Scheduled airline service to strictly military use bases

flyPIT · Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:01 am

I saw this timetable on Ebay:

Got me wondering... how much scheduled service has there been by civilian operators to airports that are exclusively military use?

I'm not interested in joint-use civilian/military airports such as CHS, HNL and VPS.

Also not interested in CRAF charters to military bases.

I'm familiar with United's Island hopper that includes Kwajajein Atoll as well as "Janet" to Tonopah and Groom Lake. Any others, past and present?

stl07 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:04 am

There is one airline that used to recently or maybe still does fly from MIA-Guantanamo

seb146 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:12 am

I think they are all joint use, if a commercial flight has service there. I am thinking about bases along the West Coast and all I can come up with are either military or civilian. Beale, Pendleton, McChord, Fairchild, Whidbey Island, Travis all have no scheduled flights. The closest thing I can think of is National Guard at both PDX and LMT but LMT no longer has scheduled service.

TUSAA · Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:23 am

Pacific Airlines and later Air West served Vandenberg Air Force in California up until sometime in 1968. There was a note in the back of the timetables...Passengers arriving Vandenberg are subject to Security Control.

flyPIT · Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:33 am

seb146 wrote:
I think they are all joint use, if a commercial flight has service there.

I'm not so sure. Kwajalein for example I would consider strictly a military use airfield, especially since you cannot deplane if it is not your destination and cannot take pics from the plane. I assumed the Golden West service to Edwards AFB was similar and available only to military personnel and civilian contractors.

seb146 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:45 am

flyPIT wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I think they are all joint use, if a commercial flight has service there.

I'm not so sure. Kwajalein for example I would consider strictly a military use airfield, especially since you cannot deplane if it is not your destination and cannot take pics from the plane. I assumed the Golden West service to Edwards AFB was similar and available only to military personnel and civilian contractors.

In the past, it may have been financially responsible to fly commercial to military bases. There are some videos I have seen where no one but military is allowed to get off or on at Kwajalein but they still show the landing and take off. It could make more financial sense to fly commercial into a nearby airport then bus them to the base. GEG is right next to Fairchild and SAC is between Travis and Beale.

I know Union Pacific and BNSF (railroads) shuttle crews in vans so they don't have to count hours and it saves on crew accommodation. Maybe the same thing with military bases?

TWA772LR · Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:11 am

GRK is Gray Army Airfield. A military installation that happens to have a commercial terminal, but that'd be in the same league as CHS and the like. It's advertised as service to Killeen though. Edwards AFB is so middle of nowhere that it would probably be the best city/attraction/economic center to advertise service for. Maybe nearby Reefer City would be a better selling point? :scratchchin:

RJNUT · Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:11 am

Johnston Island Atoll (now closed)was the 1st stop out of HNL on the Air Micronesia island hopper and Aloha briefly served the island. Strictly military and i think i read somewhere the window shades were to be closed on approach ,taxing and takeoff. I believe air service stopped in the early90's

ryan78 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:18 am

stl07 wrote:
There is one airline that used to recently or maybe still does fly from MIA-Guantanamo

If I remeber correctly IBC Airways had scheduled service to Guantanamo, although I'm pretty sure it was out of FLL. I remeber it being bookable on their website a few years back, 1 or 2 weekly service with the E145. Not sure if it's still operating today.

stl07 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:19 am

ryan78 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
There is one airline that used to recently or maybe still does fly from MIA-Guantanamo

If I remeber correctly IBC Airways had scheduled service to Guantanamo, although I'm pretty sure it was out of FLL. I remeber it being bookable on their website a few years back, 1 or 2 weekly service with the E145. Not sure if it's still operating today.

That's what it was.

atcsundevil · Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:43 am

flyPIT wrote:
I'm not interested in joint-use civilian/military airports such as CHS, HNL and VPS.

VPS is not at all comparable to CHS or HNL, and it isn't joint-use. VPS is located within Eglin AFB. ATC is USAF, all facilities apart from the terminal itself are USAF, and no GA or non-scheduled operators are permitted. None of those things apply to CHS or HNL. VPS pretty much squarely falls within the parameters of what you're looking for.

e38 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:44 am

February 1, 1979 timetable, Seaco Airlines served Wurtsmith Air Force Base, Michigan.

Wurtsmith was not Joint-use.

The timetable can be seen at http://www.timetableimages.com

e38

CanesFan · Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:19 am

Does Eareckson Air Station on Shemya Island count? NW used it as a technical stop for many years and was served by Reeve Aleutian as well.

Philippine747 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:22 am

Philippine Airlines used to fly to NAS Cubi Point/Subic Bay (SFS) from Manila using DC-3s while it was still under American control.

http://timetableimages.com/ttimages/pr/pr61/pr61-3.jpg

Boof02671 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:29 am

flyPIT wrote:
I saw this timetable on Ebay:

Got me wondering... how much scheduled service has there been by civilian operators to airports that are exclusively military use?

I'm not interested in joint-use civilian/military airports such as CHS, HNL and VPS.

Also not interested in CRAF charters to military bases.

I'm familiar with United's Island hopper that includes Kwajajein Atoll as well as "Janet" to Tonopah and Groom Lake. Any others, past and present?

If it was exclusively military then there wouldn’t be scheduled civilian service.

ex·clu·sive
/ikˈsklo͞osiv/
adjective
1.
excluding or not admitting other things.
"my exclusive focus is on San Antonio issues"

Jshank83 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:34 am

I’m pretty sure TBN you actually have to go thru base security to get to the airfield. It’s also completely owned by the military. That’s probably as close are you are going to get to what you are looking for.

crownvic · Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:56 am

Way back, Southern Airlines flew into Eglin AFB. As mentioned above, it is now VPS, but in the old days, not sure if it worked how it does now as a joint use airport.

flyPIT · Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:02 am

Boof02671 wrote:
If it was exclusively military then there wouldn’t be scheduled civilian service.

ex·clu·sive
/ikˈsklo͞osiv/
adjective
1.
excluding or not admitting other things.
"my exclusive focus is on San Antonio issues"

context
[ kon-tekst ]
noun
1.
the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect:
"You have misinterpreted my remark because you took it out of context."

willyj · Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:02 am

I think Agra in India is an Air Force airport that Air India is able to use - I flew in on Air India from Varanasi a few years ago and thought someone had mentioned that.

FLALEFTY · Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:11 am

I'm surprised that no one mentioned "Janet Airlines", which is operated by defense contractor AECOM. Their fleet of 6 B736's, 5 Beechcraft King Air's and 2 1900C's fly daily from a secure terminal at LAS shuttling military personnel and civilian contractor employees to 18 facilities primarily located on the Nevada National Security Site (Area 51, Tonopah Test Range, etc.) and facilities in California such as USAF Plant 42 Palmdale, Pt. Mugu NAS, Edwards AFB and Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake.

flyPIT · Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:19 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
I'm surprised that no one mentioned "Janet Airlines", which is operated by defense contractor AECOM. Their fleet of 6 B736's, 5 Beechcraft King Air's and 2 1900C's fly daily from a secure terminal at LAS shuttling military personnel and civilian contractor employees to 18 facilities primarily located on the Nevada National Security Site (Area 51, Tonopah Test Range, etc.) and facilities in California such as USAF Plant 42 Palmdale, Pt. Mugu NAS, Edwards AFB and Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake.

I mentioned it in the OP but I didn’t realize their operation was that expansive.

subramak1 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:41 am

In India, many air services were operated to Air Force bases - Pune for ex is still the main air force base and there is a civilian area. When CJB Airport in India was shut down for runway extension in 1980s, Sulur Air force station acted as the airport. The waiting hall was a Hangar. My first flight to anywhere was from CJB to BOM in 1988.

flyer56 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:56 am

You mean like DSX? EVA's regional airline Uni Air has two flights a month from KHH I believe, but as the island is restricted the flights are sold as a charter and require a permit. The airport is run by the Taiwan Coast Guard.

trent768 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:39 am

In Indonesia, I believe MLG/Malang fits the description. It was located in Abdulrachman Saleh AFB, home of the IAF Hercules and Super Tucano. Up until a few years ago, passenger must go through military checkpoint before entering the terminal. When I say terminal, it was a small building owned by the IAF. They now have a dedicated terminal complex separated from the military zone.

Flights were sometimes delayed due to the air force activities. I was once crossing the apron to board when an airforce personnel stopped us and asked us to go back inside the terminal to allow a Hercules to taxi (man, they are LOUD!).

Last December, my flight was delayed due to a training session. We were further delayed when one of the Tucanos made an emergency landing and had to be pulled by a tug from the other end of the runway. Pretty intense to see it land, with all the fire engine and ambulance chasing it as it flared down the runway!

Noshow · Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:10 am

The old Berlin airports Tempelhof and Tegel legally were military bases and had a lot of commercial traffic.
Today Rostock airport is a German military base with commercial traffic to some separate terminal. Ramstein AB has a lot of commercial flights and even some passenger terminal but for military charters. Not sure about anything scheduled outside of Air Mobility Command's needs.

blandy62 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:24 am

Kwajalein

jodie · Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:13 am

Back in the 70’s there was a weekly scheduled Britannia 732 from Luton to RAF Gatow in Berlin. You couldn’t book it as regular civvie though

Noshow · Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:22 am

Brings me to the Falklands shuttle from RAF Brize Norton. This can be booked AFAIK.

330lover · Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:45 am

Mount Pleasant air base (MPN) is a military base, seeing some passenger traffic.
The twice weekly shuttle from Brize Norton (via Cape Verde), which is operate by RAF
Plus a weekly connection from Punta Arenas (PUQ, Chile) and Sao Paulo (GRU, Brazil), by LAN.
Though those two are temporarily suspended due to Covid travel restictions.

RDWRER · Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:38 am

Yep, the twice weekly airbridge from BZZ to MPN is technically scheduled and operated by civilian operator AirTanker on behalf of the RAF.

You may also be able to book on to the Akrotiri flights too, but I'm not sure.

https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisation ... formation/

vfw614 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:17 pm

Not sure where to draw the line when it comes to "joint" use, but in Europe, places like Manching (Germany), RAF Valley (UK) and Ørland (Norway) come to mind. They are 95 per cent military with a shed in the corner for at most a handful of daily commercial flights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingolstad ... ng_Airport
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Valley
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98rla ... ir_Station

Boof02671 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:50 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
I'm surprised that no one mentioned "Janet Airlines", which is operated by defense contractor AECOM. Their fleet of 6 B736's, 5 Beechcraft King Air's and 2 1900C's fly daily from a secure terminal at LAS shuttling military personnel and civilian contractor employees to 18 facilities primarily located on the Nevada National Security Site (Area 51, Tonopah Test Range, etc.) and facilities in California such as USAF Plant 42 Palmdale, Pt. Mugu NAS, Edwards AFB and Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake.

Except that’s not schedule civilian flights. Those are charter flights to ferry employees to Skunkworks

Exeiowa · Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:08 pm

So what we are looking for is a place where a person working at a military facility (or family residing there) can (or from what in the thread mostly could) book a flight on a commercial airline with their own funds to said facility as an available transportation option to get there, in preference to driving or some such. But that facility does not provide routinely for normal travel to said location for people who have non military business off site via a dedicated civilian infrastructure on site that separates civilian and military use.

i think that covers it.

mga707 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:03 pm

Not yet mentioned: Can't find the exact dates, but for a few years in the '60s Southern Airways flew from Huntsville AL to what was then the Mississippi Test Facility, now NASA's Stennis Space Center, on the Pearl River in southern Mississippi. Only authorized personnel were carried. Huntsville was an important center of the U.S. space program in the '60s.

FLALEFTY · Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:38 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
I'm surprised that no one mentioned "Janet Airlines", which is operated by defense contractor AECOM. Their fleet of 6 B736's, 5 Beechcraft King Air's and 2 1900C's fly daily from a secure terminal at LAS shuttling military personnel and civilian contractor employees to 18 facilities primarily located on the Nevada National Security Site (Area 51, Tonopah Test Range, etc.) and facilities in California such as USAF Plant 42 Palmdale, Pt. Mugu NAS, Edwards AFB and Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake.

Except that’s not schedule civilian flights. Those are charter flights to ferry employees to Skunkworks

"Janet" regularly flies to a schedule to most of the facilities they serve. They just happen to be an airline where your security clearance, "need to know" and "permission to be there" are prerequisites for the passengers.

PatrickZ80 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:40 pm

I remember in the past Transavia flew some charters from Twenthe Air Base in the Netherlands, flights were handled by the Netherlands Air Force as there was no commercial handler at the airport. There was a small terminal but it was entirely on the airbase, a lot has changed since then. The air base has closed but even long before that commercial air service at Twenthe came to an end. There have been attempts to restart the airport as a commercial airport but these have never been successful.

classicjets · Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:41 am

Some examples could also include Foshan Shadi (FUO) and Beijing Nanyuan (NAY) up until the latter's commercial flights were shifted to the new Daxing (PKX) airport in 2019. Yes they have commercial terminal buildings for public use, but they are/were very much military airfields. In both cases China United is the only provider of scheduled service at these bases, a privilege they seem to have retained from their legacy of being a subsidiary of the People's Liberation Army Air Force, though the PLAAF long since divested the carrier which is now majority owned by China Eastern.

hoons90 · Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:45 am

Kunsan Air Base has civilian flights to Jeju on Jin Air and Jeju Air. The airfield is owned and operated by the USAF, but the passenger terminal is operated by Korea Airports Corporation. If I'm not mistaken, USAF personnel provide ATC services to these civilian flights.

MetalNeutral · Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:19 pm

Isn't Thule AFB in Greenland still served by commercial flights by Air Greenland? Not sure if it fits the bill and I don't know if you need specific permissions to book the flights (if still existing).

Cheers,
MN

SASViking · Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:40 pm

MetalNeutral wrote:
Isn't Thule AFB in Greenland still served by commercial flights by Air Greenland? Not sure if it fits the bill and I don't know if you need specific permissions to book the flights (if still existing).

Cheers,
MN

It is. And you do need a permit unless you are in the military, invited or live in one of the settlements that are served via Thule

KCaviator · Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:04 pm

TBN and VPS are about as military as you can get.

PlymSpotter · Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:35 pm

In the UK, you will soon be able to fly into RAF Valley (HLY) with Eastern Airways. This operates as the Welsh airlink from Cardiff which had been paused due to Covid and airline failures.

And also in the UK, Newquay Airport (NQY) saw flights for decades whilst classed as RAF St Mawgan. The military pedigree was apparently lost on the local authorities, who didn't realise the airport would need to be recertified as a civilian airport when the military base closed, until way too far down the line. The airport ended up being closed for a month whilst the new license was applied for and certified.

macsog6 · Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:46 pm

TBN (Waynesville, MO) f/k/a Forney Field is inside the "wire" at Fort Leonard Wood and as was mentioned above by KCaviator, about as military as one can get.

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