Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Pinto
Topic Author
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:30 pm

Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:05 am

While flying through IAD a few weeks ago I had a thought, why doesn't soem airline fly IAD - DCA? While I know nobody would logically fly people from IAD - DCA. However wouldn't it possibly work for connecting passengers, specifically Intl passengers. If UA added a 1x Daily flight that connected to and from the afternoon wave wouldn't that work?

As someone not from the DC area is always seems like a hassle to try and get to DC from IAD and this seems like an interesting thought.
 
drmlnr1
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:16 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:45 am

The only time you will see an IAD-DCA flight is if it’s a diversion. I worked at both airports and because of weather in summer we had dca diversions many times. With the silver line now being constructed that will connect dc and surrounding areas to iad, any normal scheduled flight would run in the red
 
Someone83
Posts: 5491
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:49 am

Didn’t operate this 20 years ago? If I remember correctly I flew a UA 737 IAD-DCA back in July 2000
 
NASBWI
Posts: 992
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:12 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:05 am

The closest city pairing that *was* actually offered throughout the early to mid ‘90s was BWI-IAD, operated by ACA. As short as that trip was, it was probably a bit more necessary than DCA, as DCA had better commuting options to IAD for those looking to catch an international/longer haul flight that DCA was restricted from operating. At that time, WN hadn’t had a presence at BWI, so the route made sense.
 
bohica
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:21 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:58 am

Western Airlines used to fly SLC-IAD-DCA. This was to get around DCA's perimeter rule.

http://www.departedflights.com/WA102785.html
 
OlympicATH
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 8:43 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:58 am

I'm also pretty sure I flew USAir between BWI and DCA in 1994. Is that possible?
 
dcajet
Posts: 5193
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:31 am

OlympicATH wrote:
I'm also pretty sure I flew USAir between BWI and DCA in 1994. Is that possible?


Yeap. Us Air Express with the Dash 8 100. 12-minute flight.
 
SeaDoo
Posts: 347
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:12 am

dcajet wrote:
OlympicATH wrote:
I'm also pretty sure I flew USAir between BWI and DCA in 1994. Is that possible?


Yeap. Us Air Express with the Dash 8 100. 12-minute flight.


For TATL, wouldn't a DCA-PHL-TATL, DCA-JFK-TATL, or DCA-BOS-TATL, work just as well? Same with using ATL, CLT, MIA, FLL to the Caribbean and South America?
 
cedarjet
Posts: 9027
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:19 am

Continental used to fly Houston Hobby to IAH with a mini fleet of DC-9s in a special “Houston Proud Express” livery
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 8851
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:56 am

While the local market prefers DCA overall, and there are some people who fly DCA-ATL/CLT/xxx-yyy, overall IAD isn’t that hard to reach. If you jumped in the car and started driving you would be at your final destination before a hypothetical DCA flight has taken off, once you factor in 2+ hours connection coming off an international flight. Also, DCA would definitely be the first flight delayed or cancelled whenever weather rolls through, so wouldn’t even be particularly reliable.
 
rivervisual
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:49 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:27 am

Would be a horrible use of a slot pair at DCA. A taxi ride between the two airports isn't long enough even during rush hour to justify a flight and with Metro at IAD imminent its even less of a good idea.

The time required to arrive early, clear TSA, etc would be roughly the same and that assumes you live within a few minutes of DCA. Otherwise you would add more time.

Also those old BWI flights to IAD were really to grow the catchment area bc 30 years ago the area around IAD was nowhere as populated as it is now. And travel from IAD to BWI by road is easily an hour even in off-peak hours.
 
WA707atMSP
Posts: 2140
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:48 am

bohica wrote:
Western Airlines used to fly SLC-IAD-DCA. This was to get around DCA's perimeter rule.

http://www.departedflights.com/WA102785.html


American was the first airline to do this, in 1981 / 82. At the time, the perimeter rule allowed flights to MSP, ORD, and STL, but not DFW or IAH. Because AA's main hub was outside the then-1000 mile perimeter at DCA, they were at a competitive disadvantage to NW, UA, and TW, all of whom had their main midwest hubs inside the perimeter.

By the mid 1980s, pressure from Texas' congressional delegation caused the perimeter to be extended from 1,000 miles to 1,250 miles, which allowed nonstops from DCA to DFW and IAH.
 
micstatic
Posts: 845
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:07 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:55 am

When does that train linking dulles to the city open?
 
drmlnr1
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:16 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:04 am

micstatic wrote:
When does that train linking dulles to the city open?

According to transit officials early 2022. So very soon
 
User avatar
CV990A
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 6:04 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:09 am

micstatic wrote:
When does that train linking dulles to the city open?


They're hoping by next spring, but given all the construction issues that project has had, I'm still doubtful. There is also the fact that if taking the Metro between DCA and IAD, it won't be a single-seat trip; you'll have to change trains at the Rosslyn station, which also means going up/down escalators with your luggage in what is frequently a crowded station, especially at rush hour.
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 6084
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:22 am

Braniff II also operated DCA-IAD-DFW for a brief period IIRC. Later used the slots for DCA-MCI.
 
EssentialBusDC
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:06 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:51 am

CV990A wrote:
micstatic wrote:
When does that train linking dulles to the city open?


They're hoping by next spring, but given all the construction issues that project has had, I'm still doubtful. There is also the fact that if taking the Metro between DCA and IAD, it won't be a single-seat trip; you'll have to change trains at the Rosslyn station, which also means going up/down escalators with your luggage in what is frequently a crowded station, especially at rush hour.


Metro to Dulles is not about Dulles at all. It’s just happens to be a stop on an extended spoke.

The cars aren’t set up for pax with luggage and there is no express option to/from downtown. And since Metro is set up the way it is with spokes feeding the center and no outer loop to connect those spokes means it’s going to be used very little by the locals unless you live on the silver line. Someone like me in NW DC can drive to Dulles in 35-45 mins while a Metro trip require 90 minutes minimum and usually closer to 2 hours.
 
saab2000
Posts: 1261
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:19 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:46 pm

I ferried a diverted airplane from IAD to DCA about 15 years ago. Got airborne and was vectored for the River Visual. 10 minutes in the air. Tops.

Similarly, I have also ferried airplanes between PHF and ORF a couple times. Those were longer due to winds and getting vectors but we’re still super short for a jet airplane.
 
blockski
Posts: 814
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:58 pm

saab2000 wrote:
I ferried a diverted airplane from IAD to DCA about 15 years ago. Got airborne and was vectored for the River Visual. 10 minutes in the air. Tops.

Similarly, I have also ferried airplanes between PHF and ORF a couple times. Those were longer due to winds and getting vectors but we’re still super short for a jet airplane.


I always enjoy looking out the window when arriving into DCA from the west and getting the River Visual approach; usually come in directly over IAD and then follow the river in.

For scheduled flights, I can't see the case for using a valuable DCA slot for this. However, I am curious if there are potential applications more in the transit realm with e-VTOL or other concepts, particularly for connecting to international flights at IAD.
 
Mainland
Posts: 287
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:17 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:31 pm

OlympicATH wrote:
I'm also pretty sure I flew USAir between BWI and DCA in 1994. Is that possible?


BWI-DCA on the Dash's kept up pretty regular into the late 90's, I believe. I want to say for a period of time, maybe mid-2000's, it came back as a weird Saturday-only flight, which was probably more of a reposition to get a Friday RON from LGA down to DCA. I remember waiting to board a BWI-PHL flight well after USAirways had drawn down BWI, so the commuter terminal was desolate, and watching just two people hop on that morning's Dash flight to DCA.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2757
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:13 pm

Would be a terrible waste of a slot IMO. IAD really isn't that inconvenient as everyone seems to make it out to be.

There's hardly any traffic on the Dulles Access Road, and one can make it to the terminal building in roughly 30 minutes from Metro Center (25 miles) outside rush-hour, and around 40-45 minutes during rush-hour. That's significantly less than the time it takes to drive from Midtown to JFK-both inside and outside rush hour.

There are relatively convenient transit options to IAD as well. From my house in Dupont Circle (neighborhood about 1 mile NW of the Downtown, it only takes roughly ~70 minutes to reach the airport on transit (I take a bus to the Metro, take the Metro to Rosslyn, then take the Airport Bus from Rosslyn) and only costs me $5 (regular bus and train fare are free for me thanks to my monthly pass). That's the exact same amount of time as it takes someone on transit to reach JFK from Manhattan, yet hardly anyone seems to complain about that.

I also don't understand why people are stating that the Metro to IAD will take forever from Downtown and how "the Metro isn't set up for those with luggage"...what's stopping people from taking the Metro to DCA right now...do trains on the Blue and Yellow Lines serving DCA have secret luggage storage areas I am unaware about? It's currently a 40 minute ride from Metro Center (Downtown DC) to the Wiehle Reston East, the current terminus of the Silver Line, which sits about 5 miles east of the airport. There are 3 stops in between Wiehle and the airport, so I figure it'll take 12-15 minutes of additional travel time to reach the airport. That's still under an hour, and not bad for a one-seat ride from Downtown. I'll gladly take it.

With its spacious terminal spaces (well, for those traveling on carriers other than UA) and the nice Priority Pass lounges, I gladly fly out of IAD over DCA, even though DCA is roughly 25 minutes away from my house on transit.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 601
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:27 pm

US Airways Express flew IAD-Manassas per two timetables in 2001 once a week. Not sure why it was flown.
 
User avatar
macsog6
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:25 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:33 pm

It was a long time ago, but I seem to recall a IAD-DCA flight on US using a Dash 7. It was definitely a Dash 7, but I may have confused the airports.
 
AusTexFlyer
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:10 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:34 pm

cedarjet wrote:
Continental used to fly Houston Hobby to IAH with a mini fleet of DC-9s in a special “Houston Proud Express” livery


They also flew Ellington Field to IAH for a while. Back in the late 70s and early 80s, Metro Airlines flew from Clear Lake City to IAH. Good times.
 
IADCA
Posts: 2469
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:35 pm

Like others have said, it's really not that hard to get from DCA to IAD already. But there's no reason to do so for any practical reason. DCA is a hub for one carrier and is slot-controlled, and IAD is a hub for another. So besides interline connections, there's precious little reason you would be doing this, and that would imply someone double-connecting. Also, once the disembark/embark time on a connecting flight had elapsed, you could have pretty much driven it or (soon) taken the Metro. And given what's already a crowded ramp/runway situation at DCA, this flight would get delayed a lot - as many regional flights there do. At that point it becomes worse than useless.

CV990A wrote:
micstatic wrote:
When does that train linking dulles to the city open?


They're hoping by next spring, but given all the construction issues that project has had, I'm still doubtful. There is also the fact that if taking the Metro between DCA and IAD, it won't be a single-seat trip; you'll have to change trains at the Rosslyn station, which also means going up/down escalators with your luggage in what is frequently a crowded station, especially at rush hour.


It'll be down (or up, if you're going IAD-DCA) a single escalator that's about 20 feet long and is located right next to the train you'd be getting off and right next to the one you're getting on. Getting from the train to the terminal at IAD (or heck, even from the terminal to the train at DCA) would be a much bigger hassle than that would be.
 
Mainland
Posts: 287
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:17 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:48 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
US Airways Express flew IAD-Manassas per two timetables in 2001 once a week. Not sure why it was flown.


Going to bet these were Colgan Air flights with HEF being Colgan's home base at the time.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10436
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:55 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I also don't understand why people are stating that the Metro to IAD will take forever from Downtown and how "the Metro isn't set up for those with luggage"...what's stopping people from taking the Metro to DCA right now...do trains on the Blue and Yellow Lines serving DCA have secret luggage storage areas I am unaware about?


It does matter, at the margin. I'll be carrying a lot less luggage on my 1-night DCA-XXX-DCA trip than if heading to China for 19 days from IAD.

Luggage on airport transit doesn't have to suck: Look at how Hong Kong's Airport Express (pre-Covid) allowed baggage check at the station, rather than having passengers schlep it all aboard the train.

DC has been waiting sixty years for a train to Dulles. That's plenty of time to have planned for a better one.

I'll join in and say flights IAD-DCA, OAK-SFO, Ellington-IAH, etc. are just ridiculous where any airport is close to normal capacity - even ignoring CO2 arguments. Ground transit is seldom THAT BAD.
 
blockski
Posts: 814
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:59 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I also don't understand why people are stating that the Metro to IAD will take forever from Downtown and how "the Metro isn't set up for those with luggage"...what's stopping people from taking the Metro to DCA right now...do trains on the Blue and Yellow Lines serving DCA have secret luggage storage areas I am unaware about?


It does matter, at the margin. I'll be carrying a lot less luggage on my 1-night DCA-XXX-DCA trip than if heading to China for 19 days from IAD.

Luggage on airport transit doesn't have to suck: Look at how Hong Kong's Airport Express (pre-Covid) allowed baggage check at the station, rather than having passengers schlep it all aboard the train.

DC has been waiting sixty years for a train to Dulles. That's plenty of time to have planned for a better one.

I'll join in and say flights IAD-DCA, OAK-SFO, Ellington-IAH, etc. are just ridiculous where any airport is close to normal capacity - even ignoring CO2 arguments. Ground transit is seldom THAT BAD.


The Silver Line is a regular transit line that will also serve the airport. It is not (and was never meant to be) a dedicated airport express train. The airport isn't even the most important destination along the Silver Line.

Anyway, comparing Metro to an airport express train service is a category error.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7614
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:14 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
US Airways Express flew IAD-Manassas per two timetables in 2001 once a week. Not sure why it was flown.


It was probably operated by Colgan, which was headquartered in Manassas. Likely for cycling aircraft in and out of the US* operation for maintenance.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2757
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:25 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I also don't understand why people are stating that the Metro to IAD will take forever from Downtown and how "the Metro isn't set up for those with luggage"...what's stopping people from taking the Metro to DCA right now...do trains on the Blue and Yellow Lines serving DCA have secret luggage storage areas I am unaware about?


It does matter, at the margin. I'll be carrying a lot less luggage on my 1-night DCA-XXX-DCA trip than if heading to China for 19 days from IAD.

Luggage on airport transit doesn't have to suck: Look at how Hong Kong's Airport Express (pre-Covid) allowed baggage check at the station, rather than having passengers schlep it all aboard the train.

DC has been waiting sixty years for a train to Dulles. That's plenty of time to have planned for a better one.

I don't disagree with you, but you aren't looking at it through the lens of the transit perspective in the US. Public transit (even to the airport) in the US is either seen as a commodity of a last resort or as an extension of the public welfare system. No US city currently has a premium, express rail system to the airport as seen in Western Europe or Asia, nor will we ever. Our state of infrastructure and the way public transit is funded generally inhibits such systems. I also doubt that US authorities would ever allow the type of in-town baggage check as in HKG or KUL for security reasons.

I've taken the Metro to DCA when embarking on long trips before, and one time I had a huge hardside suitcase, a large duffel bag, a tote bag, and a backpacking pack...it's certainly doable. Would I prefer an in-town baggage check option? Of course, but that's just not realistic. The Silver Line to Dulles is the best possible option for rail transit to IAD.
 
seat1a
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:52 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:26 pm

Braniff II had flights between IAD/DCA. No jelly-filled omelets on those flights.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7614
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:48 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I also don't understand why people are stating that the Metro to IAD will take forever from Downtown and how "the Metro isn't set up for those with luggage"...what's stopping people from taking the Metro to DCA right now...do trains on the Blue and Yellow Lines serving DCA have secret luggage storage areas I am unaware about? It's currently a 40 minute ride from Metro Center (Downtown DC) to the Wiehle Reston East, the current terminus of the Silver Line, which sits about 5 miles east of the airport. There are 3 stops in between Wiehle and the airport, so I figure it'll take 12-15 minutes of additional travel time to reach the airport. That's still under an hour, and not bad for a one-seat ride from Downtown. I'll gladly take it.


If you're traveling light (i.e. a rollaboard and a shoulder bag) or super-price-sensitive, transit to the airport is a good option. 15-20 minutes on the Metro to/from Downtown D.C. works for most folks if they're within a 5-10 minute walk of a Metro station because it doesn't take much more time than a cab or rideshare (and can take less).

An hour-plus door-to-terminal from Downtown to IAD isn't going to work for most people, particularly the high-value customers UA targets. The Silver Line stop at Dulles will mostly be used by people with jobs at the airport.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:57 pm

drmlnr1 wrote:
micstatic wrote:
When does that train linking dulles to the city open?

According to transit officials early 2022. So very soon


Very soon in WAMTA speak is about 2 years! LOL
 
bpatus297
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:07 pm

ScottB wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I also don't understand why people are stating that the Metro to IAD will take forever from Downtown and how "the Metro isn't set up for those with luggage"...what's stopping people from taking the Metro to DCA right now...do trains on the Blue and Yellow Lines serving DCA have secret luggage storage areas I am unaware about? It's currently a 40 minute ride from Metro Center (Downtown DC) to the Wiehle Reston East, the current terminus of the Silver Line, which sits about 5 miles east of the airport. There are 3 stops in between Wiehle and the airport, so I figure it'll take 12-15 minutes of additional travel time to reach the airport. That's still under an hour, and not bad for a one-seat ride from Downtown. I'll gladly take it.


If you're traveling light (i.e. a rollaboard and a shoulder bag) or super-price-sensitive, transit to the airport is a good option. 15-20 minutes on the Metro to/from Downtown D.C. works for most folks if they're within a 5-10 minute walk of a Metro station because it doesn't take much more time than a cab or rideshare (and can take less).

An hour-plus door-to-terminal from Downtown to IAD isn't going to work for most people, particularly the high-value customers UA targets. The Silver Line stop at Dulles will mostly be used by people with jobs at the airport.


There is a toll free express lane on the Dulles Toll Road from 495. Once the Silver Line Phase 2 is opened, IAD will be very easy to get to. People just like to find something to complain about. Would a Silver Line express from Rosslyn be nice, sure would, but that doesn't mean what is currently available is horrible. I can't believe someone would complain that they have to change lines when using a large cities mass transit. That is par for the course for that type of transit. Pretty sure they would complain if an IAD sized airport was in their backyard.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2757
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:23 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I also don't understand why people are stating that the Metro to IAD will take forever from Downtown and how "the Metro isn't set up for those with luggage"...what's stopping people from taking the Metro to DCA right now...do trains on the Blue and Yellow Lines serving DCA have secret luggage storage areas I am unaware about? It's currently a 40 minute ride from Metro Center (Downtown DC) to the Wiehle Reston East, the current terminus of the Silver Line, which sits about 5 miles east of the airport. There are 3 stops in between Wiehle and the airport, so I figure it'll take 12-15 minutes of additional travel time to reach the airport. That's still under an hour, and not bad for a one-seat ride from Downtown. I'll gladly take it.


If you're traveling light (i.e. a rollaboard and a shoulder bag) or super-price-sensitive, transit to the airport is a good option. 15-20 minutes on the Metro to/from Downtown D.C. works for most folks if they're within a 5-10 minute walk of a Metro station because it doesn't take much more time than a cab or rideshare (and can take less).

An hour-plus door-to-terminal from Downtown to IAD isn't going to work for most people, particularly the high-value customers UA targets. The Silver Line stop at Dulles will mostly be used by people with jobs at the airport.


There is a toll free express lane on the Dulles Toll Road from 495. Once the Silver Line Phase 2 is opened, IAD will be very easy to get to. People just like to find something to complain about. Would a Silver Line express from Rosslyn be nice, sure would, but that doesn't mean what is currently available is horrible. I can't believe someone would complain that they have to change lines when using a large cities mass transit. That is par for the course for that type of transit. Pretty sure they would complain if an IAD sized airport was in their backyard.

Exactly...I just find it bizarre that everyone in DC loves to complain left and right about Dulles and having to go out there, but I rarely hear people in NYC complain about going to EWR or JFK, despite that travel time there is essentially no difference.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7614
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:25 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
Would a Silver Line express from Rosslyn be nice, sure would, but that doesn't mean what is currently available is horrible. I can't believe someone would complain that they have to change lines when using a large cities mass transit. That is par for the course for that type of transit. Pretty sure they would complain if an IAD sized airport was in their backyard.


They aren't going to complain about changing lines. They're just not going to use it. Changing lines just makes it even worse. ~18 stops to downtown is simply interminable, especially if your Uber could be zipping along the Dulles Access Road instead. Oh, and don't forget that the Silver Line won't even stop at the terminal at Dulles.

USAirALB wrote:
Exactly...I just find it bizarre that everyone in DC loves to complain left and right about Dulles and having to go out there, but I rarely hear people in NYC complain about going to EWR or JFK, despite that travel time there is essentially no difference.


You must not know anyone in NYC (or at least Manhattan). If they can go non-stop from LGA, that's what they do.
Last edited by ScottB on Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
F27500
Posts: 1058
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:52 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:26 pm

dcajet wrote:
OlympicATH wrote:
I'm also pretty sure I flew USAir between BWI and DCA in 1994. Is that possible?


Yeap. Us Air Express with the Dash 8 100. 12-minute flight.


Also had some F27s on that route too during that time frame (Allegheny operated) ...it was a very cool ride!
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2757
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:22 pm

ScottB wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
Would a Silver Line express from Rosslyn be nice, sure would, but that doesn't mean what is currently available is horrible. I can't believe someone would complain that they have to change lines when using a large cities mass transit. That is par for the course for that type of transit. Pretty sure they would complain if an IAD sized airport was in their backyard.


They aren't going to complain about changing lines. They're just not going to use it. Changing lines just makes it even worse. ~18 stops to downtown is simply interminable, especially if your Uber could be zipping along the Dulles Access Road instead. Oh, and don't forget that the Silver Line won't even stop at the terminal at Dulles.

USAirALB wrote:
Exactly...I just find it bizarre that everyone in DC loves to complain left and right about Dulles and having to go out there, but I rarely hear people in NYC complain about going to EWR or JFK, despite that travel time there is essentially no difference.


You must not know anyone in NYC (or at least Manhattan). If they can go non-stop from LGA, that's what they do.


Who isn't going to use it? Have you ever rode the 5A bus from L'Enfant Plaza or Rosslyn to IAD at peak periods? It's packed with riders (from every demographic), as is the Silver Line Express bus that connects with the Metro at Wiehle. I just pulled out my phone and the Uber price from my office to Dulles is $58...no way am I paying that if I have a transit option. That's actually relatively inexpensive, too. Last month I landed at IAD from SFO at 11PM and missed the last bus into town, and my Uber was $86. I would have gladly hopped on the Metro home.

And I know plenty of people in Manhattan...I myself lived in Lower East Side while doing a fellowship at NYU. You can't fly nonstop to the West Coast from LGA, but no one seems to mind going to Kennedy.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:00 pm

ScottB wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
Would a Silver Line express from Rosslyn be nice, sure would, but that doesn't mean what is currently available is horrible. I can't believe someone would complain that they have to change lines when using a large cities mass transit. That is par for the course for that type of transit. Pretty sure they would complain if an IAD sized airport was in their backyard.


They aren't going to complain about changing lines. They're just not going to use it. Changing lines just makes it even worse. ~18 stops to downtown is simply interminable, especially if your Uber could be zipping along the Dulles Access Road instead. Oh, and don't forget that the Silver Line won't even stop at the terminal at Dulles.

USAirALB wrote:
Exactly...I just find it bizarre that everyone in DC loves to complain left and right about Dulles and having to go out there, but I rarely hear people in NYC complain about going to EWR or JFK, despite that travel time there is essentially no difference.


You must not know anyone in NYC (or at least Manhattan). If they can go non-stop from LGA, that's what they do.



I ride the Silver from Wiehle-Reston to Farragut West and its about 35 minutes on a normal day. It will only be about another 10 minutes to get to Dulles when its open, 6 bucks maximum fare. Of course it will be longer if you are coming from Largo or New Carrollton, but that is going to suck regardless of what mode of transportation you take.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1047
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:04 pm

I wonder if I should start a topic and ask why are there no flights between LGA and JFK where tickets actually require you to transfer between the two airports. Seems logical to have a flight between LGA and JFK.
Back on topic the silver line is going to open in 2022 and be connected to Dulles. Or someone could have a bus service between the two airports. Or helicopter "flight" service for a small cost of $350 per passenger.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7614
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:10 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Who isn't going to use it? Have you ever rode the 5A bus from L'Enfant Plaza or Rosslyn to IAD at peak periods? It's packed with riders (from every demographic), as is the Silver Line Express bus that connects with the Metro at Wiehle. I just pulled out my phone and the Uber price from my office to Dulles is $58...no way am I paying that if I have a transit option. That's actually relatively inexpensive, too. Last month I landed at IAD from SFO at 11PM and missed the last bus into town, and my Uber was $86. I would have gladly hopped on the Metro home.


Funny thing is the Silver Line ends up being significantly worse than the 5A bus if you're going from Downtown to IAD. Travel time will be longer with IAD being 21 stops away from L'Enfant Plaza and the Dulles Metro station being ~1/4 from the terminal (while the 5A stops at the terminal).

You are not the customer UA targets at IAD. Their target market is people who will expense the ride to/from the airport or the cost of parking in one of the garages or a rental car while in the D.C. area. People who gripe about a $50 cab/Uber ride to the airport aren't going to drop $50 for a seat assignment or $100 for a Y+ upgrade. You are price-sensitive, so yes, you will use the Silver Line or the 5A. You see "every demographic" on the bus because you're seeing other people with money who are price-sensitive as well as people commuting to their jobs on the bus.

I take transit to/from the airport in BOS. I can see the airport from my desk but it still takes 30 minutes from desk to terminal because the transit options are stupid (and I can be in a station on the subway line [Blue] to the airport in < 5 minutes). A cab or Uber might take 10 minutes in Boston traffic but I'm cheap and the ride to the airport is free with my pass. Who do I see on the train/shuttle to the terminal? Students, commuters, cheapskates like me.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2757
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:18 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
I wonder if I should start a topic and ask why are there no flights between LGA and JFK where tickets actually require you to transfer between the two airports. Seems logical to have a flight between LGA and JFK.
Back on topic the silver line is going to open in 2022 and be connected to Dulles. Or someone could have a bus service between the two airports. Or helicopter "flight" service for a small cost of $350 per passenger.

I don't know if such a system was ever in place in the US, but before post-9/11 cost-cutting and when BA used to have a more robust long-haul network ex LGW (Bermuda II days, and I think most Latin America and sub-Saharan Africa destinations operated from LGW), they operated a transfer service between LHR and LGW. Checked baggage used to be "through-checked" (no idea how that worked), and passengers with an onward connection at the other LON airport would stop at the transit counter inside the Flight Connections Centre and pick up a voucher to travel on the bus between LHR/LGW free of charge.

ScottB wrote:
People who gripe about a $50 cab/Uber ride to the airport aren't going to drop $50 for a seat assignment or $100 for a Y+ upgrade. You are price-sensitive, so yes, you will use the Silver Line or the 5A. You see "every demographic" on the bus because you're seeing other people with money who are price-sensitive as well as people commuting to their jobs on the bus.

Not necessarily...I have no problem paying for an upgrade or for a seat assignment. I could easily afford to Uber to the airport...I choose not to, simply because I worry about the pollution/ecological impact of ride share services (studies have found that ride share services pollute more than driving), and my tax dollars are already paying for transit, so why not take advantage of it. I like not having to "hail the ride" and worry if the driver is running late or if we get stuck in sudden traffic. I find it much more relaxing to walk to the station and hop on the train...I don't have to do anything, I just get on and it goes.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7614
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:48 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I could easily afford to Uber to the airport...I choose not to, simply because I worry about the pollution/ecological impact of ride share services (studies have found that ride share services pollute more than driving), and my tax dollars are already paying for transit, so why not take advantage of it. I like not having to "hail the ride" and worry if the driver is running late or if we get stuck in sudden traffic. I find it much more relaxing to walk to the station and hop on the train...I don't have to do anything, I just get on and it goes.


That is not what you said. You said:

USAirALB wrote:
I just pulled out my phone and the Uber price from my office to Dulles is $58...no way am I paying that if I have a transit option. That's actually relatively inexpensive, too. Last month I landed at IAD from SFO at 11PM and missed the last bus into town, and my Uber was $86.


Two statements about price, zero about ecological impact or pollution. "No way am I paying that" followed by an observation that it's "relatively inexpensive."

Walking to the station and hopping on the train isn't always relaxing. Certainly not if you're dragging more than a rollaboard or if you get to the station and the train is delayed. It's not if you have to change lines. It's not if you have to stand for half the trip because all the seats were full when you boarded.
 
blockski
Posts: 814
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:07 pm

ScottB wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Who isn't going to use it? Have you ever rode the 5A bus from L'Enfant Plaza or Rosslyn to IAD at peak periods? It's packed with riders (from every demographic), as is the Silver Line Express bus that connects with the Metro at Wiehle. I just pulled out my phone and the Uber price from my office to Dulles is $58...no way am I paying that if I have a transit option. That's actually relatively inexpensive, too. Last month I landed at IAD from SFO at 11PM and missed the last bus into town, and my Uber was $86. I would have gladly hopped on the Metro home.


Funny thing is the Silver Line ends up being significantly worse than the 5A bus if you're going from Downtown to IAD. Travel time will be longer with IAD being 21 stops away from L'Enfant Plaza and the Dulles Metro station being ~1/4 from the terminal (while the 5A stops at the terminal).


Travel time on the Silver Line will not be longer than the 5A bus from Downtown DC.

the EIS has the travel time from Rosslyn to Dulles at 43 minutes. From Metro Center to Dulles is 52 minutes. That will be about the same travel time as the 5A bus from Rosslyn and much faster than the 5A from L'Enfant Plaza. Not to mention the improvement in frequency - the 5A currently has one bus (just one) per hour. There will be Silver Line trains every 6-8 minutes.

Plus, WMATA has been quite clear - the 5A bus is going to go away as soon as the Silver Line opens.

And let's please stop with the 'at the terminal' nonsense. You'll have to walk an extra 750 feet, and 450 of those feet will be on a moving walkway.
 
cbchicago
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:26 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:28 pm

What about TPA-MCO another big hole
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2757
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:38 pm

ScottB wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I could easily afford to Uber to the airport...I choose not to, simply because I worry about the pollution/ecological impact of ride share services (studies have found that ride share services pollute more than driving), and my tax dollars are already paying for transit, so why not take advantage of it. I like not having to "hail the ride" and worry if the driver is running late or if we get stuck in sudden traffic. I find it much more relaxing to walk to the station and hop on the train...I don't have to do anything, I just get on and it goes.


That is not what you said. You said:

USAirALB wrote:
I just pulled out my phone and the Uber price from my office to Dulles is $58...no way am I paying that if I have a transit option. That's actually relatively inexpensive, too. Last month I landed at IAD from SFO at 11PM and missed the last bus into town, and my Uber was $86.


Two statements about price, zero about ecological impact or pollution. "No way am I paying that" followed by an observation that it's "relatively inexpensive."

Walking to the station and hopping on the train isn't always relaxing. Certainly not if you're dragging more than a rollaboard or if you get to the station and the train is delayed. It's not if you have to change lines. It's not if you have to stand for half the trip because all the seats were full when you boarded.

Exactly...no way I am paying that if there is a transit option...I never stated that not wanting to Uber to Dulles was on the basis of cost. The point of bringing up the ecological impacts was a rebuttal to your statement that I was price sensitive nor was I part of UA's target market in terms of upgrades, etc.

No one is forcing you to take the train to Dulles. I don't have a car with me in DC, and I rely solely on the Metro. Pre-COVID I was riding the train at least 4 times each day...sometime even more. And yes, I regularly transfer, both between bus and rail, and between different rail lines, and yes I find it relaxing. It beats the alternative of having to drive everywhere, and I genuinely enjoy the people watching that comes along with it. As I have said in another post above, I have rode the train with multiple pieces of luggage without a problem, nor do I mind standing.

blockski wrote:
And let's please stop with the 'at the terminal' nonsense. You'll have to walk an extra 750 feet, and 450 of those feet will be on a moving walkway.

Indeed. Frankly it isn't that great of a distance and I would welcome the walk before/after a flight IMO.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7614
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:50 pm

blockski wrote:
Travel time on the Silver Line will not be longer than the 5A bus from Downtown DC.

the EIS has the travel time from Rosslyn to Dulles at 43 minutes. From Metro Center to Dulles is 52 minutes. That will be about the same travel time as the 5A bus from Rosslyn and much faster than the 5A from L'Enfant Plaza. Not to mention the improvement in frequency - the 5A currently has one bus (just one) per hour. There will be Silver Line trains every 6-8 minutes.


Cool. The current 5A schedule gives a travel time between Rosslyn and Dulles between 33 and 37 minutes. Checking math... nope, 43 minutes is not faster than 37 minutes. 5A goes between L'Enfant Plaza (further than Metro Center) and Dulles in 41 to 53 minutes -- on average, the Silver Line will still be slower IF they even manage to meet the travel time in the EIS.

Frequency is on WMATA. The frequency of the 5A sucks because they choose for it to suck -- although, FWIW, the Silver Line is only operating every 30-40 minutes right now. You might get every 6-8 minutes at rush hour, but the rest of the day it will probably be every 15-20 minutes.

blockski wrote:
And let's please stop with the 'at the terminal' nonsense. You'll have to walk an extra 750 feet, and 450 of those feet will be on a moving walkway.


It's not nonsense. Putting the station in a crappy location is a real reason why people will avoid using the Silver Line to Dulles. I get that it was done to save money, but it will cause some passengers to avoid using transit. People with low-wage jobs at the airport will put up with it because they can't afford better options.
 
eal
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:51 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:37 am

My friend was at DCA the other day on his way to MDW and a WN flight to BWI boarding, he asked me about it and I told him o figured it was a repositioning flight. Does anyone know if this was a one off or a regular thing?

It was on October 14th
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15477
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:19 am

ScottB wrote:
It's not nonsense. Putting the station in a crappy location is a real reason why people will avoid using the Silver Line to Dulles. I get that it was done to save money, but it will cause some passengers to avoid using transit. People with low-wage jobs at the airport will put up with it because they can't afford better options.


You seem to be conflating two things: a poor experience decreasing demand and a poor experience leading to only people with low-wage jobs using the service. The two aren’t the same. Montreal is a good example of a city (like D.C.) with a strong transit culture but poor airport transit. I use the 747 bus when I go to Montreal and will tell you that, by far, the most common bag I see on that bus is a 22-inch roller bag. I don’t know too many “people with low-wage jobs at the airport” who go to work with one of those.
 
STLflyer
Posts: 300
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:08 am

Re: Flights between IAD and DCA

Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:27 am

Why would anyone fly DCA-IAD even for a connection? Every connection is added risk - chance of a delay, chance of a missed connection, chance of a lost bag, etc.

eal wrote:
My friend was at DCA the other day on his way to MDW and a WN flight to BWI boarding, he asked me about it and I told him o figured it was a repositioning flight. Does anyone know if this was a one off or a regular thing?

It was on October 14th


Had to have been repositioning. WN doesn't operate DCA-BWI. If it was actually boarding passengers, it must've been a diversion into DCA and they were on the ground long enough to park at a gate and let people into the terminals.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos