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Opus99
Topic Author
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Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:27 am

https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 81188?s=21

From next year Eva Air plans to replace the 777-300ER with the 787-10 on these routes.

The 787-10 has been flying these routes almost daily but cargo only for over a year now.

Interesting to see that EVA plans to now have them on the passenger operations as well.

The routes are almost 10,000KM

Which begs the question, what role can we see the 787-10 playing in the 300ER replacement cycle? It’s not as capable but it’s also I think capable enough. It will lose out on the extremes but can handle most routes and as we know is extremely efficient
 
texl1649
Posts: 1960
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:38 am

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:08 pm

I’ve always felt the 787-10 model was somehow a bit ‘underwinged’ but maybe it really has just enough to work out some significant TransPac routes. ANZ I think is also using them as such. So many airlines have/use aircraft well below their payload range capabilities, it is nice to see some used to the maximum allowed, basically.
 
Scotron12
Posts: 592
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 pm

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:15 pm

Don't think ANZ has any yet. Ordered yes, but not delivered

Only big international airlines are EY & UA. EY did fly their B787-10 to Australia...of course with a very light load.
 
Opus99
Topic Author
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Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:17 pm

Scotron12 wrote:
Don't think ANZ has any yet. Ordered yes, but not delivered

Only big international airlines are EY & UA. EY did fly their B787-10 to Australia...of course with a very light load.

BA and KLM but not that far.

KLM uses theirs to LAX and SFO

BA to SEA or DFW
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 397
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:25 pm

Interesting move but more fuel efficient seems to offset the lost cargo revenue?
 
Scotron12
Posts: 592
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 pm

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:26 pm

Was mainly to do with range. UA EWR-TLV being a long and challenging route, which they operate quite well with pax and cargo.

BA's B787-10s have no crew rest areas installed, AFAIR. SQ and ANA use them on regional flights, also SQ SIN-PER

Rgds
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4887
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:33 pm

texl1649 wrote:
I’ve always felt the 787-10 model was somehow a bit ‘underwinged’ but maybe it really has just enough to work out some significant TransPac routes. ANZ I think is also using them as such. So many airlines have/use aircraft well below their payload range capabilities, it is nice to see some used to the maximum allowed, basically.


Air New Zealand flies the 787-9, not the -10.
 
Opus99
Topic Author
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Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:02 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Interesting move but more fuel efficient seems to offset the lost cargo revenue?

Probably, they might invest more in the -10 over the coming years if that’s the trend they find in their network.

I expect many of the current -10 operators to do that
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10186
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:00 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Which begs the question, what role can we see the 787-10 playing in the 300ER replacement cycle? It’s not as capable but it’s also I think capable enough. It will lose out on the extremes but can handle most routes and as we know is extremely efficient


Some carriers will do a thorough review of payload-range charts and prospective (foregone) freight revenues. Which carriers with 787s in house or on order are using 77Ws on routes 10,000 +/- 500km?
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:21 pm

5500 nmi is about the limit with full pax and bags and meaningful cargo.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10186
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:26 pm

That's a useful reference but for some routes and some seasons carriers may decide passengers are a better return than cargo (or v.v).
 
CFWAD
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:36 pm

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:46 pm

BR had the 787-10 scheduled on the TPE-YVR from late Feb 2020 onwards; I guess this is just going back to what was originally planned pre-pandemic.

A shame, as I enjoyed the premium economy BR offered on their 77W out of YVR.
 
Opus99
Topic Author
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Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:14 pm

CFWAD wrote:
BR had the 787-10 scheduled on the TPE-YVR from late Feb 2020 onwards; I guess this is just going back to what was originally planned pre-pandemic.

A shame, as I enjoyed the premium economy BR offered on their 77W out of YVR.

It’s nice to see them using the 78X on that kind of route of almost 10,000km
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5873
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:55 pm

The TPE-SEA flights have been toggling between the 787-X and 787-9 for several months now. I think the SEA-TPE has been carrying some pax (maybe?). I know that the aircraft have been parking at the S concourse, as typical.
 
leftcoast8
Posts: 290
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Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:07 pm

CFWAD wrote:
BR had the 787-10 scheduled on the TPE-YVR from late Feb 2020 onwards; I guess this is just going back to what was originally planned pre-pandemic.

A shame, as I enjoyed the premium economy BR offered on their 77W out of YVR.


Y in BR 77Ws is 10-abreast, right? Is their Y+ cabin also cramped?
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:59 pm

Scotron12 wrote:
Don't think ANZ has any yet. Ordered yes, but not delivered

Only big international airlines are EY & UA. EY did fly their B787-10 to Australia...of course with a very light load.


I have to wonder why EY doesn't consider a premium-heavy B78X configuration, putting the first-class apartment in those planes (just 4-8 seats), then J, then Y.

As for West Coast to Asia, the B78X is capable. SFO or LAX is about the limit. Theoretically a premium-heavy B78X could work on a route like HND-JFK.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:07 am

leftcoast8 wrote:
Y in BR 77Ws is 10-abreast, right? Is their Y+ cabin also cramped?


9 or 10 abreast in Y depending on the configuration. According to SeatGuru they have one configuration with 10 abreast and the others are 9. When I’ve flown them between LAX and TPE it was 9 abreast, but the last time was in 2014.

8 abreast in Premium Economy in all configurations.
 
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christao17
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Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:54 am

Why are neither the 787-9 or 787-X at BR fitted with premium economy? They fly long-haul flights comparable to the 777-300er flights. BR's premium economy has always made them an attractive choice.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:00 am

Opus99 wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:
Don't think ANZ has any yet. Ordered yes, but not delivered

Only big international airlines are EY & UA. EY did fly their B787-10 to Australia...of course with a very light load.

BA and KLM but not that far.

KLM uses theirs to LAX and SFO

BA to SEA or DFW


No, BA uses theirs to BOS & DFW. Just flew it BOS-LHR.
 
Opus99
Topic Author
Posts: 2692
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:16 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:
Don't think ANZ has any yet. Ordered yes, but not delivered

Only big international airlines are EY & UA. EY did fly their B787-10 to Australia...of course with a very light load.

BA and KLM but not that far.

KLM uses theirs to LAX and SFO

BA to SEA or DFW


No, BA uses theirs to BOS & DFW. Just flew it BOS-LHR.

Yes you’re correct. It was previously SEA
 
WkndWanderer
Posts: 355
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:26 am

[twoid][/twoid]
Scotron12 wrote:
Was mainly to do with range. UA EWR-TLV being a long and challenging route, which they operate quite well with pax and cargo.

BA's B787-10s have no crew rest areas installed, AFAIR. SQ and ANA use them on regional flights, also SQ SIN-PER

Rgds


Do they block seats for crew rest? LHR-SEA can push 11 hours.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5873
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:28 am

Opus99 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
BA and KLM but not that far.

KLM uses theirs to LAX and SFO

BA to SEA or DFW


No, BA uses theirs to BOS & DFW. Just flew it BOS-LHR.

Yes you’re correct. It was previously SEA


Like EVA, BA also toggles between the 787-9 and 787-X between SEA and LHR.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 596
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:47 am

Shocking YVR and SEA get 787-10 but YYZ and ORD still get the 777-300ER. I assumed YVR and SEA would have more traffic to TPE.
 
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flyingclrs727
Posts: 2858
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Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:26 am

YYZORD wrote:
Shocking YVR and SEA get 787-10 but YYZ and ORD still get the 777-300ER. I assumed YVR and SEA would have more traffic to TPE.


They are further from TPE. The 787-10 doesn't have the payload range capability of the 77W. Also YVR and SEA are just a little over 100 miles from each other. A 787-10 to each is quite a bit of capacity in two hubs that are quite close to each other.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5873
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:24 pm

YYZORD wrote:
Shocking YVR and SEA get 787-10 but YYZ and ORD still get the 777-300ER. I assumed YVR and SEA would have more traffic to TPE.


EVA used to fly both 747-400's and 777-300ER's to SEA (I don't know about YVR). But since the pandemic hit, the aircraft became smaller. I think Taiwan still has travel restrictions and quarantine requirements.
 
casperCA
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:38 pm

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:32 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
Shocking YVR and SEA get 787-10 but YYZ and ORD still get the 777-300ER. I assumed YVR and SEA would have more traffic to TPE.


EVA used to fly both 747-400's and 777-300ER's to SEA (I don't know about YVR). But since the pandemic hit, the aircraft became smaller. I think Taiwan still has travel restrictions and quarantine requirements.


Pre-Covid the 747-400 and 777-300ER were regulars for them at YVR. In many cases China Airlines would be coming in at around the same time also with a 747-400 or similar. Air Canada also operated on that route usually with a 787. Not all flights were daily but clearly a lot of seats. Not clear how many of these were 0&D passengers vers connections.
 
alan3
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:13 am

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:43 pm

The biggest disappointment with EVA is that they chose to omit Premium Economy on all their 787's, but it is still featured on their 777-300ER. I still haven't heard the reason why.

This will be a big disappointment for many people from YVR. Speaking from experience, EVA's Premium Y is a very solid product.
 
tealnz
Posts: 654
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:47 am

Re: Eva Air SEA-TPE and YVR-TPE 787-10

Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:35 am

Air New Zealand briefly talked of retiring all its 77Ws and using the 787-10s it had on order to replace them. It was also reported at the time of the -10 order that Boeing was offering a range boost. Aircurrent reported this involved a MTOW boost to 260t.

But more recently:
- the airline has taken additional 789s rather than -10s
- the CEO has talked of bringing the remaining 77Ws back into service rather than retiring them
- there has been complete silence on whether Boeing is really offering a range extension for the -10.

Hard to avoid the conclusion that NZ has worked the numbers and realised that the -10 is marginal for Auckland-US west coast routes westbound with higher payloads. Experience over the past two years will have highlighted importance of cargo capacity on those routes. Bottom line is that if you want to carry full pax plus serious freight load on these routes the -10 is not the solution.

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