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lightsaber
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Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:51 pm

https://www.wcnc.com/article/travel/sou ... d8e020418a
In a statement to WFAA, a spokesperson for the airline said the incident happened at Dallas Love Field airport. According to the spokesperson, a passenger was "verbally and physically assaulting" an employee before a flight to La Guardia airport.

...
“Since the pandemic began, we’ve been seeing an increase in flight attendant assaults," Paul Hartshorn Jr., national communications chair for the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, told WFAA in October. "We’ve been seeing verbal assaults on our flight attendants every day, it’s safe to say, and physical attacks increasing.”


It is my opinion we've created a culture where people feel no constraints on bad behaviour. Since aircraft must be a safe heaven, examples must be made. Of course try to talk people into a calm mindset, but this is getting ridiculous. No frontline employee is going to every day perfectly bring this into order.

People are losing are losing their common decency. It is getting to the point where people are elevating everything, often bringing in politics where no politics belong (and both sides are equally guilty, IMHO).

So what do we do?
We need to publicly state people are banned from flying. Since the employee was hospitalized, this should be for life with other airlines joining in.

The rules are known ahead of time. If you don't like them, do not buy a ticket.

Lightsaber

It wasn't that long ago a diversion due to an F/A assult:
https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/202 ... to-denver/
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:07 pm

Obedience to the Unenforceable again. Good manners, self-discipline and civility can’t be enforced, that have to inculcated.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:10 pm

Disgusting how common this nonsense is becoming. We're getting stories like this every other day.

Hope the FA has a speedy recovery.
 
kiowa
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:16 pm

Sounds like a lot of stressed out people. Very sad. Quick healing for the FA.
 
RJNUT
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:21 pm

I've though occasionally that now in my retirement i might go "throw bags or check people in" part time at the airport. for kicks and bring considerable expertise. These reports have cured me of such a notion. Im also liable to retaliate which is a big no-no. Leave well enough alone, its not the airline world of old,LOL!
 
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STT757
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:22 pm

We have a terrorism no fly list, add a new category to the list for disruptive passengers.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:30 pm

STT757 wrote:
We have a terrorism no fly list, add a new category to the list for disruptive passengers.


That’s like trying to inspect quality in rather than designing and building quality. You can’t force proper behavior, it has to indoctrinated at an early and we’ve failed miserably.
 
737Captain
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:03 pm

It is never acceptable to assault another person whether it be verbally or physically. I am flight crew and, as someone who has travelled over 200+ days a year even through the pandemic, I must say that in addition to a “rougher” crowd riding on the airlines I have also observed an alarming increase in FA’s and even some pilots being blatantly confrontational to otherwise compliant passengers. I have witnessed at least 2 incidents this week alone where crewmembers who have been unnecessarily aggressive and instigated incidents with passengers who were otherwise minding their own business and following the rules. I’m in no way defending criminal actions of any passenger but there is a systemic problem with many crewmember’s attitudes and a lack of training in de-escalation.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:05 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
STT757 wrote:
We have a terrorism no fly list, add a new category to the list for disruptive passengers.


That’s like trying to inspect quality in rather than designing and building quality. You can’t force proper behavior, it has to indoctrinated at an early and we’ve failed miserably.


That's very well said, thank you.

In the meantime, should we - and how can we - help flight attendants defend themselves?
 
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knope2001
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:11 pm

lightsaber wrote:
People are losing are losing their common decency. It is getting to the point where people are elevating everything, often bringing in politics where no politics belong (and both sides are equally guilty, IMHO).


The only "one side or the other" for things like this should be reasonable / lawful behavior on one side and obnoxious / illegal behavior on the other side. It should not matter a bit if the obnoxious / illegal cohort is politically split 50/50 or 60/40 or 90/10. I'd really like it if reporting broadly avoided getting into the specifics in cases like this -- the difference between "removed and arrested after a physical altercation with a flight attendant" versus "removed and arrested after a physical altercation with a flight attendant after refusing to wear a mask".

Unfortunately outrage and click bait make the world go round.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:12 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
STT757 wrote:
We have a terrorism no fly list, add a new category to the list for disruptive passengers.


That’s like trying to inspect quality in rather than designing and building quality. You can’t force proper behavior, it has to indoctrinated at an early and we’ve failed miserably.


If you put in place harsh punishments for those that do these things, it will eventually deter it.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:17 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
STT757 wrote:
We have a terrorism no fly list, add a new category to the list for disruptive passengers.


That’s like trying to inspect quality in rather than designing and building quality. You can’t force proper behavior, it has to indoctrinated at an early and we’ve failed miserably.


That's very well said, thank you.

In the meantime, should we - and how can we - help flight attendants defend themselves?


As the flight attendant cannot respond with physical force, and everyone is equating the offenders as terrorists, perhaps treating them the same way passengers would treat terrorists - dogpiling them and beating the snot out of them - is in order? I'm sure the first time it happened and made the news would be a good reminder to others to not go down that road.... ;)
 
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PITingres
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:21 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
STT757 wrote:
We have a terrorism no fly list, add a new category to the list for disruptive passengers.


That’s like trying to inspect quality in rather than designing and building quality. You can’t force proper behavior, it has to indoctrinated at an early and we’ve failed miserably.


If you put in place harsh punishments for those that do these things, it will eventually deter it.


Plausible, but false. Harsh penalties by themselves don't stop crime and never has. Just look at England in the first half of the 1800's, when children could be hanged for petty theft, and it hardly stopped it.

I do agree that suspensions and bans should be used as part of the answer, but that's really more along the lines of generating some better awareness that the behavior won't be tolerated. Unfortunately I think some of the answer is going to have to restrict some of the mass "news" and social media platforms, and that discussion goes OT very quickly.
 
NLINK
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:23 pm

zkojq wrote:
Disgusting how common this nonsense is becoming. We're getting stories like this every other day.

Hope the FA has a speedy recovery.


I hope the FA has a speedy recovery also.

Nonsense like this has been happening a long time in the airline industry. It is just now getting reported by mainstream news more and social media reports a lot of it. During my time I've seen employees stabbed, punched, hit with bags, had staplers thrown at people, knocked down and attempted to wait until his or her shift is over to follow them to the car. 99% of the time it was due to people missing flights, late check in and missing baggage and usually alcohol was involved. I've also seen employees defend themselves with the support of the carriers when this happens, espically after the 1999 attack on a CO gate agent in Newark where the person walked.
 
F27500
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:24 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

That’s like trying to inspect quality in rather than designing and building quality. You can’t force proper behavior, it has to indoctrinated at an early and we’ve failed miserably.


That's very well said, thank you.

In the meantime, should we - and how can we - help flight attendants defend themselves?


As the flight attendant cannot respond with physical force, and everyone is equating the offenders as terrorists, perhaps treating them the same way passengers would treat terrorists - dogpiling them and beating the snot out of them - is in order? I'm sure the first time it happened and made the news would be a good reminder to others to not go down that road.... ;)


If a FA (or anyone) is being physically attacked, they most certainly can and should respond with force. They have every right to defend themselves. For that matter, anyone (crew or other pax) has the right to step in and protect another human being attacked. I agree with you -- no mercy for an attacker like this.
 
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:30 pm

F27500 wrote:
If a FA (or anyone) is being physically attacked, they most certainly can and should respond with force. They have every right to defend themselves.


While I agree with you in theory, in practice, it's a great way to get let go by your employer.
 
rising
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:31 pm

United has the best practice for this, in my view. No confrontation policy, especially in the air. They simply hand the non-compliant person a card that says if they won't comply, they will be banned flying again and charged. I know this was on the ground, but its specially critical in the air. Absolutely no confrontation is allowed airborne. Probably why you don't hear much about this on United. Other airlines should follow. Would work on the ground too. Hand them the card. If nothing, just walk away, and have the police escort them off.

Non-compliance with federal law is inexcusable, and this person should be punished to the full extent possible, but there needs to be some deescalation from air crews. We should not be going to World War III on an airplane. They're not the police. Just walk away, and let the cops get rid of them.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:18 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
STT757 wrote:
We have a terrorism no fly list, add a new category to the list for disruptive passengers.


That’s like trying to inspect quality in rather than designing and building quality. You can’t force proper behavior, it has to indoctrinated at an early and we’ve failed miserably.


If you put in place harsh punishments for those that do these things, it will eventually deter it.


The record of criminal recidivism says you’re wrong. Now, if what your saying is true, how harsh is in mind? No fly lists won’t work for very infrequent VFR flyers, presumably they’ll go to another airline. Local cops have been found ineffective at prosecuting offenders. The US attorneys probably have bigger cases to pursue and would plea it out to probation.
 
F27500
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:58 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
F27500 wrote:
If a FA (or anyone) is being physically attacked, they most certainly can and should respond with force. They have every right to defend themselves.


While I agree with you in theory, in practice, it's a great way to get let go by your employer.


But yet FAs are allowed to tackle and duct tape/restrain beligerent pax to a seat .. so how would defending yourself against a physical assault be considered a firing offence? Especially when there were so many others witnessing what happened.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 8:06 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Local cops have been found ineffective at prosecuting offenders. The US attorneys probably have bigger cases to pursue and would plea it out to probation.


Local authorities lack the jurisdiction to prosecute. As I understand it once a flight departs the gate is under the jurisdiction of the feds. Hence why local authorities cant prosecute when an in-flight incident occurs,all they do is detain, write a report refer to the relevant federal law enforcement agency which currently defaults to the FBI. The incident in question will be prosecuted by the state of Texas as it occurred prior to the departure of the aircraft therefore state law applies.
 
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 8:17 pm

rising wrote:
United has the best practice for this, in my view. No confrontation policy, especially in the air. They simply hand the non-compliant person a card that says if they won't comply, they will be banned flying again and charged.


AS has a similar practice, where you receive a "yellow card" similar to in soccer, as a warning, and a repeat offender gets banned from flying AS, and all their downline/future flights are cancelled.
 
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 8:18 pm

F27500 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
F27500 wrote:
If a FA (or anyone) is being physically attacked, they most certainly can and should respond with force. They have every right to defend themselves.


While I agree with you in theory, in practice, it's a great way to get let go by your employer.


But yet FAs are allowed to tackle and duct tape/restrain beligerent pax to a seat .. so how would defending yourself against a physical assault be considered a firing offence? Especially when there were so many others witnessing what happened.


Again, I agree you should be able to defend yourself, but there are plenty of instances where airline employees who have been attacked and fought back were disciplined or discharged. Not saying I agree with it, but it has happened.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 8:23 pm

Res both misbehavior by passengers and crew members. We need an aviation judicial system, and complaints could be filed by any person feeling they were mistreated or have a claim. It does not do any of the parties concerned for resolution to be weeks or months later. Such an administrative law judges manage other such cases throughout the US, and for the most part we never see it in the news because the results are, excuse the phrase, judicial. Appeals are allowed, I think, but rare. Such an official could assess a no fly sentence for limited times. Not for life, that should be administered by a higher level court. probably anything longer than 6 months.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 8:30 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Local cops have been found ineffective at prosecuting offenders. The US attorneys probably have bigger cases to pursue and would plea it out to probation.


Local authorities lack the jurisdiction to prosecute. As I understand it once a flight departs the gate is under the jurisdiction of the feds. Hence why local authorities cant prosecute when an in-flight incident occurs,all they do is detain, write a report refer to the relevant federal law enforcement agency which currently defaults to the FBI. The incident in question will be prosecuted by the state of Texas as it occurred prior to the departure of the aircraft therefore state law applies.


Yes, you’re correct on the jurisdiction. I wonder how many of these cases actually result in serious fines collected or time served in a penitentiary? There’s little news to find.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 8:41 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Res both misbehavior by passengers and crew members. We need an aviation judicial system, and complaints could be filed by any person feeling they were mistreated or have a claim. It does not do any of the parties concerned for resolution to be weeks or months later. Such an administrative law judges manage other such cases throughout the US, and for the most part we never see it in the news because the results are, excuse the phrase, judicial. Appeals are allowed, I think, but rare. Such an official could assess a no fly sentence for limited times. Not for life, that should be administered by a higher level court. probably anything longer than 6 months.

Horrible idea. Anyone could file a complaint even if it’s a lie.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:04 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Horrible idea. Anyone could file a complaint even if it’s a lie.


Agree completely. The current judicial system is capable of handling these things just fine, as long as it isn't hijacked by DAs who refuse to prosecute "minor" offenses like this. Not a problem in Dallas.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:13 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The record of criminal recidivism says you’re wrong.


You're not wrong on the facts, but I disagree as to the implications. People are different. Some don't need to fear punishment to behave legally/civilly. Others (the recidivists) will regularly-behave in an illegal/antisocial way, regardless of awareness of consequences. A lot of people who don't fall into Category 1 are somewhere in the middle. They'll run a red light if they know there's no red light camera on the corner, but won't if they know it's there; but they still aren't going to punch somebody in public. As we have learned in NYC, when you make it clear you are not going to punish certain offenses, some people in the middle will feel license to commit those offenses, even if they might have been deterred by a remote possibility of being prosecuted for it. That's the population in which a lot of offenses spike -- people who will do stuff if you make it clear that there will be no consequences. And that's a reason to publicly-punish clear lawbreakers.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:16 pm

There is no system at present to handle these cases in a timely fashion. There are jurisdictional problems, over scheduled court systems, and these sorts of cases are very slowly resolved, if ever.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:26 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
There is no system at present to handle these cases in a timely fashion. There are jurisdictional problems, over scheduled court systems, and these sorts of cases are very slowly resolved, if ever.


With regard to in-flight incidents, all that has to happen is for the Attorney General to advise the U.S. Attorneys in every district that these cases should be prosecuted promptly and aggressively by experienced prosecutors, and to suggest a floor on acceptable pleas and to aggressively-oppose light bail requests. That is a matter of political will, but I don't think there would be a lot of pushback from the media or from legislators in either party.

Thinking creatively, I also believe that unions or other associations could create a fund to retain high-quality legal representation (as opposed to the next ambulance chaser) for the victim to file a civil action against the perpetrator. Unfortunately, one may often find that the perp is not asset-rich, but they might own a house, a car, have liability insurance, etc., and a judgment against them gives a victim a right to deliver ongoing consequences for decades, if there's a willing, compensated attorney to help.
Last edited by wjcandee on Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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WesternDC6B
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:31 pm

lightsaber wrote:
It is my opinion we've created a culture where people feel no constraints on bad behaviour. Since aircraft must be a safe heaven, examples must be made. Of course try to talk people into a calm mindset, but this is getting ridiculous. No frontline employee is going to every day perfectly bring this into order.

People are losing are losing their common decency. It is getting to the point where people are elevating everything, often bringing in politics where no politics belong (and both sides are equally guilty, IMHO).

Lightsaber



I am 72 years of age. In my lifetime, I have seen American society become one of slovenly dress; atrocious manners; crass, vulgar language; and a belligerence virtually unknown in the past. Worse, many now claim this or that of their demands as "rights".

People shopping in pajamas; men going out wearing wife-beaters instead of real shirts. Changing the name to "tank top" doesn't make it any less crass. It's an undershirt, guys!

The language coming out of peoples' mouths these days is enough to make the landlady of a dockside rooming house blush! And, it isn't just America, either.

I don't exactly dress like I go to Brooks Brothers, but at least I am in decent clothing for the circumstances. Language? I spent four years in the Navy; I know all the crude phrases one may have heard, and some one may haven't. Do I use them? No. I have no need. A chronically filthy mouth is the voice of a weak mind.

To those who believe being abusive or making threats to get what you want demand accomplishes anything, it does not. In one of my past lives. I did the internal help desk for a major phone company. When some shrieking C-suite ninny opened the conversation with "get my computer going again RIGHT NOW or I will have your [nether extremity] fired!!!" I took my time, got them going, and then went right to the next call. I also flagged the trouble call. When I was treated in a neutral, businesslike, or even nice manner, I went oUt of the way to get their issues resolved quickly.

It works the same with airline personnel. I speak from experience. I have a somewhat imposing "presence". Big, bushy, but neat beard; shoulders a friend described as each "being in separate postal codes"; and a voice and diction very well suited for broadcasting. I turn on my "grizzly-bear charm", and it works virtually every time, be it the possibility of getting away from bulkheads due to the size of my feet, or maybe something else.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:38 pm

wjcandee wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The record of criminal recidivism says you’re wrong.


You're not wrong on the facts, but I disagree as to the implications. People are different. Some don't need to fear punishment to behave legally/civilly. Others (the recidivists) will regularly-behave in an illegal/antisocial way, regardless of awareness of consequences. A lot of people who don't fall into Category 1 are somewhere in the middle. They'll run a red light if they know there's no red light camera on the corner, but won't if they know it's there; but they still aren't going to punch somebody in public. As we have learned in NYC, when you make it clear you are not going to punish certain offenses, some people in the middle will feel license to commit those offenses, even if they might have been deterred by a remote possibility of being prosecuted for it. That's the population in which a lot of offenses spike -- people who will do stuff if you make it clear that there will be no consequences. And that's a reason to publicly-punish clear lawbreakers.


I agree with you; the judgement call is whether these offenders fit into your Category 1 or 2. Do people really believe the possibility of punishment is real or something that will not happen or their lawyer will make go away. I’d bet most of these cases go away with light and unpublicized fines. The calculation is these cases are not treated seriously. Probably a mostly correct calculation.

Yes, incentives and swiftness of punishment matter. If people knew positively knew they’d be meet at the jetway and put in jail within days; these incidents would go away quickly. As it is, that isn’t happening.

I like the civil lawyer idea! Take their house away and sell at auction would wonders for some these clowns.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:45 pm

WesternDC6B: Bravo, Sir.

And I suspect that many of us here have received little accommodations from airline personnel (and people generally), by helping them shoulder the burden, if only for a moment, of dealing with the General Public.

One example of many. I'm flying LGA-ATL, and am in the gate area for a very-busy flight. I have to go to the podium (don't recall why, maybe trying to get on an earlier flight). I'm in line behind a very-entitled business passenger who is really giving it to the agent about an upgrade or the like. When he's finally done and it's my turn, I smile at her and say something funny at his expense, which he hears. He glares at me and stomps off. She handles my issue, remaining all-business, and I momentarily feel sad that maybe she didn't like my doing that. Then she leans forward and very-softly says, "When I hand this boarding pass to you, it's not a mistake. Be cool, okay?" Absolutely. "Here you go, Sir," she says loudly and cheerily, handing me the boarding pass, which I don't look at. "Thank you, Maam," I wait until I'm in the seating area until I look at it -- a nice seat in First.

I didn't try to cheer her up in order to get something; I tried to cheer her up because she didn't deserve that treatment, which is why I was initially sad that it didn't seem to help. But plainly it did.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:02 pm

The incident occurred on a flight from New York’s John F. Kennedy International Airport to John Wayne Airport in Orange County, Calif. It prompted the pilots to divert the flight to Denver, where the passenger was temporarily detained.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/transpor ... nt-attack/

I fail to understand why this sort of assault allows a 'temporary detainment'. How about booked at least overnight and stand before a judge the next day. This seems to be a felony assault. Incidentally and apparently in the an American Airlines plane and first class cabin. Qn - it was reported as Southwest?
 
Flflyer83
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:47 pm

This was an operations agent that was physically assaulted, not a flight attendant.
 
travelsonic
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:52 pm

STT757 wrote:
We have a terrorism no fly list, add a new category to the list for disruptive passengers.


"Disruptive" is a hell of a wide spectrum though - encapsulating both the violent extreme, and the much more milder things like being a bit mouthy or rude. If we set the threshold THAT low, it could be problematic when it comes to the (small but still non-zero) number of FAs that walk around with a chip on their shoulders, or have a god complex.

And that's without looking at the issues with the federal No Fly List as-is... which IMO is, at least in its CURRENT state, hardly something to desire modeling another system after.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:54 am

Flflyer83 wrote:
This was an operations agent that was physically assaulted, not a flight attendant.


Doesn’t really change anything - the rules are the rules. Adults can follow them, children cannot. These situations have demonstrated more people in adult bodies are mentally children than we ever previously realized.

If I had a dollar for every pandemic email from an employee I have received on this stuff - ‘but my RIGHTS’ or ‘I have a medical condition, your policy is unfair’, they are all ultimately shut down so easily. ‘This company is privately held - you’re welcome to call police about the policy here and see their response’. ‘Medical condition, okay, please provide your GP’s contact information’.
 
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qf789
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:52 am

Please stick to the topic, it’s not about a mask mandate so leave it out of the discussion
 
planecane
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:26 am

zkojq wrote:
Disgusting how common this nonsense is becoming. We're getting stories like this every other day.

Hope the FA has a speedy recovery.

Not that these things should ever happen but are they really becoming "common?" How many passengers fly domestically each day? Over a million I'm pretty sure and we're talking about a handful of incidents like this.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:37 am

planecane wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Disgusting how common this nonsense is becoming. We're getting stories like this every other day.

Hope the FA has a speedy recovery.

Not that these things should ever happen but are they really becoming "common?" How many passengers fly domestically each day? Over a million I'm pretty sure and we're talking about a handful of incidents like this.


A 1000% increase is nothing to scoff at. 1,300 formal cases at the half year mark is an annual pace of 6-8 incidents per day.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fa ... r-n1266156
 
planecane
Posts: 1760
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:52 am

Aaron747 wrote:
planecane wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Disgusting how common this nonsense is becoming. We're getting stories like this every other day.

Hope the FA has a speedy recovery.

Not that these things should ever happen but are they really becoming "common?" How many passengers fly domestically each day? Over a million I'm pretty sure and we're talking about a handful of incidents like this.


A 1000% increase is nothing to scoff at. 1,300 formal cases at the half year mark is an annual pace of 6-8 incidents per day.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fa ... r-n1266156


There aren't that many where airline employees get assaulted.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16780
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:14 am

planecane wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
planecane wrote:
Not that these things should ever happen but are they really becoming "common?" How many passengers fly domestically each day? Over a million I'm pretty sure and we're talking about a handful of incidents like this.


A 1000% increase is nothing to scoff at. 1,300 formal cases at the half year mark is an annual pace of 6-8 incidents per day.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fa ... r-n1266156


There aren't that many where airline employees get assaulted.


Yes but from employees' POV, the abuse has become commonplace, and each instance feels like it can possibly escalate to assault. A little empathy goes a long way. They're in that every day, we're not.
 
twoaislesforme
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:02 pm

Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:40 pm

I know that this will be a largely unpopular opinion and belief on this aviation themed website but the reality is, airlines need to do a batter job of hiring front line employees such as flight attendants. I've encountered plenty of recent incidents between FA and passenger where the FA was very aggressive, 'its my way or the highway' attitude, and were a major contributing factor towards aggressive passenger behavior. Lets face it, how many of us have gotten pulled over or stopped by a police officer and they felt like they were god; very aggressive, acting entirely inconsiderate and inappropriate.? I do not condone any behavior that leads to a FA being punched on a plane but the reality of it is, some of them deserve it; just not on a plane. Are stats kept that keep track of airline employee assaults by passengers? It seems that Southwest has its share of incidents, maybe they need to train their FA's in de-escalation.
 
twoaislesforme
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:02 pm

Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:42 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
planecane wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

A 1000% increase is nothing to scoff at. 1,300 formal cases at the half year mark is an annual pace of 6-8 incidents per day.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fa ... r-n1266156


There aren't that many where airline employees get assaulted.


Yes but from employees' POV, the abuse has become commonplace, and each instance feels like it can possibly escalate to assault. A little empathy goes a long way. They're in that every day, we're not.


How about FA abuse towards passengers? Everyone on this site wants to think that its never that way but it is. I've encountered quite a few incidents where the FA was abusing the passenger,
 
planecane
Posts: 1760
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:45 pm

twoaislesforme wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
planecane wrote:

There aren't that many where airline employees get assaulted.


Yes but from employees' POV, the abuse has become commonplace, and each instance feels like it can possibly escalate to assault. A little empathy goes a long way. They're in that every day, we're not.


How about FA abuse towards passengers? Everyone on this site wants to think that its never that way but it is. I've encountered quite a few incidents where the FA was abusing the passenger,


I was going to post that also. I've been on a few flights where an FA was clearly on a "mask police" power trip and kept instructing somebody to fix their mask every time it exposed a millimeter of nostril. I could tell from their tone and body language that they were hoping for the passenger to start an argument with them.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1965
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:39 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
This was an operations agent that was physically assaulted, not a flight attendant.


Doesn’t really change anything - the rules are the rules. Adults can follow them, children cannot.

I've noticed plenty of children that seem to follow the rule much better than adults.
 
DoctorVenkman
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:52 pm

twoaislesforme wrote:
I know that this will be a largely unpopular opinion and belief on this aviation themed website but the reality is, airlines need to do a batter job of hiring front line employees such as flight attendants. I've encountered plenty of recent incidents between FA and passenger where the FA was very aggressive, 'its my way or the highway' attitude, and were a major contributing factor towards aggressive passenger behavior. Lets face it, how many of us have gotten pulled over or stopped by a police officer and they felt like they were god; very aggressive, acting entirely inconsiderate and inappropriate.? I do not condone any behavior that leads to a FA being punched on a plane but the reality of it is, some of them deserve it; just not on a plane. Are stats kept that keep track of airline employee assaults by passengers? It seems that Southwest has its share of incidents, maybe they need to train their FA's in de-escalation.


I agree that de-escalation should be the first step in any confrontation. However that doesn't always work despite the FA's best efforts. Some people just want their pound of flesh and will stop at nothing to get it. I don't think it's fair to blame FA's here when it's the passenger being aggressive.

Besides, at the end of the day, flight attendants DO have the ultimate say on an aircraft and are backed by federal law. So it is their way or the highway quite literally.
 
DoctorVenkman
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:54 pm

planecane wrote:
twoaislesforme wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Yes but from employees' POV, the abuse has become commonplace, and each instance feels like it can possibly escalate to assault. A little empathy goes a long way. They're in that every day, we're not.


How about FA abuse towards passengers? Everyone on this site wants to think that its never that way but it is. I've encountered quite a few incidents where the FA was abusing the passenger,


I was going to post that also. I've been on a few flights where an FA was clearly on a "mask police" power trip and kept instructing somebody to fix their mask every time it exposed a millimeter of nostril. I could tell from their tone and body language that they were hoping for the passenger to start an argument with them.


Or they were probably fed up after the 1000th passenger that thought the rules didn't apply to them? I don't begrudge any flight attendant for enforcing federal law.
 
planecane
Posts: 1760
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:41 pm

DoctorVenkman wrote:
planecane wrote:
twoaislesforme wrote:

How about FA abuse towards passengers? Everyone on this site wants to think that its never that way but it is. I've encountered quite a few incidents where the FA was abusing the passenger,


I was going to post that also. I've been on a few flights where an FA was clearly on a "mask police" power trip and kept instructing somebody to fix their mask every time it exposed a millimeter of nostril. I could tell from their tone and body language that they were hoping for the passenger to start an argument with them.


Or they were probably fed up after the 1000th passenger that thought the rules didn't apply to them? I don't begrudge any flight attendant for enforcing federal law.


There's a huge difference between dealing with a passenger who is clearly not following the mask rule (it isn't a law) deliberately and nagging people because it slides down a mm or two on their nose. It's the latter I've seen a few times. If it's the purser it is always one who emphasizes putting the mask back on between bites and sips during the announcement.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15197
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:17 pm

737Captain wrote:
It is never acceptable to assault another person whether it be verbally or physically. I am flight crew and, as someone who has travelled over 200+ days a year even through the pandemic, I must say that in addition to a “rougher” crowd riding on the airlines I have also observed an alarming increase in FA’s and even some pilots being blatantly confrontational to otherwise compliant passengers. I have witnessed at least 2 incidents this week alone where crewmembers who have been unnecessarily aggressive and instigated incidents with passengers who were otherwise minding their own business and following the rules. I’m in no way defending criminal actions of any passenger but there is a systemic problem with many crewmember’s attitudes and a lack of training in de-escalation.

This.

Everyone is stressed out and some just can’t handle it. This is a result of the pandemic fear response and political stoking of social discord.

A lot of these incidents that make the news involve flights to or from NY and California, two states with the most severe covid rules.
 
NLINK
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:20 pm

Re: Southwest Employee assaulted, taken to hospital

Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:17 pm

twoaislesforme wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
planecane wrote:

There aren't that many where airline employees get assaulted.


Yes but from employees' POV, the abuse has become commonplace, and each instance feels like it can possibly escalate to assault. A little empathy goes a long way. They're in that every day, we're not.


How about FA abuse towards passengers? Everyone on this site wants to think that its never that way but it is. I've encountered quite a few incidents where the FA was abusing the passenger,


As others have said they are sick of telling people over and over. The people choose to fly and know they rules before flying. If the mask is that hard for you to wear then either drive or stay home. Easy as that.

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