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JohanTally
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: AAnother Meltdown

Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:31 pm

BB78710 wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
Looks like AA might have been experiencing more than just weather related staffing issues last weekend. AA is instituting significant incentives for FAs during the holidays to have perfect attendance.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/11/05/ame ... tions.html



By penalizing people who are actually sick. Imagine you're an FA and you've had perfect attendance until December 31 but then you are actually sick with either the flu or COIVID will that FA do the responsible thing and call in sick and end the possibility of them getting 300% of their pay or will that FA come to work and power through the next 3 days until the end of January 2nd just for the 300% but as a result risk getting others sick.

Also if American is going to offer their flight attendants a 300% incentive what about their remaining frontline employees from pilots to dispatchers even ramp agents all of whom are a necessary piece of AA's operation and would want a 300% incentive as well.

Definitely a slippery slope during a global pandemic to incentivize people to work while sick.
 
seatback
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:00 am

Re: AAnother Meltdown

Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:43 pm

With UA's recent cut backs in regional markets, are we going to see AA do something similar, or will we see them take advantage of the situation (i.e. add: ORD-ILM)?
 
NLINK
Posts: 426
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:20 pm

Re: AAnother Meltdown

Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:41 pm

American has 59 cancelled flights today and delayed 290 so far. Still have a ways to go.
 
jplatts
Posts: 5308
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: AAnother Meltdown

Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:19 pm

seatback wrote:
With UA's recent cut backs in regional markets, are we going to see AA do something similar, or will we see them take advantage of the situation (i.e. add: ORD-ILM)?


UA will still continue to offer connections onto KG flights from ATY and vice versa after it pulls out of ATY.

AA, DL, and G4 will continue to serve EVV after UA pulls out of EVV.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3543
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AAnother Meltdown

Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:43 am

seatback wrote:
With UA's recent cut backs in regional markets, are we going to see AA do something similar, or will we see them take advantage of the situation (i.e. add: ORD-ILM)?


They already fly ORD-ILM...
 
kalvado
Posts: 3593
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: AAnother Meltdown

Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:15 pm

FSDan wrote:
seatback wrote:
With UA's recent cut backs in regional markets, are we going to see AA do something similar, or will we see them take advantage of the situation (i.e. add: ORD-ILM)?


They already fly ORD-ILM...

Maybe it was "fly it without cancelations"?
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10472
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: AAnother Meltdown

Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:34 pm

seatback wrote:
With UA's recent cut backs in regional markets, are we going to see AA do something similar, or will we see them take advantage of the situation (i.e. add: ORD-ILM)?


The answer depends on how AA sees (and weights) several constraints:

- the need for revenue (it's already disclosed it expects to lose pretty good money 4Q21)

- higher expected yields and load factors from UA's exit from a few regional airports

- ability to crew (and fly reliably)

Do you think AA has the capacity to add more RJ services, or was Eagle as much impaired as mainline in these last few incidents?
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2900
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AAnother Meltdown

Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:21 am

AA adding holiday incentive for ground workers now also.

Image
 
JohanTally
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: AAnother Meltdown

Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:50 pm

AA pilots Union is refusing the incentive holiday pay and asking to be a part of building the flight schedule.

https://onemileatatime.com/news/america ... liday-pay/
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4823
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: AAnother Meltdown

Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:34 pm

Good. Attendance bonuses punish those with pre-existing conditions and encourages people to report to work sick. They should quite frankly be illegal.
 
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jetblastdubai
Posts: 2086
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

Re: AAnother Meltdown

Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:47 pm

    jetmatt777 wrote:
    Good. Attendance bonuses punish those with pre-existing conditions and encourages people to report to work sick. They should quite frankly be illegal.


    Paid sick leave also encourages people to call in sick when they are not sick.
     
    EBiafore99
    Posts: 164
    Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:03 pm

    Re: AAnother Meltdown

    Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:49 pm

    JohanTally wrote:
    AA pilots Union is refusing the incentive holiday pay and asking to be a part of building the flight schedule.

    https://onemileatatime.com/news/america ... liday-pay/


    I think the pilots are correct. AA needs to stop overscheduling flights "hoping" everything works and starts creating realistic schedules. We're coming into the holidays when a lot of people are travelling to see family, etc., maybe for the first holiday in a year or two because of COVID. If AA has an operational meltdown around one or both the holidays, I will feel for all of the frontline employees who will have to clean up the mess.
     
    Boof02671
    Posts: 2900
    Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

    Re: AAnother Meltdown

    Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:54 pm

    jetmatt777 wrote:
    Good. Attendance bonuses punish those with pre-existing conditions and encourages people to report to work sick. They should quite frankly be illegal.

    No one is being punished.
     
    jetmatt777
    Posts: 4823
    Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

    Re: AAnother Meltdown

    Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:57 pm

    jetblastdubai wrote:
      jetmatt777 wrote:
      Good. Attendance bonuses punish those with pre-existing conditions and encourages people to report to work sick. They should quite frankly be illegal.


      Paid sick leave also encourages people to call in sick when they are not sick.


      Paid sick leave is not unlimited. When you are out you are out, and that is a risk some people choose to take; but it’s really none of the company’s business why an employee is using sick time unless there is a verifiable pattern of abuse. Encouraging people to come to work sick is a much greater hazard than paying people to stay home when they are sick; even if there is a small level of abuse in the latter.
       
      jetmatt777
      Posts: 4823
      Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

      Re: AAnother Meltdown

      Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:58 pm

      Boof02671 wrote:
      jetmatt777 wrote:
      Good. Attendance bonuses punish those with pre-existing conditions and encourages people to report to work sick. They should quite frankly be illegal.

      No one is being punished.


      Employee A has a severe cold and comes to work because he really needs the extra $1000, employee B contracts the cold at work and calls out sick. Employee A just screwed employee B out of a bonus. Who was punished and who was rewarded?
       
      Boof02671
      Posts: 2900
      Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

      Re: AAnother Meltdown

      Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:07 pm

      jetmatt777 wrote:
      Boof02671 wrote:
      jetmatt777 wrote:
      Good. Attendance bonuses punish those with pre-existing conditions and encourages people to report to work sick. They should quite frankly be illegal.

      No one is being punished.


      Employee A has a severe cold and comes to work because he really needs the extra $1000, employee B contracts the cold at work and calls out sick. Employee A just screwed employee B out of a bonus. Who was punished and who was rewarded?

      Punishment means discipline. Not one is disciplined. It’s an incentive program.
       
      WA707atMSP
      Posts: 2142
      Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

      Re: AAnother Meltdown

      Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:08 pm

      EBiafore99 wrote:
      JohanTally wrote:
      AA pilots Union is refusing the incentive holiday pay and asking to be a part of building the flight schedule.

      https://onemileatatime.com/news/america ... liday-pay/


      I think the pilots are correct. AA needs to stop overscheduling flights "hoping" everything works and starts creating realistic schedules. We're coming into the holidays when a lot of people are travelling to see family, etc., maybe for the first holiday in a year or two because of COVID. If AA has an operational meltdown around one or both the holidays, I will feel for all of the frontline employees who will have to clean up the mess.


      Well said.

      Trying to overschedule an airline is like adopting a puppy when you have brand new furniture. Things might go okay, but realistically, an "accident" that's aggravating, disgusting, and very expensive to clean up is almost inevitable.
       
      stlAV8R
      Posts: 161
      Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:23 pm

      Re: AAnother Meltdown

      Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:20 pm

      JohanTally wrote:
      AA pilots Union is refusing the incentive holiday pay and asking to be a part of building the flight schedule.

      https://onemileatatime.com/news/america ... liday-pay/

      Do you mean the holiday flight schedule?
       
      Aliqiout
      Posts: 586
      Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

      Re: AAnother Meltdown

      Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:56 pm

      jetblastdubai wrote:
        jetmatt777 wrote:
        Good. Attendance bonuses punish those with pre-existing conditions and encourages people to report to work sick. They should quite frankly be illegal.


        Paid sick leave also encourages people to call in sick when they are not sick.

        I am sure there are some fake sick days, but that's better than no paid sick leave, which is an incentive to come to work sick, right?
         
        slcdeltarumd11
        Posts: 5275
        Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

        Re: AAnother Meltdown

        Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:09 pm

        EBiafore99 wrote:
        JohanTally wrote:
        AA pilots Union is refusing the incentive holiday pay and asking to be a part of building the flight schedule.

        https://onemileatatime.com/news/america ... liday-pay/


        I think the pilots are correct. AA needs to stop overscheduling flights "hoping" everything works and starts creating realistic schedules. We're coming into the holidays when a lot of people are travelling to see family, etc., maybe for the first holiday in a year or two because of COVID. If AA has an operational meltdown around one or both the holidays, I will feel for all of the frontline employees who will have to clean up the mess.


        AA corporate has shown they incapable of building a realistic schedule. It is time for the pilots union to step in and make AA correct its holiday timetable. Its alot easier to move people now to flights with seats and cancel more now then day of.
         
        stlAV8R
        Posts: 161
        Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:23 pm

        Re: AAnother Meltdown

        Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:12 pm

        slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
        EBiafore99 wrote:
        JohanTally wrote:
        AA pilots Union is refusing the incentive holiday pay and asking to be a part of building the flight schedule.

        https://onemileatatime.com/news/america ... liday-pay/


        I think the pilots are correct. AA needs to stop overscheduling flights "hoping" everything works and starts creating realistic schedules. We're coming into the holidays when a lot of people are travelling to see family, etc., maybe for the first holiday in a year or two because of COVID. If AA has an operational meltdown around one or both the holidays, I will feel for all of the frontline employees who will have to clean up the mess.


        AA corporate has shown they incapable of building a realistic schedule. It is time for the pilots union to step in and make AA correct its holiday timetable. Its alot easier to move people now to flights with seats and cancel more now then day of.

        Is it even possible or realistic at this point? I'm sure a lot of flights are pretty full by now for Thanksgiving at least. How can they possibly fix this without mass chaos to people's itineraries?
         
        11C
        Posts: 346
        Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

        Re: AAnother Meltdown

        Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:19 pm

        [threeid][/threeid]
        jetblastdubai wrote:
          jetmatt777 wrote:
          Good. Attendance bonuses punish those with pre-existing conditions and encourages people to report to work sick. They should quite frankly be illegal.


          Paid sick leave also encourages people to call in sick when they are not sick.


          That all depends on the policies regarding your sick time. I don’t get sick often, very rarely ever call in sick, and generally save my sick time to supplement my vacation pto. So it doesn’t encourage me to call in sick.
           
          slcdeltarumd11
          Posts: 5275
          Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:19 pm

          stlAV8R wrote:
          slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
          EBiafore99 wrote:

          I think the pilots are correct. AA needs to stop overscheduling flights "hoping" everything works and starts creating realistic schedules. We're coming into the holidays when a lot of people are travelling to see family, etc., maybe for the first holiday in a year or two because of COVID. If AA has an operational meltdown around one or both the holidays, I will feel for all of the frontline employees who will have to clean up the mess.


          AA corporate has shown they incapable of building a realistic schedule. It is time for the pilots union to step in and make AA correct its holiday timetable. Its alot easier to move people now to flights with seats and cancel more now then day of.

          Is it even possible or realistic at this point? I'm sure a lot of flights are pretty full by now for Thanksgiving at least. How can they possibly fix this without mass chaos to people's itineraries?


          Theres seats out there right now. Lots of people wait.
          It's much easier to do it now then day of, no matter what. If they continue to sell more seats they will be even worse off and have even more people to reschedule and fit on other flights if they delay it. Any scenario its better to do it now then day of when they cant again. That creates gridblocks and takes days to come out of that tail spin right now
           
          9w748capt
          Posts: 1863
          Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:36 pm

          MIflyer12 wrote:
          seatback wrote:
          With UA's recent cut backs in regional markets, are we going to see AA do something similar, or will we see them take advantage of the situation (i.e. add: ORD-ILM)?


          The answer depends on how AA sees (and weights) several constraints:

          - the need for revenue (it's already disclosed it expects to lose pretty good money 4Q21)

          - higher expected yields and load factors from UA's exit from a few regional airports

          - ability to crew (and fly reliably)

          Do you think AA has the capacity to add more RJ services, or was Eagle as much impaired as mainline in these last few incidents?


          Probably the wrong thread but I'm also curious how AA responds. For example my hometown AZO - I was this close to status matching to UA but with them pulling out of AZO completely, why would I switch. I'm also curious what AA's thinking is with the 50 seaters without a real replacement on the horizon.
           
          JohanTally
          Posts: 532
          Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:00 pm

          stlAV8R wrote:
          JohanTally wrote:
          AA pilots Union is refusing the incentive holiday pay and asking to be a part of building the flight schedule.

          https://onemileatatime.com/news/america ... liday-pay/

          Do you mean the holiday flight schedule?

          I interpret it as the Pilots wanting to have a say in the schedule throughout the entire year not just holidays. Flight crews want to have input on schedules that are largely driven by software that lack the human variables that can be more unpredictable.
           
          User avatar
          usdcaguy
          Posts: 1687
          Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:06 pm

          I frankly don't understand why a carrier the size of AA continues to schedule so heavily over DFW when they could beef up ORD or CLT and spread out their operational risk, though connections over ORD are no longer what they were. While they expanded greatly out of CLT after the merger with US, AA continues to taint the rest of their system with excessive use of DFW as a hub. It's tempting for AA to route a lot of flights over DFW as more sections can be flown through there given its central location and then back to other hubs. I would argue that IAH/HOU are better operational hubs for both UA and WN, as Houston simply does not have the extreme wind and thunderstorms that DFW gets (tropical storms are the exception). That said, AA has what it has and will continue to have operational difficulties out of DFW for years to come given excessive weather and ATC delays from that station.
           
          stlAV8R
          Posts: 161
          Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:23 pm

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:43 pm

          JohanTally wrote:
          stlAV8R wrote:
          JohanTally wrote:
          AA pilots Union is refusing the incentive holiday pay and asking to be a part of building the flight schedule.

          https://onemileatatime.com/news/america ... liday-pay/

          Do you mean the holiday flight schedule?

          I interpret it as the Pilots wanting to have a say in the schedule throughout the entire year not just holidays. Flight crews want to have input on schedules that are largely driven by software that lack the human variables that can be more unpredictable.

          Gotcha. I personally believe that would be a mistake on management's part to allow pilots to have a say in anything other than flying the plane. The pilots are better off fighting for better quality of life and job protection. Adding any unqualified group to network planning would be a total disaster.
           
          JohanTally
          Posts: 532
          Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:14 pm

          stlAV8R wrote:
          JohanTally wrote:
          stlAV8R wrote:
          Do you mean the holiday flight schedule?

          I interpret it as the Pilots wanting to have a say in the schedule throughout the entire year not just holidays. Flight crews want to have input on schedules that are largely driven by software that lack the human variables that can be more unpredictable.

          Gotcha. I personally believe that would be a mistake on management's part to allow pilots to have a say in anything other than flying the plane. The pilots are better off fighting for better quality of life and job protection. Adding any unqualified group to network planning would be a total disaster.

          Flight crews are having issues with accommodations when arriving at airports for their required rest periods. To the best of my knowledge it's still an ongoing issue that could be remediated with AA pilots providing input during flight schedule creation.

          https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/07/28/ame ... laint.html
           
          Vicenza
          Posts: 453
          Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:21 pm

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:26 pm

          JohanTally wrote:
          stlAV8R wrote:
          JohanTally wrote:
          I interpret it as the Pilots wanting to have a say in the schedule throughout the entire year not just holidays. Flight crews want to have input on schedules that are largely driven by software that lack the human variables that can be more unpredictable.

          Gotcha. I personally believe that would be a mistake on management's part to allow pilots to have a say in anything other than flying the plane. The pilots are better off fighting for better quality of life and job protection. Adding any unqualified group to network planning would be a total disaster.


          Flight crews are having issues with accommodations when arriving at airports for their required rest periods. To the best of my knowledge it's still an ongoing issue that could be remediated with AA pilots providing input during flight schedule creation.


          How would input by pilots 'rectify' issues with accommodation? I would completely agree that schedules have nothing whatsoever to do with pilots......their job is to fly aircraft, nothing else.
           
          JohanTally
          Posts: 532
          Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:48 pm

          Vicenza wrote:
          JohanTally wrote:
          stlAV8R wrote:
          Gotcha. I personally believe that would be a mistake on management's part to allow pilots to have a say in anything other than flying the plane. The pilots are better off fighting for better quality of life and job protection. Adding any unqualified group to network planning would be a total disaster.


          Flight crews are having issues with accommodations when arriving at airports for their required rest periods. To the best of my knowledge it's still an ongoing issue that could be remediated with AA pilots providing input during flight schedule creation.


          How would input by pilots 'rectify' issues with accommodation? I would completely agree that schedules have nothing whatsoever to do with pilots......their job is to fly aircraft, nothing else.

          If certain trips routinely end in a city where the accommodations are not always available the flight crews should have some say in that.
           
          MIflyer12
          Posts: 10472
          Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:54 pm

          usdcaguy wrote:
          I frankly don't understand why a carrier the size of AA continues to schedule so heavily over DFW when they could beef up ORD or CLT and spread out their operational risk, though connections over ORD are no longer what they were. While they expanded greatly out of CLT after the merger with US, AA continues to taint the rest of their system with excessive use of DFW as a hub. It's tempting for AA to route a lot of flights over DFW as more sections can be flown through there given its central location and then back to other hubs.


          In part, you answer your own question.

          The other piece is hub efficiency. A super hub sustains more destinations, more connectivity, and higher gauge (lower CASM) than multiple equally-sized hubs. AA knows this. UA knows this (see DEN); DL knows this (see ATL).

          I'd love to see some FAA or NWS data that show IAH is meaninfully superior in aviation weather to DFW. Color me very skeptical.
           
          Boof02671
          Posts: 2900
          Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:55 pm

          Vicenza wrote:
          JohanTally wrote:
          stlAV8R wrote:
          Gotcha. I personally believe that would be a mistake on management's part to allow pilots to have a say in anything other than flying the plane. The pilots are better off fighting for better quality of life and job protection. Adding any unqualified group to network planning would be a total disaster.


          Flight crews are having issues with accommodations when arriving at airports for their required rest periods. To the best of my knowledge it's still an ongoing issue that could be remediated with AA pilots providing input during flight schedule creation.


          How would input by pilots 'rectify' issues with accommodation? I would completely agree that schedules have nothing whatsoever to do with pilots......their job is to fly aircraft, nothing else.

          They have a contract and AA is not in compliance with.

          And the APA (Pilot’s Union) has a Hotel Committee that AA is suppose to work with and the committee has to approve the Hotels that they stay in.

          So “Shut up and fly” doesn’t apply nor work.
           
          stlAV8R
          Posts: 161
          Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:23 pm

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:06 am

          JohanTally wrote:
          Vicenza wrote:
          JohanTally wrote:

          Flight crews are having issues with accommodations when arriving at airports for their required rest periods. To the best of my knowledge it's still an ongoing issue that could be remediated with AA pilots providing input during flight schedule creation.


          How would input by pilots 'rectify' issues with accommodation? I would completely agree that schedules have nothing whatsoever to do with pilots......their job is to fly aircraft, nothing else.

          If certain trips routinely end in a city where the accommodations are not always available the flight crews should have some say in that.

          They do already. Most unions have committees that work with the airline on accommodations. That's a separate issue from the schedule itself.
           
          JohanTally
          Posts: 532
          Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:08 am

          Vicenza wrote:
          JohanTally wrote:
          stlAV8R wrote:
          Gotcha. I personally believe that would be a mistake on management's part to allow pilots to have a say in anything other than flying the plane. The pilots are better off fighting for better quality of life and job protection. Adding any unqualified group to network planning would be a total disaster.


          Flight crews are having issues with accommodations when arriving at airports for their required rest periods. To the best of my knowledge it's still an ongoing issue that could be remediated with AA pilots providing input during flight schedule creation.


          How would input by pilots 'rectify' issues with accommodation? I would completely agree that schedules have nothing whatsoever to do with pilots......their job is to fly aircraft, nothing else.

          I have a feeling that pilots would disagree that their job is nothing more than flying aircraft. Personally I want my crew to be given the best opportunity available to get their needed rest. As Boof pointed out AA has not been fulfilling their end of the bargain which could ultimately become a safety issue.
           
          jetmatt777
          Posts: 4823
          Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:11 am

          At UA all affected departments are provided a comment period on schedules for them to point out issues such as hotel availability, gate availability, local procedural conflicts, etc, that may have been missed by network planning. Does AA not offer this? I don’t think pilots are trying to build the schedule but jus want to help the company decide what is actually feasible from their side of “shut up and fly”.
           
          stlAV8R
          Posts: 161
          Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:23 pm

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:15 am

          JohanTally wrote:
          Vicenza wrote:
          JohanTally wrote:

          Flight crews are having issues with accommodations when arriving at airports for their required rest periods. To the best of my knowledge it's still an ongoing issue that could be remediated with AA pilots providing input during flight schedule creation.


          How would input by pilots 'rectify' issues with accommodation? I would completely agree that schedules have nothing whatsoever to do with pilots......their job is to fly aircraft, nothing else.

          I have a feeling that pilots would disagree that their job is nothing more than flying aircraft. Personally I want my crew to be given the best opportunity available to get their needed rest. As Boof pointed out AA has not been fulfilling their end of the bargain which could ultimately become a safety issue.

          It's rare that a flight crew would not have a hotel accommodation after a day's work. It's so rare that you found one example of a one-off situation that most likely won't happen again. But one is one too many so they should work with their hotel committee to rectify this. But to let them start tinkering with schedules would turn out bad 100%. I can't think of a good reason a pilot could come up with to have a say as to when and where the company flies. Why should they have a say anyway? And let's not forget the FAs who will want a say as well.
           
          Boof02671
          Posts: 2900
          Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:15 am

          stlAV8R wrote:
          JohanTally wrote:
          Vicenza wrote:

          How would input by pilots 'rectify' issues with accommodation? I would completely agree that schedules have nothing whatsoever to do with pilots......their job is to fly aircraft, nothing else.

          I have a feeling that pilots would disagree that their job is nothing more than flying aircraft. Personally I want my crew to be given the best opportunity available to get their needed rest. As Boof pointed out AA has not been fulfilling their end of the bargain which could ultimately become a safety issue.

          It's rare that a flight crew would not have a hotel accommodation after a day's work. It's so rare that you found one example of a one-off situation that most likely won't happen again. But one is one too many so they should work with their hotel committee to rectify this. But to let them start tinkering with schedules would turn out bad 100%. I can't think of a good reason a pilot could come up with to have a say as to when and where the company flies. Why should they have a say anyway? And let's not forget the FAs who will want a say as well.

          It was rare. It seems to be happening more and more. At AA, WN and DL had a major crew accommodation issue a few years back.

          AA and WN’s unions have filed grievances over the hotel issues

          https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... utType=amp

          https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ks-fatigue

          https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/ameri ... utType=amp

          https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2021 ... ooked/amp/

          Not so isolated anymore.
           
          twoaislesforme
          Posts: 31
          Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:02 pm

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:05 pm

          why does AA seem to start each day with 50 'something' flight cancellations a day?
           
          stlAV8R
          Posts: 161
          Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:23 pm

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:28 pm

          Boof02671 wrote:
          stlAV8R wrote:
          JohanTally wrote:
          I have a feeling that pilots would disagree that their job is nothing more than flying aircraft. Personally I want my crew to be given the best opportunity available to get their needed rest. As Boof pointed out AA has not been fulfilling their end of the bargain which could ultimately become a safety issue.

          It's rare that a flight crew would not have a hotel accommodation after a day's work. It's so rare that you found one example of a one-off situation that most likely won't happen again. But one is one too many so they should work with their hotel committee to rectify this. But to let them start tinkering with schedules would turn out bad 100%. I can't think of a good reason a pilot could come up with to have a say as to when and where the company flies. Why should they have a say anyway? And let's not forget the FAs who will want a say as well.

          It was rare. It seems to be happening more and more. At AA, WN and DL had a major crew accommodation issue a few years back.

          AA and WN’s unions have filed grievances over the hotel issues

          https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... utType=amp

          https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ks-fatigue

          https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/ameri ... utType=amp

          https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2021 ... ooked/amp/

          Not so isolated anymore.

          Considering the amount of crews staying in hotels across the world each night, this still is rare.
           
          stlAV8R
          Posts: 161
          Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:23 pm

          Re: AAnother Meltdown

          Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:29 pm

          twoaislesforme wrote:
          why does AA seem to start each day with 50 'something' flight cancellations a day?

          I'm not sure if this is still the case but a few years back it was typically unfinished maintenance.

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