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CapStar362
Topic Author
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:02 pm

Location of this Incident

Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:31 am

hey yall, long time viewer, never really been here on the forums.

a recent discussion has brought up this incident:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRIqZfqru2o

can anyone tell me where this happened and when?

I cannot find a single shred of evidence on this tug jack knifing and causing the nose wheel to be forcibly replaced.

Even ASN does not have this one logged.
 
guppyflyer
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:41 pm

Re: Location of this Incident

Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:43 am

JFK
 
airsmiles
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:14 pm

Re: Location of this Incident

Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:42 am

That A380 livery doesn’t look right. Has this video been edited from one showing another similar incident?
 
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VirginFlyer
Posts: 5756
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: Location of this Incident

Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:03 pm

airsmiles wrote:
That A380 livery doesn’t look right. Has this video been edited from one showing another similar incident?

Looks like the standard old Lufthansa livery to me?

V/F
 
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zeke
Posts: 16704
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Location of this Incident

Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:13 pm

CapStar362 wrote:
hey yall, long time viewer, never really been here on the forums.

a recent discussion has brought up this incident:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRIqZfqru2o

can anyone tell me where this happened and when?

I cannot find a single shred of evidence on this tug jack knifing and causing the nose wheel to be forcibly replaced.

Even ASN does not have this one logged.


I don’t think it is real, the nose gear has tow angle limits, that shows something that has exceeded those limits significantly which will damage the nose gear.

Image
 
airsmiles
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:14 pm

Re: Location of this Incident

Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:17 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
airsmiles wrote:
That A380 livery doesn’t look right. Has this video been edited from one showing another similar incident?

Looks like the standard old Lufthansa livery to me?

V/F


Maybe it’s the light but it looks photoshopped to me.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2656
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Location of this Incident

Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:23 pm

zeke wrote:
CapStar362 wrote:
hey yall, long time viewer, never really been here on the forums.

a recent discussion has brought up this incident:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRIqZfqru2o

can anyone tell me where this happened and when?

I cannot find a single shred of evidence on this tug jack knifing and causing the nose wheel to be forcibly replaced.

Even ASN does not have this one logged.


I don’t think it is real, the nose gear has tow angle limits, that shows something that has exceeded those limits significantly which will damage the nose gear.

Image

Can the nose gear exceed the tow limit, suffer significant damage that will require its replacement yet remain structurally sound enough to support the weight of the plane and the force of the traction? I don't recall anything that would prevent that, I somehow remember the steering mechanism to be able to sheer off the center tube in such cases.
 
guppyflyer
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:41 pm

Re: Location of this Incident

Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:31 am

The A320 fleet has had a number of landing incidents with the nose gear turned 90 degrees.....not saying this video is real, but it is possible for the nose gear to go beyond the towing limits. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epKrA8KjYvg
 
SMYD
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat May 22, 2021 4:40 pm

Re: Location of this Incident

Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:35 am

The MD11/DC10 is particularly susceptible to this type of tug jackknifing. The steering actuators and torque linkage are typically destroyed when this happens but the nose gear typically doesn't collapse. The aircraft can usually be towed a hangar for repair/nose gear replacement.
 
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zeke
Posts: 16704
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Location of this Incident

Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:09 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Can the nose gear exceed the tow limit, suffer significant damage that will require its replacement yet remain structurally sound enough to support the weight of the plane and the force of the traction? I don't recall anything that would prevent that, I somehow remember the steering mechanism to be able to sheer off the center tube in such cases.


You would need to stop and do and inspection, there is a procedure in the AMM for it. You dont continue on like nothing happened.

Keep in mind there is also someone in the cockpit during towing, there is an indicator on the overhead panel for the exceedance.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2656
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Location of this Incident

Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:20 pm

SMYD wrote:
The MD11/DC10 is particularly susceptible to this type of tug jackknifing. The steering actuators and torque linkage are typically destroyed when this happens but the nose gear typically doesn't collapse. The aircraft can usually be towed a hangar for repair/nose gear replacement.

That's exactly what I asked, thanks for this info. Not sure if it applies to the A380 though, per zeke.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2656
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Location of this Incident

Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:21 pm

zeke wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Can the nose gear exceed the tow limit, suffer significant damage that will require its replacement yet remain structurally sound enough to support the weight of the plane and the force of the traction? I don't recall anything that would prevent that, I somehow remember the steering mechanism to be able to sheer off the center tube in such cases.


You would need to stop and do and inspection, there is a procedure in the AMM for it. You dont continue on like nothing happened.

Keep in mind there is also someone in the cockpit during towing, there is an indicator on the overhead panel for the exceedance.

If this happens on an active runway, you block it then?
I agree there is plenty of inspection and repair that's needed; but the plane can't even be towed to a hangar for that? It has to be done on site?
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Posts: 1334
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: Location of this Incident

Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:18 pm

From one of the comments on YouTube:

This was at JFK, that camera is one of the ramp control cameras for Terminal 7. This was several years ago.


I can't confirm. Can someone else?
 
twincommander
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:54 pm

Re: Location of this Incident

Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:52 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
zeke wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Can the nose gear exceed the tow limit, suffer significant damage that will require its replacement yet remain structurally sound enough to support the weight of the plane and the force of the traction? I don't recall anything that would prevent that, I somehow remember the steering mechanism to be able to sheer off the center tube in such cases.


You would need to stop and do and inspection, there is a procedure in the AMM for it. You dont continue on like nothing happened.

Keep in mind there is also someone in the cockpit during towing, there is an indicator on the overhead panel for the exceedance.

If this happens on an active runway, you block it then?
I agree there is plenty of inspection and repair that's needed; but the plane can't even be towed to a hangar for that? It has to be done on site?


Yes, they should have stopped and done a visual of the whole nose gear and surrounding structure prior to continuing. The nose gear could have collapsed, then it would be a much bigger blockage to deal with than possibly losing a runway and taxiway for an hour.
 
TUGMASTER
Posts: 1541
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:56 pm

Re: Location of this Incident

Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:03 pm

zeke wrote:
You would need to stop and do and inspection, there is a procedure in the AMM for it. You dont continue on like nothing happened.
Keep in mind there is also someone in the cockpit during towing, there is an indicator on the overhead panel for the exceedance.


Absolutely you stop / inspect etc, and everybody in the world would be out their too.
If you’re using a TBL type of tug, brake riders no longer needed in the flight deck.They were only there for a towbar break/Shear, to literally stop the aircraft.
 
Fixinthe757
Posts: 274
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Location of this Incident

Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:14 pm

Going out on a limb here and say the video is not real. The tow bar would no longer be usable as it has shear bolts that would pretty much render it useless for towing. The amount that tug turned around and the tow bar still attached is impossible. In my 30 years of towing aircraft, yes you can exceed the limits, but no the gear wont collapse. Depending on how much it gets exceeded the steering actuators can be damaged, resulting in hyd leakage once hydraulics were turned on. The scissor links would also be damaged in that they can only turn so much as well. Also in exceeding the limits the risk is very high in doing internal damage to the strut centering cam. The cam causes the strut to center when fully extended. I also dont that type of tug able to go the speed it "appeared" to be going towing an A380, nor turning completely around. Notice too how the plane started moving backwards as soon as the tug started turning. With a sheared/destroyed tow bar, that isnt happening. And no Ive never exceeded the limits on a plane Ive towed (before anyone ask) 8-)
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2656
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Location of this Incident

Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:43 pm

Fixinthe757 wrote:
Going out on a limb here and say the video is not real. The tow bar would no longer be usable as it has shear bolts that would pretty much render it useless for towing. The amount that tug turned around and the tow bar still attached is impossible. In my 30 years of towing aircraft, yes you can exceed the limits, but no the gear wont collapse. Depending on how much it gets exceeded the steering actuators can be damaged, resulting in hyd leakage once hydraulics were turned on. The scissor links would also be damaged in that they can only turn so much as well. Also in exceeding the limits the risk is very high in doing internal damage to the strut centering cam. The cam causes the strut to center when fully extended. I also dont that type of tug able to go the speed it "appeared" to be going towing an A380, nor turning completely around. Notice too how the plane started moving backwards as soon as the tug started turning. With a sheared/destroyed tow bar, that isnt happening. And no Ive never exceeded the limits on a plane Ive towed (before anyone ask) 8-)

I agree the video doesn't look real.
But this is a towbarless tug, that lifts the nose wheel and straps it; so, all the discussion about tow bars is moot.
 
jimmy9irons
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:28 pm

Re: Location of this Incident

Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:03 pm

Comments state the nose gear was replaced

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