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Dafydd
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 9:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:24 am

Pionair Australia puts only E190 up for sale. Could Alliance be a potential buyer?

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... p-for-sale
 
redroo
Posts: 678
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:33 pm

EK413 wrote:
Plus don’t follow the news sick tired of the garbage daily case counts.


Same mate. And if anyone brings it up in conversation I make it clear I’m not interested.
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 9523
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:47 pm

zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Virgin has announced today they have signed a LOI for 7 more 737’s, this is on top of the 9 737’s announced in August, once all delivered total fleet of 737’s will be 84

https://newsroom.virginaustralia.com/re ... -re-launch


7x 738s seem amount the right amount to restart the Tasman services in 2022 (hopefully), since they have announced there intend to resume short-haul international.

Of the top of head, pre-covid the Tasman/Pacific Island services from New Zealand used approx 9 aircraft.

I’m interested to see how VA 2.0 will make Tasman work, from an operational point going forward. In March 2020 they made all the New Zealand based crew redundant.

To get the best use of the aircraft eg two return Tasman sectors in an day. You ideally need for the aircraft to start its day in New Zealand (unless you want to offer overnight flights arriving at 5am).

With using New Zealand based crew, that is going to add additional operating expenses with overnighting crew in New Zealand. Compare to the typical Tasman roster on the Tasman with NZ/QF/JQ we’re you 95% of the time you end up back in your old bed.


You can still do 2 daily returns with an Australian based aircraft from MEL and BNE, just with an early start/late finish on the other side. Something like 06:00-11:30/12:20-14:20//15:20-20:50/21:40-23:40. SYD doesn’t work because of the curfew.

The other option of course is to have the aircraft do middle of the day turns with a flight on the triangle before and after to add extra capacity at peak times and fly across the Tasman off-peak. It’s cutting it a bit fine, but something like SYD-MEL-AKL-SYD could be one crew duty, with another aircraft and crew flying the inverse.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4960
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:48 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Virgin has announced today they have signed a LOI for 7 more 737’s, this is on top of the 9 737’s announced in August, once all delivered total fleet of 737’s will be 84

https://newsroom.virginaustralia.com/re ... -re-launch


7x 738s seem amount the right amount to restart the Tasman services in 2022 (hopefully), since they have announced there intend to resume short-haul international.

Of the top of head, pre-covid the Tasman/Pacific Island services from New Zealand used approx 9 aircraft.

I’m interested to see how VA 2.0 will make Tasman work, from an operational point going forward. In March 2020 they made all the New Zealand based crew redundant.

To get the best use of the aircraft eg two return Tasman sectors in an day. You ideally need for the aircraft to start its day in New Zealand (unless you want to offer overnight flights arriving at 5am).

With using New Zealand based crew, that is going to add additional operating expenses with overnighting crew in New Zealand. Compare to the typical Tasman roster on the Tasman with NZ/QF/JQ we’re you 95% of the time you end up back in your old bed.


You can still do 2 daily returns with an Australian based aircraft from MEL and BNE, just with an early start/late finish on the other side. Something like 06:00-11:30/12:20-14:20//15:20-20:50/21:40-23:40. SYD doesn’t work because of the curfew.

The other option of course is to have the aircraft do middle of the day turns with a flight on the triangle before and after to add extra capacity at peak times and fly across the Tasman off-peak. It’s cutting it a bit fine, but something like SYD-MEL-AKL-SYD could be one crew duty, with another aircraft and crew flying the inverse.


Starting the day off with an Australian based aircraft does mean, you lose an morning departure from New Zealand.

For example an aircraft leaving AKL at 0600 can be in SYD by 0700, ready to operate another flight back to AKL at 0800 arriving 1100. Then departing again at 1200 arriving back into Sydney 1300 ready for an 1400 flight to AKL arriving 1700. Ready to depart at 1800 to SYD arriving at 1900 for 2000 departure to AKL arriving at 0100.

Subject to day light savings etc, you can push an AKL based aircraft to make 3x return trips to either SYD,BNE,OOL in an day.
 
a320fan
Posts: 1190
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:04 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:53 am

zkncj wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
zkncj wrote:

7x 738s seem amount the right amount to restart the Tasman services in 2022 (hopefully), since they have announced there intend to resume short-haul international.

Of the top of head, pre-covid the Tasman/Pacific Island services from New Zealand used approx 9 aircraft.

I’m interested to see how VA 2.0 will make Tasman work, from an operational point going forward. In March 2020 they made all the New Zealand based crew redundant.

To get the best use of the aircraft eg two return Tasman sectors in an day. You ideally need for the aircraft to start its day in New Zealand (unless you want to offer overnight flights arriving at 5am).

With using New Zealand based crew, that is going to add additional operating expenses with overnighting crew in New Zealand. Compare to the typical Tasman roster on the Tasman with NZ/QF/JQ we’re you 95% of the time you end up back in your old bed.


You can still do 2 daily returns with an Australian based aircraft from MEL and BNE, just with an early start/late finish on the other side. Something like 06:00-11:30/12:20-14:20//15:20-20:50/21:40-23:40. SYD doesn’t work because of the curfew.

The other option of course is to have the aircraft do middle of the day turns with a flight on the triangle before and after to add extra capacity at peak times and fly across the Tasman off-peak. It’s cutting it a bit fine, but something like SYD-MEL-AKL-SYD could be one crew duty, with another aircraft and crew flying the inverse.


Starting the day off with an Australian based aircraft does mean, you lose an morning departure from New Zealand.

For example an aircraft leaving AKL at 0600 can be in SYD by 0700, ready to operate another flight back to AKL at 0800 arriving 1100. Then departing again at 1200 arriving back into Sydney 1300 ready for an 1400 flight to AKL arriving 1700. Ready to depart at 1800 to SYD arriving at 1900 for 2000 departure to AKL arriving at 0100.

Subject to day light savings etc, you can push an AKL based aircraft to make 3x return trips to either SYD,BNE,OOL in an day.


You could still get that morning departure ex Auckland if you operate a red eye ex Australia. The aircraft would otherwise be just sitting around waiting for a morning departure.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:49 am

Tdan wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Virgin has announced today they have signed a LOI for 7 more 737’s, this is on top of the 9 737’s announced in August, once all delivered total fleet of 737’s will be 84

https://newsroom.virginaustralia.com/re ... -re-launch


Anyone know where these are coming from? Assume the Silk Air tails were in the last release.

Could it be from Lion Air? They have exactly 7 B737-800s stored at ASP now.
 
qfatwa
Posts: 604
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 1999 5:39 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:51 am

For example an aircraft leaving AKL at 0600 can be in SYD by 0700, ready to operate another flight back to AKL at 0800 arriving 1100. Then departing again at 1200 arriving back into Sydney 1300 ready for an 1400 flight to AKL arriving 1700. Ready to depart at 1800 to SYD arriving at 1900 for 2000 departure to AKL arriving at 0100.

Sorry incorrect ... "an aircraft leaving AKL at 0600 can be in SYD by 0700, ready to operate another flight back to AKL at 0800" .. CORRECT ... [but at that time it is already 1000 in Auckland]... so next arrival is 1300; depart at 1400; arrive after 1500; depart at 1600.. [which is already 1800 in Auckland]; so arrive at 2100 ... these all suggest a 60 minute turnaround, and with air traffic and ground movement delays; plus ground staff, boarding, disembarking, quick clean, catering changeover; a miracle to make it a 1 hour turnaround ... SYD could never offer that.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3718
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:58 am

For example an aircraft leaving AKL at 0600 can be in SYD by 0700, ready to operate another flight back to AKL at 0800 arriving 1100. Then departing again at 1200 arriving back into Sydney 1300 ready for an 1400 flight to AKL arriving 1700. Ready to depart at 1800 to SYD arriving at 1900 for 2000 departure to AKL arriving at 0100.


A plane departing SYD at 0800 would not arrive into AKL until 1300 NZ time. Likewise a 1400 departure arrives into AKL at 1900. You seem to have allowed for time difference westbound and ignored it eastbound.

Personally, I remain to be convinced whether VA really see much value in trans-Tasman going forward apart from obvious leisure services to places like Queenstown. They are unlikely to ever have the frequency to compete with QF or NZ over the Tasman and have no domestic connections from AKL etc. I can't help thinking they'd be better off exploiting their domestic franchise which offers maximum profit potential as well as leisure services to places like NAN and DPS.
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 9523
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:09 am

zkncj wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
zkncj wrote:

7x 738s seem amount the right amount to restart the Tasman services in 2022 (hopefully), since they have announced there intend to resume short-haul international.

Of the top of head, pre-covid the Tasman/Pacific Island services from New Zealand used approx 9 aircraft.

I’m interested to see how VA 2.0 will make Tasman work, from an operational point going forward. In March 2020 they made all the New Zealand based crew redundant.

To get the best use of the aircraft eg two return Tasman sectors in an day. You ideally need for the aircraft to start its day in New Zealand (unless you want to offer overnight flights arriving at 5am).

With using New Zealand based crew, that is going to add additional operating expenses with overnighting crew in New Zealand. Compare to the typical Tasman roster on the Tasman with NZ/QF/JQ we’re you 95% of the time you end up back in your old bed.


You can still do 2 daily returns with an Australian based aircraft from MEL and BNE, just with an early start/late finish on the other side. Something like 06:00-11:30/12:20-14:20//15:20-20:50/21:40-23:40. SYD doesn’t work because of the curfew.

The other option of course is to have the aircraft do middle of the day turns with a flight on the triangle before and after to add extra capacity at peak times and fly across the Tasman off-peak. It’s cutting it a bit fine, but something like SYD-MEL-AKL-SYD could be one crew duty, with another aircraft and crew flying the inverse.


Starting the day off with an Australian based aircraft does mean, you lose an morning departure from New Zealand.

For example an aircraft leaving AKL at 0600 can be in SYD by 0700, ready to operate another flight back to AKL at 0800 arriving 1100. Then departing again at 1200 arriving back into Sydney 1300 ready for an 1400 flight to AKL arriving 1700. Ready to depart at 1800 to SYD arriving at 1900 for 2000 departure to AKL arriving at 0100.

Subject to day light savings etc, you can push an AKL based aircraft to make 3x return trips to either SYD,BNE,OOL in an day.


As already pointed out, you’re not accounting for time difference east bound. NZ/VA/QF have always done 2 returns between roughly 0600 and 2330 from NZ. My point is that the exact same pattern works the other way, although you are correct that there isn’t an early morning departure from NZ. Given that the ‘new’ VA will be targeting Australian FFs, plus more price sensitive leisure pax, I don’t think the lack of an 0600 departure ex-AKL would be a big deal to them.
 
Obzerva
Posts: 679
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:46 am

I guess you could say this is an announcement of an announcement.

QF to announce a new route

https://twitter.com/exec_traveller/stat ... 25764?s=21
 
evanb
Posts: 1397
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:12 am

Obzerva wrote:
I guess you could say this is an announcement of an announcement.

QF to announce a new route

https://twitter.com/exec_traveller/stat ... 25764?s=21


Let the overly ambitious speculation begin!
 
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CraigAnderson
Posts: 867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:12 am

Obzerva wrote:
I guess you could say this is an announcement of an announcement.

QF to announce a new route

https://twitter.com/exec_traveller/stat ... 25764?s=21


It's a tease of a pre-announcement to announce a launch..?
 
User avatar
CraigAnderson
Posts: 867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:15 am

So just how Ocker can startup Bonza Airlines get? Its slogan offers a clue!

Bonza prepares for takeoff with new slogan ‘here for Allstralians’
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/busine ... f5b8bcea56

Bonza is still talking up direct point to point regional routes rather than a capital city hub with regional spokes, too. Obviously works well in the massive USA market but can there really be enough demand for that here, especially using Boeing 737s instead of smaller jets like an E190?

Mr Jordan said they were asked where they wanted Bonza to fly to and from, with a wide range of destinations selected, from Hobart to Broome and Busselton to Broken Hill.
“We’ve had requests for flights to all corners of the country proving that Aussies are keen to explore their own backyard,” he said.
“Our focus is firmly on providing leisure travellers more low-cost options for discovering new and especially regional destinations.”
 
User avatar
CraigAnderson
Posts: 867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:34 am

tullamarine wrote:
Personally, I remain to be convinced whether VA really see much value in trans-Tasman going forward apart from obvious leisure services to places like Queenstown. They are unlikely to ever have the frequency to compete with QF or NZ over the Tasman and have no domestic connections from AKL etc. I can't help thinking they'd be better off exploiting their domestic franchise which offers maximum profit potential as well as leisure services to places like NAN and DPS.


I think VA thinks it needs to fly to NZ because that's what it's done in the past and there's a decent market for that and it's also what people expect from them, they'd be surprised if VA didn't fly to NZ. But I agree, they're competing for a limited and right now smaller slice of a limited pie against QF, JQ and NZ, although most AU flyers seem to favour the Aussie carriers. VA needs to continue to be its own airline and march to the beat of its own drum instead of just doing what it did in the past, ie whatever Qantas did. Needs to be smarter and more strategic to press its advantage and be willing to leave some crumbs on the table while it chases larger rewards.
 
log0008
Posts: 605
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:08 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
I guess you could say this is an announcement of an announcement.

QF to announce a new route

https://twitter.com/exec_traveller/stat ... 25764?s=21


It's a tease of a pre-announcement to announce a launch..?


Correct. QF will announce MEL-DEL starting in the new year.

QF are going hard on the Indian market.

The India-Australia market was one of the worlds largest indirect (1 stop) markets in the world pre covid. QF believes that in a post-pandemic work stopovers will be unpopular and is taking the opportunity to seize the very underserved India-Australia market.
 
atal17
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:19 am

log0008 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
I guess you could say this is an announcement of an announcement.

QF to announce a new route

https://twitter.com/exec_traveller/stat ... 25764?s=21


It's a tease of a pre-announcement to announce a launch..?


Correct. QF will announce MEL-DEL starting in the new year.

QF are going hard on the Indian market.

The India-Australia market was one of the worlds largest indirect (1 stop) markets in the world pre covid. QF believes that in a post-pandemic work stopovers will be unpopular and is taking the opportunity to seize the very underserved India-Australia market.


If this is true, then I do hope QF stays for the long haul. They should definitely consider a codeshare with 6E to nab traffic from other points in North India as well as BOM.

I am truly wishing for the best with Qantas and India. Third time lucky, I hope.
 
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SCFlyer
Posts: 1360
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:40 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
Personally, I remain to be convinced whether VA really see much value in trans-Tasman going forward apart from obvious leisure services to places like Queenstown. They are unlikely to ever have the frequency to compete with QF or NZ over the Tasman and have no domestic connections from AKL etc. I can't help thinking they'd be better off exploiting their domestic franchise which offers maximum profit potential as well as leisure services to places like NAN and DPS.


I think VA thinks it needs to fly to NZ because that's what it's done in the past and there's a decent market for that and it's also what people expect from them, they'd be surprised if VA didn't fly to NZ. But I agree, they're competing for a limited and right now smaller slice of a limited pie against QF, JQ and NZ, although most AU flyers seem to favour the Aussie carriers. VA needs to continue to be its own airline and march to the beat of its own drum instead of just doing what it did in the past, ie whatever Qantas did. Needs to be smarter and more strategic to press its advantage and be willing to leave some crumbs on the table while it chases larger rewards.


I do think if VA flies to NZ, it should at least be a combination of leisure and connection timings (connections coming off VA's existing partners e.g DL, EY, AC, et al), as it'll may be cheaper for DL and AC rather than sending their own aircraft into NZ and/or interlining onto their rivals (QF or NZ).

At least VA should make the effort to find their own 'niche' and race in the NZ market rather than the 'contest' they had against QF and NZ in the past (even during the NZ JV/part ownership era).
 
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Velocity7
Posts: 171
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:21 pm

atal17 wrote:

I am truly wishing for the best with Qantas and India. Third time lucky, I hope.


Was it QF51 that use to extend beyond SIN up to India or did I dream that? Essentially operating BNE-SIN-DEL-SIN-BNE. Early /mid 2000's?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 9650
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:37 pm

Velocity7 wrote:
atal17 wrote:

I am truly wishing for the best with Qantas and India. Third time lucky, I hope.


Was it QF51 that use to extend beyond SIN up to India or did I dream that? Essentially operating BNE-SIN-DEL-SIN-BNE. Early /mid 2000's?


Pretty sure it was QF51/52 ex BNE with a change of aircraft in SIN from the then ADL-SIN service that was a 3x weekly A333. ADL-SIN May have stopped before 2012 which I am pretty sure is when QF last served BOM, BNE-SIN was a 744 for a number of years though from memory there was several years of A333 service 2005/2011 or so, it was a 743 before that.
 
kriskim
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:44 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:43 pm

log0008 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
I guess you could say this is an announcement of an announcement.

QF to announce a new route

https://twitter.com/exec_traveller/stat ... 25764?s=21


It's a tease of a pre-announcement to announce a launch..?


Correct. QF will announce MEL-DEL starting in the new year.

QF are going hard on the Indian market.

The India-Australia market was one of the worlds largest indirect (1 stop) markets in the world pre covid. QF believes that in a post-pandemic work stopovers will be unpopular and is taking the opportunity to seize the very underserved India-Australia market.


I was hoping for it to be MEL-ICN, but great to see DEL added! If the route does well, we may even see SYD/MEL-BOM added later on.
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 6030
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:57 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Tdan wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Virgin has announced today they have signed a LOI for 7 more 737’s, this is on top of the 9 737’s announced in August, once all delivered total fleet of 737’s will be 84

https://newsroom.virginaustralia.com/re ... -re-launch


Anyone know where these are coming from? Assume the Silk Air tails were in the last release.

Could it be from Lion Air? They have exactly 7 B737-800s stored at ASP now.

Read on another forum these will be ex-Silk Air which are being phased out of the fleet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Qantas59
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 4:51 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:03 pm

Will be nice to see Qantas back in DEL. Was it in 1974 that QF ceased services at DEL, along with CMB?
 
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Chipmunk1973
Posts: 564
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:23 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
So just how Ocker can startup Bonza Airlines get? Its slogan offers a clue!

Bonza prepares for takeoff with new slogan ‘here for Allstralians’
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/busine ... f5b8bcea56

Bonza is still talking up direct point to point regional routes rather than a capital city hub with regional spokes, too. Obviously works well in the massive USA market but can there really be enough demand for that here, especially using Boeing 737s instead of smaller jets like an E190?


I’m wondering the same thing. A 738 is a big plane to fill from regional spots. An E-190/5 or A221 seems like a better fit in size. I even postulated that a 737 was too big for REX, and that doesn’t seem to be doing brilliantly.

Maybe Aussies have a long memory with regards to Compass Mk I and II and don’t want to get burned. May as well add OzJet to that list too.

Cheers.
 
log0008
Posts: 605
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:18 pm

Great to see the NT is opening borders for fully vaccinated by Dec 20. Finally over Christmas and the New Year we will be able to see a return to a relatively normal domestic market for all except flights in and out of WA.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4960
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:54 pm

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
So just how Ocker can startup Bonza Airlines get? Its slogan offers a clue!

Bonza prepares for takeoff with new slogan ‘here for Allstralians’
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/busine ... f5b8bcea56

Bonza is still talking up direct point to point regional routes rather than a capital city hub with regional spokes, too. Obviously works well in the massive USA market but can there really be enough demand for that here, especially using Boeing 737s instead of smaller jets like an E190?


I’m wondering the same thing. A 738 is a big plane to fill from regional spots. An E-190/5 or A221 seems like a better fit in size. I even postulated that a 737 was too big for REX, and that doesn’t seem to be doing brilliantly.

Maybe Aussies have a long memory with regards to Compass Mk I and II and don’t want to get burned. May as well add OzJet to that list too.

Cheers.


Hopefully Bonza has done some decent backwork, to protect the passengers fares paid in in advanced. For example paying the advanced income into an trust, and making passengers secured creditors.
 
qf2048
Posts: 236
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:16 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:07 am

I had to look up 6E to see who that was. They have codeshare arrangements with two Oneworld airlines being AA and QR so would be a good fit? AAB of QR was looking for new airlines also to join Oneworld. Maybe 6E would be on his radar?
 
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CraigAnderson
Posts: 867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:28 am

log0008 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
I guess you could say this is an announcement of an announcement.

QF to announce a new route

https://twitter.com/exec_traveller/stat ... 25764?s=21


It's a tease of a pre-announcement to announce a launch..?


Correct. QF will announce MEL-DEL starting in the new year.

QF are going hard on the Indian market.

The India-Australia market was one of the worlds largest indirect (1 stop) markets in the world pre covid. QF believes that in a post-pandemic work stopovers will be unpopular and is taking the opportunity to seize the very underserved India-Australia market.


I wonder if this will be a split schedule like Qantas is about to start for Singapore, with say 4x weekly ex-SYD and 3x weekly ex-MEL?
 
myki
Posts: 513
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:16 am

Obzerva wrote:
I guess you could say this is an announcement of an announcement.

QF to announce a new route

https://twitter.com/exec_traveller/stat ... 25764?s=21

I have no insight into the route, and it may well be MEL-DEL, however the tweet never states the new route will be from MEL ;)
 
atal17
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:58 am

https://livefromalounge.com/air-india-r ... ey-flight/

AI has quietly resumed services between Delhi and Sydney - 3 per week since November 15th
 
log0008
Posts: 605
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:57 am

The next step in Australia's reopening will be announced as soon as tomorrow. Focus on PRs, students, economic migrants, and refugees.
 
NZ321
Posts: 1642
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:13 pm

zkncj wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
zkncj wrote:

7x 738s seem amount the right amount to restart the Tasman services in 2022 (hopefully), since they have announced there intend to resume short-haul international.

Of the top of head, pre-covid the Tasman/Pacific Island services from New Zealand used approx 9 aircraft.

I’m interested to see how VA 2.0 will make Tasman work, from an operational point going forward. In March 2020 they made all the New Zealand based crew redundant.

To get the best use of the aircraft eg two return Tasman sectors in an day. You ideally need for the aircraft to start its day in New Zealand (unless you want to offer overnight flights arriving at 5am).

With using New Zealand based crew, that is going to add additional operating expenses with overnighting crew in New Zealand. Compare to the typical Tasman roster on the Tasman with NZ/QF/JQ we’re you 95% of the time you end up back in your old bed.


You can still do 2 daily returns with an Australian based aircraft from MEL and BNE, just with an early start/late finish on the other side. Something like 06:00-11:30/12:20-14:20//15:20-20:50/21:40-23:40. SYD doesn’t work because of the curfew.

The other option of course is to have the aircraft do middle of the day turns with a flight on the triangle before and after to add extra capacity at peak times and fly across the Tasman off-peak. It’s cutting it a bit fine, but something like SYD-MEL-AKL-SYD could be one crew duty, with another aircraft and crew flying the inverse.


Starting the day off with an Australian based aircraft does mean, you lose an morning departure from New Zealand.

For example an aircraft leaving AKL at 0600 can be in SYD by 0700, ready to operate another flight back to AKL at 0800 arriving 1100. Then departing again at 1200 arriving back into Sydney 1300 ready for an 1400 flight to AKL arriving 1700. Ready to depart at 1800 to SYD arriving at 1900 for 2000 departure to AKL arriving at 0100..


Something wrong with your maths here, NCJ... :) AKL-SYD is about 3hr30 while SYD-AKL is at least 3hr. Hence: AKL0600-SYD0730; SYD0840-AKL1340; AKL1500-SYD1630; SYD1740-AKL2240. So it's generally two return trips per day maximum....
 
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EK413
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Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:06 pm

Hearing news of a new international service to operate to DEL

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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:29 pm

So it's Melbourne-Delhi, Qantas says four flights a week with the outbound leg via Adelaide

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... elhi-india
 
log0008
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:51 pm

Great to see QF's announcement!

EK has scheduled the 380 into Melbourne from Feb 1.
 
atal17
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:08 am

Interestingly - QF has put this flight as a year round service already according to their press release.

QF’s probably gonna try it for the long-haul then.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:19 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
So it's Melbourne-Delhi, Qantas says four flights a week with the outbound leg via Adelaide

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... elhi-india


Interesting choice via ADL, I would have thought they would have wanted to consolidate their ops in DRW as a mini hub? Wonder if it will move to PER once WA reopens? Although challenge with picking up pax in a transit port is they return journey.
 
Sydscott
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:19 am

Well the first international flight of the year is done and my comments are as follows:

- I was on Singapore Airlines SYD-SIN-LHR - First was full. (I'd say all of First was upgrades using FF judging by comments made). Business was overall at about 40% outbound but 80% LHR-SIN and 100% SIN-SYD. Premium economy and economy were dead zones. I'd say about 15% avg load factor in those overall.
- Covid testing is actually easy but people need to be organised because each airline follows their countries guidelines. So while Australia has a 72 hour covid test window, Singapore is 48 hours. So beware of the difference.
- It's up to the airlines to check you have everything you need at checkin. Once I checked in in Sydney, and conversely checked in in London to come home, no paperwork was checked after that including at any of the Borders by Customs and Immigration. So at LHR all of the smart gates were working and everything was processed as normal. In Sydney it was manual processing with no smartgates.

That's about it. Ironic that I can go to London but can't see family in Perth but whatever. :-)
 
vhebb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:25 am

I assume these India flights will eventually be direct from SYD and MEL?
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:00 am

EK413 wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Tdan wrote:

Anyone know where these are coming from? Assume the Silk Air tails were in the last release.

Could it be from Lion Air? They have exactly 7 B737-800s stored at ASP now.

Read on another forum these will be ex-Silk Air which are being phased out of the fleet.
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Thank you, that makes sense too to source from the same source. SQ has 8 B737MAX currently waiting for delivery. Once the delivery starts, the current 9 B737-8SA in fleet will be retired quickly.
 
VHMHS
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:01 am

vhebb wrote:
I assume these India flights will eventually be direct from SYD and MEL?


It’s a fuel stop in Adelaide, so unless they upgrade to a Dreamliner or get some more legs on the 330, probs not
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:06 am

VHMHS wrote:
vhebb wrote:
I assume these India flights will eventually be direct from SYD and MEL?


It’s a fuel stop in Adelaide, so unless they upgrade to a Dreamliner or get some more legs on the 330, probs not

If the A332s for MEL-DEL were the same spec as those doing BNE-LAX, a non-stop to India would be very easy given the US route is about 1400km longer. The question is how many A332s QF are upgrading to the higher MTOW figure.
 
vhebb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:58 am

Looks like from APR 2022 the MEL-DEL goes direct.

ADL stop is temporary.
 
flyforever321
Posts: 2
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:03 am

flying SYD/LAX direct in January & thought we were up for a fortune in covid tests (1/5 of each return airfare) but now from only $59 in Australia. Hopefully prices will come down in USA as well.
 
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EK413
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Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:09 am

I’d say once the 3 x B789’s which QF are attempting to bring forward delivery of will then free up the A330’s which have the higher MTOW.


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jrfspa320
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:13 am

The 789 would not work on DEL, far too premium heavy. Im surprised that QF have stuck to the single config for the 789s, perhaps if they order further aircraft to replace the A330s on Asian routes.
 
vhebb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:19 am

Is QF going to suffer a long haul fleet shortage?

Prior to covid the QF had pretty much fully utilized the international fleet.

Now they will be permanently down 6x B744s and 2x A380s.

I can't see how services can return to pre covid. The 3 787s that are coming were already going to be used on the existing network (replace some 744s) plus BNE-ORD.

The previous daily BNE-HKG and 5x weekly SYD-KIX have not been added to any of the schedules for 2022 nor has BNE-ORD. Are they coming back?
 
jrfspa320
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:30 am

vhebb wrote:
Is QF going to suffer a long haul fleet shortage?

Prior to covid the QF had pretty much fully utilized the international fleet.

Now they will be permanently down 6x B744s and 2x A380s.

I can't see how services can return to pre covid. The 3 787s that are coming were already going to be used on the existing network (replace some 744s) plus BNE-ORD.

The previous daily BNE-HKG and 5x weekly SYD-KIX have not been added to any of the schedules for 2022 nor has BNE-ORD. Are they coming back?


Until HKG opens i dont think it will come back from any port.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:32 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
vhebb wrote:
Is QF going to suffer a long haul fleet shortage?

Prior to covid the QF had pretty much fully utilized the international fleet.

Now they will be permanently down 6x B744s and 2x A380s.

I can't see how services can return to pre covid. The 3 787s that are coming were already going to be used on the existing network (replace some 744s) plus BNE-ORD.

The previous daily BNE-HKG and 5x weekly SYD-KIX have not been added to any of the schedules for 2022 nor has BNE-ORD. Are they coming back?


Until HKG opens i dont think it will come back from any port.


I also wonder about the JQ 787 - with all the testing costs international leisure travel may not be as competitive with domestic travel. Even if they don’t move across to QF they could still back fill some QF capacity.
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 965
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:43 am

smi0006 wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:
vhebb wrote:
Is QF going to suffer a long haul fleet shortage?

Prior to covid the QF had pretty much fully utilized the international fleet.

Now they will be permanently down 6x B744s and 2x A380s.

I can't see how services can return to pre covid. The 3 787s that are coming were already going to be used on the existing network (replace some 744s) plus BNE-ORD.

The previous daily BNE-HKG and 5x weekly SYD-KIX have not been added to any of the schedules for 2022 nor has BNE-ORD. Are they coming back?


Until HKG opens i dont think it will come back from any port.


I also wonder about the JQ 787 - with all the testing costs international leisure travel may not be as competitive with domestic travel. Even if they don’t move across to QF they could still back fill some QF capacity.


Very true, the cost of testing will be off-putting for the price sensitive market. But i think they will try to pivot to inbound leisured markets, JQ are already launching flights from SIN for instance, i think Japan, Korea might follow.
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:45 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
The 789 would not work on DEL, far too premium heavy. Im surprised that QF have stuck to the single config for the 789s, perhaps if they order further aircraft to replace the A330s on Asian routes.

I never indicated QF would use the B789 on DEL, what I was implying is once the 3 x B789’s come online it would free up the A330 fleet which have the increased MTOW to operate MEL/SYD-DEL direct…


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