairshow.aero/aircraft-list

I guess Boeing is bringing the 737-9 as it may hand some off to customers. Curious that there are no plans to bring over the 737-10.

Opus99 · Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:39 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
Scoreboard wrote:
Certainly some interesting aircraft on the announced list

https://www.dubaiairshow.aero/aircraft-list

I guess Boeing is bringing the 737-9 as it may hand some off to customers. Curious that there are no plans to bring over the 737-10.

Eco demonstrator that’s why they’re bringing the 737-9

keesje · Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:41 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
Scoreboard wrote:
Certainly some interesting aircraft on the announced list

https://www.dubaiairshow.aero/aircraft-list

I guess Boeing is bringing the 737-9 as it may hand some off to customers. Curious that there are no plans to bring over the 737-10.

Are there Boeing widebodies scheduled? I don't see them on the list, maybe it's an old list.

xwb777 · Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:42 pm

keesje wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
Scoreboard wrote:
Certainly some interesting aircraft on the announced list

https://www.dubaiairshow.aero/aircraft-list

I guess Boeing is bringing the 737-9 as it may hand some off to customers. Curious that there are no plans to bring over the 737-10.

Are there Boeing widebodies scheduled? I don't see them on the list, maybe it's an old list.

The B777-9 is scheduled to make an appearance at the show. This is confirmed by Boeing

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Opus99 · Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:08 pm

xwb777 wrote:
keesje wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

I guess Boeing is bringing the 737-9 as it may hand some off to customers. Curious that there are no plans to bring over the 737-10.

Are there Boeing widebodies scheduled? I don't see them on the list, maybe it's an old list.

The B777-9 is scheduled to make an appearance at the show. This is confirmed by Boeing

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yup, and the list is being updated everyday. the 777-9 WAS on the list initially but it was taken down, not surprised seeing as it was written in an errored format

FiscAutTecGarte · Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:37 pm

I see orders for the Honda 2600.

keesje · Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:53 pm

Opus99 wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
keesje wrote:

Are there Boeing widebodies scheduled? I don't see them on the list, maybe it's an old list.

The B777-9 is scheduled to make an appearance at the show. This is confirmed by Boeing

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yup, and the list is being updated everyday. the 777-9 WAS on the list initially but it was taken down, not surprised seeing as it was written in an errored format

Then I wonder why it is not on the list now. Would they send a modified (controls, software) versions or an unmodified one? They would need an exemption from Emirates authorities, some kind of "experimental" clearance. Either for a prototype not meeting FAA requirements or one with the mods, but restricted because its in the middle / start phase of testing/ early clearances. W'll hear more soon.

xwb777 · Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:08 am

Emirates Chairman: Emirates will engage in discussions with Boeing before and during the Dubai Airshow.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 021-11-01/

RoyalBrunei757 · Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:58 am

xwb777 wrote:
Emirates Chairman: Emirates will engage in discussions with Boeing before and during the Dubai Airshow.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 021-11-01/

I can see them firming up current 115 order and add on more with 779F in the mix. Emirates may once again cancel A350 order. There are just way too many planes in EK's order book now. 50 A350, 115 B77X and 30 B789, not sure how they can absorb all those capacity in post-covid environment.

xwb777 · Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:04 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Emirates Chairman: Emirates will engage in discussions with Boeing before and during the Dubai Airshow.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 021-11-01/

I can see them firming up current 115 order and add on more with 779F in the mix. Emirates may once again cancel A350 order. There are just way too many planes in EK's order book now. 50 A350, 115 B77X and 30 B789, not sure how they can absorb all those capacity in post-covid environment.

In the latest interview with Sir Tim Clark, he has made it clear that Emirates will be receiving the A359s starting from May 2023. He also stated that the airline is interested in taking them earlier than planned. Some of the incoming aircraft will be for replacement.

I do not see the airline canceling the A350 order.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

xwb777 · Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:04 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Emirates Chairman: Emirates will engage in discussions with Boeing before and during the Dubai Airshow.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 021-11-01/

I can see them firming up current 115 order and add on more with 779F in the mix. Emirates may once again cancel A350 order. There are just way too many planes in EK's order book now. 50 A350, 115 B77X and 30 B789, not sure how they can absorb all those capacity in post-covid environment.

In the latest interview with Sir Tim Clark, he has made it clear that Emirates will be receiving the A359s starting from May 2023. He also stated that the airline is interested in taking them earlier than planned. Some of the incoming aircraft will be for replacement.

I do not see the airline canceling the A350 order.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tomcat · Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:34 am

xwb777 wrote:
Emirates Chairman: Emirates will engage in discussions with Boeing before and during the Dubai Airshow.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 021-11-01/

Here is the complete quote:

Emirates will hold talks with Boeing over the delays to its 777X jetliner before and during this month's Dubai Airshow

frigatebird · Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:43 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Emirates Chairman: Emirates will engage in discussions with Boeing before and during the Dubai Airshow.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 021-11-01/

I can see them firming up current 115 order and add on more with 779F in the mix. Emirates may once again cancel A350 order. There are just way too many planes in EK's order book now. 50 A350, 115 B77X and 30 B789, not sure how they can absorb all those capacity in post-covid environment.

EK's 777X order is already firm, they may rearrange something though, like swapping their remaining 777-8 on order for 777XF (if launched).

Actually all of EK's orders are for replacement, and will IMO rationalize their fleet somewhat: 777-9 will quietly replace the A380, and A350/787 will replace the 77W. EK won't cancel the A359 this time, it's the aircraft EK needs most in a post-covid environment IMHO.

mig17 · Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:55 am

I am not overly confident for this airshow :
- A350F and/or 777XF if officialy launch may generate more convesrions than new orders from pax and cargo operators while the full cargo operator will choose only one "king"
- I don't see many new widebody orders comming in while some cancellations/conversions will hit.
- A little more hopefull on the narrowbody side but I fear the all max order for KLM and Transavia including sadly Transavia France.

keesje · Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:00 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Emirates Chairman: Emirates will engage in discussions with Boeing before and during the Dubai Airshow.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 021-11-01/

I can see them firming up current 115 order and add on more with 779F in the mix. Emirates may once again cancel A350 order. There are just way too many planes in EK's order book now. 50 A350, 115 B77X and 30 B789, not sure how they can absorb all those capacity in post-covid environment.

Over the last two years EK cancelled 777x orders and added A350's. Wether they continue this strategy or reverse it, would be based on how both program are doing. I can see EK getting a bit risk averse reading recent interviews with senior management.

frigatebird · Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:12 am

keesje wrote:

Over the last two years EK cancelled 777x orders and added A350's. Wether they continue this strategy or reverse it, would be based on how both program are doing. I can see EK getting a bit risk averse reading recent interviews with senior management.

Ehm, correction: EK swapped some 777X orders for 787s. And swapped part of the remaining A380s on order for A350s. Two different processes in their fleet rationalization.

oldJoe · Mon Nov 01, 2021 12:24 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Emirates Chairman: Emirates will engage in discussions with Boeing before and during the Dubai Airshow.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 021-11-01/

I can see them firming up current 115 order and add on more with 779F in the mix. Emirates may once again cancel A350 order. There are just way too many planes in EK's order book now. 50 A350, 115 B77X and 30 B789, not sure how they can absorb all those capacity in post-covid environment.

Cancel the A350 order once again ? Interview with Emirates President Sir Tim Clark 2 weeks ago :
https://samchui.com/2021/10/19/sir-tim-clark-president-of-emirates-interview/

When will Emirates receive the A350?

The A350 is scheduled for 2023. We're still more aligned to the A350-900, as we're interested in getting that in sooner rather than later. However, we have to map our fleet planning accordingly.

sounds different to me

Stitch · Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:00 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
I guess Boeing is bringing the 737-9 as it may hand some off to customers. Curious that there are no plans to bring over the 737-10.

The 737-10 frame is still doing certification work so I doubt Boeing wants to lose a week-plus shipping it to Dubai to put it on display.

FiscAutTecGarte · Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:29 pm

Stitch wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
I guess Boeing is bringing the 737-9 as it may hand some off to customers. Curious that there are no plans to bring over the 737-10.

The 737-10 frame is still doing certification work so I doubt Boeing wants to lose a week-plus shipping it to Dubai to put it on display.

I thought there were 3 737-10 frames doing certification work. So surpised they can't spare just one of them for a week. Can't you make the shipping part of the certification test campaign? Not arguing, just asking...

Opus99 · Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:33 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
Stitch wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
I guess Boeing is bringing the 737-9 as it may hand some off to customers. Curious that there are no plans to bring over the 737-10.

The 737-10 frame is still doing certification work so I doubt Boeing wants to lose a week-plus shipping it to Dubai to put it on display.

I thought there were 3 737-10 frames doing certification work. So surpised they can't spare just one of them for a week. Can't you make the shipping part of the certification test campaign? Not arguing, just asking...

Currently 2 at the moment. The third is yet to fly. I mean they could.

They could if they really wanted to

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