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LAXintl
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Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:31 pm

Calgary based Lynx Air is Canada's latest ULCC planning to utilize Boeing 737MAX with orders and lease commitments for 46 frames with the first 3 arriving in early 2022.

press release
https://newsroom.aviator.aero/lynx-air- ... t-airline/

video
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y436ba74vdm6z ... r.mp4?dl=0

Image
 
Whiteguy
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:46 pm

Awesome, lowering the bar once again….
 
airman99o
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:48 pm

Former Enerjet rebranded.
 
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Rifitto
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:55 pm

Seems the Canadians fell in love with the max ,AC ,WestJet ,Sunwing ,Flair and now lynx ,it wouldn't surprise me if swoop also join the party
 
jbs2886
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:15 pm

Rifitto wrote:
Seems the Canadians fell in love with the max ,AC ,WestJet ,Sunwing ,Flair and now lynx ,it wouldn't surprise me if swoop also join the party


Well Swoop is Westjet.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:47 pm

Seems like quite some capacity for a relatively small nation (population 38m)
 
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IceCream
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:27 pm

I wonder where this airline will fly out of YYC. Considering Flair/WS/AC are the competitors and not Swoop it's possible they may fare a little better here.
 
777luver
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:01 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Seems like quite some capacity for a relatively small nation (population 38m)


Someone will fail. This is ridiculous capacity, WAY too many airlines
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:07 pm

777luver wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Seems like quite some capacity for a relatively small nation (population 38m)


Someone will fail. This is ridiculous capacity, WAY too many airlines


I agree with this. There will have to be some type of industry consolidation at the very least, I smell a merger coming but also a failure .
 
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ACCS300
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:12 pm

Too bad they didn't keep the Enerjet livery, it was fantastic, this livery is absolutely deplorable, I hope it's not the final.
 
CFWAD
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:20 pm

This is starting to remind me of close to almost 20 years ago. While trying to fill the "void" left when AC bought up CP, Canada at one point had Canjet, Harmony (HMY), and Jetsgo vying for domestic capacity alongside AC and WS. Add the summer domestic charters Skyservice and Air Transat would also serve and some routes like YVR-YYZ had service from 7 domestic airlines at one point.

At least back then each airline had their own unique fleet and product offerings. Today, with everyone except Canada Jetlines running Max's, the real competition will come down to who gets the most favorable lease rates and for how long. Lynx and Flair need to take those savings and invest in I.T. infrastructure and an app that allows the passenger to command their entire experience - especially during flight delays/cancellations. This in turn can reduce your labor costs and increase customer satisfaction (less call center contact).

It was not sustainable then and it will not be this time round. The next 12-18 months will be quite interesting.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:31 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Seems like quite some capacity for a relatively small nation (population 38m)



You're evaluating capacity as number of carriers? That's a curious metric.

Are Canada's average fares per km low relative to other open, long-distance markets like the U.S. or EU?
 
jetwet1
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:32 pm

777luver wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Seems like quite some capacity for a relatively small nation (population 38m)


Someone will fail. This is ridiculous capacity, WAY too many airlines


Give it a year or two and the field will be a lot thinner, I would actually be surprised if there are more than two ULCC's still flying in 2024.
 
markabcan
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:04 am

Let's not forget the upcoming Porter E-Jet buildup either.

By the end of 2022, Canada will have no shortage of mainline players -Air Canada/Rouge, WestJet/Swoop, Porter (E-Jet), Flair, Lynx, Air Transat -plus, to a lesser extent, Sunwing and Canada Jetlines.

Way too much capacity.
 
abrelosojos
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:18 am

markabcan wrote:
Let's not forget the upcoming Porter E-Jet buildup either.

By the end of 2022, Canada will have no shortage of mainline players -Air Canada/Rouge, WestJet/Swoop, Porter (E-Jet), Flair, Lynx, Air Transat -plus, to a lesser extent, Sunwing and Canada Jetlines.

Way too much capacity.


= Porter will be acquired within the year, either by AC or WS. No way do you place an order like that otherwise ...

Saludos,
Alex
 
rampbro
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:18 am

CFWAD wrote:
This is starting to remind me of close to almost 20 years ago. While trying to fill the "void" left when AC bought up CP, Canada at one point had Canjet, Harmony (HMY), and Jetsgo vying for domestic capacity alongside AC and WS. Add the summer domestic charters Skyservice and Air Transat would also serve and some routes like YVR-YYZ had service from 7 domestic airlines at one point.

At least back then each airline had their own unique fleet and product offerings. Today, with everyone except Canada Jetlines running Max's, the real competition will come down to who gets the most favorable lease rates and for how long. Lynx and Flair need to take those savings and invest in I.T. infrastructure and an app that allows the passenger to command their entire experience - especially during flight delays/cancellations. This in turn can reduce your labor costs and increase customer satisfaction (less call center contact).

It was not sustainable then and it will not be this time round. The next 12-18 months will be quite interesting.


Let's not forget CP and AC's housebranded ULCCs - Zip and Tango. Or the short-lived Roots Airlines, and of course Canada 3000. Lots of skeletons for us vultures to pick at.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:30 am

ACCS300 wrote:

Too bad they didn't keep the Enerjet livery, it was fantastic, this livery is absolutely deplorable, I hope it's not the final.


Yeah. If you're gonna call yourself Lynx at least have some representation of the wicked cat of the same name.
 
ThePointblank
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:24 am

Lynx Air has some decent backing, including Indigo Partners, and an experienced leadership team. Their CEO, Merren McArthur was the chief executive of Tigerair Australia, Virgin Australia Regional Airlines and Virgin Australia Cargo. I suspect they will last longer than their competitor, Flair will.
 
jplatts
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:24 am

There is likely a market for nonstop ULCC service to major U.S. leisure destinations from Canadian airports such as YYC, YEG, and YQB that are not near any U.S. commercial airports.

The higher costs of operating Canada to U.S. nonstop flights out of a Canadian airport isn't an issue in a Canadian market such as YYC, YEG, or YQB that isn't near any U.S. commercial airports.

The situation is different in Canadian markets that are closer to U.S. commercial airports such as YXX, YHM, YUL, YYZ/YTZ, YVR, and YWG as there is some leakage to BLI from YVR/YXX, some leakage to BUF/IAG from YHM/YYZ/YTZ, some leakage to GFK from YWG, and some leakage to PBG from YUL.

There are also some U.S.-based LCC/ULCC's that already serve BLI, BUF, BTV, IAG, GFK, and PBG with G4 serving BLI/IAG/GFK/PBG, WN serving BLI/BUF, F9 serving BUF/BTV, and B6 serving BUF/BTV.
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:37 am

Did they even try to design a paint scheme... I mean a 5yo with ProCreate could do better.



Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:27 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Seems like quite some capacity for a relatively small nation (population 38m)


For context, the markets these carriers are serving grew quite significantly from 2015 -> 2019.

Domestic
2015: 79,524,002
2019: 93,299,144

Transborder
2015: 26,499,377
2019: 32,192,583

Source: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en ... 2C20200101

That’s ~18% and ~24% over a 5 year period, during which the population only grew by~5%.

As the numbers above suggest, a significant chunk of the market simply went unserved or underserved. (If you told Canadian a.netters in 2013 or 2014 that Canada was underserved by that margin, they’d go blue in the face arguing otherwise, so beware conventional ‘wisdom’).

Some of that demand is still unserved or underserved (and that’s without factoring the demand stimulated by ULCC fares). Given that - despite this expansion - air fares still cost 2X as much per 100km as the US, there is probably still some untouched/ignored market left for these airlines to serve.

Will all survive? Who knows. I wouldn’t bet against it. The injection of this type of competition can produce unpredictable results.
 
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Polot
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:33 pm

ElPistolero wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Seems like quite some capacity for a relatively small nation (population 38m)


For context, the markets these carriers are serving grew quite significantly from 2015 -> 2019.

Domestic
2015: 79,524,002
2019: 93,299,144

Transborder
2015: 26,499,377
2019: 32,192,583

Source: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en ... 2C20200101

That’s ~18% and ~24% over a 5 year period, during which the population only grew by~5%.

As the numbers above suggest, a significant chunk of the market simply went unserved or underserved. (If you told Canadian a.netters in 2013 or 2014 that Canada was underserved by that margin, they’d go blue in the face arguing otherwise, so beware conventional ‘wisdom’).

Some of that demand is still unserved or underserved (and that’s without factoring the demand stimulated by ULCC fares). Given that - despite this expansion - air fares still cost 2X as much per 100km as the US, there is probably still some untouched/ignored market left for these airlines to serve.

Will all survive? Who knows. I wouldn’t bet against it. The injection of this type of competition can produce unpredictable results.

2018->2019 numbers are similar though, suggesting the growth may have started to plateau. Unfortunately because of Covid, 2020 is useless to see if this was the beginning of a new trend.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:17 pm

Polot wrote:
2018->2019 numbers are similar though, suggesting the growth may have started to plateau. Unfortunately because of Covid, 2020 is useless to see if this was the beginning of a new trend.


It’s important to note that the surge in supply wasn’t related to a sudden surge in demand; it was a supply side decision to increase supply to address longstanding demand.

It resulted in some curious posts here on a.net - with one former WS employee criticizing AC for not exercising capacity discipline - even though both were booking record profits during those years. Reflects the amount of market power the supply side has - which makes it difficult to assess demand. All we know is that it exists and has, in the recent past, gone unserved because of supply side decisions.

Will also note that some of that expansion came through densification and the like - I don’t think AC or WS grew their fleets by 20% but I may be wrong. At some point, a combination of no aircraft left to densify and new aircraft being expensive would automatically curtail expansion, so that plateau may just have been a blip due to that and the Max being grounded.

But yes, COVID is the big unknown. So far, its lowered the barrier to entry - somewhat - by making more aircraft and pilots/technicians available.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:43 pm

Doesn't/didn't F9 have a regional feeder called "Lynx Air"...?

Fairly certain it ceased operations around 10ish years ago; but I'm wondering if F9 or someone stateside still has the IP/TM rights to it, and thus it might create issues for this company on future transborder ops (a la JetBlue vs French Bee)
 
abrelosojos
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:49 pm

ThePointblank wrote:
Lynx Air has some decent backing, including Indigo Partners, and an experienced leadership team. Their CEO, Merren McArthur was the chief executive of Tigerair Australia, Virgin Australia Regional Airlines and Virgin Australia Cargo. I suspect they will last longer than their competitor, Flair will.


= Unsure. Merren led 3 airlines that all failed miserably financially. Flair is now led by the former EVP of Wizz, which is arguably a whole lot more successful. Lynx definitely has better backing and Flair's finances are dubious. But, I am not impressed by Lynx's management team.

Saludos,
Alex
 
Cardude2
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:51 pm

This venture could succeed because they have a competent CEO and backer (indigo aviation). However, with one of these airlines, I smell Canada 3000
see history here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybyu3A-zdyE
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:22 am

Jeez! Not another 737MAX operator!

I was planning to avoid the 737MAX for another 4-5 years. Will be impossible to do intra-Canada! :(
 
Ionosphere
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:13 am

I wish them better luck than the failed Frontier subsidiary Lynx Aviation.
 
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IceCream
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:03 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Doesn't/didn't F9 have a regional feeder called "Lynx Air"...?

Fairly certain it ceased operations around 10ish years ago; but I'm wondering if F9 or someone stateside still has the IP/TM rights to it, and thus it might create issues for this company on future transborder ops (a la JetBlue vs French Bee)

That's a good point. I'm surprised this airline took off in the first place but I'd hope they took this into account before launching.
 
sxf24
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:02 am

IceCream wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Doesn't/didn't F9 have a regional feeder called "Lynx Air"...?

Fairly certain it ceased operations around 10ish years ago; but I'm wondering if F9 or someone stateside still has the IP/TM rights to it, and thus it might create issues for this company on future transborder ops (a la JetBlue vs French Bee)

That's a good point. I'm surprised this airline took off in the first place but I'd hope they took this into account before launching.


Since Indigo Partners is an investor in both Frontier and Lynx, I’m sure intellectual property is not an issue. That may have been a reason the name was chosen.
 
jplatts
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:45 am

sxf24 wrote:
IceCream wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Doesn't/didn't F9 have a regional feeder called "Lynx Air"...?

Fairly certain it ceased operations around 10ish years ago; but I'm wondering if F9 or someone stateside still has the IP/TM rights to it, and thus it might create issues for this company on future transborder ops (a la JetBlue vs French Bee)

That's a good point. I'm surprised this airline took off in the first place but I'd hope they took this into account before launching.


Since Indigo Partners is an investor in both Frontier and Lynx, I’m sure intellectual property is not an issue. That may have been a reason the name was chosen.


According to the USPTO TESS database, the Lynx Aviation trademark is no longer alive. F9 had also discontinued the use of the Lynx Aviation name after Lynx Aviation discontinued operations in 2011.

Unlike F9 who had completely discontinued the use of the Lynx Aviation name, AA has kept the AirCal, America West, Piedmont, PSA, US Airways, and TWA trademarks alive through (a) retro liveries, (b) its Piedmont/PSA regional jet subsidiaries, and (c) some of the American Eagle regional jets displaying the Piedmont or PSA logos.
 
JeremyXWB
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:33 pm

Would've wished that they stick with this smart-looking livery instead

 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:01 pm

jplatts wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
IceCream wrote:
That's a good point. I'm surprised this airline took off in the first place but I'd hope they took this into account before launching.


Since Indigo Partners is an investor in both Frontier and Lynx, I’m sure intellectual property is not an issue. That may have been a reason the name was chosen.


According to the USPTO TESS database, the Lynx Aviation trademark is no longer alive. F9 had also discontinued the use of the Lynx Aviation name after Lynx Aviation discontinued operations in 2011.

Unlike F9 who had completely discontinued the use of the Lynx Aviation name, AA has kept the AirCal, America West, Piedmont, PSA, US Airways, and TWA trademarks alive through (a) retro liveries, (b) its Piedmont/PSA regional jet subsidiaries, and (c) some of the American Eagle regional jets displaying the Piedmont or PSA logos.

Thanks for looking that up!
 
FlapOperator
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:43 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Doesn't/didn't F9 have a regional feeder called "Lynx Air"...?

Fairly certain it ceased operations around 10ish years ago; but I'm wondering if F9 or someone stateside still has the IP/TM rights to it, and thus it might create issues for this company on future transborder ops (a la JetBlue vs French Bee)


Yes. It was "Lynx" and a Q400 operator. The IP likely belongs to Republic, ironically enough.

I see the post above. I bet the IP is dead. Too bad.
 
casperCA
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:04 pm

jplatts wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
IceCream wrote:
That's a good point. I'm surprised this airline took off in the first place but I'd hope they took this into account before launching.


Since Indigo Partners is an investor in both Frontier and Lynx, I’m sure intellectual property is not an issue. That may have been a reason the name was chosen.


According to the USPTO TESS database, the Lynx Aviation trademark is no longer alive. F9 had also discontinued the use of the Lynx Aviation name after Lynx Aviation discontinued operations in 2011.

Unlike F9 who had completely discontinued the use of the Lynx Aviation name, AA has kept the AirCal, America West, Piedmont, PSA, US Airways, and TWA trademarks alive through (a) retro liveries, (b) its Piedmont/PSA regional jet subsidiaries, and (c) some of the American Eagle regional jets displaying the Piedmont or PSA logos.


The trademark registration in the US would not be relevant for a Canadian operator. The only issue would be if it was registered with Industry Canada as a Canadian trade mark.

Lynx Air and Lynx Airlines were registered on Aug 12, 2021 by 1263343 Alberta Inc. (Likely these guys).

There was a prior registration for AEROLYNX that was active from 1999 to 2001. I don't think that would have been Fronteir. Likely someone else. It was also held by a numbered company out of Ontario.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:30 pm

casperCA wrote:
The trademark registration in the US would not be relevant for a Canadian operator.

Until if and/or when that Canadian operator wanted to use it for cross border ops, as was mentioned in the referring post.
 
casperCA
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:30 am

LAX772LR wrote:
casperCA wrote:
The trademark registration in the US would not be relevant for a Canadian operator.

Until if and/or when that Canadian operator wanted to use it for cross border ops, as was mentioned in the referring post.


If it can get the trademark in one country but not in another country that would make for an interesting situation.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:39 am

Polot wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Seems like quite some capacity for a relatively small nation (population 38m)


For context, the markets these carriers are serving grew quite significantly from 2015 -> 2019.

Domestic
2015: 79,524,002
2019: 93,299,144

Transborder
2015: 26,499,377
2019: 32,192,583

Source: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en ... 2C20200101

That’s ~18% and ~24% over a 5 year period, during which the population only grew by~5%.

As the numbers above suggest, a significant chunk of the market simply went unserved or underserved. (If you told Canadian a.netters in 2013 or 2014 that Canada was underserved by that margin, they’d go blue in the face arguing otherwise, so beware conventional ‘wisdom’).

Some of that demand is still unserved or underserved (and that’s without factoring the demand stimulated by ULCC fares). Given that - despite this expansion - air fares still cost 2X as much per 100km as the US, there is probably still some untouched/ignored market left for these airlines to serve.

Will all survive? Who knows. I wouldn’t bet against it. The injection of this type of competition can produce unpredictable results.

2018->2019 numbers are similar though, suggesting the growth may have started to plateau. Unfortunately because of Covid, 2020 is useless to see if this was the beginning of a new trend.


2018->2019 = MAX grounding. Both AC and WS would have grown 5% if not for that during that period + WG's birds internationally.

LAX772LR wrote:
Doesn't/didn't F9 have a regional feeder called "Lynx Air"...?

Fairly certain it ceased operations around 10ish years ago; but I'm wondering if F9 or someone stateside still has the IP/TM rights to it, and thus it might create issues for this company on future transborder ops (a la JetBlue vs French Bee)


Yes they operated Q400s, which I believe were picked up by AC's regional Jazz after F9 regional Lynx was shut down. AC/Jazz/Chorus have since disposed of them.

BawliBooch wrote:
Jeez! Not another 737MAX operator!

I was planning to avoid the 737MAX for another 4-5 years. Will be impossible to do intra-Canada! :(


Once Porter brings all those E95s into service, it'll be easy to avoid. ;)
 
bluecrew
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:56 am

Sure... there's a giant market in Calgary... great that there's no competition...

I doubt they're going to deliver more than 10 of those frames before going bankrupt. Major competition from WJA, even if nobody wants to fly ACA they still have a sizeable presence.

It seems like they look south and see Denver, with a legacy, LCC, and a ULCC all being successful, but don't realize the ULCC is successful because of decades of brand recognition, the LCC moved in last, and all three of them drive huge numbers of connecting traffic through the hub. I just can't see that happening with Calgary... Denver has been blasting off both in population and wealth for the last 7 or so years, and tourism has been increasing enormously, is the same true of Calgary?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:39 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Jeez! Not another 737MAX operator!

I was planning to avoid the 737MAX for another 4-5 years. Will be impossible to do intra-Canada! :(

Feel your pain.

I too have no intention of setting foot on a 737MAX for years to come, letting it prove itself in service. Fortunately we have DL here (at least for now, fingers crossed), but it's looking really tough to avoid it, north of the border. :(
 
ThePointblank
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Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:05 am

bluecrew wrote:
Sure... there's a giant market in Calgary... great that there's no competition...

I doubt they're going to deliver more than 10 of those frames before going bankrupt. Major competition from WJA, even if nobody wants to fly ACA they still have a sizeable presence.

It seems like they look south and see Denver, with a legacy, LCC, and a ULCC all being successful, but don't realize the ULCC is successful because of decades of brand recognition, the LCC moved in last, and all three of them drive huge numbers of connecting traffic through the hub. I just can't see that happening with Calgary... Denver has been blasting off both in population and wealth for the last 7 or so years, and tourism has been increasing enormously, is the same true of Calgary?


Definitely going to be a blood bath in the air, with how saturated the market is going to be in Canada.

Soon we will have:

1. Air Canada / Rouge
2. WestJet / Swoop
3. Porter
4. Flair
5. Sunwing
6. Transat
7. Lynx Air

I just don't think the passenger numbers are there in Canada to support this many airlines in the long term. I predict we will see a bloodbath on fares in the short to medium-term as Swoop / Porter / Flair / Lynx all scramble to undercut one another flying the same low-yield passengers to the same destinations.

Air Canada is going to be relatively well insulated from all of this due to their size and network, and they will use Rogue as their low cost division to fend off anyone on the low-yield routes.

Likewise, WestJet will use Swoop as a vehicle to fend off the new entrants to the market at the low end, and thanks to their size and network, should be relatively well insulated as well.

Sunwing's niche isn't air travel in itself, it is their all-inclusive vacation packages. Air travel is just one component of their business, which supports the main profit centres, which is selling their vacation packages. They won't mind loosing some money on air fares, if it means they profit from their vacation packages, and I don't see them actively trying to compete with Flair or Swoop in the sun destinations market. However, they will have to price their packages in such a way to remain attractive to people who would be willing to take a ULCC-priced flight to a sun destination and book an Airbnb there rather than going the all-inclusive route, for example.

The Quebec government is unwilling to let Transat fail, and they will probably swoop in to help Transat if needed financially. However, Transat has been able to survive, as their niche has been European and vacation travel, but that's under increasing threat from Air Canada and WestJet.

This leaves Porter, Lynx and Flair in the vulnerable spot. There are major question marks about Flair's financial situation, so they are on shaky ground, and I'd say the first to go bust. Porter is also a question mark, financially but to a lesser extent. Lynx seems to have good backing, but I would say the jury is still out if they can survive in the long term.
 
Cardude2
Posts: 689
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:05 pm

ThePointblank wrote:

Definitely going to be a blood bath in the air, with how saturated the market is going to be in Canada.

Soon we will have:

1. Air Canada / Rouge
2. WestJet / Swoop
3. Porter
4. Flair
5. Sunwing
6. Transat
7. Lynx Air

I just don't think the passenger numbers are there in Canada to support this many airlines in the long term. I predict we will see a bloodbath on fares in the short to medium-term as Swoop / Porter / Flair / Lynx all scramble to undercut one another flying the same low-yield passengers to the same destinations.


that's not all, you forgot connect airlines and OWG

I don't expect air transat to last for much longer and rouge and swoop are just here to kill the rest and raise prices, you watch.
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 4022
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:31 pm

Cardude2 wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:

Definitely going to be a blood bath in the air, with how saturated the market is going to be in Canada.

Soon we will have:

1. Air Canada / Rouge
2. WestJet / Swoop
3. Porter
4. Flair
5. Sunwing
6. Transat
7. Lynx Air

I just don't think the passenger numbers are there in Canada to support this many airlines in the long term. I predict we will see a bloodbath on fares in the short to medium-term as Swoop / Porter / Flair / Lynx all scramble to undercut one another flying the same low-yield passengers to the same destinations.


that's not all, you forgot connect airlines and OWG

I don't expect air transat to last for much longer and rouge and swoop are just here to kill the rest and raise prices, you watch.

The Quebec government will never let the hometown airline fail; they will be more than willing to subsidize and bailout the Air Transat for as long as it takes. Plus, Transat has a big following in Quebec.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 3145
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:23 am

Cardude2 wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:

Definitely going to be a blood bath in the air, with how saturated the market is going to be in Canada.

Soon we will have:

1. Air Canada / Rouge
2. WestJet / Swoop
3. Porter
4. Flair
5. Sunwing
6. Transat
7. Lynx Air

I just don't think the passenger numbers are there in Canada to support this many airlines in the long term. I predict we will see a bloodbath on fares in the short to medium-term as Swoop / Porter / Flair / Lynx all scramble to undercut one another flying the same low-yield passengers to the same destinations.


that's not all, you forgot connect airlines and OWG

I don't expect air transat to last for much longer and rouge and swoop are just here to kill the rest and raise prices, you watch.


Connect Airlines if they actually get off the ground. However, they won't be a Canadian carrier, even if their focus would be YTZ. One other that is coming very soon is Pivot Airlines (aka Air Georgian rising from the ashes as a stand-alone carrier)? They're launching scheduled ops with a single CRJ out of YKF to YOW and YUL. I could see Pivot becoming a 50 seater feeder for Porter into YOW and YUL.
 
Canuck600
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:29 am

I hope Pivot has better operations people & a better operations budget than they had in the Georgian days. From what I read it was operational issues that caused them to lose the Air Canada flying
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 26105
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:34 am

First Lynx 737MAX makes an appearance at BFI. Tail not fully repainted.

Image
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHU4buYVQAo ... name=large
 
CFWAD
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:36 pm

Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:08 pm

Such a shame they didn't keep that previous livery. But nice to see things are moving forward for them.

Will be interested to hear their first routes. Compete head on or venture to small city pairs like Breeze has been doing?
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1761
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:48 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
CFWAD wrote:
Such a shame they didn't keep that previous livery. But nice to see things are moving forward for them.

Will be interested to hear their first routes. Compete head on or venture to small city pairs like Breeze has been doing?


YYZ and YVR are part of their first scheduled flights, it’s been teased on Twitter a few times.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2647
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:03 pm

Whiteguy wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
CFWAD wrote:
Such a shame they didn't keep that previous livery. But nice to see things are moving forward for them.

Will be interested to hear their first routes. Compete head on or venture to small city pairs like Breeze has been doing?


YYZ and YVR are part of their first scheduled flights, it’s been teased on Twitter a few times.


Good to see them thinking big from the get go. Pretty decent livery too - personally think it’s better than F8. Has more than a hint of Royal Nepal’s early 2000s livery.

Any news on a launch date?
 
User avatar
IceCream
Posts: 477
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:46 pm

Re: Another Canadian ULCC startup - Lynx Air

Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:08 pm

ElPistolero wrote:
Whiteguy wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
CFWAD wrote:
Such a shame they didn't keep that previous livery. But nice to see things are moving forward for them.

Will be interested to hear their first routes. Compete head on or venture to small city pairs like Breeze has been doing?


YYZ and YVR are part of their first scheduled flights, it’s been teased on Twitter a few times.


Good to see them thinking big from the get go. Pretty decent livery too - personally think it’s better than F8. Has more than a hint of Royal Nepal’s early 2000s livery.

Any news on a launch date?

I'm assuming sometime in March at this point. I'd assume they open up bookings after the new year? But I do like their livery. YYZ and YVR are probably good places to start. I wonder if they'll also do maybe YWG or YYJ or YOW to start off with as well.

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