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ANA787
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Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:39 pm

 
Clipper73
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:45 pm

 
Alias1024
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:07 pm

I’m surprised DTW hadn’t happened years ago, given the sizable middle-eastern population in metro Detroit.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:18 pm

Was always surprised TK didn’t have SEA, more competition for EK after QR added. But with Cathay not coming back, it may work.
 
FCOTSTW
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:25 pm

Happy to hear it. That means a good push and shove to DL' s overpriced fare for the DTW-Europe O/D market.

TK is a leader in a good relationship between price and quality of its Y and C products.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:31 pm

Having flown Turkish, I can say their international offering beats US domestic carriers. At least it did prior to the pandemic. Seattle and Detroit are good markets for entry. I expect Delta to fight hard, but the rates are going to be incredible in DTW and Seattle for awhile.


The competition into India and the Middle East will work well for DTW and Seattle, but I wonder how this shakes out going forward for Emirates, Turkish, and Eithad. They all want to be the crossroads on the Spice Road for Airlines.
 
ATLgaUSA
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:57 pm

Hasn't Turkish announced a number of US cities that it never started service to? I seem to recall Atlanta and Denver announcements in the past few years that never panned out. Seems like there were more, but I don't recall which cities they were.
 
FLYKTPA
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:05 pm

ATLgaUSA wrote:
Hasn't Turkish announced a number of US cities that it never started service to? I seem to recall Atlanta and Denver announcements in the past few years that never panned out. Seems like there were more, but I don't recall which cities they were.



Denver was announced in June along with Dallas. ATL has been operating for a few years now… it’s on its way to ATL rn.
 
emre787
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:10 pm

ATLgaUSA wrote:
Hasn't Turkish announced a number of US cities that it never started service to? I seem to recall Atlanta and Denver announcements in the past few years that never panned out. Seems like there were more, but I don't recall which cities they were.


No. They're serving Atlanta for several years already, right now 5x weekly with 787-9s. Denver was just announced end of June alongside Dallas. With Dallas already being launched lately, we're not far away from seeing their Denver flights
 
Blerg
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:14 pm

I remember looking at some flights on TK from Europe to the US and they had some code-share options with Alaska. I guess they will have a wide raging agreement with them out of SEA as well. This route can perform really well for them.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:49 pm

Great news for DTW, competition for European connections is badly needed.
 
ATLgaUSA
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:57 pm

emre787 wrote:
ATLgaUSA wrote:
Hasn't Turkish announced a number of US cities that it never started service to? I seem to recall Atlanta and Denver announcements in the past few years that never panned out. Seems like there were more, but I don't recall which cities they were.


No. They're serving Atlanta for several years already, right now 5x weekly with 787-9s. Denver was just announced end of June alongside Dallas. With Dallas already being launched lately, we're not far away from seeing their Denver flights

I stand corrected!
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:14 pm

DTW has been a gaping hole in TK's network for a long time. Glad to see them finally show up!

DEN is actually the one that made the least sense to me of the recent announcements because the O&D isnt that large to that part of the world and UA/TK dont interline very well together.

DFW and SEA have a lot of competition by the markets are big so it makes it easier.

DTW is the slam dunk of all of them though.
 
johns624
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:39 pm

FCOTSTW wrote:
Happy to hear it. That means a good push and shove to DL' s overpriced fare for the DTW-Europe O/D market.

TK is a leader in a good relationship between price and quality of its Y and C products.
It depends. They'll be great for ME and South Asian flights but for most of Europe, it's a large backtrack. AMS and CDG are much better positioned.
 
x1234
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:40 pm

This will finally put pressure on DL/SkyTeam to lower fares to Europe. Also TK is a better fit for the Middle Eastern population in Metro Detroit which mainly are from Lebanon/Syria/Yemen, etc.
 
N292UX
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:51 pm

Surprised SEA hadn't been launched yet. DTW will be a hit too.

That's a pretty big US network for TK now. I believe they serve JFK/EWR/IAD/BOS/LAX/ORD/IAH/SFO/MIA/ATL/DFW/SEA/DTW now. That's a pretty impressive portfolio of routes. Hard to tell where TK would go next in the US but I doubt it won't be for a while now.
 
EBiafore99
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:56 pm

Given TK's hub location, I question the impact on European travel. IMO, the bigger question for DTW will be the impact on RJ's service to Amman. I'm not sure there's enough room for two airlines serving Detroit's middle-eastern population.

Before the pandemic, RJ was serving DTW 3x weekly non-stop during the summer and 2x weekly 1-stop YUL for the remainder of the year (with adjustments during the holidays). If TK provides 3x weekly non-stop service the entire year, I cannot see RJ's service surviving. That's pretty much doubling capacity. I hope I am wrong.
 
johns624
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:12 pm

x1234 wrote:
This will finally put pressure on DL/SkyTeam to lower fares to Europe. Also TK is a better fit for the Middle Eastern population in Metro Detroit which mainly are from Lebanon/Syria/Yemen, etc.
Not many from Syria but quite a few from Iraq (mainly Chaldeans). You're right about Yemen and Lebanon, though.
The Lebanese were the first wave, Chaldeans second, and Yemenis the third.
 
subramak1
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:29 pm

I dont think TK will depend on Traffic to India. They are restricted to serving only BOM and DEL and will not get rights to other cities. To Pakistan may be, but it is a smaller market from SEA than say from Dallas/Houston/Phoenix
 
jmscsc
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:26 pm

I'll be curious to see if DL responds to this, if at all. I'm happy to see some variety at DTW. Right now I think the only foreign carriers are AF and RJ. BA left a few years ago. I'm not sure if AM is still around.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:31 pm

FCOTSTW wrote:
Happy to hear it. That means a good push and shove to DL' s overpriced fare for the DTW-Europe O/D market.

.

Only for passengers who value their time so little they are willing to overfly their destinations by hours. Delta isn't chasing those passengers, anyway.

Start the countdown to Royal Jordanian's exit from DTW.
 
Clipper73
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:49 pm

EBiafore99 wrote:
Given TK's hub location, I question the impact on European travel. IMO, the bigger question for DTW will be the impact on RJ's service to Amman. I'm not sure there's enough room for two airlines serving Detroit's middle-eastern population.

Before the pandemic, RJ was serving DTW 3x weekly non-stop during the summer and 2x weekly 1-stop YUL for the remainder of the year (with adjustments during the holidays). If TK provides 3x weekly non-stop service the entire year, I cannot see RJ's service surviving. That's pretty much doubling capacity. I hope I am wrong.


I think TK will be a good option for former Eastern block European countries with price sensitive customers. For them it will not be to large of an inconvenience to back track for a good price.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:16 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Only for passengers who value their time so little they are willing to overfly their destinations by hours.


Not necessarily - it depends on where those passengers are traveling to/from. No doubt TK will pick-up a significant amount of traffic to India, much of which is extremely price sensitive and will make the journey to Chicago and Toronto.

Delta isn't chasing those passengers, anyway.

Start the countdown to Royal Jordanian's exit from DTW.


I agree with both points, although RJ has been hanging on by a thread, anyway -- quite frankly, I'm surprised they didn't end service during the pandemic.
 
YYZORD
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:17 pm

TK adding SEA is a bad idea with them already serving YVR, easy connections to SEA thru AC.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:19 pm

YYZORD wrote:
TK adding SEA is a bad idea with them already serving YVR, easy connections to SEA thru AC.


SEA is a large enough market to support TK, its not as if there are tons of people in SEA driving up to YVR to catch the flight. That's like saying DL shouldn't serve PDX-ICN/HND because DL serves them from SEA - if the market is there, it makes sense.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:37 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
TK adding SEA is a bad idea with them already serving YVR, easy connections to SEA thru AC.


SEA is a large enough market to support TK, its not as if there are tons of people in SEA driving up to YVR to catch the flight. That's like saying DL shouldn't serve PDX-ICN/HND because DL serves them from SEA - if the market is there, it makes sense.


That has in fact been stated before. It seems to be an A.net fallacy if an airline serves another destination in the same time zone, they shouldn’t serve the new city. People have seriously stated that since CVG is so close to DTW , DL shouldn’t fly CVG-CDG. Same with LAX/SAN, SEA/PDX, SEA/YVR and other large cities.

That’s because everyone would rather drive 3-10 hours or take a connecting flight than have a non-stop from the nearest airport.
 
YYZORD
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:53 pm

I'm just referring to how CX failed at SEA, a lot of people think its covid alone but it was also the fact CX served YVR 2x daily and the connections through AS and preclearance were all reasons.

jbs2886 wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
TK adding SEA is a bad idea with them already serving YVR, easy connections to SEA thru AC.


SEA is a large enough market to support TK, its not as if there are tons of people in SEA driving up to YVR to catch the flight. That's like saying DL shouldn't serve PDX-ICN/HND because DL serves them from SEA - if the market is there, it makes sense.
 
FSDan
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:03 am

I've been thinking DTW made sense for TK for years - glad to see them finally intent on launching it! As others have said, they're probably the most logical airline to handle one-stop itineraries for DTW's large Middle-Eastern population, and they should be able to pick up some traffic to South Asia and Eastern Europe (ATH and the Balkans, for instance) as well, not to mention any traffic that exists to Central Asia and North/East Africa. An A330-200 3x-4x weekly would be a conservative start, but we'll see what they do.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:54 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
and UA/TK dont interline very well together.

UA and TK have plenty of interline.

What they don't do much of is codeshare. The two aren't the same thing.



MIflyer12 wrote:
Only for passengers who value their time so little they are willing to overfly their destinations by hours. Delta isn't chasing those passengers, anyway.

Depends on the part of Europe. TK serves southern Europe and the blocs very well, without all that much overflight.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:12 am

jmscsc wrote:
I'm happy to see some variety at DTW. Right now I think the only foreign carriers are AF and RJ. BA left a few years ago. I'm not sure if AM is still around.

LH is a regular at DTW, although not sure if service has been affected currently due to Covid.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:14 am

YYZORD wrote:
I'm just referring to how CX failed at SEA, a lot of people think its covid alone but it was also the fact CX served YVR 2x daily and the connections through AS and preclearance were all reasons.

jbs2886 wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
TK adding SEA is a bad idea with them already serving YVR, easy connections to SEA thru AC.


SEA is a large enough market to support TK, its not as if there are tons of people in SEA driving up to YVR to catch the flight. That's like saying DL shouldn't serve PDX-ICN/HND because DL serves them from SEA - if the market is there, it makes sense.


Please provide evidence to support that YVR impacted the “failure” of SEA.
 
Rookinla
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:17 am

LAX772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
and UA/TK dont interline very well together.

UA and TK have plenty of interline. What they don't do much of is codeshare. The two aren't the same thing.

What laxdude is saying is completely correct. They are both Star Alliance carriers so they of course do hypothetically interline. No, they don’t codeshare very often. Their itineraries more often than not do not price together, even though they are within alliance. So then you have to price the itineraries separately. When you do that the bags do not interline and you have to re-check in with your bags at the next carrier. And laxdude and I are in the industry. We both know how well UA and TK work together, and that is poorly at best. UA/TK works only slightly better than UA/SQ which is known to be the weakest partnership within Star Alliance.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:20 am

LAX772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
and UA/TK dont interline very well together.

UA and TK have plenty of interline.

What they don't do much of is codeshare. The two aren't the same thing.



I’m well aware of what the difference is between the two and I’ll say it again: the two don’t interline well. Getting UA and TK segments to price together is very hit or miss. What I’m referring to is domestic UA to international TK.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:27 am

Rookinla wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
and UA/TK dont interline very well together.

UA and TK have plenty of interline. What they don't do much of is codeshare. The two aren't the same thing.

What laxdude is saying is completely correct. They are both Star Alliance carriers so they of course do hypothetically interline. No, they don’t codeshare very often. Their itineraries more often than not do not price together, even though they are within alliance. So then you have to price the itineraries separately. When you do that the bags do not interline and you have to re-check in with your bags at the next carrier. And laxdude and I are in the industry. We both know how well UA and TK work together, and that is poorly at best. UA/TK works only slightly better than UA/SQ which is known to be the weakest partnership within Star Alliance.


There’s reason for that IMO.

TK and LH are not friends as they compete for much of the same traffic. UA and TK also compete for some of the same traffic. UA and LH are the best of friends.

It’s a tangled web.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:39 am

This TK flight to DTW is not only going to benefit the Middle East, India, and East Africa travelers but those going to places like OTP, SOF, & ATH as well.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:56 am

jbs2886 wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
I'm just referring to how CX failed at SEA, a lot of people think its covid alone but it was also the fact CX served YVR 2x daily and the connections through AS and preclearance were all reasons.

jbs2886 wrote:

SEA is a large enough market to support TK, its not as if there are tons of people in SEA driving up to YVR to catch the flight. That's like saying DL shouldn't serve PDX-ICN/HND because DL serves them from SEA - if the market is there, it makes sense.


Please provide evidence to support that YVR impacted the “failure” of SEA.


I think it was more of the timing of the flights. The schedule for HKG-SEA was too late in the evening to really connect to a lot of destinations and restricted the connections to the west of the Rockies, more or less.

I actually think CX will eventually return to SEA because of AS being part of OneWorld.

I'm guessing TK will start SEA with either 789 or A359.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:27 am

jbs2886 wrote:
Was always surprised TK didn’t have SEA, more competition for EK after QR added. But with Cathay not coming back, it may work.


How does Cathay impact Turkish in SEA? Mumbai, Delhi and Colombo are the only realistic connections where I would think a person would consider flying via either HKG or IST.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:30 am

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Was always surprised TK didn’t have SEA, more competition for EK after QR added. But with Cathay not coming back, it may work.


How does Cathay impact Turkish in SEA? Mumbai, Delhi and Colombo are the only realistic connections where I would think a person would consider flying via either HKG or IST.


Based on CX's and Hong Kong's issues, I don't see CX coming back really soon. But I hope they will come back eventually.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:59 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
and I’ll say it again: the two don’t interline well. Getting UA and TK segments to price together is very hit or miss.

No idea what "interline well," is supposed to mean, or what problems you're having that can't be overcome with a simple phone call with flight numbers in hand.

I mean, can understand if it's annoying and time consuming: but heck, that describes a number of inter-alliance itineraries. AA-CX/QR are notorious for that. So hardly anything atypical for UA/TK, if that's what you mean.


flymco753 wrote:
This TK flight to DTW is not only going to benefit the Middle East, India, and East Africa travelers but those going to places like OTP, SOF, & ATH as well.

Why not? It can do both.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:19 am

[twoid][/twoid]
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Was always surprised TK didn’t have SEA, more competition for EK after QR added. But with Cathay not coming back, it may work.


How does Cathay impact Turkish in SEA? Mumbai, Delhi and Colombo are the only realistic connections where I would think a person would consider flying via either HKG or IST.


India in general is a significant market from SEA, hence AA’s BLR flight. Cathay had more than just BOM and DLH.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:22 am

LAX772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
and I’ll say it again: the two don’t interline well. Getting UA and TK segments to price together is very hit or miss.

No idea what "interline well," is supposed to mean, or what problems you're having that can't be overcome with a simple phone call with flight numbers in hand.
.


It means that UA and TK segments often dont price out in the GDS. Its not something a phone call can fix. If they dont price out in GDS, nobody can do anything about it.
 
Blerg
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:58 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Rookinla wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:

UA and TK have plenty of interline. What they don't do much of is codeshare. The two aren't the same thing.

What laxdude is saying is completely correct. They are both Star Alliance carriers so they of course do hypothetically interline. No, they don’t codeshare very often. Their itineraries more often than not do not price together, even though they are within alliance. So then you have to price the itineraries separately. When you do that the bags do not interline and you have to re-check in with your bags at the next carrier. And laxdude and I are in the industry. We both know how well UA and TK work together, and that is poorly at best. UA/TK works only slightly better than UA/SQ which is known to be the weakest partnership within Star Alliance.


There’s reason for that IMO.

TK and LH are not friends as they compete for much of the same traffic. UA and TK also compete for some of the same traffic. UA and LH are the best of friends.

It’s a tangled web.


Lufthansa suspended their code-share with TK some years ago when TK butchered LH Group on flights from Istanbul to Germany, Switzerland and Austria. Honestly, don't know what they were expecting. For example in Vienna, you get TK which regularly sends the A330, offers a full service and gives you two pieces of luggage at no extra cost. Then on the other hand, you have Austrian Airlines which flies mostly old A320s, has rude crew, charges for luggage and has minimal onboard product (back then before they went the LCC way). Both airlines charge about the same so which one would you chose?

Since they couldn't compete with them they decided to limit their partnership. I think OS and LX suspended IST while LH only flies from FRA. UA relies heavily on LH in Europe so that is why they have limited interaction with airlines such as LO and TK. Honestly, at this point, I don't even know why TK stays in Star Alliance. I think someone like oneworld would love to have them and I think AA might be a better partner for them.
 
Blerg
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:09 am

LAX772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
and I’ll say it again: the two don’t interline well. Getting UA and TK segments to price together is very hit or miss.

No idea what "interline well," is supposed to mean, or what problems you're having that can't be overcome with a simple phone call with flight numbers in hand.

I mean, can understand if it's annoying and time consuming: but heck, that describes a number of inter-alliance itineraries. AA-CX/QR are notorious for that. So hardly anything atypical for UA/TK, if that's what you mean.


flymco753 wrote:
This TK flight to DTW is not only going to benefit the Middle East, India, and East Africa travelers but those going to places like OTP, SOF, & ATH as well.

Why not? It can do both.


I understand what he means by that. I fly to the US at least two times per year and I start my journey from BEG. Since covid I had to get creative to bypass the EU so that I could enter the US without problems. I always check TK despite booking with them only once in this period. However, every time I checked their website, most convenient connections were either with Alaska or jetBlue. United was offered only if I chose to fly via ORD, no options were given via IAD and very few via LAX or SFO. I guess this comes down to TK having better communication with AS and B6 than they do with UA.

About two months ago I flew LAS-LAX-IST-BEG on UA and TK, booked via tk.com.
UA refused to issue my ticket all the way to Belgrade and I had to collect my luggage and check in again in LAX despite having a 90 minute connection. Atrocious experience especially since I had to run from one end of LAX to the other.
Going there I flew BEG-IST-BOS-LAS with the last segment being on B6, I got my boarding pass in BEG and everything worked perfectly well. No issues whatsoever. Not to mention that B6 is a much better partner for TK than UA is ... in terms of their quality of service that is.
 
Clipper73
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:04 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
FCOTSTW wrote:
Happy to hear it. That means a good push and shove to DL' s overpriced fare for the DTW-Europe O/D market.

.

Only for passengers who value their time so little they are willing to overfly their destinations by hours. Delta isn't chasing those passengers, anyway.

Start the countdown to Royal Jordanian's exit from DTW.


RJ is more about O/D traffic where TK will be more about onward connections form IST. I think they can both coexist in the market as RJ seems to be doing pretty good at DTW. They have been operating pretty much the entire time since the pandemic started. They started flying into DTW again in December uninterrupted 2 weekly as they always have and they have been in Detroit almost 30 years now.
 
johns624
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:32 am

LAX772LR wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
This TK flight to DTW is not only going to benefit the Middle East, India, and East Africa travelers but those going to places like OTP, SOF, & ATH as well.

Why not? It can do both.
That's what he said.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:00 pm

Congratulations to TK and Seattle.
I lived in Seattle in the 90's, never in my wildest dreams I would have guessed TK to fly there non-stop.
I used to take DL, BA, SAS between SEA-IST.
In "Turkish Aviation" thread, I predict TK has not a whole lot of cities left to serve in the US, except maybe Orlando, Phoenix, Las Vegas and maybe Charlotte.
Seattle might be a 789 route, DTW might start as A332-3, IMHO.
 
BB78710
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Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:50 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
There’s reason for that IMO.

TK and LH are not friends as they compete for much of the same traffic. UA and TK also compete for some of the same traffic. UA and LH are the best of friends.

It’s a tangled web.



First congratulations to Turkish DTW and SEA hopefully they both do well.

However I do have questions how much Western European traffic is UA and TK competing for from the US? How many people overfly the majority of Western Europe to land at IST only to turn back and fly to CDG just as an example? United doesn't serve a whole lot of destinations in Eastern Europe, they don't fly to any destinations in Northern Africa and only serve 4 destinations on the entire continent, for now their Middle East presence is limited to just TLV with plans to launch AMM, United does not fly to Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan but they do service India nonstop from the US. Where is the competition at between these two carriers from the US.
Throw LH in the mix and it becomes clear the LH group and TK do compete for US connecting traffic on a ton of routes to Eastern Europe, Western Asia, even though the Middle East is part of Asia lets just say the Middle East, I also will separate out India and Pakistan, and then there is Africa.

I think United's lack of any real partnership with Turkish has more to do with United's JV with Lufthansa than it has to do with United competing with Turkish for the same traffic. In my opinion I think United is missing an opportunity with Turkish because of their loyalty to the LH group and their JV. Although TK would never be allowed into the AC/LH/UA joint venture if United were to partner up with TK through codeshares they could presumably persevere their JV but increase the size and reach of their network benefiting United customers even more.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2465
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:21 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
TK adding SEA is a bad idea with them already serving YVR, easy connections to SEA thru AC.


SEA is a large enough market to support TK, its not as if there are tons of people in SEA driving up to YVR to catch the flight. That's like saying DL shouldn't serve PDX-ICN/HND because DL serves them from SEA - if the market is there, it makes sense.


That has in fact been stated before. It seems to be an A.net fallacy if an airline serves another destination in the same time zone, they shouldn’t serve the new city. People have seriously stated that since CVG is so close to DTW , DL shouldn’t fly CVG-CDG. Same with LAX/SAN, SEA/PDX, SEA/YVR and other large cities.

That’s because everyone would rather drive 3-10 hours or take a connecting flight than have a non-stop from the nearest airport.


Its a very common Canadian fallacy - an inevitable consequence of the Canadian embrace of the regressive “supply management” mentality, which dictates that prices and quantity should be set by suppliers, consumers need to accept whatever prices suppliers demand to prop them up, and that competition/consumer choice is, on aggregate, bad, because it doesn’t suit Canadian suppliers.

The silliness in the argument will inevitably manifest itself in the following way:

- TK will remain restricted to 3 weekly at YVR for many, many years to come (in keeping with 1970s era supply management mentality). Can’t see them being permitted to go daily for another 15 years.
- TK will go daily to SEA around 13-15 years before that.
- Given Canada’s immigration rate (~1M every 3 years), with a good chunk coming from east of Turkey, it’s only a matter of time before YVR pax start flying TK ex-SEA (driving/connecting by air) - rather than the other way around.

The absurdity of this notion that [email protected] can or should cater to SEA pax is amplified by the fact that TK will soon be 7 weekly ex-SEA and 12 weekly ex-(all of)Canada.
 
acavpics
Posts: 631
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:54 am

Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:40 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
and UA/TK dont interline very well together.

UA and TK have plenty of interline.

What they don't do much of is codeshare. The two aren't the same thing.

.

Even if they did codeshare, it wouldn't be very useful for passengers arriving in the US on TK because TK's US arrivals are usually in the late evening. Heck, their EWR flight arrives close to midnight. There isn't much time for those passengers to make connections onto UA flights unless they want to wait overnight.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6631
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Turkish Airlines to start Seattle and Detroit

Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:00 pm

acavpics wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
and UA/TK dont interline very well together.

UA and TK have plenty of interline.

What they don't do much of is codeshare. The two aren't the same thing.

.

Even if they did codeshare, it wouldn't be very useful for passengers arriving in the US on TK because TK's US arrivals are usually in the late evening. Heck, their EWR flight arrives close to midnight. There isn't much time for those passengers to make connections onto UA flights unless they want to wait overnight.


This is at the heart of why DEN-IST hasnt been scheduled even though it was announced. DEN's value to TK would be for connections not the local DEN market. Of course DEN has significant O&D to Western Europe, but not to the Middle East, South Asia, or Africa. If the connections and interlines arent smooth, that eliminates a lot of the value DEN provides.

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