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outbackair
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Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:01 pm

Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:39 am

I've seen in the news that Manchester United took a 'jet' from Manchester to East Midlands, a hundred mile ten minute flight. They have been criticises for the environmental issues involved. Let's leave that one.

Does anyone know what the aircraft was?

It seems incredible that they justified it due to roadworks on the M6. Given the time that they would have had to get to the airport, check in and wait, then get a coach (bus to our American friends?) from EMA to Leicester, surely they could have taken another route and just relaxed on the coach.

I did once take a British Midland ATP from LHR-BHX-EMA. The second sector was a low altitude, ten minute flight.
 
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xaapb
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:00 pm

Quick search on FlightRadar24 makes me believe it was operated by a British Aerospace Avro 146-RJ100 from Jota Aviation.



https://fr24.com/data/flights/enz750#29840a56

outbackair wrote:
surely they could have taken another route and just relaxed on the coach.


What about taking a train? I’m not from England so I don’t know if that was a possibility.

Greetings :spin:
 
fcogafa
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:13 pm

One Hundred miles in 10 minutes means a speed of 600mph, not bad for a 146
 
outbackair
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:15 pm

[quote="xaapb"]Quick search on FlightRadar24 makes me believe it was operated by a British Aerospace Avro 146-RJ100 from Jota Aviation.

What about taking a train? I’m not from England so I don’t know if that was a possibility.[quote]


Thanks, I'm in Australia so have no idea but from what I looked up they would have had to make a change of trains. Maybe they couldn't handle that.
 
outbackair
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:20 pm

fcogafa wrote:
One Hundred miles in 10 minutes means a speed of 600mph, not bad for a 146


It's a British built aircraft with extra engines for speed! Of course it can do it in 10 minutes!
 
outbackair
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:59 pm

Well, this should annoy some people - a 44 minute positioning flight from Norwich to MAN and then another 27 minute positioning flight from EMA to Stansted. Don't tell anyone who's worried about emissions!
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-jots
 
rutankrd
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:00 pm

Right there is currently a dictate from the English Premier League and as part of the COVID19 restrictions that players shall only travel to other grounds with team members OR in a manner that reduces contact with the general public !
To that end a host of private jets including JOTA and helicopters are being deployed and travel by rail or private car is basically not allowed .Buses to be used only from airport to stadium and back without any breaks or stops.
Environmental and actual costs are lower down the risk analysis on this one at the moment .
Either comply with the COVID risk reductions or don't play in the first team.
Its about maintaining a sterile situation and risk reduction such that enforced vaccination isn't implicated.
The EPL has so much money courtesy of Sky other sponsors and foreign owners including the Glazer family, House of Saud, Dodgy Russian petroleum dollars , Chinese and Emirati princes and some rather quieter in the back ground a fifteen minute flight cost is peanuts .
 
outbackair
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:06 pm

rutankrd wrote:
Right there is currently a dictate from the English Premier League and as part of the COVID19 restrictions that players shall only travel to other grounds with team members OR in a manner that reduces contact with the general public !
To that end a host of private jets including JOTA and helicopters are being deployed and travel by rail or private car is basically not allowed .Buses to be used only from airport to stadium and back without any breaks or stops.
Environmental and actual costs are lower down the risk analysis on this one at the moment .
Either comply with the COVID risk reductions or don't play in the first team.
Its about maintaining a sterile situation and risk reduction such that enforced vaccination isn't implicated.
The EPL has so much money courtesy of Sky other sponsors and foreign owners including the Glazer family, House of Saud, Dodgy Russian petroleum dollars , Chinese and Emirati princes and some rather quieter in the back ground a fifteen minute flight cost is peanuts .


Thank you. A very informative answer. That might explain why JOTA are doing so many odd domestic flights.
 
TC957
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:32 pm

Jota's RJ100 G-JOTS seems to specialize in taking Premier League teams to away matches. Seen it do SOU - MAN for Southampton's game at City and recently LGW - NWI for Brighton at Norwich. This means lots of positioning flights around the country, for collecting and then after dropping off the teams.
 
OMAAbound
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:57 pm

I bet it would have felt like a long flight home after losing 4-2!

Arsenal once did a STN-NWI (I think) a few years ago, that went down really well with everyone!

OMAA
 
Karlsands
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:48 pm

outbackair wrote:
fcogafa wrote:
One Hundred miles in 10 minutes means a speed of 600mph, not bad for a 146


It's a British built aircraft with extra engines for speed! Of course it can do it in 10 minutes!

Read this comment in Jeremy Clarkson's voice haha
 
rutankrd
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:52 pm

Right now 2 Excel 737 carrying West Ham between Speke and Stansted , whilst shortly JOTA will carry Tottenham from Newcastle to Stansted a a few hours.
 
eicvd
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:01 pm

At least that flight was carrying passengers, it’s those bizz jet ferry flights between LTN/STN/FAB etc that need to be cut!
 
CalAir
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:17 pm

I live smack bang inbetween the 2 airports and I always remember a Royal Air Maroc 744 flying over my house as a kid at about 9000ft on a ferry flight to EMA from MAN. As far as the M6 works excuse goes it's rubbish. A34 to Stoke via Congleton then join A50, 40 mins from Stoke to EMA on a good run. Could have easily done the journey in 90 mins by road.
 
rutankrd
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:22 pm

eicvd wrote:
At least that flight was carrying passengers, it’s those bizz jet ferry flights between LTN/STN/FAB etc that need to be cut!
How do you propose to cut ferry flights from bases to where hirers want to start their journeys seriously. BTW those sectors are billed !
 
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journeyperson
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:24 pm

Good to see the BAe 146 and Avro Rjs still in use domestically, I wonder how many are still in service world-wide?
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:00 pm

CalAir wrote:
I live smack bang inbetween the 2 airports and I always remember a Royal Air Maroc 744 flying over my house as a kid at about 9000ft on a ferry flight to EMA from MAN. As far as the M6 works excuse goes it's rubbish. A34 to Stoke via Congleton then join A50, 40 mins from Stoke to EMA on a good run. Could have easily done the journey in 90 mins by road.


That's what I was thinking too, football teams do still travel on coaches despite what a poster above states regarding Covid rules. International teams participating in Euro 2020 at UK venues in the summer were assigned two coaches each.
 
rutankrd
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:09 pm

JannEejit wrote:
CalAir wrote:
I live smack bang inbetween the 2 airports and I always remember a Royal Air Maroc 744 flying over my house as a kid at about 9000ft on a ferry flight to EMA from MAN. As far as the M6 works excuse goes it's rubbish. A34 to Stoke via Congleton then join A50, 40 mins from Stoke to EMA on a good run. Could have easily done the journey in 90 mins by road.


That's what I was thinking too, football teams do still travel on coaches despite what a poster above states regarding Covid rules. International teams participating in Euro 2020 at UK venues in the summer were assigned two coaches each.


EPL coach use must be short and of course they use them didn't say otherwise . Just the use of air reduces the COVID risking THATS the reason.

I was on M25 Friday and passed by the Tottenham coach going to Stansted!

Lower divisions have their own rules and as an avid follower of another code they are talking of more regional tournaments to reduce COVID 19 travel impacts as we speak.
 
F27500
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:32 pm

Why is this so heinous? Would a series of exhaust belching busses (sorry, "coaches") carrying them all have emitted less of these "deadly poisonous, heinous, life-killing substances" a single 146 flying overhead did?

These people all need to lighten up.
 
StTim
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:59 pm

F27500 wrote:
Why is this so heinous? Would a series of exhaust belching busses (sorry, "coaches") carrying them all have emitted less of these "deadly poisonous, heinous, life-killing substances" a single 146 flying overhead did?

These people all need to lighten up.


Two coaches would have emitted far less CO2 etc.
 
GLANKG
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:13 pm

BBC report on this one also includes a chart of average emission per person per km travelled, domestic flight tops at 254g, British Rail 41g, Coach 27g and Eurostar at 6g. (I guess in this case MU did flight + ground transport)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58938198
 
debonair
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:27 pm

Manchester United is not alone with this nonsense...

Bayern Munich recently charted not one but TWO DO328 of Private Wings to fly from OBF to CGN... Ok, the runway in OBF us not long enough for larger jets, but flying instead from MUC with just one plane would have been an alternative.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:59 am

OMG, I thought it was a joke when the Leicester fans were mocking United for this.

I wonder how often this happens?
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:43 am

rutankrd wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
CalAir wrote:
I live smack bang inbetween the 2 airports and I always remember a Royal Air Maroc 744 flying over my house as a kid at about 9000ft on a ferry flight to EMA from MAN. As far as the M6 works excuse goes it's rubbish. A34 to Stoke via Congleton then join A50, 40 mins from Stoke to EMA on a good run. Could have easily done the journey in 90 mins by road.



I was on M25 Friday and passed by the Tottenham coach going to Stansted!

For a second there, I thought you were talking about the...ehem...."technical director" of Tottenham..I thought wow he saw a famous person on the road! :)
 
majano
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:37 am

CalAir wrote:
I live smack bang inbetween the 2 airports and I always remember a Royal Air Maroc 744 flying over my house as a kid at about 9000ft on a ferry flight to EMA from MAN. As far as the M6 works excuse goes it's rubbish. A34 to Stoke via Congleton then join A50, 40 mins from Stoke to EMA on a good run. Could have easily done the journey in 90 mins by road.

90 minutes travelling in a coach a couple of hours before a professional football match?
 
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vhtje
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:40 am

F27500 wrote:
Why is this so heinous? Would a series of exhaust belching busses (sorry, "coaches") carrying them all have emitted less of these "deadly poisonous, heinous, life-killing substances" a single 146 flying overhead did?

These people all need to lighten up.


No, nobody needs to “lighten up”.

The CO2 emissions from an aircraft per person per mile travelled are significantly higher compared to a coach. Someone else upthread posted a link to a BBC analysis. May I suggest you read it?

The question about the wisdom of the use of a jet in this instance is a very valid one, particularly as there would have been no time benefit, which is usually the reason that air transport is chosen. It is proper that it is subjected to public debate.

But, then again, there’s much to question about the actions of the football league, not just their transport choices.
 
AAMDanny
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:21 am

Despite it being 100 miles, it's not a quick journey by road, especially by coach. Either way you have to go AROUND the Peak District, unless you're in a car then it's easier to go through the Peaks if you can navigate the country roads. I know this as I live in MAN but used to have to work at EMA occasionally. If flying to/from on the day eliminates the need for hotel rooms for all the team and support workers it would make economic sense to hire a regional jet for the day to get everyone there and back whilst keeping travel expenses under control.

Personally I'm not endorsing it, but this kind of flying has been done in the UK for years. If it was up to me, I'd tell the Players to drive themselves, they can certainly afford it with the money they're on, if they want to stay over the night before they can do at their own expense.
 
GLANKG
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:17 am

AAMDanny wrote:
If flying to/from on the day eliminates the need for hotel rooms for all the team and support workers it would make economic sense to hire a regional jet for the day to get everyone there and back whilst keeping travel expenses under control.


PL teams travel and stay in hotels the day before games, in this case they flew out on Friday afternoon while the game was Saturday afternoon.
 
GLANKG
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:25 am

Usually almost all PL away games are perfectly reasonable with regular rail service. I do wonder if Newcastle would switch to flying for Southampton or Brighton now that they've got oil cash.
 
TC957
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:29 am

GLANKG wrote:
Usually almost all PL away games are perfectly reasonable with regular rail service. I do wonder if Newcastle would switch to flying for Southampton or Brighton now that they've got oil cash.

I'm pretty sure Newcastle would fly to most of their away games. Think they used the Eastern E70's amongst others.
 
TC957
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Re: Manchester United - MAN-EMA 10 min flight

Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:36 am

The 737-300 G-SWRD is another aircraft often employed by PL teams. As used by Leeds who went to Southampton and then West Ham at Everton last weekend.

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