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chiad
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Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:16 am

Very scarce info, but according to Reuters and Interfax Ukraine, the Ukrainian government has signed a MoU with Airbus for 22 planes intended for the creation of a new national carrier.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-11-25/

https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/economic/781958.html
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:26 am

What is this new national carrier that Zelensky keeps mentioning as opposed to UIA, or any of Windrose, Air Ocean, Motor Sich, SkyUp and Bees ? Why does Zelensky want it ?
 
T4thH
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:18 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
What is this new national carrier that Zelensky keeps mentioning as opposed to UIA, or any of Windrose, Air Ocean, Motor Sich, SkyUp and Bees ? Why does Zelensky want it ?

To support the Ukrainian plane manufacturers and to buy the 22 planes from Airbus, to fill up the gaps of plane sizes, which can not be filled by the own industry?

And it also sounds la little bit like, that Ukraine/the manufacturers shall get part of the big European Airbus manufacturer family.
As European/German, I have to say, I am fine with it.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:39 am

I wonder if Antonov's sites in Ukraine could manufacture for Airbus now that their ability to sell into Russia is curtailed by political issues?
 
LifelinerOne
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:07 pm

According to Interfax Ukraine, the deal is for 6 A220s, 12 A320neo-family and four A330 or A350s.

https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/ukra ... al-airline

Cheers! :wave:
 
T4thH
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:24 pm

LifelinerOne wrote:
According to Interfax Ukraine, the deal is for 6 A220s, 12 A320neo-family and four A330 or A350s.

https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/ukra ... al-airline

Cheers! :wave:

Nice small order (for a "national" airline for a country with the size of the Ukraine). Together with some Antonov jets/turboprops for the national regional connections, it shall work.
 
behramjee
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:47 pm

LifelinerOne wrote:
According to Interfax Ukraine, the deal is for 6 A220s, 12 A320neo-family and four A330 or A350s.

https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/ukra ... al-airline

Cheers! :wave:


For what purpose do they really need 4 wide body aircraft for? They tried in the past and failed big time operating B767/B777s same plane service YYZ-KBP-DEL along with a couple of U.S. routes. Best is to code share with another EU or U.S. carrier for trans-atlantic feed.

Fleet wise, it would have been best just to stick with 10 A223s + 4 A320Neos + 4 A321Neos to cater for all the various market segments from small to medium to high demand.
 
chiad
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:29 pm

LifelinerOne wrote:
and four A330 or A350s....


What is this? Will they flip a coin on that?
:cheeky:
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:46 pm

Just a reminder that this is a Civil Aviation topic. Political discussion belongs in Non Av.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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Alsatian
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:03 pm

The wide-bodies could also be used on high Ukrainian leisure markets such as Turkey, Greece or Egypt.
 
opticalilyushin
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:08 pm

Is this to replace UIA?
 
AMP44
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:04 pm

opticalilyushin wrote:
Is this to replace UIA?

UIA was government owned until 2011, now they are owned by the Privat group (owned by Ihor Kolomoyskyi). They also own Windrose and the defunct Donbassaero, Dniproavia and Aerosvit.

This new airline would compete with UIA.

Could this be the return of Air Ukraine? Which was the original Ukrainian Babyflot.
 
slawko
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:15 pm

Some additional details here (use google translate).

https://www.avianews.com/ukraine/2021/1 ... _borispol/
 
T4thH
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:50 pm

slawko wrote:
Some additional details here (use google translate).

https://www.avianews.com/ukraine/2021/1 ... _borispol/

Intersting; but it seems not to match to the published details of the MOU with Airbus. The A220 is missing in this one.
It named additional turboprops for the regional/domestc transport in the ATR-72 size.

(And I hope to see some Antonovs)
 
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MillwallSean
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:54 pm

Actually run right without political interference (and current border concerns) an airline in Ukraine has quite a few things going for it.
Lowest cost base in Europe.
Decent geographical position for flights eastwards, think BKK for example.
Sizeable home market with a pretty large diaspora
Decent inbound tourism market (especially from the gulf - most Europeans don't know or understand the number of tourists visiting Armenia/Georgia/Ukraine from the gulf - often these aren't Gulf Arabs but usually migrant labourers who can obtain Visa free entry by showing residents in the gulf states usually)

I truly hope that Ukraine uses its favourable geographical position to develop a decent airline. They have lot of potential to do so but have sadly been plagued by corruption and vested interests in their airlines so far. With a tad of luck maybe that can change eventually.

and for those of you that havent travelled. Kiev is a future stagparty heaven and a great place to visit. Lvov feels like central Europe but a tad quiet and Odessa makes an old man young again...
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:04 pm

I agree with Sean about many of the plus points for Ukraine. There are however two issues
1 - Will the new Ukrainian National Airlines be state owned or private sector ? If it's state owned, there will almost certainly be strong political interference
2 - Ukraine will be able to compete on flights between western Europe and places in Asia east of India only if they can make peace with Russia and have rights to fly through Russian airspace at reasonable cost.
 
Breathe
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:00 am

MillwallSean wrote:
and for those of you that havent travelled. Kiev is a future stagparty heaven and a great place to visit.


As someone who lives in a city that pre-pandemic was plagued by drunken stag and hen party groups, I'm not sure this is something the locals would necessarily welcome! :twisted:

MillwallSean wrote:
Lvov feels like central Europe but a tad quiet and Odessa makes an old man young again...

A can't tell if this is an innocent comment or something a bit more creepy! :shock: :mrgreen:
 
SEU
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:52 am

So what is happening to UIA?
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:27 am

T4thH wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
What is this new national carrier that Zelensky keeps mentioning as opposed to UIA, or any of Windrose, Air Ocean, Motor Sich, SkyUp and Bees ? Why does Zelensky want it ?

To support the Ukrainian plane manufacturers and to buy the 22 planes from Airbus, to fill up the gaps of plane sizes, which can not be filled by the own industry?

And it also sounds la little bit like, that Ukraine/the manufacturers shall get part of the big European Airbus manufacturer family.
As European/German, I have to say, I am fine with it.


So you're happy with offshoring jobs from European/German workers to Ukraine?
 
JonesNL
Posts: 482
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:23 am

Kiwirob wrote:
T4thH wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
What is this new national carrier that Zelensky keeps mentioning as opposed to UIA, or any of Windrose, Air Ocean, Motor Sich, SkyUp and Bees ? Why does Zelensky want it ?

To support the Ukrainian plane manufacturers and to buy the 22 planes from Airbus, to fill up the gaps of plane sizes, which can not be filled by the own industry?

And it also sounds la little bit like, that Ukraine/the manufacturers shall get part of the big European Airbus manufacturer family.
As European/German, I have to say, I am fine with it.


So you're happy with offshoring jobs from European/German workers to Ukraine?


Creating a more wealthy neighbour creates bigger trade opportunities. Economically it is a net benefit and it also prevents mass migration as wealthy middle class tend to migrate less...
 
T4thH
Posts: 1333
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:21 am

Kiwirob wrote:
T4thH wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
What is this new national carrier that Zelensky keeps mentioning as opposed to UIA, or any of Windrose, Air Ocean, Motor Sich, SkyUp and Bees ? Why does Zelensky want it ?

To support the Ukrainian plane manufacturers and to buy the 22 planes from Airbus, to fill up the gaps of plane sizes, which can not be filled by the own industry?

And it also sounds la little bit like, that Ukraine/the manufacturers shall get part of the big European Airbus manufacturer family.
As European/German, I have to say, I am fine with it.


So you're happy with offshoring jobs from European/German workers to Ukraine?

???? Is it possible, you have not understood, what the Airbus project is? Half of the world is delivering parts for Airbus planes, if the Ukraine/Antonov are part of it, why not? If they are able to produce parts in according quality and number for an according price, why not? If the Ukrainian government asks for support/cooperation with Antonov, to support the Antonov products, why not. This will be for benefit for Airbus also, they will sell parts and engines e.g., will be paid. Antonov has regional jets and turboprops, so, in worst case it will reduce the number of planes, ATR will sell, but these will be low numbers and for markets, Airbus/ATR will not be able to reach, so why not? And if they will fly around, with parts, produced in the EU, why not.

Think global and not national/small.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:12 am

JonesNL wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
T4thH wrote:
To support the Ukrainian plane manufacturers and to buy the 22 planes from Airbus, to fill up the gaps of plane sizes, which can not be filled by the own industry?

And it also sounds la little bit like, that Ukraine/the manufacturers shall get part of the big European Airbus manufacturer family.
As European/German, I have to say, I am fine with it.


So you're happy with offshoring jobs from European/German workers to Ukraine?


Creating a more wealthy neighbour creates bigger trade opportunities. Economically it is a net benefit and it also prevents mass migration as wealthy middle class tend to migrate less...


Good luck dealing with them, I've been working with shipyards in Ukraine since 2008, the incompetence and corruption is on a scale beyond anything else I've encountered. Ukraine when it left the Soviet Union had some of the largest and most modern shipbuilding facilities in Europe, they had a very lost cost base and a highly skilled workforce, what they didn't have was honest and competent management, now the Ukrainian shipbuilding industry is dead, sad when these yards with competent management and owners could have been Europe's answer to China, Korea and Japan.
 
Fliplot
Posts: 614
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Re: Ukrainian government sign MoU with Airbus for 22 aircraft

Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:05 pm

I would suggest that this is an attempt by Ukrain to ease the near monopoly control the Oligarchs have on business in general, including aviation. I am not suggesting that government owned will mean no corruption, I am suggesting the pie might be more evenly spread!

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