Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
ContinentalEWR
Topic Author
Posts: 4875
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:27 am

With the last days of the Summer 2021 travel season winding down, wondering how EWR-DBV and JFK-DBV performed for UA and DL respectively. DL hasn't confirmed the JFK-DBV flight is returning in Summer 2022 which is somewhat telling. AA was the first of the US3 to fly to DBV nonstop ( from PHL) and did it in Summer 2019, before COVID19, to apparently strong results, on a 767-300ER, but opted not to fly it this Summer.

Curious if the thinking is these routes will come back, or if they were a one time deal given that Croatia was one of a just a few European countries to be open to American tourists as the season first got underway until things gradually opened further.

Two flights a day from the NY Area to DBV, even on a smaller jet, seems like a lot. Curious as to who performed better on this route (UA or DL).
 
User avatar
piedmontf284000
Posts: 536
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:00 pm

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:37 am

United is returning next summer with a 763 from EWR. Delta and AA have yet to show their cards.
 
a318
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:56 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:30 am

Wasn’t there another European charter airline that was running DBV-JFK/LAX on 330’s or 340’s? Or am I just imagining that…
 
User avatar
mooseofspruce
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu May 25, 2017 10:28 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:49 am

a318 wrote:
Wasn’t there another European charter airline that was running DBV-JFK/LAX on 330’s or 340’s? Or am I just imagining that…

Pragusa.One.
Flights never launched and they appear to be in a perpetual state of "reservations opening soon™" for dates between June and October 2021, the dates of which end a couple weeks from now.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3491
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:07 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
United is returning next summer with a 763 from EWR. Delta and AA have yet to show their cards.


It’s been reported here DBV isn’t coming back for DL.
 
User avatar
eurotrader85
Posts: 297
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:45 pm

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:12 am

I'm guessing it will also depend on whether Game of Thrones euphoria will still have the draw for more continued TATL announcements.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:33 am

It was kind of a flop compared to how, for example, Athens performed for the airlines.
 
sfojvjets
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:00 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:55 am

Detroit313 wrote:
It was kind of a flop compared to how, for example, Athens performed for the airlines.

Quite the opposite, at least for UA:

"United to Keep Dubrovnik Flights After 'Incredible' Performance": https://www.exyuaviation.com/2021/10/un ... after.html
"United Airlines overwhelmed with success of Dubrovnik to New York flights – extended schedule for next year": https://www.thedubrovniktimes.com/news/ ... -next-year
Schedule Increase: https://www.total-croatia-news.com/trav ... -dubrovnik

I don't know that you can compare the US-Croatia and US-Greece markets in terms of volume though, especially since the latter is much bigger, more "commercial," and more established, while the former basically only got a spike in attention within the last 5 years (similar to how traffic to other locations, ie Portugal and Iceland, has followed a similar pattern). I would love to compare the markets by LF, but that data is a couple months or so away from being available.

Interesting to note how these newly established markets that I pointed out above performed quite strongly during covid.
 
hpff
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:20 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:44 am

Croatia also had the advantage of being an EU country not subject to the US executive order; I know at least two people who needed to travel to the US, so spent two weeks in Croatia this summer to get around the restriction. Don't know if they flew JFK-DBV but that may have been a one off source of some traffic.

There's also obviously more to Croatia than just GOT and honestly I'm happy that craze is ending and the country's not stuck with it like NZ and Lord of the Rings. Given the fact the Yugoslavian coast was a tourist destination before the war, no reason why Croatian tourism can't remain on an upward trajectory. But DBV is also kind of an awkward destination - not the easiest place in hr to get to!
 
ContinentalEWR
Topic Author
Posts: 4875
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:18 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
United is returning next summer with a 763 from EWR. Delta and AA have yet to show their cards.


It doesn't look like DL is bringing it back from JFK next summer. It has already announced a number of returning flights (PRG, CPH, EDI). DBV wasn't one of them, at least for now.
 
ContinentalEWR
Topic Author
Posts: 4875
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:21 am

Detroit313 wrote:
It was kind of a flop compared to how, for example, Athens performed for the airlines.


Not really a fair or balanced comparison. First, Greece is a much larger market, even without or with limited cruise traffic. Greece opened to vaccinated US travelers early and typically does very well in summer. Also, Athens wasn't a new market. If anything, it's a relatively mature one. DL upped the frequency on JFK to 2 x daily in peak season, AA launched JFK (but already had established ORD-ATH as a success and restarted PHL-ATH in August), and UA resumed EWR-ATH and upgauged it to a 772 earlier than planned (this route typically had flown with 763/764 pre-pandemic). UA is, as of now, restarting EWR-ATH in April, not in late May as is usually the case.
 
TravelsUK
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:30 am

Detroit313 wrote:
It was kind of a flop compared to how, for example, Athens performed for the airlines.



Population of the greater Athens region just over 3 million people, population of the town of Dubrovnik just over 40 thousand. Possibly something to do with it?

It's only Americans using the cruise ships to 'do' Europe that would be interested in such a route and the cruise industry is pretty much dead in the Adriatic right now, unlike O&D traffic to and from Athens.
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 7757
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:48 am

TravelsUK wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
It was kind of a flop compared to how, for example, Athens performed for the airlines.



Population of the greater Athens region just over 3 million people, population of the town of Dubrovnik just over 40 thousand. Possibly something to do with it?

It's only Americans using the cruise ships to 'do' Europe that would be interested in such a route and the cruise industry is pretty much dead in the Adriatic right now, unlike O&D traffic to and from Athens.

Greece will continue to be strong as long as the ancient times continue to be taught in schools and the rich keep making shows about them travelling to Mykonos, Santorini, etc...
 
TC957
Posts: 4173
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:57 am

No mainline cruise ships are based at DBV - it's a stopping off point for cruises that orginate or end in Venice. But there are many small ship cruises that are based there for a week's cruising around the lovely islands and coast of Croatia up to Split. It's a great holiday for those that don't like mega ships.
Whether these small vessels ( usually capacity of 30 - 80 guests ) will help entice US airlines to serve DBV compared to much larger ships based at Pireaus ( Athens ) for Greek Island cruises is interesting.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1405
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:39 pm

Wonder how many people from the UA flights used Star partner Croatia Airlines to connect to Zagreb. That could be enough to make the difference between staying (UA) or not (DL - maybe?).
 
airbazar
Posts: 10527
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:47 pm

It's not really a cruise destination. Dubrovnik is/was the new Amalfi Coast, albeit with better night life hence why it attracts a slightly younger clientele. With the rest of Europe opening up next Summer it's unlikely that Dubrovnik will see as many American visitors.
 
ContinentalEWR
Topic Author
Posts: 4875
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:54 pm

airbazar wrote:
It's not really a cruise destination. Dubrovnik is/was the new Amalfi Coast, albeit with better night life hence why it attracts a slightly younger clientele. With the rest of Europe opening up next Summer it's unlikely that Dubrovnik will see as many American visitors.


It was a hot tourist destination thanks to Game of Thrones and the second Mamma Mia! movie, filmed there. DBV was, like Venice, Iceland, and that bridge where everyone chains locks in Paris, one of the most over run destinations, and it was / is a stop on the Adriatic cruise itineraries.
 
User avatar
airzim
Posts: 1551
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2001 7:40 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:11 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
airbazar wrote:
It's not really a cruise destination. Dubrovnik is/was the new Amalfi Coast, albeit with better night life hence why it attracts a slightly younger clientele. With the rest of Europe opening up next Summer it's unlikely that Dubrovnik will see as many American visitors.


It was a hot tourist destination thanks to Game of Thrones and the second Mamma Mia! movie, filmed there. DBV was, like Venice, Iceland, and that bridge where everyone chains locks in Paris, one of the most over run destinations, and it was / is a stop on the Adriatic cruise itineraries.


I went a few years ago, flying into Split and out of DBV. I spent the majority of time on Hvar, did the local ferry to DBV and spent two night there. While I agree that there were many tourists in DBV doing the GOT and Star Wars tours, we did a more historical tour which was fantastic. I can't say enough about Hvar and the outer islands. Fantastic holiday.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1405
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:23 pm

People are super focused on Croatia, but many forget (or don't realize) that Dubrovnik is located in close proximity to two foreign countries too. I have no idea what the boarders are like right now with COVID, but Kotor (and neighboring beach cities) in Montenegro and Mostar/Sarajevo in Bosnia are both popular side trips from southern Croatia (and both are significantly closer than Zagreb).
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1405
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:27 pm

airbazar wrote:
It's not really a cruise destination. Dubrovnik is/was the new Amalfi Coast, albeit with better night life hence why it attracts a slightly younger clientele. With the rest of Europe opening up next Summer it's unlikely that Dubrovnik will see as many American visitors.


Tough to say. It's definitely on the map now...five years ago, when I went to Dubrovnik (and other places in the region) for the first time, many of my "non travel" friends (people who only go on vacation once every few years and usually to well-trodden spots like France or the Caribbean) had to ask me where it was. Now, I have quite a few non-travel friends asking me if I've been there, wanting to go themselves. Demand *might* let up a bit as other places open, but I don't think it will drop much.
 
FluidFlow
Posts: 1149
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:29 pm

From a European point of view the eastern side of the Adriatic coast is a big tourist destination for summer holidays, especially for young tourists. Spring Break is huge and it is a low cost option compared to the Italian and Spanish tourist destinations. On top of that the coast is not as overrun as the Italians are so it is a somewhat more relaxing summer holiday destination. With Dubrovnik as a somewhat central point you can reach any location from Slovenia all the way down to the Greek border within a day.

I do not know how it is marketed to the US tourist though, because as a cheap beach holiday it will be a hard sell if you need to take a TATL flight instead of places in the Caribbean.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 12389
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:59 pm

FluidFlow wrote:
I do not know how it is marketed to the US tourist though, because as a cheap beach holiday it will be a hard sell if you need to take a TATL flight instead of places in the Caribbean.

Cheap European vacations are never a hard sell to Americans. The issue is yield and demand at a price you can make money off of.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10174
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:08 pm

Polot wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
I do not know how it is marketed to the US tourist though, because as a cheap beach holiday it will be a hard sell if you need to take a TATL flight instead of places in the Caribbean.

Cheap European vacations are never a hard sell to Americans. The issue is yield and demand at a price you can make money off of.


I'd say the biggest issue is awareness. 95 out of a hundred Americans couldn't find Croatia on a map, let alone name four attractions that would prompt a week-long vacation. Game of Thrones will go only so far. If UA can get 85% loads on a 767 at decent yields 4x weekly Jun-Sep, great. The fact that one carrier finds success NYC-DBV doesn't mean there's room for a second carrier.
 
skymiler
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:00 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:18 pm

I was in DBV a few weeks ago. I was visiting Czechia and Serbia as well.
Some subjective observations:
The hotel staff (Hilton Imperial) were thankful for the direct flights, as were other establishments. They were helping keep them alive.
Speaking with guests who were at the Hilton, most came on DL/UA and in premium cabins.
With a little planning flying out of DBV to other locations in Europe is cheap and easy. There are quick hops daily to ZAG and one goes from there.
When I had to change my itinerary (I was booked on DL non stop in F) I could not find available flights -- they were fully sold out in F. Ended on DL/KLM via AMS to PRA for 3 days and then an easy PRG-VIE-DBV on Austrian.
DBV was not too busy due to pandemic, and thus was pleasant. I would hate to be there at normal times when a cruise ship drops a mob for a day visit.
 
FluidFlow
Posts: 1149
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:27 pm

skymiler wrote:
I was in DBV a few weeks ago. I was visiting Czechia and Serbia as well.
Some subjective observations:
The hotel staff (Hilton Imperial) were thankful for the direct flights, as were other establishments. They were helping keep them alive.
Speaking with guests who were at the Hilton, most came on DL/UA and in premium cabins.
With a little planning flying out of DBV to other locations in Europe is cheap and easy. There are quick hops daily to ZAG and one goes from there.
When I had to change my itinerary (I was booked on DL non stop in F) I could not find available flights -- they were fully sold out in F. Ended on DL/KLM via AMS to PRA for 3 days and then an easy PRG-VIE-DBV on Austrian.
DBV was not too busy due to pandemic, and thus was pleasant. I would hate to be there at normal times when a cruise ship drops a mob for a day visit.


The cruise pax misses the best time to be there anyway. Dubrovnik as well as Venice are the most beautiful around sunset/sunrise to explore. Luckily then the cities are only pleasently crowded.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10527
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:50 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
airbazar wrote:
It's not really a cruise destination. Dubrovnik is/was the new Amalfi Coast, albeit with better night life hence why it attracts a slightly younger clientele. With the rest of Europe opening up next Summer it's unlikely that Dubrovnik will see as many American visitors.


It was a hot tourist destination thanks to Game of Thrones and the second Mamma Mia! movie, filmed there. DBV was, like Venice, Iceland, and that bridge where everyone chains locks in Paris, one of the most over run destinations, and it was / is a stop on the Adriatic cruise itineraries.


I'll take your word for it because I never seen either GOT nor Mama Mia and was today's years old when I found out that both were filmed there :)
As for the cruises, those are predominantly filled with European customers. I'm not sure the European cruise itineraries are on the radar of many Americans. In the Summer American cruise customers tend to look to Alaska.

MIflyer12 wrote:
I'd say the biggest issue is awareness. 95 out of a hundred Americans couldn't find Croatia on a map, let alone name four attractions that would prompt a week-long vacation.


You're not wrong but you could say that about many other destinations. Heck I bet there are people who go to Cancun on vacation but can't find it on a map. The other side of the story is this: The 5% that do know where it is account for 3.5 million people :)
 
ContinentalEWR
Topic Author
Posts: 4875
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:54 pm

airbazar wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
airbazar wrote:
It's not really a cruise destination. Dubrovnik is/was the new Amalfi Coast, albeit with better night life hence why it attracts a slightly younger clientele. With the rest of Europe opening up next Summer it's unlikely that Dubrovnik will see as many American visitors.


It was a hot tourist destination thanks to Game of Thrones and the second Mamma Mia! movie, filmed there. DBV was, like Venice, Iceland, and that bridge where everyone chains locks in Paris, one of the most over run destinations, and it was / is a stop on the Adriatic cruise itineraries.


I'll take your word for it because I never seen either GOT nor Mama Mia and was today's years old when I found out that both were filmed there :)
As for the cruises, those are predominantly filled with European customers. I'm not sure the European cruise itineraries are on the radar of many Americans. In the Summer American cruise customers tend to look to Alaska.

MIflyer12 wrote:
I'd say the biggest issue is awareness. 95 out of a hundred Americans couldn't find Croatia on a map, let alone name four attractions that would prompt a week-long vacation.


You're not wrong but you could say that about many other destinations. Heck I bet there are people who go to Cancun on vacation but can't find it on a map. The other side of the story is this: The 5% that do know where it is account for 3.5 million people :)


Pre-pandemic, European cruises broadly were very popular with American tourists on all types of budgets. This is why there were so many nonstops to BCN, VCE, and extra capacity to places like FCO, ATH, etc...all of which are starting points of end points for all types of cruises. An anticipation of a broader return to cruising in Summer 2022 is what is triggering UA to to add BGO nonstop from EWR as many Fjord cruises depart from BGO or end there. Not all Americans go to Alaska on Summer cruises. The Mediterranean is a hot market for US cruise customers and are VERY much on the radar of Americans.
 
BTV290
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:33 pm

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:39 pm

Although I know this is relatively common practice, I can say DL left nothing behind in DBV. All staff for the season were on temporary assignment from other European stations that were either dormant or had reduced flight activity, so withdrawing from the market would take literally no effort... I hope they go back, though. It was a neat little flight!
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10174
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:02 pm

airbazar wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
I'd say the biggest issue is awareness. 95 out of a hundred Americans couldn't find Croatia on a map, let alone name four attractions that would prompt a week-long vacation.


You're not wrong but you could say that about many other destinations. Heck I bet there are people who go to Cancun on vacation but can't find it on a map. The other side of the story is this: The 5% that do know where it is account for 3.5 million people :)


It's hard to go wrong underestimating world geography skills of Americans (and I am one), but the difference with Cancun is that Americans know why they want to go there - beaches, sun, parties. Dubrovnik is lovely (I visited long before GOT, and it was busy even then) but it just isn't on the radar. UA might take 11K people to DBV on its non-stops next year. 3.2 million Americans went to Italy in 2019.
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1675
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:44 am

While not the volume of Italians heading there, more Americans are going to Međugorje these days and DBV is a main stop for those traveller's (Mostar is growing in the charter market but not from North America) to get there. I know one group of over 200 American visitors went over three UA flights this summer, for example, so while small and lower yielding there is a growing market for such travel too; that and the fact it is more popular with Americans than some here think means UA should be able to run it seasonally as the sole US carrier. Hopefully they can make the yields work too. Loved my many visits to Hr!
 
hpff
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:20 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:13 am

Split is trying to figure out how to get a direct flight as well especially with the new visa waiver program: https://www.croatiaweek.com/when-will-s ... p-flights/
 
User avatar
airzim
Posts: 1551
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2001 7:40 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:27 pm

hpff wrote:
Split is trying to figure out how to get a direct flight as well especially with the new visa waiver program: https://www.croatiaweek.com/when-will-s ... p-flights/


What's amazing about Split is the proximity to the sea. We landed on a BA flight into Split, picked up our baggage, were met by a van that drove us in 2 minutes to a slip with a waiting speed boat and we were off for the hour ride to Hvar. Way better than any taxi.

At one point Uber tried UberBoat in the region, but I don't think it worked out after one season.
 
User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:40 pm

FlyingSicilian wrote:
While not the volume of Italians heading there, more Americans are going to Međugorje these days and DBV is a main stop for those traveller's (Mostar is growing in the charter market but not from North America) to get there. I know one group of over 200 American visitors went over three UA flights this summer, for example, so while small and lower yielding there is a growing market for such travel too; that and the fact it is more popular with Americans than some here think means UA should be able to run it seasonally as the sole US carrier. Hopefully they can make the yields work too. Loved my many visits to Hr!


Mostar is a fascinating place - the intersection of so many cultures over history and watching the locals dive off the bridge.

I know that some people visiting Medjugorje, Mostar and that area of Bosnia / Herzegovina also fly into Sarajevo, although it's a drive. I have done both and prefer Split / Dubrovnik, depending on what else I'm doing.
Last edited by tlecam on Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 1667
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:40 pm

Split city centre has a lot less wow factor than Dubrovnik. It seems that Split is more of a transit centre on the way to islands, while Dubrovnik is a stronger destination in its own right. This translates into a harder sell for long haul flights. The US-Croatia coast market will need maybe a couple of years more to mature before I think it will be ready for a US-Split flight

To those who mention Mostar, it is a 2h+ drive from Dubrovnik. Lovely city, but a bit of a trek
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 14306
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:17 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
I'd say the biggest issue is awareness. 95 out of a hundred Americans couldn't find Croatia on a map, let alone name four attractions that would prompt a week-long vacation.

True, very true... but that's more a function of USAmericans' incalculable ignorance when it comes to matters of geography.

You'd have the same result, asking them to find France on an unlabeled map. Never in a million years be able to do it.

The difference is, everyone here knows about Paris, and it's a cultural "expectation" (for lack of a better word) to go there, or London, or similar, if you're going to go on a European vacation. I doubt most have ever even heard of Croatia, couldn't name a single city there, and as stated in the above post, could never come up with a reason to travel there.
 
hpff
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:20 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:31 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
I'd say the biggest issue is awareness. 95 out of a hundred Americans couldn't find Croatia on a map, let alone name four attractions that would prompt a week-long vacation.

True, very true... but that's more a function of USAmericans' incalculable ignorance when it comes to matters of geography.

You'd have the same result, asking them to find France on an unlabeled map. Never in a million years be able to do it.

The difference is, everyone here knows about Paris, and it's a cultural "expectation" (for lack of a better word) to go there, or London, or similar, if you're going to go on a European vacation. I doubt most have ever even heard of Croatia, couldn't name a single city there, and as stated in the above post, could never come up with a reason to travel there.


I don't think that's true at all - I'd venture to guess most Americans who would have the means of going on holiday to Europe would at least be familiar with Croatia, even if they couldn't necessarily find it on a map. It's really changed in the last decade or so, Michael Jordan even visited I think this year. Also convinced Vatreni making the World Cup final in 2018 was great unintentional marketing.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 14306
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:09 pm

hpff wrote:
I don't think that's true at all - I'd venture to guess most Americans who would have the means of going on holiday to Europe would at least be familiar with Croatia

...then congratulations on demonstrating that you know nothing about USAmericans then. ;) :lol:

But seriously, money doesn't equate to familiarity. At all.

And it's not cast aspersions on their intelligence; it's not that-- the same people who can't find a state other than Florida or Texas, could tell you every football stat going back to 1948. It's just priority. And unfortunately; when looking at everything from travel patterns, to both O&D and passport-holder percentage relative to population; this country's people are clear laggards within the developed world. :(
 
hpff
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:20 am

Re: US-Dubrovnik - Summer 2021 Results

Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:25 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
hpff wrote:
I don't think that's true at all - I'd venture to guess most Americans who would have the means of going on holiday to Europe would at least be familiar with Croatia

...then congratulations on demonstrating that you know NOTHING about USAmericans :lol: :lol:

But seriously, money doesn't equate to familiarity. At all.

And it's not cast aspersions on their intelligence; it's not that-- the same people who can't find a state other than Florida or Texas, could tell you every football stat going back to 1948. It's just priority. And unfortunately; when looking at everything from travel patterns, to both O&D and passport-holder percentage relative to population; this country's people are clear laggards within the developed world. :(


None of that is wrong, but my experience over the past decade or so, most of it in the US, is that Americans who would go on holiday in Europe, especially people who would have grown up after independence, are familiar with Croatia, even if they don't know anything past GOT was filmed there or the fact you can party on Hvar (I have had to tell people asking for advice not to go to Zagreb unless it's cheaper to fly through there, since they weren't looking for a city getaway and didn't understand the geography.) I'm not sure the 2022 market's robust enough for multiple non-stops to Dalmatia, but there's enough US tourists specifically visiting Croatia that a 3-5x weekly Split or Dubrovnik flight should be profitable, and more Croatians may be visiting the US next year as well due to the new visa requirements.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos