Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
720B
Topic Author
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:52 am

British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:44 pm

As per link below, British Airways is mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR as result of the expensive fees for airlines.

https://airwaysmag.com/airports/ba-cons ... qAkkdIrBpQ
 
IADCA
Posts: 2480
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:47 pm

The reason the authority can safely hike fees is that demand for service (at least in normal times) so far outstrips supply of slots.

BA won't leave because it can't: if it did, other carriers would gladly fill that void, and without LHR, BA pretty much isn't a viable business.
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 5368
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:49 pm

720B wrote:
As per link below, British Airways is mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR as result of the expensive fees for airlines.

https://airwaysmag.com/airports/ba-cons ... qAkkdIrBpQ


BA leaving LHR would be commercial suicide for them and they know it. This is a bargaining tool, nothing more, nothing less.

Now if they could get a bunch of airlines to leave with them - EI, VS, KL, AA, LH, AF, AY, LX and others with multiple daily frequencies - then they may have an argument.

Otherwise, never going to happen.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 1818
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:57 pm

Nothing more than a small child having a tantrum. London simply doesn't have the spare airport capacity for a BA sized airline anywhere other than Heathrow.
Heathrow knows it. BA knows it. IAG knows it. Oneworld know it. All their competitors knows it. UK Govt knows it.
Just let the small child scream and shout on the floor.... and if they realise nobody is paying any attention, the tantrum will eventually stop
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 4575
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:05 pm

ClassicLover wrote:

BA leaving LHR would be commercial suicide for them and they know it.

Otherwise, never going to happen.


You're right. I don't see that happening. I was shocked when I read this topic as soon as I got on the forum. Why would they leave Heathrow? Millions of Pounds were spent building T5, it's not for nothing.

Can you imagine American dehubbing DFW?
 
DaveMetroD
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:05 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:06 pm

Saber rattling. Don't think it will work in this case.
 
User avatar
frigatebird
Posts: 1910
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:02 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:08 pm

I don't think the title of the article reflects Mr. Gallego's words correctly. As I read it, IAG are considering funnelling transit passengers (over 40%) through another hub. If they move them to another UK airport, for example LGW, people in Britain wouldn't be too concerned. But the possibilities at other UK airports are limited. Moving to MAD on the other hand, would be a major concern for British politicians. It would mean many BA destinations would move to IB and UX, and considerable loss of jobs for BA and LHR. BA would retain LHR for P2P traffic only. I think that is what IAG is considering (threatening?).
 
Flanker7
Posts: 571
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:38 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:08 pm

So if the did, where would they go????
 
User avatar
SRQKEF
Posts: 2063
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:10 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:16 pm

frigatebird wrote:
I don't think the title of the article reflects Mr. Gallego's words correctly. As I read it, IAG are considering funnelling transit passengers (over 40%) through another hub. If they move them to another UK airport, for example LGW, people in Britain wouldn't be too concerned. But the possibilities at other UK airports are limited. Moving to MAD on the other hand, would be a major concern for British politicians. It would mean many BA destinations would move to IB and UX, and considerable loss of jobs for BA and LHR. BA would retain LHR for P2P traffic only. I think that is what IAG is considering (threatening?).


Same, I read it as BA threatening to move transit focused routes from LHR to MAD/DUB if fees get hiked, especially on more marginal routes.
 
MON
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:54 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:21 pm

Sounds like a rethink of withdrawing from LGW should be considered?
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 1818
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:23 pm

Which transit routes can be moved from LHR to MAD ? The only ones that might make sense to move are SCL, EZE and GIG (note - I have excluded GRU + MEX because LA + AM also fly the routes non-stop in competition).... and even then it would be a bit self-defeating financially as BA then open themselves up to competition from AF/KL and LH
The last time BA moved some West African routes from LHR to LGW, there was a major political reaction in West Africa.... only for BA to back down and restore the routes to LHR
If BA drop non-stop routes between Heathrow and Morocco+Portugal+Spain, the likes of Easyjet, Ryanair and TUI will be only too happy to take the business - or BA can move the routes to LCY + LGW instead... but that still leaves BA having to deal with the 80% use-it-or-lose-it rule on LHR slots when the Covid exemption ceases
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 5368
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:37 pm

SRQKEF wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
I don't think the title of the article reflects Mr. Gallego's words correctly. As I read it, IAG are considering funnelling transit passengers (over 40%) through another hub. If they move them to another UK airport, for example LGW, people in Britain wouldn't be too concerned. But the possibilities at other UK airports are limited. Moving to MAD on the other hand, would be a major concern for British politicians. It would mean many BA destinations would move to IB and UX, and considerable loss of jobs for BA and LHR. BA would retain LHR for P2P traffic only. I think that is what IAG is considering (threatening?).


Same, I read it as BA threatening to move transit focused routes from LHR to MAD/DUB if fees get hiked, especially on more marginal routes.


That's still 40% of passengers, which is a lot of people. Also, you can't move the transit passengers as one block of people. A lot of the point to point flights rely on the transit passengers to operate profitably. Take them out of the equation and move them all to DUB or MAD and the house of cards comes tumbling down on other routes.

BA would need to substantially change their business model - moving some transit passengers to DUB (and it would be DUB as it's geographically closest and has a 2nd runway opening next year), starting long-haul out of MAN, EDI/GLA, NCL, JER to stop the domestic transits and so on. It could be done and stranger things have happened. Still don't think there's any chance of it though!! :)
 
tonystan
Posts: 1770
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:43 pm

I don’t think they are mulling/threatening anything. I think a pragmatic point is being made that if it gets to the point where charges at LHR far outweigh the benefits of operating a hub & spoke operation the group could look at better ways to operate that side of the BA operation away from LHR.

At the end of the day that’s what business leaders do and it’s important that they let their stakeholders (HAA in this case) aware of that.

I personally don’t see it happening in our lifetime however.
 
User avatar
Spiderguy252
Posts: 1221
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:58 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:49 pm

Cute from BA, but no cigar. Emirates too should announce they are leaving DXB just for the lulz.
 
Luftymatt
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:27 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:56 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
Cute from BA, but no cigar. Emirates too should announce they are leaving DXB just for the lulz.


They have done, several times. They've been saying for a while that they want to move to the new airport (World city?) or something.
 
User avatar
JannEejit
Posts: 1900
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:06 pm

LHR needs BA as much as BA needs LHR. I'm sure this lover's tiff will soon pass. As ever though, if your expensive operating base is costing too much, others are available. Although I suspect their unofficial moniker of 'London Airways' is under no threat here
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 4215
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:20 pm

This is a post for April 1.
 
727231
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:33 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:55 pm

not gunna happen!
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 535
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:33 pm

Its a worldwide thing, AMS also recently bumped up their airport fees and KL had a tantrum...cant imagine them leaving their homebase too

https://nltimes.nl/2021/10/30/airlines- ... s-schiphol
 
airbazar
Posts: 10623
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:42 pm

Moving some connecting traffic to a cheaper/better airport is not completely out of the realm of possibility. LH has been doing exactly that by moving some of their connecting traffic from FRA to MUC because of their beef with FRA.
The issue here is that BA is not likely to find a better airport to move to and "cheaper" is both relative and temporary. Lets say they move to MAD. What's the likelihood that MAD will also increase their fees after they move?
 
Clipper73
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:21 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:48 pm

frigatebird wrote:
I don't think the title of the article reflects Mr. Gallego's words correctly. As I read it, IAG are considering funnelling transit passengers (over 40%) through another hub. If they move them to another UK airport, for example LGW, people in Britain wouldn't be too concerned. But the possibilities at other UK airports are limited. Moving to MAD on the other hand, would be a major concern for British politicians. It would mean many BA destinations would move to IB and UX, and considerable loss of jobs for BA and LHR. BA would retain LHR for P2P traffic only. I think that is what IAG is considering (threatening?).



But that's silly in itself because I would assume that on every aircraft there is a considerable number of customers that are starting or ending their journey at Heathrow. It's not that cut and dry. So, say for instance what do you do with the 30% or 40% of the O/D on LHR-BNA or LHR-PIT that make those flights viable are they now forced to connect which in the end doesn't give BA an advantage on those routes.
 
PhilipBass
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:30 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:50 pm

downgrade to long range narrowbody at LHR or smaller widebody, filter through Madrid or Dublin. Adjust algorithms in booking engine to distribute traffic through other channels in the network.
British Airways retains slot, fills a narrowbody BA plane and increases load factor on a plane passing through another hub airport.
This seems credible.
Between an unfriendly government with high APD tax and unfriendly airport the IAG group are just looking after business.
 
F27500
Posts: 1058
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:52 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:35 pm

Uh .. right. Heathrow Airways leaving LHR? HA!
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 14428
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:38 pm

There's no story here. Not sure why someone would even bother writing an article about this.
 
F27500
Posts: 1058
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:52 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:53 pm

PhilipBass wrote:
downgrade to long range narrowbody at LHR or smaller widebody, filter through Madrid or Dublin. Adjust algorithms in booking engine to distribute traffic through other channels in the network.
British Airways retains slot, fills a narrowbody BA plane and increases load factor on a plane passing through another hub airport.
This seems credible.
Between an unfriendly government with high APD tax and unfriendly airport the IAG group are just looking after business.


I'm sure their pax will just love that .. getting on a crammed A320 LHR-MAD ... to connect to a JFK flight. You're kidding, right?
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 7877
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:17 am

720B wrote:
As per link below, British Airways is mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR as result of the expensive fees for airlines.

https://airwaysmag.com/airports/ba-cons ... qAkkdIrBpQ

I heard they're working on a 6 runway airport in Exter...
 
Wednesdayite
Posts: 309
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:28 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:28 am

TWA772LR wrote:
720B wrote:
As per link below, British Airways is mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR as result of the expensive fees for airlines.

https://airwaysmag.com/airports/ba-cons ... qAkkdIrBpQ

I heard they're working on a 6 runway airport in Exter...


Had the same thought.

That dude had vision.
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:37 am

Taking all the hyperbole out of it, it could work to funnel connecting passengers via a different hub. For example, you keep P2P flights to LHR but if you have passengers who transit to an Euro destination, you could funnel them via MAD. The same might be true for destinations to say Africa which are closer to MAD than LHR.

Lots of possibilities and it would mean reductions in staffing at LHR but enough traffic remains for them to retain their slots.
 
AngMoh
Posts: 1163
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:03 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:58 am

airbazar wrote:
Moving some connecting traffic to a cheaper/better airport is not completely out of the realm of possibility. LH has been doing exactly that by moving some of their connecting traffic from FRA to MUC because of their beef with FRA.
The issue here is that BA is not likely to find a better airport to move to and "cheaper" is both relative and temporary. Lets say they move to MAD. What's the likelihood that MAD will also increase their fees after they move?


Moving from FRA to MUC is a very different scenario. MUC and FRA are the main airports in Germany and MUC is a high yield high volume end destination. It is just shifting available seats by increasing and decreasing aircraft sizes in both places. On top of that, FRA and MUC are relatively close and transit in MUC is much easier than FRA (if I have the option, I transit in MUC and I have done that a few times). What would be the same is LH moving transit passengers from FRA to BER or HAM: that will not happen anytime soon.

AF/KL is doing something similar by shifting transit between CDG and AMS and reverse. Again, not a major issue.

BA shifting transit from LHR to DUB and MAD makes no sense. No-one is going to fly PHL to MAD to transfer to PRG. It is a huge detour. DUB is just too small.
 
User avatar
spinotter
Posts: 923
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:19 am

TWA772LR wrote:
720B wrote:
As per link below, British Airways is mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR as result of the expensive fees for airlines.

https://airwaysmag.com/airports/ba-cons ... qAkkdIrBpQ

I heard they're working on a 6 runway airport in Exter...


Exter?
 
skipness1E
Posts: 5097
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:27 am

Reading comprehension is beyond some people.
BA looking to reduce dependency on LHR is not the same thing as BA leaving LHR. Utter clickbait at best, trolling at worst.
 
BarrenLucidity
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:29 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:31 am

I'd gladly fly through MAD for a bit if this tantrum lasts. No real reason to prefer a T3-T5 bus transfer vs T4-T4s.
 
User avatar
Rookie87
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:33 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:57 am

Would be funny if LGW welcomed BA with open arms somehow to make this a reality lol
 
miegapele
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:24 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:22 am

So BA wants to give up LHR slots if fees are not reduced? Yeah, sure, that makes sense... If you're 3 years old
 
jetwet1
Posts: 3445
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:04 am

spinotter wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
720B wrote:
As per link below, British Airways is mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR as result of the expensive fees for airlines.

https://airwaysmag.com/airports/ba-cons ... qAkkdIrBpQ

I heard they're working on a 6 runway airport in Exter...


Exter?


A'Net joke, a while back someone came up with the idea of closing LHR and replacing it with a new airport at Exeter..... You can guess the response to that idea.

As it is, when flying from the US west coast to anywhere other than LHR the BA website already pushes for a connection anywhere but LHR.
 
User avatar
spinotter
Posts: 923
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:17 am

jetwet1 wrote:
spinotter wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
I heard they're working on a 6 runway airport in Exter...


Exter?


A'Net joke, a while back someone came up with the idea of closing LHR and replacing it with a new airport at Exeter..... You can guess the response to that idea.

As it is, when flying from the US west coast to anywhere other than LHR the BA website already pushes for a connection anywhere but LHR.


I knew about the 6 runways, and I once bicycled through the city of Exeter - a quiet place nothing like an airline hub.

But BA could transfer as many IAG passengers as possible via LGW, MAD, DUB, MAN, HEL and so on - probably saving money in the process -and they could even avoid the third runway issue and be seen to be eco-conscious in this way. A possible strategy, but I fear that LHR is too much a part of their DNA.
 
slinky09
Posts: 665
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:03 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:33 am

How do LHR fees compare to other European hubs? BA has a point, Heathrow has substantially increased fees and threatens to increase them more if runway 3 is ever built, plus the airport is now charging passengers for drop offs and no doubt looking to cream wherever it can because it can't manage it's own costs well. BA will not leave of course, but to say there's no story is wrong - rising costs are something any good business seeks ways to mitigate and if channelling connections through MAD or DUB is an option why not?
 
Blerg
Posts: 5269
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:38 am

BA might need LHR but IAG has options. They don't have to de-hub LHR, they just need to invest more in EI and IB which will then naturally shift transfer passengers away from LHR. In addition to that, BA can put a greater focus on other airports like LGW. This is something LHR knows and why I think this threat isn't as innocent as some make it out to be.

The network out of LHR will most likely still have transfers but much less than before. Capacity can be reduced to reflect the new reality and there we go. A route that was once operated with the A321 will become A320, A320 will be turned to A319 while A319 routes will either get cut or reduced to some regional jet.
BA will still keep their frequencies out of LHR while the airport will earn less money.

After all, didn't IB just announce a whole round of new destinations in the US? ;)
 
FluidFlow
Posts: 1222
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:59 am

F27500 wrote:
PhilipBass wrote:
downgrade to long range narrowbody at LHR or smaller widebody, filter through Madrid or Dublin. Adjust algorithms in booking engine to distribute traffic through other channels in the network.
British Airways retains slot, fills a narrowbody BA plane and increases load factor on a plane passing through another hub airport.
This seems credible.
Between an unfriendly government with high APD tax and unfriendly airport the IAG group are just looking after business.


I'm sure their pax will just love that .. getting on a crammed A320 LHR-MAD ... to connect to a JFK flight. You're kidding, right?


I dont think you understand what BA could do.

The flight LHR-JFK will still be there so no need to fly LHR-MAD-JFK but what would change is that XXX-LHR-JFK would be replaced with XXX-MAD-JFK or XXX-DUB-JFK.

What would be needed to do that? Use smaller aircraft on many routes, order some A220s and convert the VLAs on order to 787s and 350s. Focus completely on O&D and high yielding connecting traffic.

Interestingly enough this could work very well if planned and executed properly, especially if you dump the trash yielding connections on the LCCs in the group (vueling and level). They can steer booking and form three groups (vueling and level for the lowest yields, iberia and aer lingus for the medium to high yields, and BA for the very high yields). I believe at the moment BA still takes a lot of medium yielding connection passengers, sometimes even low yielding ones to fill aircraft on certain days. So by optimising the fleet towards smaller long haul operations (XLR, 789, 359 instead of 781, 35K, 777s and 380s) the slots and routes can be maintained but the lower fares can be cut. Sure it will be bad for price sensitive London based travelers but there is always an other carrier that will happily suck up that traffic.
 
Bongodog49
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:35 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:03 am

spinotter wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
spinotter wrote:

Exter?


A'Net joke, a while back someone came up with the idea of closing LHR and replacing it with a new airport at Exeter..... You can guess the response to that idea.

As it is, when flying from the US west coast to anywhere other than LHR the BA website already pushes for a connection anywhere but LHR.


I knew about the 6 runways, and I once bicycled through the city of Exeter - a quiet place nothing like an airline hub.

But BA could transfer as many IAG passengers as possible via LGW, MAD, DUB, MAN, HEL and so on - probably saving money in the process -and they could even avoid the third runway issue and be seen to be eco-conscious in this way. A possible strategy, but I fear that LHR is too much a part of their DNA.


You must have cycled through Exeter out of University term times, when the students are there it is very busy, also thoussands of the students are foreign so there is a bit of potential demand, but not 6 runways worth.

As to BA and their gripe with LHR, this has been rumbling on for ages now. The owners of LHR seem to have a very strange attitude to how businesses pay for capital investments.
The norm is to pay for capital works such as a new runway from a mixture of retained profits, bank loans and newly issued chare capital, customers are only asked to contribute if they are going to get a high degree of exclusivity from the works.
LHR want to raise the landing fees on the existing runways to astronomical levels in order to raise money for the new one with no guarantee that the airlines paying now will get anything for their money.
Indeed the present users will likely suffer from a new runway, slots which have traditionally changed hands for lots of money will be worthless due to the new ones created plus they will have felt the pain for a decade paying big fees only to watch new entrants flying in who have contributed nothing.
 
User avatar
eurotrader85
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:45 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:21 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Nothing more than a small child having a tantrum. London simply doesn't have the spare airport capacity for a BA sized airline anywhere other than Heathrow.
Heathrow knows it. BA knows it. IAG knows it. Oneworld know it. All their competitors knows it. UK Govt knows it.
Just let the small child scream and shout on the floor.... and if they realise nobody is paying any attention, the tantrum will eventually stop


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

frigatebird wrote:
I don't think the title of the article reflects Mr. Gallego's words correctly. As I read it, IAG are considering funnelling transit passengers (over 40%) through another hub. If they move them to another UK airport, for example LGW, people in Britain wouldn't be too concerned. But the possibilities at other UK airports are limited. Moving to MAD on the other hand, would be a major concern for British politicians. It would mean many BA destinations would move to IB and UX, and considerable loss of jobs for BA and LHR. BA would retain LHR for P2P traffic only. I think that is what IAG is considering (threatening?).


This has been mooted in the past, for the group to expand out of MAD instead of LHR back when WW was head of IAG, but then the reason was because of the delays to the third runway, and of course, was nonsense. Now we have an all IB management team trying the same line. It didn’t stack up then and it doesn’t now. Taking their IB pride out of the equation, LHR is a stronger hub in terms of O&D and transit traffic than MAD could ever be, apart from to LATAM, which MAD already is the defacto hub for the group. North American traffic, Asian traffic and business O&D are never going to be as strong out of MAD as LHR. And that is the point. You can’t just move out ‘transfer traffic’ to some other preconceived idea of a place. O&D and transfer feed off each other in terms of long-haul destinations and short-haul frequency, which MAD will just never be able to support to the same level.

For those making a cosmetic argument in their opinion that T4/T4s looks nicer to transit through than T5/T3, again that misses the point. If you fly in on a slightly delayed long-haul to connect onto a short-haul destination, then going through LHR with its 5/6 daily frequencies to said destination is far more convenient and efficient than going via MAD with its 2-3 and sitting around MAD for 5-6 hours waiting for the next flight rather than 2-3 hours at LHR. Thus LHR is always going to be the major hub for the IAG group and arguments to the contrary are just hollow. DUB, let's just not even pretend.
 
JibberJim
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:33 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:55 am

Isn't a large amount of the transit at LHR due to the very high frequency flights between LHR and a few North American cities, and the huge number of seats that are available in the back of those planes in addition to the premium seats which is what demand the frequency. BA can't reduce the frequency on those, (or the customers go elsewhere) so to reduce capacity they can't simply downgauge their aircraft, they have to reconfigure them to even higher density premium cabins, which seems an expensive capital expenditure for not a whole lot of benefit.

How much of the 40% connecting doesn't involve a North American City-LHR leg?
 
720B
Topic Author
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:52 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:22 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Reading comprehension is beyond some people.
BA looking to reduce dependency on LHR is not the same thing as BA leaving LHR. Utter clickbait at best, trolling at worst.

\
No need to insult, really

Manners and arrogance are beyond some people
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10480
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:15 pm

Blerg wrote:
BA might need LHR but IAG has options. They don't have to de-hub LHR, they just need to invest more in EI and IB which will then naturally shift transfer passengers away from LHR. In addition to that, BA can put a greater focus on other airports like LGW. This is something LHR knows and why I think this threat isn't as innocent as some make it out to be.

The network out of LHR will most likely still have transfers but much less than before. Capacity can be reduced to reflect the new reality and there we go. A route that was once operated with the A321 will become A320, A320 will be turned to A319 while A319 routes will either get cut or reduced to some regional jet.
BA will still keep their frequencies out of LHR while the airport will earn less money.

After all, didn't IB just announce a whole round of new destinations in the US? ;)


Nope. Downgauging increases CASM. Marginal flights get cut. Destinations get cut. Hub connectivity decreases. Each new cut reinforces the death spiral. See the history of how DL went from 600 flights a day at CVG to 80. Ask yourself why some much BA TATL runs from LHR vs. MAN/BHX/BFS... A hub carrier starts flights at another hub chasing non-stop fare premiums, not so much passenger fee arbitrage.

IAG runs connections thru LHR today because it is the most efficient option, building on the LON O&D. Every other option is less efficient. Regulators or airport operators could change the calculus if fees went up 500% but a 5GBP increase per passenger segment does not.

BA getting other carriers to boycott, too, would be collusion.
 
acavpics
Posts: 633
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:54 am

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:39 pm

And... where on Earth would they go?

Sure. I get that fees at Heathrow are very high. But really, the day BA would leave LHR is would be the day they cease operations.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 11051
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:49 pm

Now that the UK is out of the EU, how would such a move affect the pax experience on flights to the continent, whether from LHR or elsewhere?
 
commpilot
Posts: 158
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:21 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:54 pm

Let them go and build a mega terminal at Gatwick and move everything there.... with their 1 runway. Flights will be delayed for 3 days before they'd get a slot to take off. Very sound business sense.. leaving Heathrow.
 
Metchalus
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:46 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:54 pm

SonomaFlyer wrote:
Taking all the hyperbole out of it, it could work to funnel connecting passengers via a different hub. For example, you keep P2P flights to LHR but if you have passengers who transit to an Euro destination, you could funnel them via MAD. The same might be true for destinations to say Africa which are closer to MAD than LHR.


But for that to happen they'd have to operate a flight from an origin city to both LHR and MAD.
P2P and transit pax both travel on the same plane. Splitting them into separate two seperate flights will increase costs and could lead to both flights being loss making.
 
Metchalus
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:46 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:58 pm

acavpics wrote:
And... where on Earth would they go?

Sure. I get that fees at Heathrow are very high. But really, the day BA would leave LHR is would be the day they cease operations.


I don't believe that they are threatening to leave entirely, but to increase investment in airports other than Heathrow. Mainly LGW.
 
User avatar
vhtje
Posts: 1360
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:40 pm

Re: British Airways mulling (threatening?) to leave LHR

Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:19 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Which transit routes can be moved from LHR to MAD ? The only ones that might make sense to move are SCL, EZE and GIG (note - I have excluded GRU + MEX because LA + AM also fly the routes non-stop in competition).... and even then it would be a bit self-defeating financially as BA then open themselves up to competition from AF/KL and LH
The last time BA moved some West African routes from LHR to LGW, there was a major political reaction in West Africa.... only for BA to back down and restore the routes to LHR
If BA drop non-stop routes between Heathrow and Morocco+Portugal+Spain, the likes of Easyjet, Ryanair and TUI will be only too happy to take the business - or BA can move the routes to LCY + LGW instead... but that still leaves BA having to deal with the 80% use-it-or-lose-it rule on LHR slots when the Covid exemption ceases


BA (as does AF and LH, and, of course the ME3) makes a lot of money shifting passengers from North America to Asia and Africa. Pre-COVID, if you flew SFO to LHR, say, a lot of the passengers one met onboard had onward connections to Asia and Africa, to India and Pakistan especially. I think it is this traffic that IAG is referring to.

But IAG threatening it as leverage against Heathrow Airpot Holdings Ltd, and actually doing it, are two completely different things. For one thing, IB doesn't have the network and penetration in these markets that BA does. And then there's the onboard IB experience... which customer would willingly choose IB over BA on a 24+ hour journey? I can't see it, unless one was a sadist, or really really really wanted to save some money because the IB fare was cheaper. I love my BA Executive Club miles, but if I was going SFO to DEL and BA via LHR wasn't offered, but IB via MAD was, I'd book with QR via DOH, thanks. Screw the miles, I'd even choose LH or SQ over IB, if QR was too pricey. And I only fly J on long haul! My percetion of IB is really that bad.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos