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MohawkWeekend
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Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 4:48 pm

Now that the bill will move forward, does anyone know how the airport funds ($25B) will be distributed?

All I've seen in numbers for NYC airports.
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:00 pm

Do not expect too much physical changed
Each airport can get only a few million dollar which is only enough for little Computer/security/airfield/road traffic upgrade
 
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cosyr
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:00 pm

Will there ever be just a list? I know that part of the bill past is for new infrastructure projects, and part is funding for already approved projects. Also, I assume some will go to the FAA for ATC?
 
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adamblang
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:16 pm

This bill is 2740 pages long but here's what I've found from its text on congress.gov:
  • $2,480,000,000 shall be available for primary airports as defined in section 47102(16) of title 49, United States Code, and certain cargo airport
  • $500,000,000 shall be for general aviation and commercial service airports that are not primary airports
  • $20,000,000 for the Secretary of Transportation to make competitive grants to sponsors of airports participating in the contract tower program and the contract tower cost share program ... to sustain, construct, repair, improve, rehabilitate, modernize, replace or relocate nonapproach control towers; acquire and install air traffic control, communications, and related equipment to be used in those towers; and construct a remote tower certified by the Federal Aviation Administration, including acquisition and installation of air traffic control, communications, or related equipment
  • $5,000,000,000 ... for the Secretary of Transportation to provide competitive grants for airport terminal development projects that address the aging infrastructure of the nation's airports

Obviously this doesn't add up to $25,000,000,000 so there's more to be found in the text of the bill. But again 2740 pages.

A lot of this looks like appropriation to the Department of Transportation to run through the grant making process rather than specific earmarks for specific pet projects. (Which is good.)

I'm sure some journalists somewhere are getting paid to parse the language of the legislation and give us a more thorough reporting. :smile:
 
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adamblang
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:21 pm

Here's a summary from Aviation International News after the Senate passed the bill and sent it to the House:

Of note for aviation is the $25 billion in additional investment in aviation, including $5 billion that would be available for the FAA’s facilities and equipment expenses. The bill would allocate about $1 billion per year from fiscal 2022 through 2026 for air traffic control and tower equipment.

Another $15 billion is available for airport infrastructure grants through 2030, but initially allocated over a five-period. The legislation would set aside $500 million each year over the five-year period for non-primary and general aviation airports and another $20 million for the contract tower program. On top of the $15 billion is an additional $5 billion specifically for airport terminal projects. Up to 10 percent of that could be allocated to non-primary airports.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:26 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
Do not expect too much physical changed
Each airport can get only a few million dollar which is only enough for little Computer/security/airfield/road traffic upgrade



$15 Billion buys a lot more than a few laptops.

adamblang wrote:
Here's a summary from Aviation International News after the Senate passed the bill and sent it to the House:

Another $15 billion is available for airport infrastructure grants through 2030, but initially allocated over a five-period.
 
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DBCoop3r
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:28 pm

It appears there are dedicated funds for specific airports (I've read one article stating SEA gets $228M dedicated, for example) and then there are grants that each airport can compete for each year on top of that. Which could help some much needed terminal improvement projects get off the ground across the country.
 
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adamblang
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:34 pm

DBCoop3r wrote:
It appears there are dedicated funds for specific airports (I've read one article stating SEA gets $228M dedicated, for example) and then there are grants that each airport can compete for each year on top of that. Which could help some much needed terminal improvement projects get off the ground across the country.

I assume that's in reference to this KING 5 News article:

Seattle-Tacoma International Airport is projected to get $228 million for improvements. Snohomish County's Paine Field will expect $16 million, and Boeing Field/King County International will expect $6.8 million.


I can't find any reference to Seattle, SEA, or Washington state in the text of the bill. I wonder if the "projected to get" is lawmakers saying "we have these things to propose that we think will qualify under the rules of the appropriations and expect to be awarded the money."
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:50 pm

I would assume it is pensions and payouts to existing government workers.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 6:07 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
$15 Billion buys a lot more than a few laptops.


$15bil for the next 8-years for U.S airports is a really tiny drop in the bucket for massive nation like the U.S.

For cost comparison, building merely two parking structures along with the automated people mover at LAX comes in at $5.5 billion.
 
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STT757
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 6:46 pm

 
freakyrat
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 6:55 pm

I know that SBN is in the middle of a 5yr 30 million dollar taxiway and ramp rebuild some of which was mandated by the FAA and EPA. This includes a separate drive through deice pad. Some of this money could speed the project along.
 
bomber996
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:15 pm

Personally I am quite interested to see how the $5b allocated for FAA ATC facilities is spent. I can tell you some of the ARTCCs need some work. Bring out the popcorn.

Peace :box:
 
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DBCoop3r
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:58 pm

LAXintl wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
$15 Billion buys a lot more than a few laptops.


$15bil for the next 8-years for U.S airports is a really tiny drop in the bucket for massive nation like the U.S.

For cost comparison, building merely two parking structures along with the automated people mover at LAX comes in at $5.5 billion.

It's not about fully funding a few projects. These are grants that help make projects pencil out by putting a nice down-payment on a bond issuance. $15B can provide a lot of projects the 10% or 15% coverage they may need to get the bond issued.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:21 pm

bomber996 wrote:
Personally I am quite interested to see how the $5b allocated for FAA ATC facilities is spent. I can tell you some of the ARTCCs need some work. Bring out the popcorn.

Peace :box:

I think we all are interested in seeing how this pans out. Every ARTCC is approaching 60 years old. I was told a few years ago that an ARTCC replacement was estimated between $300-400 million per building. That alone would consume the entire allocation and then some. Hell, I would settle for an expansion/renovation...hopefully something with a little less asbestos and preferably doesn't look like a corrugated shack. The problem is that there are some pretty dire needs across the system, and while $5b sounds like a lot of money, it doesn't go particularly far in the world of government projects and procurement. Putting money into ARTCCs would have the biggest impact, but the total price tag may be too high to account for other needs. Maybe we can just get some new carpet...one with fewer stains would be good. I've resigned myself to the fact that when I retire, my facility will effectively look just as dumpy as the day I started.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:41 pm

We put a man on the moon and can convert urine in to drinking water. Why the hell am I still taking my shoes, coats, and belt off and taking my ipad out of my bag at security? And no, I'm not PreCheck.
 
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UPlog
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:59 pm

Meh, $15bill for airports is not much when Airport Council North America says as of 2020 airports had $128bil in unfunded infrastructure needs, on top of approx $20bil in needs to simply maintain existing aging infrastructure.
They also estimate pandemic has caused airports approx $40bil in revenue losses through 2022 with a mere fraction of that made up in previous rounds of government aid.

Add in billions needed to update ATC and actually deliver NexGen (already old tech), not much money here at all.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:56 pm

I agree it's not nearly enough to have a meaningful impact. Should be probably 4 times that to cover ATC and airfield improvements.
Edit - I see from an earlier post that NY State expects to get around billion dollars (or 4% of the 25B). So is the funding based on population?
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:31 pm

I see NY State population is 20 million or about 6% of the US . So much for that theory.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Infrastructure Bill - Airports

Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:15 am

TWA772LR wrote:
We put a man on the moon and can convert urine in to drinking water. Why the hell am I still taking my shoes, coats, and belt off and taking my ipad out of my bag at security? And no, I'm not PreCheck.


Radiation is your answer ;)

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