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redroo
Posts: 627
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:26 pm

tullamarine wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
I noticed that in yesterday's VA 'happy hour' sale every single fare had a travel period until late January, i.e. during the current/upcoming school holidays. I look at the 'happy hour' deals every week, and needless to say the deals are generally for travel in March, May etc, the slow travel months.

Am I reading too much into this, or is this a sign that forward bookings for this summer are very soft? Be it border uncertainty or people having already committed to local/drive holidays, I wonder if airlines are seeing weaker than expected demand.

I think you may be right. Lots of people from NSW and Victoria are nervous that the Qld border may snap shut on them and either leave them without a holiday or forced into quarantine during their holiday. VA,JQ and QF are probably guessing demand based on prior years but they know it is fluid at best.

Some of the rules make no sense. You have to get a PCR 3 days before arrival which is fair enough but you need a second test on Day 3. If I'm holidaying on Hamilton or Hayman Islands, where exactly do I go to get this test for the whole family? Even if I'm in Cairns where there are testing stations nearby, I may not be thrilled losing up to a day of my holiday waiting for test result given I assume you have to isolate between the time you take the test and get the result.


My parents went through this when they did UK Spain months ago. In the end the vacation was stressful because they were running around trying to get tests done. Plus the cost of all the tests was equivalent to the flights.

I want to travel but until it’s a “vacation” I am staying put. Sorry Qantas and Virgin!
 
smi0006
Posts: 2916
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:49 am

redroo wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
I noticed that in yesterday's VA 'happy hour' sale every single fare had a travel period until late January, i.e. during the current/upcoming school holidays. I look at the 'happy hour' deals every week, and needless to say the deals are generally for travel in March, May etc, the slow travel months.

Am I reading too much into this, or is this a sign that forward bookings for this summer are very soft? Be it border uncertainty or people having already committed to local/drive holidays, I wonder if airlines are seeing weaker than expected demand.

I think you may be right. Lots of people from NSW and Victoria are nervous that the Qld border may snap shut on them and either leave them without a holiday or forced into quarantine during their holiday. VA,JQ and QF are probably guessing demand based on prior years but they know it is fluid at best.

Some of the rules make no sense. You have to get a PCR 3 days before arrival which is fair enough but you need a second test on Day 3. If I'm holidaying on Hamilton or Hayman Islands, where exactly do I go to get this test for the whole family? Even if I'm in Cairns where there are testing stations nearby, I may not be thrilled losing up to a day of my holiday waiting for test result given I assume you have to isolate between the time you take the test and get the result.


My parents went through this when they did UK Spain months ago. In the end the vacation was stressful because they were running around trying to get tests done. Plus the cost of all the tests was equivalent to the flights.

I want to travel but until it’s a “vacation” I am staying put. Sorry Qantas and Virgin!


Same I was desperate to go overseas, and considering short Singapore trip - but when I looked (and it’s probably changed again) I would have needed a min of 6 tests for a five day trip, plus isolation back in SYD for 72hrs, simply was too expensive and wasn’t worth it.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:54 am

marcogr12 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Capacity wars are set to resume as REX plans to grow it's 737 fleet from 6 to 14 in 2022. REX will be serving all capital cities and many secondary cities according to Sharp. This growth has come with Virgin also increasing it's 737 fleet from 56 to 84. All this capacity increase will put pressure on margins but likely be a windfall to consumers.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/ ... m-6-to-14/

Bonza also plans to rapidly expand its fleet from 2 to 8 737s in the first year. It says it fares will be 40% cheaper than the competition another win for the consumer. They are very confident that their business model will work but it's very early days yet time will tell if this turns out to be true or not.

https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/ ... match-rex/

Technically if Bonza wants to match Rex planned 737 fleet it will also have to grow to 14 frames.


Well, if Bonza stick to their plan to serve regional markets that are underserved or not served at all and not focus on the usual MEL/SYD/BNE etc, there may be chances of success. What i do doubt is if the 738 is the right plane, too big maybe, or if they should start with sth smaller ..A319/737-700/E-195LR..The A220-300 would be ideal, it's got both the range and the right capacity but how cheap are they to lease compared to used 737s/A320s?


Agreed - and looking at what Alliance have done, buying their E90s for a steal, surely the lower capacity would be offset but lower ownership costs. It amazes me somewhat when start up airlines go out and buy brand new aircraft, I always feel start off second hand, get the business up and running and then when you have the $$s go and invest in a new fleet.

ZL - I still think ZL need to work on their brand, get their basics right lounges etc before looking to expand. I wonder for regional if the SAABs can last long enough for the next generation of Green-props like NZ have flagged investing in.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:06 am

Does anyone know the status of the 321LR delivered to Jetstar Japan? It appeared in a revised livery, was it ever delivered is it in Japan or AU?

https://aibfamily.flights/A320/10067
 
A350OZ
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:42 am

smi0006 wrote:
redroo wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
I think you may be right. Lots of people from NSW and Victoria are nervous that the Qld border may snap shut on them and either leave them without a holiday or forced into quarantine during their holiday. VA,JQ and QF are probably guessing demand based on prior years but they know it is fluid at best.

Some of the rules make no sense. You have to get a PCR 3 days before arrival which is fair enough but you need a second test on Day 3. If I'm holidaying on Hamilton or Hayman Islands, where exactly do I go to get this test for the whole family? Even if I'm in Cairns where there are testing stations nearby, I may not be thrilled losing up to a day of my holiday waiting for test result given I assume you have to isolate between the time you take the test and get the result.


My parents went through this when they did UK Spain months ago. In the end the vacation was stressful because they were running around trying to get tests done. Plus the cost of all the tests was equivalent to the flights.

I want to travel but until it’s a “vacation” I am staying put. Sorry Qantas and Virgin!


Same I was desperate to go overseas, and considering short Singapore trip - but when I looked (and it’s probably changed again) I would have needed a min of 6 tests for a five day trip, plus isolation back in SYD for 72hrs, simply was too expensive and wasn’t worth it.


Same here. Was looking at Singapore when the VTL opened up and flights were cheap, but adding all the testing requirements and $$s it’s just not worth the hassle. Not even thinking about the fallout in case one actually tests positive while overseas and then be stuck for 2 weeks. Was just looking at BKK yesterday which seems intriguing with their ‘Test & Go’ option, but no direct flights out of MEL anytime soon.

Looks like we’ll stay put for now, maybe interstate to Sydney or Tassie in the new year. Or Queensland again if one can trust the border remaining open…
 
DavidByrne
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:11 am

A350OZ wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
redroo wrote:

My parents went through this when they did UK Spain months ago. In the end the vacation was stressful because they were running around trying to get tests done. Plus the cost of all the tests was equivalent to the flights.

I want to travel but until it’s a “vacation” I am staying put. Sorry Qantas and Virgin!


Same I was desperate to go overseas, and considering short Singapore trip - but when I looked (and it’s probably changed again) I would have needed a min of 6 tests for a five day trip, plus isolation back in SYD for 72hrs, simply was too expensive and wasn’t worth it.


Same here. Was looking at Singapore when the VTL opened up and flights were cheap, but adding all the testing requirements and $$s it’s just not worth the hassle. Not even thinking about the fallout in case one actually tests positive while overseas and then be stuck for 2 weeks. Was just looking at BKK yesterday which seems intriguing with their ‘Test & Go’ option, but no direct flights out of MEL anytime soon.

Looks like we’ll stay put for now, maybe interstate to Sydney or Tassie in the new year. Or Queensland again if one can trust the border remaining open…

This is why I think the predictions that there will be a quick recovery in international travel by some airlines and many posters on Anet are off the mark. I suspect that the requirement to test will be around in many jurisdictions for years, rather than months. So much so that I think that we may well have reached “peak flying” in 2019.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:02 am

I'm off to SIN in early January for work. The number of tests required is bewildering. For a 4 day trip, I shall do 4 PCR tests and 3 RAT tests. If work wasn't paying, I wouldn't bother especially as movement in SIN remains limited with masks everywhere and no more than 2 people dining together. Fares are not especially cheap but hotels are less than you would normally expect to pay.

Before Covid, I went to SIN and CGK every 6 weeks and this will be my first visit there in nearly 2 years so I'm looking forward to catching up with colleagues in person rather than via Teams.

CGK still looks like opening up again at the end of March and I will be heading there pretty much on QF41's first flight over.
 
a19901213
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:21 am

No wonder why accomodations are super expensive and all booked out in places like Noosa, Byron Bay at the end of the year.
The trouble of going overseas is simply too much if you’re bringing entire family with you. (Even interstate travel can be a pain in the ass)
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:06 am

tullamarine wrote:
I'm off to SIN in early January for work. The number of tests required is bewildering.


It's Asia Pacific - what did you expect ? Governments love covid-theatre. Populations love being restricted / closed borders.
 
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LoganTheBogan
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:23 am

Bonza approached WGA Airport as a potential destination however it was declined pretty quickly. We don't have the runway, taxiway, apron or infrastructure facilities to support 737 ops. The only 737s that can arrive and depart WGA are the RAAF BBJ which parks on Bay 6 (stronger ground) and the occasional empty 737 that goes to Douglas Aerospace for repainting. But none can park on RPT bays 1-5.

The largest RPT aircraft WGA used to operate was an Alliance F100 and a Jetgo E145.

I've heard they approached other regional ports but got given similar answers.
 
log0008
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:26 am

LoganTheBogan wrote:
Bonza approached WGA Airport as a potential destination however it was declined pretty quickly. We don't have the runway, taxiway, apron or infrastructure facilities to support 737 ops. The only 737s that can arrive and depart WGA are the RAAF BBJ which parks on Bay 6 (stronger ground) and the occasional empty 737 that goes to Douglas Aerospace for repainting. But none can park on RPT bays 1-5.

The largest RPT aircraft WGA used to operate was an Alliance F100 and a Jetgo E145.

I've heard they approached other regional ports but got given similar answers.


Feel we will see them have a play at Mildura then we have the infrastructure from when VA flew them here pre covid.
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:42 am

LoganTheBogan wrote:
Bonza approached WGA Airport as a potential destination however it was declined pretty quickly. We don't have the runway, taxiway, apron or infrastructure facilities to support 737 ops. The only 737s that can arrive and depart WGA are the RAAF BBJ which parks on Bay 6 (stronger ground) and the occasional empty 737 that goes to Douglas Aerospace for repainting. But none can park on RPT bays 1-5.

The largest RPT aircraft WGA used to operate was an Alliance F100 and a Jetgo E145.

I've heard they approached other regional ports but got given similar answers.


This and the comments above re ownership cost suggest that yes, getting smaller, second hand fleet might be the better option....
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:12 am

Qantas A388 OQK positioned VCV-LAX yesterday

https://twitter.com/airlinevideos/statu ... 87465?s=21
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:24 am

qf789 wrote:
Qantas A388 OQK positioned VCV-LAX yesterday

https://twitter.com/airlinevideos/statu ... 87465?s=21


Is this #2 back for operations with QF?

I do love to see the A380 back. Although a lot of people hate the whale jet because of its operational cost, but it certainly is fantastic to fly as a passenger. I had the joy of being able to fly this from SIN-SYD early last year and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Cheers.
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:28 am

Firstly, apologies if this sounds like a dumb question. But QF announced, I think, within the last fortnight, that domestic capacity would be at 115% of pre-CoVid levels in January, I believe.

Can I safely understand this as, they’re using aircraft that were previously utilised by International services on domestic?

Thanks.

*Edit: bad spelling*
 
NZ516
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:13 pm

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
Firstly, apologies if this sounds like a dumb question. But QF announced, I think, within the last fortnight, that domestic capacity would be at 115% of pre-CoVid levels in January, I believe.

Can I safely understand this as, they’re using aircraft that were previously utilised by International services on domestic?

Thanks.

*Edit: bad spelling*


I would say that their 737s that use to fly the Tasman routes are being redeployed domestic flying. Plus they have started 50 new routes with some using wet lease 190s. Greater utilization of their existing fleet as well. So there is a lot more domestic activity than pre covid.
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 12, 2021 9:54 pm

Not much 'news' in here, more of a summary on the decision which Qantas its about to make on its domestic fleet renewal aka 'Project Winton'. Apparently the announcement on the new types will be made in the new few weeks.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 59fzp.html
 
Kent350787
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 12, 2021 9:55 pm

The Sydney Morning Herald ran a largely nothing new article this morning on the QF narrowbody fleet decision. This picture caught my eye.
IMG_2090.jpg
 
Kent350787
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:03 pm

Not sure whether the pic was showing above. It was captioned as QF737s stored at Avalon earlier in the year, yet every single plane in shot had A330 winglets.
 
LTEN11
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:46 pm

Kent350787 wrote:
Not sure whether the pic was showing above. It was captioned as QF737s stored at Avalon earlier in the year, yet every single plane in shot had A330 winglets.


Not quite, there are some JQ 787's in the back ground as well as the QF 330's. But no 737's.
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:51 pm

Interesting accident investigation review of QF1 SYD-BKK VH-OJH on the 23rd of September 1999.

At 9:18 into the video QF15 is mentioned operated on a B737… Clearly QF15 was operated on a B743…

https://youtu.be/gR24_39ymkU


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:57 pm

LTEN11 wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
Not sure whether the pic was showing above. It was captioned as QF737s stored at Avalon earlier in the year, yet every single plane in shot had A330 winglets.


Not quite, there are some JQ 787's in the back ground as well as the QF 330's. But no 737's.

A matter of fact QF had B737’s stored at AVV

Image

Image

Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Kent350787
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 12:09 am

Not doubting they did - but the pic the SMH used didn't show a single one of them.
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 12:19 am

Kent350787 wrote:
Not doubting they did - but the pic the SMH used didn't show a single one of them.

We are talking about the media here and we all know they use old files… Just like the link I shared there is a mention of QF15 B737?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
LTEN11
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:08 am

EK413 wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
Not doubting they did - but the pic the SMH used didn't show a single one of them.

We are talking about the media here and we all know they use old files… Just like the link I shared there is a mention of QF15 B737?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So ? We all know the media constantly make mistakes, we were just highlighting the fact that there were no 737's in the photo, nothing more, nothing less.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:49 am

LTEN11 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
Not doubting they did - but the pic the SMH used didn't show a single one of them.

We are talking about the media here and we all know they use old files… Just like the link I shared there is a mention of QF15 B737?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So ? We all know the media constantly make mistakes, we were just highlighting the fact that there were no 737's in the photo, nothing more, nothing less.


Agreed - no better or worse than usual. It was the certainty of the caption that the pic was of stored 737s when it wasn't that grabbed my attention.

Are there many A330 still stored at Avalon? There are 4-5 sitting at the SYD jetbase.
 
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EK413
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Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:54 am

Kent350787 wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
We are talking about the media here and we all know they use old files… Just like the link I shared there is a mention of QF15 B737?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So ? We all know the media constantly make mistakes, we were just highlighting the fact that there were no 737's in the photo, nothing more, nothing less.


Agreed - no better or worse than usual. It was the certainty of the caption that the pic was of stored 737s when it wasn't that grabbed my attention.

Are there many A330 still stored at Avalon? There are 4-5 sitting at the SYD jetbase.

I believe all A330’s have been repositioned to SYD,MEL & BNE as I believe AVV weren’t ideal conditions for storage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
qf2048
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:28 am

[list=][/list]
Kent350787 wrote:
Not sure whether the pic was showing above. It was captioned as QF737s stored at Avalon earlier in the year, yet every single plane in shot had A330 winglets.


Yep. I read that article too. Thought the same thing, those were A330's
 
myki
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:31 am

I think I missed the announcement of JQ starting up CBR-BNE. I can't think of any other routes they would jump on to. Perhaps a seasonal CBR-OOL/MCY/BNK route in place of, or in addition to, QF?
 
FL420FT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:12 am

qf789 wrote:
Qantas A388 OQK positioned VCV-LAX yesterday

https://twitter.com/airlinevideos/statu ... 87465?s=21



And in about a month she is heading to AUH
 
FL420FT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:14 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Not much 'news' in here, more of a summary on the decision which Qantas its about to make on its domestic fleet renewal aka 'Project Winton'. Apparently the announcement on the new types will be made in the new few weeks.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 59fzp.html



There is a QF board meeting on 16 December, we might be lucky and hear of a decision very soon after that date
 
Foopz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:12 am

After today's announcement from WA, 3K returns to 4x weekly PER-SIN / SIN-PER (3K 131 / 3K 132, Wed, Fri-Sun) flights for the first time since March 2018 effective Feb 16th.
It'll be interesting to see if there's much else in the way of international Perth services returning before the Northern Summer schedule prior to March 27th that aren't already operating now.
 
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EK413
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Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:13 pm

Western Sydney Airport progress update with runway taking shape.

https://youtu.be/KkoSlmn3hDU


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:31 pm

Exec Traveller reporting that VA has ditched its longstanding DL partnership and has entered a partnership with UA. File that under "Didn't see that coming"!!!
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:31 pm

Executive Traveller just reporting that Virgin is ending its partnership with Delta in favour of a new alliance with United Airlines, which will take effect in April 2022

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... artnership
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:38 pm

CraigAnderson wrote:
Executive Traveller just reporting that Virgin is ending its partnership with Delta in favour of a new alliance with United Airlines, which will take effect in April 2022

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... artnership

Is this an indication VA is considering joining Star* with partnerships with SQ/NH/UA & EY the odd one out?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
xiaotung
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:47 pm

EK413 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Executive Traveller just reporting that Virgin is ending its partnership with Delta in favour of a new alliance with United Airlines, which will take effect in April 2022

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... artnership

Is this an indication VA is considering joining Star* with partnerships with SQ/NH/UA & EY the odd one out?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Who would have thought NZ would become the obstable to VA's Star membership. It used to be the other way around. How things have changed!
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:52 pm

EK413 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Executive Traveller just reporting that Virgin is ending its partnership with Delta in favour of a new alliance with United Airlines, which will take effect in April 2022

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... artnership

Is this an indication VA is considering joining Star* with partnerships with SQ/NH/UA & EY the odd one out?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It would be possible but I doubt Bain would not consider paying full-dibs and would tell Star that "you need VA more than VA needs you so the answer is no unless we get a discount."

In theory, NZ has a power of veto if it wanted but I assume, if UA wanted VA, they have the power to tell NZ what to do.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:01 pm

tullamarine wrote:
EK413 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Executive Traveller just reporting that Virgin is ending its partnership with Delta in favour of a new alliance with United Airlines, which will take effect in April 2022

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... artnership

Is this an indication VA is considering joining Star* with partnerships with SQ/NH/UA & EY the odd one out?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It would be possible but I doubt Bain would not consider paying full-dibs and would tell Star that "you need VA more than VA needs you so the answer is no unless we get a discount."

In theory, NZ has a power of veto if it wanted but I assume, if UA wanted VA, they have the power to tell NZ what to do.


I think that the chance of VA joining Star is somewhere between zero and nada, but if they were to do so then NZ probably won’t stand in the way. They would effectively get access to a large pool of Australian frequent flyer members, without the cost and hassle of a JBA.

I certainly didn’t see UA coming, but I’m actually not surprised. Australia is a fairly peripheral market for DL, they’ve only ever flown one daily and never shown any interest in more than that. UA though is very committed to the market, and in summer 2019-20 (i.e. just before Covid) were already larger than DL/VA combined. They grew organically without an Australian partner, beyond the Qantas interline arrangement, so this would really help solidify them as the second force in the market. I expect UA were more motivated to do a deal than DL, and Bain’s VA is interested in cost alone. The fact that UA offer a broader network is a happy afterthought.
 
moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:03 pm

EK413 wrote:
Is this an indication VA is considering joining Star* with partnerships with SQ/NH/UA & EY the odd one out?


Still think they are better unaligned.
That way they are the default carrier for the bulk of Star, Skyteam and unaligned carriers.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:05 pm

CraigAnderson wrote:
Executive Traveller just reporting that Virgin is ending its partnership with Delta in favour of a new alliance with United Airlines, which will take effect in April 2022

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... artnership


Agree didn’t see that coming at all. But does make sense if VA aren’t returning to long haul anytime soon- UA does have a greater reach than DL into AU. I think at some point we may see UA in BNE now. Didn’t DJ codeshare with VA too? How things come in circles. Maybe we’ll see VA/NZ rekindle their alliance and have a broader three way model with UA also….
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:09 pm

smi0006 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Executive Traveller just reporting that Virgin is ending its partnership with Delta in favour of a new alliance with United Airlines, which will take effect in April 2022

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... artnership


Agree didn’t see that coming at all. But does make sense if VA aren’t returning to long haul anytime soon- UA does have a greater reach than DL into AU. I think at some point we may see UA in BNE now. Didn’t DJ codeshare with VA too? How things come in circles. Maybe we’ll see VA/NZ rekindle their alliance and have a broader three way model with UA also….

I think you mean UA codeshared with DJ. I don't think it was a codeshare but DJ was UA's prefered domestic partner at the time.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:13 pm

I would say Bain has 'power' in regards to Star Alliance joining fees, however if UA was willing to 'pay' VA's costs of joining, NZ can't do much about it.

UA and DJ had a codeshare partnership prior to V Australia. Godfrey ended it in favour of DL in 2009 with Borghetti renewing this In 2015.
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:23 pm

EK413 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Executive Traveller just reporting that Virgin is ending its partnership with Delta in favour of a new alliance with United Airlines, which will take effect in April 2022

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... artnership

Is this an indication VA is considering joining Star* with partnerships with SQ/NH/UA & EY the odd one out?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Doubt it, Bain would be dumb to pay the cost of signing up to an alliance.

If they've already got SQ, NH and UA as partners, I'm not sure paying the cost of the alliance membership and integration is worth it to pick up a bunch of small airlines on the other side of the world that won't be to VA's financial advantage.

Alliance membership peaked a while ago and apart from a couple of blips joining Oneworld, the others are stagnant.
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:27 pm

I reckon we can rule out Virgin Australia resuming long-haul now. It will stick to domestic and short-haul, and that makes plenty of sense.

Star Alliance? Both VA and NZ have new leadership with the squabbles of the past behind them, and maybe Virgin could join as one of the 'membership lite' partners. If Bain can see decent profit in the benefits of Star it will join, because the bottom line now rules all. Which is as it should be!
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:35 pm

How long till DL and ZL announce some sort of partnership.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:49 pm

CraigAnderson wrote:
I reckon we can rule out Virgin Australia resuming long-haul now. It will stick to domestic and short-haul, and that makes plenty of sense.

Star Alliance? Both VA and NZ have new leadership with the squabbles of the past behind them, and maybe Virgin could join as one of the 'membership lite' partners. If Bain can see decent profit in the benefits of Star it will join, because the bottom line now rules all. Which is as it should be!


There may be new leadership at both VA and NZ, however considering 'insider' reports elsewhere on other sites that the QF/NZ domestic codeshare partnership was making more revenue than the old VA/NZ JV, there would need to be a 'stronger' business case to dump the 'cheaper, but restricted' QF/NZ partnership in favour of a 'unrestricted but more expensive' 2nd attempt at a VA/NZ JV.

Another factor is that will a VA interline (mandated by an Alliance full or lite membership) add more to NZ's bottom line if they kept the QF/NZ domestic partnership in its place.

And as for full membership, I think Bain 'has the power' here in regards to CapEx, they can say 'You need us (VA) than they need them *A' - asking to lower their fees.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:54 pm

SCFlyer wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
I reckon we can rule out Virgin Australia resuming long-haul now. It will stick to domestic and short-haul, and that makes plenty of sense.

Star Alliance? Both VA and NZ have new leadership with the squabbles of the past behind them, and maybe Virgin could join as one of the 'membership lite' partners. If Bain can see decent profit in the benefits of Star it will join, because the bottom line now rules all. Which is as it should be!


There may be new leadership at both VA and NZ, however considering 'insider' reports elsewhere on other sites that the QF/NZ domestic codeshare partnership was making more revenue than the old VA/NZ JV, there would need to be a 'stronger' business case to dump the 'cheaper, but restricted' QF/NZ partnership in favour of a 'unrestricted but more expensive' 2nd attempt at a VA/NZ JV.

Another factor is that will a VA interline (mandated by an Alliance full or lite membership) add more to NZ's bottom line if they kept the QF/NZ domestic partnership in its place.


You’re adding 2+2 to get 5.

VA hypothetically joining Star does not automatically mean VA-NZ will enter back into a JBA. The most basic alliance partnership is just interline and FF recognition, no reason why NZ need any more than that.

Moreover, VA in Star doesn’t mean that NZ need to terminate the QF codeshare arrangement. There’s now dozens of non-alliance agreements. QF/EK, QF/MU, QF/AF, NZ/CX, LH/CX just to name the first five that came to mind. Having a codeshare with QF and interline with VA arguably gives NZ the best of both worlds.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:00 pm

smi0006 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Executive Traveller just reporting that Virgin is ending its partnership with Delta in favour of a new alliance with United Airlines, which will take effect in April 2022

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... artnership


Agree didn’t see that coming at all. But does make sense if VA aren’t returning to long haul anytime soon- UA does have a greater reach than DL into AU. I think at some point we may see UA in BNE now. Didn’t DJ codeshare with VA too? How things come in circles. Maybe we’ll see VA/NZ rekindle their alliance and have a broader three way model with UA also….


It makes a lot of sense for both UA and for Virgin Australia. United is the largest US carrier in terms of service to Australia, which when all routes are activated are SFO-SYD, SFO-MEL, LAX-SYD, LAX-MEL, IAH-SYD. UA gets good onward network access and Virgin gets a much larger player on US-Australia than Delta, with its sole LAX-SYD service.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:37 pm

There may be new leadership at both VA and NZ, however considering 'insider' reports elsewhere on other sites that the QF/NZ domestic codeshare partnership was making more revenue than the old VA/NZ JV, there would need to be a 'stronger' business case to dump the 'cheaper, but restricted' QF/NZ partnership in favour of a 'unrestricted but more expensive' 2nd attempt at a VA/NZ JV.

Given there has been virtually no trans-Tasman services for nearly 2 years, commentary on the profitability or otherwise of QF/NZ v VA/NZ is now pretty meaningless and based on very old statistics.

Even if QF/NZ is more profitable for NZ when it comes to domestic feed, it is arguable that it gives nothing to NZ in relation to international feed and NZ really relies on feed from Australian pax to make a lot of its international network viable. QF do not have any interest in selling NZ's international services and don't. VA, were it to join Star which I agree is 50/50 at best, would definitely have interest in selling code shared services given it is unlikely to be operating any long-haul international services of its own.

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