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boacvc10
Topic Author
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Private airport and US Laws

Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:43 pm

In https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/10/16/twin-cities-man-accused-of-operating-airstrip-in-field-behind-his-home/ individual is reported to have accused of violations by his city for allegedly operating a private airport without ok How is this possible given FAA should know what happens, as do pilots that land and take off and it was visible, apparently operational?
 
qcpilotxf
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:10 am

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:49 pm

The article clearly states that it is against the city code (and likely zoning laws) to operate the airport. The FAA is federal and has nothing to do with municipal rules so they don't talk to each other about things like this, the FAA could care less if it aginst the cities rules to own an airport.
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Private airport and US Laws

Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:51 pm

The airfield apparently contravenes city ordinances which aren't governed by the FAA. The city won't have known/cared until the complaints arrived.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 1812
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:54 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
The airfield apparently contravenes city ordinances which aren't governed by the FAA. The city won't have known/cared until the complaints arrived.

If he registered the strip with the FAA, the locals can’t do schit about it. If the strip existed before the area was put within town limits, the locals can’t do anything about it.

If you bought a home in the new subdivision next door, then freaked out when you saw a low flying plane overhead, sorry about your luck, should have done some due diligence.

Theses issues crop up all of the time, it is almost ALWAYS some Karen that bought a grand new house not realizing that the cool airplanes next door make noise.
 
ChrisKen
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:15 pm

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:20 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
The airfield apparently contravenes city ordinances which aren't governed by the FAA. The city won't have known/cared until the complaints arrived.

If he registered the strip with the FAA, the locals can’t do schit about it. If the strip existed before the area was put within town limits, the locals can’t do anything about it.

If you bought a home in the new subdivision next door, then freaked out when you saw a low flying plane overhead, sorry about your luck, should have done some due diligence.

Theses issues crop up all of the time, it is almost ALWAYS some Karen that bought a grand new house not realizing that the cool airplanes next door make noise.

Not that I actually give a toss, other than answering the OP with the info that they sought but notifying with the FAA doesn't give Joe a free pass on adhering to local laws. Notifying the FAA is just that, a notice so they can update their list of airfields.

and sure enough
faa-form-7480-1 wrote:
Notification to the FAA does not waive the requirements of any other government
agency.


The city was probably unaware until a complaint came in or was aware but didn't want or feel the need to do anything until a complaint was received. Planning violations happen all the time, none of which have actions taken against them until the authority is made aware (and/or is compelled to act).

If the city has ordinances which limit private airfields then they have those ordinances. The locals can't jack but the city can if the airfield is in breach of local law. The airfield operator is responsible for it's compliance with all relevant laws & regulations. If they are, then there's no problem.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Private airport and US Laws

Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:34 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
The airfield apparently contravenes city ordinances which aren't governed by the FAA. The city won't have known/cared until the complaints arrived.

If he registered the strip with the FAA, the locals can’t do schit about it. If the strip existed before the area was put within town limits, the locals can’t do anything about it.


Processes of annexation vary by state. Cities do, generally, have the power to eliminate non-conforming zoned uses that existed prior to annexation.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8589
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:16 pm

There’s something mildly suspicious—it’s been listed with the FAA as MY35 since opening in 2006. Odd, that 15 years later this is suddenly a problem, esp with the number of other small private airports around the MSP area, even in the Class B. We have a bunch here in New England, I was once surprised by the wail of Cessna 185 erupting from beyond a tree line while stopped on a bicycle ride. Sure enough, farmer had his plane and runway about 2 miles from a “real” airport.
 
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Polot
Posts: 12415
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:02 pm

boacvc10 wrote:
How is this possible given FAA should know what happens

There are almost 15,000 private airports in the US. The FAA doesn’t have the time or the manpower to make sure all are legal and following all local laws and ordinances. When you register a private airport in they operate with the assumption that the owner is following all rules and regulations. If not and the airport gets shut down by local authorities the FAA will gladly deregister it.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
There’s something mildly suspicious—it’s been listed with the FAA as MY35 since opening in 2006. Odd, that 15 years later this is suddenly a problem, esp with the number of other small private airports around the MSP area, even in the Class B.

It’s possible local rules and even jurisdiction has changed in the pass 15 years. As someone else stated when it comes to zoning and city ordinances like this things are not always grandfathered in forever. It’s possible rules/zoning was changed specifically to target the private airport.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8589
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:16 pm

Polot wrote:
boacvc10 wrote:
How is this possible given FAA should know what happens

There are almost 15,000 private airports in the US. The FAA doesn’t have the time or the manpower to make sure all are legal and following all local laws and ordinances. When you register a private airport in they operate with the assumption that the owner is following all rules and regulations. If not and the airport gets shut down by local authorities the FAA will gladly deregister it.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
There’s something mildly suspicious—it’s been listed with the FAA as MY35 since opening in 2006. Odd, that 15 years later this is suddenly a problem, esp with the number of other small private airports around the MSP area, even in the Class B.

It’s possible local rules and even jurisdiction has changed in the pass 15 years. As someone else stated when it comes to zoning and city ordinances like this things are not always grandfathered in forever. It’s possible rules/zoning was changed specifically to target the private airport.



Possible, but the article makes it sound like the city ordinances has always been in effect and this isn’t a change. It’s also not clear in the link, whose ordinance it is—Afton or Washington County. If they changed the rule, he should have had a local board to hear the proposed rule change. If it’s always been a rule, why was it allowed for 15 years to operate? It’s pretty much out in the country, from the looks of it and there are many private airports operating nearby. I’m still thinking suspicious problem with typical media garbage reporting.
 
hpff
Posts: 158
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:20 am

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:16 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
There’s something mildly suspicious—it’s been listed with the FAA as MY35 since opening in 2006. Odd, that 15 years later this is suddenly a problem, esp with the number of other small private airports around the MSP area, even in the Class B. We have a bunch here in New England, I was once surprised by the wail of Cessna 185 erupting from beyond a tree line while stopped on a bicycle ride. Sure enough, farmer had his plane and runway about 2 miles from a “real” airport.


This article discusses how the airstrip been an ongoing problem with compliance since its construction in 2006:
https://www.twincities.com/2021/10/05/a ... neighbors/

He was first cited for violating the ordinance in 2006 and was required to plant a tree in the middle of the runway by a court in 2009, which clearly never happened, so it's actually hard to sympathise.
 
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usdcaguy
Posts: 1665
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:27 pm

It’s a shame the guy can’t just go on about his business, but you do have to think about your neighbors, who will never benefit from your own private airstrip yet will have to put up with all your noise from the airstrip. Just another example of the public having to pay for general aviation in some way or another. I think if you have money for a plane, you should pay for a place to fly it where it won’t bother other people. Otherwise, move to a jurisdiction where this isn’t an issue.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8589
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:54 pm

hpff wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
There’s something mildly suspicious—it’s been listed with the FAA as MY35 since opening in 2006. Odd, that 15 years later this is suddenly a problem, esp with the number of other small private airports around the MSP area, even in the Class B. We have a bunch here in New England, I was once surprised by the wail of Cessna 185 erupting from beyond a tree line while stopped on a bicycle ride. Sure enough, farmer had his plane and runway about 2 miles from a “real” airport.


This article discusses how the airstrip been an ongoing problem with compliance since its construction in 2006:
https://www.twincities.com/2021/10/05/a ... neighbors/

He was first cited for violating the ordinance in 2006 and was required to plant a tree in the middle of the runway by a court in 2009, which clearly never happened, so it's actually hard to sympathise.


More facts in evidence, makes the complaint much more believable. I’m still sympathetic based on wide open spaces from the Google Earth view. There are thousands of private airports in the US, not big deal.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 16497
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:05 am

People hate airplanes next door whether a rural area or busy GA field in a suburb. There is no pleasing these malcontents. To them it’s just ‘another guy putting us all in danger with his plane’ :boggled:
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:05 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
hpff wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
There’s something mildly suspicious—it’s been listed with the FAA as MY35 since opening in 2006. Odd, that 15 years later this is suddenly a problem, esp with the number of other small private airports around the MSP area, even in the Class B. We have a bunch here in New England, I was once surprised by the wail of Cessna 185 erupting from beyond a tree line while stopped on a bicycle ride. Sure enough, farmer had his plane and runway about 2 miles from a “real” airport.


This article discusses how the airstrip been an ongoing problem with compliance since its construction in 2006:
https://www.twincities.com/2021/10/05/a ... neighbors/

He was first cited for violating the ordinance in 2006 and was required to plant a tree in the middle of the runway by a court in 2009, which clearly never happened, so it's actually hard to sympathise.


More facts in evidence, makes the complaint much more believable. I’m still sympathetic based on wide open spaces from the Google Earth view. There are thousands of private airports in the US, not big deal.

There are thousands of land fills too, but would you say it was no big deal if one opened next door to your house in violation of the local zoning?
 
tax1k
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:02 am

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:23 am

I looked at the google picture of the area and didn’t see any markings or hangars. At least 8 or 9 months of the year there’s at least a chance of getting some pretty nasty weather in that part of the world. I’ve been snowed in at MSP in May. So how big could this operation have been?
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16497
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:41 am

Aliqiout wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
hpff wrote:

This article discusses how the airstrip been an ongoing problem with compliance since its construction in 2006:
https://www.twincities.com/2021/10/05/a ... neighbors/

He was first cited for violating the ordinance in 2006 and was required to plant a tree in the middle of the runway by a court in 2009, which clearly never happened, so it's actually hard to sympathise.


More facts in evidence, makes the complaint much more believable. I’m still sympathetic based on wide open spaces from the Google Earth view. There are thousands of private airports in the US, not big deal.

There are thousands of land fills too, but would you say it was no big deal if one opened next door to your house in violation of the local zoning?


Not a valid comparison. You’re talking about a major health and safety hazard.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 1812
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:41 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Polot wrote:
boacvc10 wrote:
How is this possible given FAA should know what happens

There are almost 15,000 private airports in the US. The FAA doesn’t have the time or the manpower to make sure all are legal and following all local laws and ordinances. When you register a private airport in they operate with the assumption that the owner is following all rules and regulations. If not and the airport gets shut down by local authorities the FAA will gladly deregister it.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
There’s something mildly suspicious—it’s been listed with the FAA as MY35 since opening in 2006. Odd, that 15 years later this is suddenly a problem, esp with the number of other small private airports around the MSP area, even in the Class B.

It’s possible local rules and even jurisdiction has changed in the pass 15 years. As someone else stated when it comes to zoning and city ordinances like this things are not always grandfathered in forever. It’s possible rules/zoning was changed specifically to target the private airport.



Possible, but the article makes it sound like the city ordinances has always been in effect and this isn’t a change. It’s also not clear in the link, whose ordinance it is—Afton or Washington County. If they changed the rule, he should have had a local board to hear the proposed rule change. If it’s always been a rule, why was it allowed for 15 years to operate? It’s pretty much out in the country, from the looks of it and there are many private airports operating nearby. I’m still thinking suspicious problem with typical media garbage reporting.

Given the explosion of subdivisions in that area, some developer with media connections probably wants the land.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8589
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:43 am

tax1k wrote:
I looked at the google picture of the area and didn’t see any markings or hangars. At least 8 or 9 months of the year there’s at least a chance of getting some pretty nasty weather in that part of the world. I’ve been snowed in at MSP in May. So how big could this operation have been?


There are thousands of these small “farnmer’s fields” across the country. Flying local trainers around Bangor, ME, I gave counting at six one lazy afternoon. There was one not far from me, most didn’t know it existed except for the owner with an old Super Cub.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8589
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:45 am

Aliqiout wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
hpff wrote:

This article discusses how the airstrip been an ongoing problem with compliance since its construction in 2006:
https://www.twincities.com/2021/10/05/a ... neighbors/

He was first cited for violating the ordinance in 2006 and was required to plant a tree in the middle of the runway by a court in 2009, which clearly never happened, so it's actually hard to sympathise.


More facts in evidence, makes the complaint much more believable. I’m still sympathetic based on wide open spaces from the Google Earth view. There are thousands of private airports in the US, not big deal.

There are thousands of land fills too, but would you say it was no big deal if one opened next door to your house in violation of the local zoning?


If it’s a violation of the town, no argument from me, but how did this complaint suddenly make news when the airport’s been there for 15 years and was previously found in violation? When there’s no obvious answer, the answer is money.
 
tax1k
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:02 am

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:01 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
tax1k wrote:
I looked at the google picture of the area and didn’t see any markings or hangars. At least 8 or 9 months of the year there’s at least a chance of getting some pretty nasty weather in that part of the world. I’ve been snowed in at MSP in May. So how big could this operation have been?


There are thousands of these small “farnmer’s fields” across the country. Flying local trainers around Bangor, ME, I gave counting at six one lazy afternoon. There was one not far from me, most didn’t know it existed except for the owner with an old Super Cub.



What you’re saying makes complete sense. But where are the planes? I don’t see any tie downs or taxiways. I assume the guy has a different lane otherwise it’s a huge waste of time and energy.
 
hpff
Posts: 158
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:20 am

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:49 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
hpff wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
There’s something mildly suspicious—it’s been listed with the FAA as MY35 since opening in 2006. Odd, that 15 years later this is suddenly a problem, esp with the number of other small private airports around the MSP area, even in the Class B. We have a bunch here in New England, I was once surprised by the wail of Cessna 185 erupting from beyond a tree line while stopped on a bicycle ride. Sure enough, farmer had his plane and runway about 2 miles from a “real” airport.


This article discusses how the airstrip been an ongoing problem with compliance since its construction in 2006:
https://www.twincities.com/2021/10/05/a ... neighbors/

He was first cited for violating the ordinance in 2006 and was required to plant a tree in the middle of the runway by a court in 2009, which clearly never happened, so it's actually hard to sympathise.


More facts in evidence, makes the complaint much more believable. I’m still sympathetic based on wide open spaces from the Google Earth view. There are thousands of private airports in the US, not big deal.


Most of them aren't within city limits. I don't disagree the strip is more rural than suburban, but this is a pretty clear case of knowing what the local law is and choosing to completely disregard it. There's no reason why he can't move to county land and set up an airstrip there...
 
Exeiowa
Posts: 410
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:49 pm

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:04 pm

The satellite image shows various new construction (you can tell by the lack of grass and piles of dirt) nearby. I suspect that is the answer to why. The next step will be to replace the airstrip with a hog confinement, in Iowa the next state to the south local authorities or neighbors have no ability to regulate the location of these and the associated smell they produce. I do not know about Minnesota's rules, but some of these people might end up wishing for the return of a few planes a year taking off, to the year round stench of pig manure.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Private airport and US Laws

Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:12 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

More facts in evidence, makes the complaint much more believable. I’m still sympathetic based on wide open spaces from the Google Earth view. There are thousands of private airports in the US, not big deal.

There are thousands of land fills too, but would you say it was no big deal if one opened next door to your house in violation of the local zoning?


Not a valid comparison. You’re talking about a major health and safety hazard.

How is a land fill a health and safety hazard????

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