SN has set a press event for November 18, promising the announcement of a “new chapter for a Brussels Airlines.” My money is on a new livery — there are three A330s in interim or Eurowings livery — but curious if anyone has any intel otherwise?

A new livery isn’t a big enough event to warrant being called a new chapter. It surely has to something more fundamental related to a new marketing or operational strategy?

A new chapter sounds to me like rebranding. Maybe a new name to represent Belgium as a whole?

Brusselswings? Hopefully not.
Sabena would be cool.

What about Luftwaefel or Brusseleir ?

Leej wrote:

A new chapter - Brussel Sprouts?

How did you guess? The new livery will be gravy colour with a Brussel Sprout on the tail and the on-board menu has been changed to a box of steamed brussel sprouts with waffles for desert.

Why would they change their name?
They are known as Brussels Airlines, a change of name would be giving a bad signal these days IMHO.

The real question if there is any new or old chapter where SN can make money? Seems like they are destined to be perpetually loss-making.

Blerg wrote:

The real question if there is any new or old chapter where SN can make money? Seems like they are destined to be perpetually loss-making.

FWIW- they are actually the only passenger airline within the entire LH group to be constantly flying cash positive since they've relaunched in summer 2020, this thanks to their unique network in Central Africa. Their robust financial performance has moved them up quite a bit on the ladder within the group too, as evidenced by the fact the CEO who oversaw this strong achievement got promoted to CEO of LX recently.

As to the "new chapter": I'd say it's a new corporate look, including a new livery.
Expect it to be along the lines of what we've seen done to LH, OS or LX: so predominantly white with blue as sole other colour.
There's a nice cost saving in there too by going for such a simplification, btw.

Maybe the gray belly will be axed and in favor to more euro-white (as standard in the LH group)

B737MAX wrote:

Why would they change their name?
They are known as Brussels Airlines, a change of name would be giving a bad signal these days IMHO.

SABENA ?

sabenapilot wrote:

FWIW- they are actually the only passenger airline within the entire LH group to be constantly flying cash positive...

Cash positive doesn't automatically mean profitable, and it certainly doesn't mean that a business is hitting its target ROIC.

The “new” final chapter: Declare bankrupt and start insolvency proceeding

I assume some fleet renewals will be announced. Some 787’s would fit very well.

Could it be something as basic as a new uniform? New chapter is vague - not sure there is enough certainty for a new strategy, better to let the dust settle and maybe in 12-24months

MIflyer12 wrote:

sabenapilot wrote:

FWIW- they are actually the only passenger airline within the entire LH group to be constantly flying cash positive...

Cash positive doesn't automatically mean profitable, and it certainly doesn't mean that a business is hitting its target ROIC.

Nobody said so.

What was rightfully said is that they are the only passenger airline within the Lufthansa group not to have lost any money with their operations ever since this global Covid shitstorm happened.

To put it provocatively- they've lost money not from flying, but from not being able to fly more than they could.

Let's speculate:
- long overdue fleet renewal
- entering the cargo market
- entering the night train market or high speed train market
- taking over Air Belgium (which would initiate the fleet renewal and allow to enter the cargo market all at once)

Could we see a new rebranding as SABENA, with the S being reinstated on the tail of their aircraft?

I for one do not share the opinion that this will be a new colour scheme and/or a rebranding. The current brand and colour scheme are not broken, so IMHO they should not be fixed

A new chapter signals to me that something significant will change, be it business model, European routes, Africa network, fleet, I guess we will have to be patient and wait!

Edit to add: if my memory serves me correctly, the name Sabena is not available, it is somehow protected. I did a quick search but could not find anything to justify my claim!

Rebrand to "Eurowings". Not "Eurowings Belgium", just simple "Eurowings"

davidjohnson6 wrote:

Rebrand to "Eurowings". Not "Eurowings Belgium", just simple "Eurowings"

Wasn't that already the plan last year or the year before and then cancelled?

Edit: Seems LH believed that Eurowings wouldn't be a good brand for the Africa flights.
https://simpleflying.com/brussels-airli ... eurowings/

My guess is the “new chapter” is realigning SN within the LH group, back towards the network carrier status rather than Eurowings. Essentially just operating its hub at BRU, as OS does at VIE and LX at ZRH. LH has finally done what it needed to and launched Eurowings Discover, with its own AOC, so SN does not need to operate Eurowings branded wide bodies.

peterinlisbon wrote:

Leej wrote:

A new chapter - Brussel Sprouts?

How did you guess? The new livery will be gravy colour with a Brussel Sprout on the tail and the on-board menu has been changed to a box of steamed brussel sprouts with waffles for desert.

I'll skip to the waffles!

Reverting to the old Sabena brand? That would be nice on the hand (lots of history and heritage) but would also be a drag (it is a company that got liquidated). Just an idea.

Hmm, five references to rebranding to Sabena so far.

We get it, people love nostalgia.

Not sure it'd help attract new business though.

Younger people would have to google what it's all about, and perhaps may not like what they find.

MIflyer12 wrote:

sabenapilot wrote:

FWIW- they are actually the only passenger airline within the entire LH group to be constantly flying cash positive...

Cash positive doesn't automatically mean profitable, and it certainly doesn't mean that a business is hitting its target ROIC.

Also, what I don't get is why is the CEO moving to LX if he is turning things around for SN? Wouldn't it make more sense for him to stay there and keep on doing what he does best?

Revelation wrote:

Hmm, five references to rebranding to Sabena so far.

We get it, people love nostalgia.

Not sure it'd help attract new business though.

Younger people would have to google what it's all about, and perhaps may not like what they find.

I think most people won't care as long as they get them from point A to point B. It's not like people are rushing to pay a premium to fly on SN.

Belgium Airlines? With this livery:

Hey does anyone know what's the deal with OO-SFB, it's in Eurowings everything but says it's flying for Brussels airlines.

tomcat wrote:

- entering the night train market or high speed train market

Code shares on high speed trains would be nice for passengers to connect to their long haul network. Obvious candidates would be Paris, London, Amsterdam and Cologne / Frankfurt.

Noshow wrote:

Brusselswings? Hopefully not.
Sabena would be cool.

Oh, yes. Remember that brand well........ Sex and Beauty Every Night Again

I think it has more to do with new tax that the government just enacted on flights under 500 km. I think it is going to make Brussels airlines become more of a medium and long haul carrier.

"At the same time, the destinations that fill into the 500-kilometre radius, considered short-distance flights, are some of the busiest transport hubs in Europe. They include Frankfurt, Amsterdam, London, Stuttgart, Paris, Hamburg, and even Zurich in Switzerland."

"The government has yet to announce any official guidelines for airports and airlines, or how it plans to collect the tax, however, Brussels Airlines should be the hardest hit by the measures, as most of their flights operate within that radius."


https://www.themayor.eu/en/a/view/belgi ... etres-9108

Well at least better than SN Brussels or other variations. Or these modern day synthetic LH "wings group" affiliate brandings. Belgium is a graphic art country.
If you ask me I would combine the traditional name and some avantgarde livery done by their best designers.

Blerg wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

sabenapilot wrote:

FWIW- they are actually the only passenger airline within the entire LH group to be constantly flying cash positive...

Cash positive doesn't automatically mean profitable, and it certainly doesn't mean that a business is hitting its target ROIC.

Also, what I don't get is why is the CEO moving to LX if he is turning things around for SN? Wouldn't it make more sense for him to stay there and keep on doing what he does best?

Short answer and question at the same time: Have you ever looked at the income opportunities in both countries, which automatically answers your question?
That’s the difference between sleeping in a normal bed and a king’s bed

Taking over ITA to merge with Brussels Airlines to create SabenItalia.

airsmiles wrote:

Taking over ITA to merge with Brussels Airlines to create SabenItalia.

Even burning euro bills would make more sense because they would at least generate heat

seansasLCY wrote:

davidjohnson6 wrote:

Rebrand to "Eurowings". Not "Eurowings Belgium", just simple "Eurowings"

Wasn't that already the plan last year or the year before and then cancelled?

Edit: Seems LH believed that Eurowings wouldn't be a good brand for the Africa flights.
https://simpleflying.com/brussels-airli ... eurowings/

...here's a question - would basing Eurowings, in Belgium (or at least having a large base there) not cost less that the same resources based in Germany?

Not saying that the brand loyalty doesn't work (Eurowings to Brussels...call it the Euro ride), however - why not have a leading, working project - where numerous business changes have not worked for the network's model for a 'typical/legacy carrier'. Seems inevitable, and who better to provide the medium/long-haul operations but Eurowings?

What were Brussles Airline's key profitable routes? All things considering, what business travel rebound there is - it need not be a market driver, given the new realities of flying. Partner United's response to the similar markets...

https://www.fool.com/investing/2021/10/19/united-airlines-ambitious-international-expansion/
Transatlantic flights account for the vast majority of the 17 long-haul routes that United plans to launch next spring -- and all of the 10 new routes announced last week. Furthermore, the vast majority of the newly announced routes will appeal primarily to leisure travelers.

...and rounding to simple flying:

https://simpleflying.com/united-premium-economy-767-a321xlr/It is now official: United Airlines will retrofit its remaining Boeing 767-300ERs with a dedicated international premium economy and offer the product onboard all of its upcoming Airbus A321XLR aircraft. Andrew Nocella, Chief Commercial Officer at United, revealed this on the carrier’s third-quarter earnings call. The reason for this is simple: United is seeing a lot of premium leisure demand and wants to capitalize on that.

So, for UA - I am seeing the expansion, and the vehicle - and the same market force at work for both. Eurowings could pair, or provide a similar product in the reciprocal direction. LH would be smart to see what works - well, why, and where. This might help LH with brand differentiation (if/when needed), contract negotiations (with labour), and would help further the current stated goals of LH, which are to expand into the market further.

sassiciai wrote:

Edit to add: if my memory serves me correctly, the name Sabena is not available, it is somehow protected. I did a quick search but could not find anything to justify my claim!

It's now owned by Sabena Aerospace (formally known as Sabena Technics / TAT Technics).
https://www.boip.int/en/trademarks-regi ... 2Fbx791328

Nothing is impossible if Brussels airlines want to pay a license fee to use the name.

Blerg wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

sabenapilot wrote:

FWIW- they are actually the only passenger airline within the entire LH group to be constantly flying cash positive...

Cash positive doesn't automatically mean profitable, and it certainly doesn't mean that a business is hitting its target ROIC.

Also, what I don't get is why is the CEO moving to LX if he is turning things around for SN? Wouldn't it make more sense for him to stay there and keep on doing what he does best?

Didn’t this happen months ago already?

RvA wrote:

Blerg wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

Cash positive doesn't automatically mean profitable, and it certainly doesn't mean that a business is hitting its target ROIC.

Also, what I don't get is why is the CEO moving to LX if he is turning things around for SN? Wouldn't it make more sense for him to stay there and keep on doing what he does best?

Didn’t this happen months ago already?

Anything but Brussels Airlines is good!

Cardude2 wrote:

Hey does anyone know what's the deal with OO-SFB, it's in Eurowings everything but says it's flying for Brussels airlines.

OO-SFB is part of the Brussels Airlines fleet. It used to fly for Eurowings, but the latter has its own long-haul fleet now (Eurowings Discover). At the next big maintenance, OO-SFB will be re-painted in the Brussels Airlines colours.

Does Brussels Airlines own the Sabena name and logo ? Would be cool if they brought it back.

FCOTSTW wrote:

Reverting to the old Sabena brand? That would be nice on the hand (lots of history and heritage) but would also be a drag (it is a company that got liquidated). Just an idea.

And SABENA is an acronym from the French - not a good idea in Belgium these days.

sgbroimp wrote:

Noshow wrote:

Brusselswings? Hopefully not.
Sabena would be cool.

Oh, yes. Remember that brand well........ Sex and Beauty Every Night Again

Rather... Such A Bloody Experience, Never Again

I see a new livery with some refreshed but not completely changed branding. Nothing special, not really any new services/higher business model stuff, just the look. Maybe a few new/restarted-after-COVID-destinations. Something less than we’re all going to instantly make it out to be on this site. Maybe it’s just going back to New York. Really not thinking much here.

I doubt fleet renewal is an option on the table here, but 338 or 9 would be a great choice for Africa and a couple NA routes. 338 could offer some more frequency with the lesser seats (unless they need the scale to make those African destinations work…). 339 is a more direct, fuel efficient replacement. Once again, doubt it. Premium Econ was recent and that would be quite the investment for a very short time.

ahj2000 wrote:

I doubt fleet renewal is an option on the table here, but 338 or 9 would be a great choice for Africa and a couple NA routes. 338 could offer some more frequency with the lesser seats (unless they need the scale to make those African destinations work…). 339 is a more direct, fuel efficient replacement. Once again, doubt it. Premium Econ was recent and that would be quite the investment for a very short time.

Brussels Airlines has dumped all their A332s (which was always a smaller part of their fleet) in favor of an all A333 wide body fleet so I doubt they would be interested in the A338.

While the A330neo seems like a logical choice for a smaller A330ceo operator like SN the complication is the airline is owned by the LH group, who has so far eschewed the A330neo in favor of the 787. So it is entirely possibly that the airline ultimately ends up replacing the A330s with 787s. I don’t see that occurring for a while though. Has SN ever actually operated a brand new A330 as the first operator?

LH Group has ordered, plus recently leased, plenty of A350s freeing used A330s for other affiliates.

Maybe they are planning to follow in the footsteps of EI, reshaping their long haul fleet by ordering a batch of A321 LR/XLRs and promote more, or increase frequencies on, long thin routes, particularly to Africa.

jumpjets wrote:

Maybe they are planning to follow in the footsteps of EI, reshaping their long haul fleet by ordering a batch of A321 LR/XLRs and promote more, or increase frequencies on, long thin routes, particularly to Africa.

The big issue with using A321XLRs to Africa is those routes are traditionally very cargo heavy.