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qf789
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New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:29 am

Welcome to New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021. Please continue to add your comments below

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1465297
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:57 am

https://twitter.com/FlyAirNZ/status/1454523500228595714

Is it just me or does this A320 have a HUD?
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:32 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
https://twitter.com/FlyAirNZ/status/1454523500228595714

Is it just me or does this A320 have a HUD?


All of the domestic sharklets a320s have an HUD fitted on the captains side only.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Oct 31, 2021 10:39 pm

There is a user on this forum with a most insightful signature line (where have the signature lines gone by the way - I don’t seem to see them any more except in profiles)

"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."


It stands to reason that response to a global pandemic is also very nuanced and not particularly amenable to binary yes-no considerations. I think we’d all agree that “close the border completely no exceptions” and “remove all the restrictions” are both equally foolhardy responses. The question then, as we are all grappling with, is what do the nuances need to be. Unfortunately our media environment tends to push as away from dealing with nuance and instead into broad generalisations which fit nicely into a 30 second sound grab, but which don’t address the real issue.

While we are spending a bit of time thinking about international borders, I would suggest the one which is most consequential in terms of the immediate future of the aviation industry and those it supports is the Auckland border. Air New Zealand is running a much reduced operation until at least the beginning of December, as are Air Chathams, and it is likely that will continue until travel restrictions to and from Auckland are lifted. From what I can gather listening to press conferences and reading what is published by the government, the Auckland border will remain until the whole country moves to the traffic light system. This would enable Auckland to move to that system earlier. It will be interesting to see how long that is. If there are a few DHB areas which are below 90% while the rest of them are above, would the government consider for example removing the Auckland border and putting protective borders around those DHB areas until they meet the threshold? It’s going to be a very finely balanced game I think to get Auckland open to the rest of the country in December. What is everyone else’s insight on this?

V/F
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:39 pm

Getting back on topic. Today was the first electric powered flight over water. The Electric Air flight left Blenheim and flew to Wellington a 78 km journey and still had 40% left of battery power.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/12684 ... on-airport
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 01, 2021 12:46 am

Apparently it was the longest overwater flight by a battery electric plane. https://twitter.com/AirwaysNZ/status/14 ... 3385201669

I'm assuming they're only referring to crewed planes.

I really do think battery electric regional aircraft will result in an explosion of domestic air travel in NZ. They're pretty much perfect for regional travel.
 
aerokiwi
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:49 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Apparently it was the longest overwater flight by a battery electric plane. https://twitter.com/AirwaysNZ/status/14 ... 3385201669

I'm assuming they're only referring to crewed planes.

I really do think battery electric regional aircraft will result in an explosion of domestic air travel in NZ. They're pretty much perfect for regional travel.


I agree. Was surprised to see the cost comparison - $2 in electricity versus $100 in avgas - remarkable!

I'm currently working on batteries for a different transport form but am learning so much. The capex differential right now is significant but will come down eventually. With opex cost savings like that you'd think the business case would stack up in the next few years. Would be interesting to see how airportcharging infrastructure changes too.

The other element that I hadn't been aware of was just how heavy current batteries are. I'd assume that would have an outsized impact for smaller aircraft but perhaps it just supplants the weight of the equivalent fuel.

Exciting times for e aircraft.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:54 am

aerokiwi wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Apparently it was the longest overwater flight by a battery electric plane. https://twitter.com/AirwaysNZ/status/14 ... 3385201669

I'm assuming they're only referring to crewed planes.

I really do think battery electric regional aircraft will result in an explosion of domestic air travel in NZ. They're pretty much perfect for regional travel.


I agree. Was surprised to see the cost comparison - $2 in electricity versus $100 in avgas - remarkable!

I'm currently working on batteries for a different transport form but am learning so much. The capex differential right now is significant but will come down eventually. With opex cost savings like that you'd think the business case would stack up in the next few years. Would be interesting to see how airportcharging infrastructure changes too.

The other element that I hadn't been aware of was just how heavy current batteries are. I'd assume that would have an outsized impact for smaller aircraft but perhaps it just supplants the weight of the equivalent fuel.

Exciting times for e aircraft.


Yeah. The biggest problem batteries have is they don't get lighter as they're used up. :P

So for long haul it won't be an option without national and international regulations forcing it.

But for short haul it's much less of a problem.
 
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qf789
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:16 am

Please stick to aviation, discussion about vaccinations belongs in non-aviation
 
wstakl
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:49 am

qf789 wrote:
Please stick to aviation, discussion about vaccinations belongs in non-aviation


Odd, considering they are the only way we'll be able to enjoy flying and traveling again....
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:55 am

One way travel is now available from New Zealand to Australia which started today November 1 apparently. Qantas today flew into Wellington with a Airbus A330 for a change from Melbourne.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/ ... -november/
 
mrkerr7474
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:39 am

NZ516 wrote:
One way travel is now available from New Zealand to Australia which started today November 1 apparently. Qantas today flew into Wellington with a Airbus A330 for a change from Melbourne.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/ ... -november/


I was intrigued by seeing QF to Sydney on the departure board today while noting an A330 also. I thought it may have been the one way travel to Aussie allowing Australians to return from Wellington, but just seen an article on stuff (sorry I don't know how to post links) and it was a charter flight for the Wellington Phoenix and NZ Breakers heading to Australia to base themselves there for the start of the respective seasons.

Not to be picky, but the aircraft flew in from Sydney to ;)
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:43 am

With the prospect of some near by travel, reopening in 2022 to New Zealand.

With Singapore being mentioned a place that we might be able to travel to in 2022 (yup - I might be an little hopeful there).

What is the go with Scoot and New Zealand? Could we seen them finally make an entrance Into the New Zealand.

Pre-Covid we saw NZ/SQ provide an pretty impressive weekly line up from New Zealand with CHC/WLG/AKL services.

Does make we wonder about he agreement between NZ/SQ joint venture, does it prevent Scoot from operating to New Zealand?
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:30 am

zkncj wrote:
With the prospect of some near by travel, reopening in 2022 to New Zealand.

With Singapore being mentioned a place that we might be able to travel to in 2022 (yup - I might be an little hopeful there).

What is the go with Scoot and New Zealand? Could we seen them finally make an entrance Into the New Zealand.

Pre-Covid we saw NZ/SQ provide an pretty impressive weekly line up from New Zealand with CHC/WLG/AKL services.

Does make we wonder about he agreement between NZ/SQ joint venture, does it prevent Scoot from operating to New Zealand?


I’ve got no idea what the NZ/SQ agreement says, we flew TR to ATH , SQ AKL-SIN then TR SIN-ATH, gotta say I would rather not fly LCLH.

Just curious as to why you think TR should fly to NZ? NZ/SQ had a good lineup pre covid, I’m not sure they need TR here personally.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:36 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
https://twitter.com/FlyAirNZ/status/1454523500228595714

Is it just me or does this A320 have a HUD?


The 320 & 321 NEO's have HUD for both pilot stations, as mentioned above the sharklets have it on the Capt's Side
 
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zkojq
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:02 pm

ZK-NHF has been delivered. Has flown TLS-YQX two days ago, YQX-LAX-HNL yesterday (both NZ6095). Presumably it will fly HNL-AKL tomorrow?


VirginFlyer wrote:
There is a user on this forum with a most insightful signature line (where have the signature lines gone by the way - I don’t seem to see them any more except in profiles)

"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."


It stands to reason that response to a global pandemic is also very nuanced and not particularly amenable to binary yes-no considerations. I think we’d all agree that “close the border completely no exceptions” and “remove all the restrictions” are both equally foolhardy responses. The question then, as we are all grappling with, is what do the nuances need to be. Unfortunately our media environment tends to push as away from dealing with nuance and instead into broad generalisations which fit nicely into a 30 second sound grab, but which don’t address the real issue.


Well said.
 
GW54
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:29 am

Interesting to see A320NEO NHF is well on it's way to it's new home. What has happened to NHE? It completed it's first flight ahead of NHF . Anybody aware of any problems with it or is delivery immenent?
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:20 am

GW54 wrote:
Interesting to see A320NEO NHF is well on it's way to it's new home. What has happened to NHE? It completed it's first flight ahead of NHF . Anybody aware of any problems with it or is delivery immenent?

Could be an leased frame? With its delivery deferred?
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:40 am

zkojq wrote:
ZK-NHF has been delivered. Has flown TLS-YQX two days ago, YQX-LAX-HNL yesterday (both NZ6095). Presumably it will fly HNL-AKL tomorrow?


ZK-NHF should be HNL-RAR-AKL tomorrow as NZ6095. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-nhf There's a nice FR24 photo of it at LAX.

GW54 wrote:
Interesting to see A320NEO NHF is well on it's way to it's new home. What has happened to NHE? It completed it's first flight ahead of NHF . Anybody aware of any problems with it or is delivery immenent?


zkncj wrote:
Could be an leased frame? With its delivery deferred?


ZK-NHE and ZK-NHF were intended to be owned aircraft, so financed, which shouldn't be a problem. The delay to ZK-NHE could be a technical issue as https://www.digitalairliners.com '23 Oct LOG: Toulouse Blagnac (TLS)' had NHF in the Delivery Centre area while NHE was still in the Flightline area.

PA515
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:28 am

PA515 wrote:
zkojq wrote:
ZK-NHF has been delivered. Has flown TLS-YQX two days ago, YQX-LAX-HNL yesterday (both NZ6095). Presumably it will fly HNL-AKL tomorrow?


ZK-NHF should be HNL-RAR-AKL tomorrow as NZ6095. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-nhf There's a nice FR24 photo of it at LAX.

GW54 wrote:
Interesting to see A320NEO NHF is well on it's way to it's new home. What has happened to NHE? It completed it's first flight ahead of NHF . Anybody aware of any problems with it or is delivery immenent?


zkncj wrote:
Could be an leased frame? With its delivery deferred?


ZK-NHE and ZK-NHF were intended to be owned aircraft, so financed, which shouldn't be a problem. The delay to ZK-NHE could be a technical issue as https://www.digitalairliners.com '23 Oct LOG: Toulouse Blagnac (TLS)' had NHF in the Delivery Centre area while NHE was still in the Flightline area.

PA515

Heard a rumour that it had an aborted takeoff in HNL.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Wed Nov 03, 2021 4:48 am

ZK-NHE had another test flight about 15 hrs ago which could be the acceptance flight.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/f-wwdr

PA515
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Wed Nov 03, 2021 4:49 am

Zkpilot wrote:
PA515 wrote:
zkojq wrote:
ZK-NHF has been delivered. Has flown TLS-YQX two days ago, YQX-LAX-HNL yesterday (both NZ6095). Presumably it will fly HNL-AKL tomorrow?


ZK-NHF should be HNL-RAR-AKL tomorrow as NZ6095. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-nhf There's a nice FR24 photo of it at LAX.

GW54 wrote:
Interesting to see A320NEO NHF is well on it's way to it's new home. What has happened to NHE? It completed it's first flight ahead of NHF . Anybody aware of any problems with it or is delivery immenent?


zkncj wrote:
Could be an leased frame? With its delivery deferred?


ZK-NHE and ZK-NHF were intended to be owned aircraft, so financed, which shouldn't be a problem. The delay to ZK-NHE could be a technical issue as https://www.digitalairliners.com '23 Oct LOG: Toulouse Blagnac (TLS)' had NHF in the Delivery Centre area while NHE was still in the Flightline area.

PA515

Heard a rumour that it had an aborted takeoff in HNL.


Be a pity if it needs new tyres already
 
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Avtur
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:26 am

[
PA515[/quote]
Heard a rumour that it had an aborted takeoff in HNL.[/quote]

Interesting…. I heard a rumour that it had nose gear issues at YQX.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:29 am

So some more stuff on transport to airports. The other day another 4 options were proposed for Mass Rapid Transit in Wellington. Of the 4 proposals, only one of them has a form of MRT to the airport. And even then it is only Bus Rapid Transit.

All 4 proposals have a mixture of bus priority and dedicated bus lanes between airport and station.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/n ... t-overhaul

A few years ago I would have been annoyed at the lack of any real rapid transit to the airport. But the arguments to start with the Island Bay to station link have convinced me. Priority at intersections and largely dedicated lanes should be enough for airport use for a while to come. Supporting intensification of good housing takes precedence over my avgeek wants.

And leave the whole hurr-durr nothing will happen out of it. Nothing ever happens until it does.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:04 am

PA515 wrote:
zkojq wrote:
ZK-NHF has been delivered. Has flown TLS-YQX two days ago, YQX-LAX-HNL yesterday (both NZ6095). Presumably it will fly HNL-AKL tomorrow?


ZK-NHF should be HNL-RAR-AKL tomorrow as NZ6095. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-nhf There's a nice FR24 photo of it at LAX.



Guessing that RAR was chosen for an fresh set of flight crew to swap out?
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:24 am

Zkpilot wrote:
PA515 wrote:
zkojq wrote:
ZK-NHF has been delivered. Has flown TLS-YQX two days ago, YQX-LAX-HNL yesterday (both NZ6095). Presumably it will fly HNL-AKL tomorrow?


ZK-NHF should be HNL-RAR-AKL tomorrow as NZ6095. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-nhf There's a nice FR24 photo of it at LAX.

GW54 wrote:
Interesting to see A320NEO NHF is well on it's way to it's new home. What has happened to NHE? It completed it's first flight ahead of NHF . Anybody aware of any problems with it or is delivery immenent?


zkncj wrote:
Could be an leased frame? With its delivery deferred?


ZK-NHE and ZK-NHF were intended to be owned aircraft, so financed, which shouldn't be a problem. The delay to ZK-NHE could be a technical issue as https://www.digitalairliners.com '23 Oct LOG: Toulouse Blagnac (TLS)' had NHF in the Delivery Centre area while NHE was still in the Flightline area.

PA515

Heard a rumour that it had an aborted takeoff in HNL.

Correct. Was airborne not too long after the rejected takeoff.
 
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zkojq
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Wed Nov 03, 2021 4:04 pm

ZK-NZC was the 'jabaseat' 787 from the Super Saturday event last month, right?

77west wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Heard a rumour that it had an aborted takeoff in HNL.


Be a pity if it needs new tyres already


Avtur wrote:
Interesting…. I heard a rumour that it had nose gear issues at YQX.


And thus ZK-NHF will forever be known as a hangar queen. :lol:

zkncj wrote:
Guessing that RAR was chosen for an fresh set of flight crew to swap out?


Makes sense. HNL-AKLis a long way for a narrowbody, but I'd have thought that it would been within the range of an empty neo.
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:46 am

zkojq wrote:
ZK-NZC was the 'jabaseat' 787 from the Super Saturday event last month, right?

77west wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Heard a rumour that it had an aborted takeoff in HNL.


Be a pity if it needs new tyres already


Avtur wrote:
Interesting…. I heard a rumour that it had nose gear issues at YQX.


And thus ZK-NHF will forever be known as a hangar queen. :lol:

zkncj wrote:
Guessing that RAR was chosen for an fresh set of flight crew to swap out?


Makes sense. HNL-AKLis a long way for a narrowbody, but I'd have thought that it would been within the range of an empty neo.


Every time any of us sees this reg at the gate we are gonna be like "oh no.... here we go." Poor thing
 
GW54
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:09 pm

77west wrote:
zkojq wrote:
ZK-NZC was the 'jabaseat' 787 from the Super Saturday event last month, right?

77west wrote:

Be a pity if it needs new tyres already


Avtur wrote:
Interesting…. I heard a rumour that it had nose gear issues at YQX.


And thus ZK-NHF will forever be known as a hangar queen. :lol:

zkncj wrote:
Guessing that RAR was chosen for an fresh set of flight crew to swap out?


Makes sense. HNL-AKLis a long way for a narrowbody, but I'd have thought that it would been within the range of an empty neo.


Every time any of us sees this reg at the gate we are gonna be like "oh no.... here we go." Poor thing


Rumours don't make it a Hangar Queen.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:56 am

Cook Island Bubble re-opens on 14 January 2022 - Well only to those who are 12+ as you have to be fully vaxed.

So if you looking for an Kid Free Holiday in January, Rarotonga could be the Island of choice.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-cook-islands-new-zealand-travel-bubble-to-resume-in-january/7KLBRG67GU2IGH3ZB4YNFK3NDI/
 
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Kiwings
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:06 am

So if the international borders open in early 2021 to NZ passport holders/residents and I am hearing 31JAN could be the date, what airlines are going to restart what services and with what aircraft. Be interesting to see what markets bounce back quicker than others. Let's see who is the best forecaster ?
 
GW54
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:42 am

Kiwings wrote:
So if the international borders open in early 2021 to NZ passport holders/residents and I am hearing 31JAN could be the date, what airlines are going to restart what sexceededervices and with what aircraft. Be interesting to see what markets bounce back quicker than others. Let's see who is the best forecaster ?


Looking at what is happening in Australia nothing would surprise. The speed that Qantas are looking at getting A380's back into service is a example of where anticipated demand has exceeded planned capacity. I am sure Air NZ are burning the mid night oil trying to understand what this means for them. Will we see 773ER's back earlier than planned, will they be bringing back those currently in the desert in anticipation.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sat Nov 06, 2021 7:17 am

GW54 wrote:
Kiwings wrote:
So if the international borders open in early 2021 to NZ passport holders/residents and I am hearing 31JAN could be the date, what airlines are going to restart what sexceededervices and with what aircraft. Be interesting to see what markets bounce back quicker than others. Let's see who is the best forecaster ?


Looking at what is happening in Australia nothing would surprise. The speed that Qantas are looking at getting A380's back into service is a example of where anticipated demand has exceeded planned capacity. I am sure Air NZ are burning the mid night oil trying to understand what this means for them. Will we see 773ER's back earlier than planned, will they be bringing back those currently in the desert in anticipation.


QF don’t have any other option than to bring back A380s, they will do it sensibly on the routes that need them. NZ have 3 77Ws in AKL already, even now I’m still not 100% convinced they need them, though with EWR planned still then maybe just enough 77Ws for LAX?
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:53 pm

Air NZs final ATR ZKMZF is on its way with it's ferry flight coming over Asia. It has been ten years since the first order was placed for the 600 version. The airline plans to increase domestic capacity to 110% of pre covid flying this is great to hear.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industri ... was-placed
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:14 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Air NZs final ATR ZKMZF is on its way with it's ferry flight coming over Asia. It has been ten years since the first order was placed for the 600 version. The airline plans to increase domestic capacity to 110% of pre covid flying this is great to hear.

MZF isn't on its way yet, but NHE started its delivery flight last night routing the same as NHF the other week. Currently cooling its heels in Gander.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:09 pm

SXI899 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Air NZs final ATR ZKMZF is on its way with it's ferry flight coming over Asia. It has been ten years since the first order was placed for the 600 version. The airline plans to increase domestic capacity to 110% of pre covid flying this is great to hear.

MZF isn't on its way yet, but NHE started its delivery flight last night routing the same as NHF the other week. Currently cooling its heels in Gander.


Ok so not quite yet for MZF delivery. Wish they got 30 of them seems strange to stop at 29 ATRs. Then the final one would be Mike Zulu Golf MZG.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 12:11 am

ZK-NBT wrote:

QF don’t have any other option than to bring back A380s, they will do it sensibly on the routes that need them. NZ have 3 77Ws in AKL already, even now I’m still not 100% convinced they need them, though with EWR planned still then maybe just enough 77Ws for LAX?


If QTF re-opens to New Zealand early in 2022, could see the 3x 77W’s that are currently parked up in AKL. Being used on the Tasman / Pacific routes, while the 789s are left to longer routes as demand pickups backup.

The cheaper operating costs of the 789s would make some logical sense on longer routes. While the 77W higher operating cost, in some sense would be logical to use on shorter routes.
 
GW54
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:45 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
GW54 wrote:
Kiwings wrote:
So if the international borders open in early 2021 to NZ passport holders/residents and I am hearing 31JAN could be the date, what airlines are going to restart what sexceededervices and with what aircraft. Be interesting to see what markets bounce back quicker than others. Let's see who is the best forecaster ?


Looking at what is happening in Australia nothing would surprise. The speed that Qantas are looking at getting A380's back into service is a example of where anticipated demand has exceeded planned capacity. I am sure Air NZ are burning the mid night oil trying to understand what this means for them. Will we see 773ER's back earlier than planned, will they be bringing back those currently in the desert in anticipation.


QF don’t have any other option than to bring back A380s, they will do it sensibly on the routes that need them. NZ have 3 77Ws in AKL already, even now I’m still not 100% convinced they need them, though with EWR planned still then maybe just enough 77Ws for LAX?


Not sure I agree entirely but take your point. QF actually still have new build 787's parked in the desert. Seems the A380 decision is based purely on the need for capacity. If the same trend happens locally a 777 fleet in excess of the three in Auckland seems probable I would suggest.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:33 am

GW54 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
GW54 wrote:

Looking at what is happening in Australia nothing would surprise. The speed that Qantas are looking at getting A380's back into service is a example of where anticipated demand has exceeded planned capacity. I am sure Air NZ are burning the mid night oil trying to understand what this means for them. Will we see 773ER's back earlier than planned, will they be bringing back those currently in the desert in anticipation.


QF don’t have any other option than to bring back A380s, they will do it sensibly on the routes that need them. NZ have 3 77Ws in AKL already, even now I’m still not 100% convinced they need them, though with EWR planned still then maybe just enough 77Ws for LAX?


Not sure I agree entirely but take your point. QF actually still have new build 787's parked in the desert. Seems the A380 decision is based purely on the need for capacity. If the same trend happens locally a 777 fleet in excess of the three in Auckland seems probable I would suggest.


QF are already from what I gather trying to bring the remaining 3 789 deliveries forward. They have no other aircraft capable of US mainland flying from SYD/MEL, BNE-LAX/SFO is going to some less dense A332s to cover the shortfall, though I don’t think this is a short term plan myself. The A380 is needed on the busiest routes and the reality that they even with 3 additional 789 and A332s ex BNE they don’t have enough 789s to cover the retirement of the 744s.

I do think NZ as a country will be a few months behind Australia in opening up, if so I agree there seems to be a need for 77Ws atleast enough to cover LAX given the current plan looks to be to return all routes bar LHR/EZE, weather this happens remains to be seen.

How much capacity of their own do NZ have to use to SIN/HKG with the SQ/CX JVs? In the case of HKG what will that even look like given the situation there?

You can cover SIN/HKG/NRT/PVG/PER all daily with 6 789s, LAX daily IAH/SFO/ORD/EWR/YVR 3-4 weekly each with 7 frames leaving just HNL/PPT/DPS/ICN/TPE, given say that and maybe 2x LAX and 1-2 more frequencies to IAH/SFO etc there is probably a need for some 77W capacity, though could UA do the second LAX flight?
 
tealnz
Posts: 666
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:47 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:51 am

Can anyone tell us how many 77Ws NZ still has on the books? It’s not just the three parked in Auckland, presumably. And surely they would want more than three to maintain a viable fleet if they decide to bring them back into service.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8166
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:09 am

tealnz wrote:
Can anyone tell us how many 77Ws NZ still has on the books? It’s not just the three parked in Auckland, presumably. And surely they would want more than three to maintain a viable fleet if they decide to bring them back into service.


It was said one would be returned, given they are already in the fleet like the 744s were I don’t know what a viable fleet would be of 77Ws, 3 might be enough.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8166
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:09 am

Kiwings wrote:
So if the international borders open in early 2021 to NZ passport holders/residents and I am hearing 31JAN could be the date, what airlines are going to restart what services and with what aircraft. Be interesting to see what markets bounce back quicker than others. Let's see who is the best forecaster ?



Hard to say I think but some of the smaller secondry Chinese carriers I wouldn’t see returning. Most others I would see returning with lower frequency smaller aircraft in some cases. I’ll give some rough guesstimates but that is all they are if we use Jan 31st as a date. Some haven’t stopped but have changed aircraft types etc. not expecting to see AA until Oct 2022, Or UA who have the PW 772 fleet still grounded currently until those are flying again.

SQ 10 weekly 77W
CX daily 359
MH 5 weekly A332
KE 4 weekly 789
TG 4 weekly 359
EK daily 77W via KUL
QR 3 weekly 77W via BNE
CA 4 weekly 789
CZ 10 weekly 789
MU daily A332
CI 4 weekly A359 TPE non stop
PR 2 weekly A333 MNL non stop
HA 3 weekly A332
LA 3 weekly 789 SCL-AKL-SYD
TN 2 weekly 789
 
PA515
Posts: 1687
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:35 pm

zkojq wrote:
ZK-NZC was the 'jabaseat' 787 from the Super Saturday event last month, right?

Correct. There was a short video of the event with part of the nose wheel reg visible, which meant only NZC, NZG or NZQ, but the cabin was a Code 1 and NZG was not in AKL that day.

PA515
 
zkncj
Posts: 4408
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:27 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
Kiwings wrote:
So if the international borders open in early 2021 to NZ passport holders/residents and I am hearing 31JAN could be the date, what airlines are going to restart what services and with what aircraft. Be interesting to see what markets bounce back quicker than others. Let's see who is the best forecaster ?



Hard to say I think but some of the smaller secondry Chinese carriers I wouldn’t see returning. Most others I would see returning with lower frequency smaller aircraft in some cases. I’ll give some rough guesstimates but that is all they are if we use Jan 31st as a date. Some haven’t stopped but have changed aircraft types etc. not expecting to see AA until Oct 2022, Or UA who have the PW 772 fleet still grounded currently until those are flying again.

SQ 10 weekly 77W
CX daily 359
MH 5 weekly A332
KE 4 weekly 789
TG 4 weekly 359
EK daily 77W via KUL
QR 3 weekly 77W via BNE
CA 4 weekly 789
CZ 10 weekly 789
MU daily A332
CI 4 weekly A359 TPE non stop
PR 2 weekly A333 MNL non stop
HA 3 weekly A332
LA 3 weekly 789 SCL-AKL-SYD
TN 2 weekly 789


Will be interesting to see if SQ keep AKL as a359s once passenger flights resume fully? Both CHC/AKL seem to be both getting them currently.

MH has been using the a359 to AKL recently, hopefully it stays that way once we reopen.

Also would be interested to see if CI re adds the BNE stop next year. It used to be an great way to get to BNE for $400 in J.
 
NZ516
Posts: 869
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:51 pm

tealnz wrote:
Can anyone tell us how many 77Ws NZ still has on the books? It’s not just the three parked in Auckland, presumably. And surely they would want more than three to maintain a viable fleet if they decide to bring them back into service.


I read somewhere that 6 of the 77W fleet will come back, so not sure which one is not might be the oldest ZKOKM.
 
NZ516
Posts: 869
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:45 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
Kiwings wrote:
So if the international borders open in early 2021 to NZ passport holders/residents and I am hearing 31JAN could be the date, what airlines are going to restart what services and with what aircraft. Be interesting to see what markets bounce back quicker than others. Let's see who is the best forecaster ?



Hard to say I think but some of the smaller secondry Chinese carriers I wouldn’t see returning. Most others I would see returning with lower frequency smaller aircraft in some cases. I’ll give some rough guesstimates but that is all they are if we use Jan 31st as a date. Some haven’t stopped but have changed aircraft types etc. not expecting to see AA until Oct 2022, Or UA who have the PW 772 fleet still grounded currently until those are flying again.

SQ 10 weekly 77W
CX daily 359
MH 5 weekly A332
KE 4 weekly 789
TG 4 weekly 359
EK daily 77W via KUL
QR 3 weekly 77W via BNE
CA 4 weekly 789
CZ 10 weekly 789
MU daily A332
CI 4 weekly A359 TPE non stop
PR 2 weekly A333 MNL non stop
HA 3 weekly A332
LA 3 weekly 789 SCL-AKL-SYD
TN 2 weekly 789


This is a lot of capacity to be brought back in. Not sure if it will be this much services. Especially if arrivals still need MIQ.
I expect QF, JQ and FJ will return one day as well.
How much flying will NZ do? it will take time before it ramps up. Many routes won't return due to much smaller fleet and frequencies will be down.
I expect no more 787 flying out of CHC eg the SIN and PER routes won't be back just not enough aircraft to go round.
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 5756
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:51 pm

NZ516 wrote:
tealnz wrote:
Can anyone tell us how many 77Ws NZ still has on the books? It’s not just the three parked in Auckland, presumably. And surely they would want more than three to maintain a viable fleet if they decide to bring them back into service.


I read somewhere that 6 of the 77W fleet will come back, so not sure which one is not might be the oldest ZKOKM.

OKO, OKR, and OKS are leased, so depending on the terms of the leases, it may be from among those that one or more doesn't return. The former is in AKL, the latter two are at VCV. Of the owned frames, OKN and OKQ are in AKL, OKM and OKP are in VCV. Given the volatility of the situation at the moment, I wouldn't be surprised if there is more than one plan in the pipeline, contingent on a number of different market conditions for 2022 and beyond.

V/F
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4651
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:34 pm

6x 77W to come back is the plan. The 7th frame I would be surprised if they don’t also bring that back. Remembering of course that while NZ has dropped some routes, they’ve also dropped 8x 77E (and the extra leased 77W). So 9x big aircraft.
The other factors to consider is that lease costs for 77W have collapsed and they can lift more payload than a 789.
 
User avatar
V60Polestar
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:08 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:35 pm

zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Kiwings wrote:
So if the international borders open in early 2021 to NZ passport holders/residents and I am hearing 31JAN could be the date, what airlines are going to restart what services and with what aircraft. Be interesting to see what markets bounce back quicker than others. Let's see who is the best forecaster ?



Hard to say I think but some of the smaller secondry Chinese carriers I wouldn’t see returning. Most others I would see returning with lower frequency smaller aircraft in some cases. I’ll give some rough guesstimates but that is all they are if we use Jan 31st as a date. Some haven’t stopped but have changed aircraft types etc. not expecting to see AA until Oct 2022, Or UA who have the PW 772 fleet still grounded currently until those are flying again.

SQ 10 weekly 77W
CX daily 359
MH 5 weekly A332
KE 4 weekly 789
TG 4 weekly 359
EK daily 77W via KUL
QR 3 weekly 77W via BNE
CA 4 weekly 789
CZ 10 weekly 789
MU daily A332
CI 4 weekly A359 TPE non stop
PR 2 weekly A333 MNL non stop
HA 3 weekly A332
LA 3 weekly 789 SCL-AKL-SYD
TN 2 weekly 789


Will be interesting to see if SQ keep AKL as a359s once passenger flights resume fully? Both CHC/AKL seem to be both getting them currently.

MH has been using the a359 to AKL recently, hopefully it stays that way once we reopen.

Also would be interested to see if CI re adds the BNE stop next year. It used to be an great way to get to BNE for $400 in J.


Malaysia Airlines had planned to begin operating A350s here around 2019, but this never happened for one reason or another. I wouldn't take it to be too far fetched.
 
User avatar
Kiwings
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:01 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - November 2021

Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:36 am

Jetstar getting ready for an FEB restart.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/tra ... RA5GDYRG4/

I would have thought the initial demand will be very much VFR traffic, so the likes of TG MH and even SQ and CX could be scratching for passengers. SQ and CX have been relying on the cargo subsidy - what happens when the Govt. Pulls the plug on that. So maybe airlines like KE, CI and PR will see better uptake initially.
Not sure the PRC carriers will see big uptake at the start.
Will be interesting to see what happens.

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