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NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:12 pm

zkncj wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Avtur wrote:

I saw it arrive. It taxied in, as I was waiting for an A320 to push back from stand 24. I remember thinking “hmmm that looks shiny and clean” then I noticed the rego, and realised that it was a new one. They parked it on layover stand 71. Don’t know where it is now. It wasn’t there today.


It stayed for about 4 hours in AKL then it came down later to CHC on the 15th.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/id/ ... 364-3-0-57


The 4 hours was probably for the aircraft to get an deep clean? assuming it was brought to New Zealand by off shore contracted crew? then flown to CHC by NZ Crew.


Most likely yes. Interestingly this particular ATR the last one for AIR NZ is the 1600th built by the manufacturer.

https://simpleflying.com/anz-atr-1600/
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:18 pm

NZ516 wrote:

Most likely yes. Interestingly this particular ATR the last one for AIR NZ is the 1600th built by the manufacturer.

https://simpleflying.com/anz-atr-1600/


In French is 1600 an celebrated number? seems am little odd to apply an 1600th sicker to the aircraft, would 1500 be more an celebration number?

Does anyone know why NZ has ATR 72-600 stickers on the tails of the ATR's? no other aircraft in the the NZ fleet no longer has there model number painted on (well expect for the Q300s that are still waiting for there repaint).

Is it pain of an the ATR deal to display there logo? it's almost like they have to, but don't want to so put it up the very top of the tail.
 
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Avtur
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:57 pm

NZ321 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
The new Invercargill A320 service starts on the 23rd Dec.
Times are the following
CHC-IVC 1315 1420 NZ1213
IVC-CHC 1500-1605 NZ1214


40 minutes turn around? !
I've never seen NZ manage that with a 320.


I have. I’ve actually done it in 30 minutes…..! Sometimes they arrive late into AKL, or are late being towed over, but still expect, and actually do depart on time.
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:13 pm

Is there a reason certain tail numbers seem to be one specific routes, EG ZK-NNA seems to have been on AKL-ZQN exclusively since the 13th.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:58 am

77west wrote:
Is there a reason certain tail numbers seem to be one specific routes, EG ZK-NNA seems to have been on AKL-ZQN exclusively since the 13th.


I think it’s more just that there are spare a321N’s currently in the fleet, and two them are assigned to just fly back and forwards between AKL-ZQN.

I went down on Thursday Night, and the flight was 100% full.

They seem to be an good size for ZQN, without needing to increase the flights to hourly.

Along with domestic flights currently using the international gates. ZQN can handle the loads of the 321N pretty well.
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:24 am

zkncj wrote:
77west wrote:
Is there a reason certain tail numbers seem to be one specific routes, EG ZK-NNA seems to have been on AKL-ZQN exclusively since the 13th.


I think it’s more just that there are spare a321N’s currently in the fleet, and two them are assigned to just fly back and forwards between AKL-ZQN.

I went down on Thursday Night, and the flight was 100% full.

They seem to be an good size for ZQN, without needing to increase the flights to hourly.

Along with domestic flights currently using the international gates. ZQN can handle the loads of the 321N pretty well.


Right, interesting. The other must be ZK-NNG, which incidentally seems to be returning to AKL right now after circling ZQN once - wonder what's going on.

EDIT: CHC arrival also cancelled so something is going on at ZQN.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 20, 2021 6:25 am

77west wrote:
zkncj wrote:
77west wrote:
Is there a reason certain tail numbers seem to be one specific routes, EG ZK-NNA seems to have been on AKL-ZQN exclusively since the 13th.


I think it’s more just that there are spare a321N’s currently in the fleet, and two them are assigned to just fly back and forwards between AKL-ZQN.

I went down on Thursday Night, and the flight was 100% full.

They seem to be an good size for ZQN, without needing to increase the flights to hourly.

Along with domestic flights currently using the international gates. ZQN can handle the loads of the 321N pretty well.


Right, interesting. The other must be ZK-NNG, which incidentally seems to be returning to AKL right now after circling ZQN once - wonder what's going on.

EDIT: CHC arrival also cancelled so something is going on at ZQN.


The MetService currently has an heavy wind and rain warning in place for Queenstown.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:33 pm

Paywalled article in the Herald about Air NZ's current aims to start operating carbon neutral aircraft by 2025. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/air ... QTEHNCVEU/

Looks like their current long term aim is hydrogen for long haul. With short haul being battery electric or SAF.
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:45 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Paywalled article in the Herald about Air NZ's current aims to start operating carbon neutral aircraft by 2025. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/air ... QTEHNCVEU/

Looks like their current long term aim is hydrogen for long haul. With short haul being battery electric or SAF.


No way this will happen in 3 years. Its greenwashing. What 50 to 70 seater electric short haul aircraft have even reached the prototype stage? Or even alternate fuel? I think the best they could hope for is maybe carbon neutral biofuel for existing planes. I could see electric 50 seaters maybe by 2030-2035.
 
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Avtur
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:19 am

77west wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Paywalled article in the Herald about Air NZ's current aims to start operating carbon neutral aircraft by 2025. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/air ... QTEHNCVEU/

Looks like their current long term aim is hydrogen for long haul. With short haul being battery electric or SAF.



No way this will happen in 3 years. Its greenwashing. What 50 to 70 seater electric short haul aircraft have even reached the prototype stage? Or even alternate fuel? I think the best they could hope for is maybe carbon neutral biofuel for existing planes. I could see electric 50 seaters maybe by 2030-2035.


I think I mentioned this on a previous thread. As it stands currently, all fuel into the JUHI is certified at Marsden, then again at Wiri, and finally in the JUHI itself before being released into the hydrant pipeline, or to the gantry, for loading onto tankers. There is no blending facilities at the JUHI, so SAF, or whatever people want to call it (biofuels??) would need to be manufactured and certified off site, as they currently are now. I think it will be a while before any decision is made and “significant” costs agreed to, that will see storage tanks rated to store hydrogen constructed. Even then the hydrant system would probably need to be reconstructed and rated for hydrogen, so I totally agree with you, that you are unlikely to see this before the end of the next decade.
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:30 am

Avtur wrote:
77west wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Paywalled article in the Herald about Air NZ's current aims to start operating carbon neutral aircraft by 2025. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/air ... QTEHNCVEU/

Looks like their current long term aim is hydrogen for long haul. With short haul being battery electric or SAF.



No way this will happen in 3 years. Its greenwashing. What 50 to 70 seater electric short haul aircraft have even reached the prototype stage? Or even alternate fuel? I think the best they could hope for is maybe carbon neutral biofuel for existing planes. I could see electric 50 seaters maybe by 2030-2035.


I think I mentioned this on a previous thread. As it stands currently, all fuel into the JUHI is certified at Marsden, then again at Wiri, and finally in the JUHI itself before being released into the hydrant pipeline, or to the gantry, for loading onto tankers. There is no blending facilities at the JUHI, so SAF, or whatever people want to call it (biofuels??) would need to be manufactured and certified off site, as they currently are now. I think it will be a while before any decision is made and “significant” costs agreed to, that will see storage tanks rated to store hydrogen constructed. Even then the hydrant system would probably need to be reconstructed and rated for hydrogen, so I totally agree with you, that you are unlikely to see this before the end of the next decade.


It is the same infrastructure problem facing mass EV adoption, with the added complexities of aviation regulation, and the tech barriers around weight (batteries) and safe storage (hydrogen)

My view has always been that aviation will be the last major transportation system to be able to switch away from fossil fuels. Apart from space launcher vehicles although I suppose LH2\LOx could be made in a carbon-neutral way. We were still installing CRT screens in new planes up until a few years ago - so a major change to the fuel infrastructure is a long way off.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:19 am

77west wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Paywalled article in the Herald about Air NZ's current aims to start operating carbon neutral aircraft by 2025. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/air ... QTEHNCVEU/

Looks like their current long term aim is hydrogen for long haul. With short haul being battery electric or SAF.


No way this will happen in 3 years. Its greenwashing. What 50 to 70 seater electric short haul aircraft have even reached the prototype stage? Or even alternate fuel? I think the best they could hope for is maybe carbon neutral biofuel for existing planes. I could see electric 50 seaters maybe by 2030-2035.

But don't rule out the possibility that there may be hydrogen conversion kits available for the Q300 and ATRs within the next few years. The plan appears to be to have swap-in swap-out cylinders so no need to have filling facilities on site. And as far as electric aircraft are concerned, there's no practical aircraft likely in that time frame except perhaps in the 19-seat category (eg Heart ES-19, ordered by UA [100 examples!] and S8, among others).

It's this latter category I find most interesting, especially in UA service. It implies a return to smaller city pairs or perhaps higher frequencies, assuming they will use them in place of smaller regional jets. Could this be of interest to NZ? The trouble is they have gotten rid of routes that might be suitable, and the range is at this stage expected to be only around 200 miles. But could they codeshare with S8 on routes like WLG-TUO, WLG-WSZ or CHC-BHE? Perhaps. Or they could do a deal with S8 and contract those routes to them, operating in NZ colours. Electric aircraft offers the opportunity for NZ to right the "wrongs" that many believe they committed by withdrawing from smaller centres and genuinely become the airline of the nation. Time will tell - interesting times ahead.

And I completely disagree that this is greenwash on NZ'S part - change is closer than most people think.
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:51 am

DavidByrne wrote:
77west wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Paywalled article in the Herald about Air NZ's current aims to start operating carbon neutral aircraft by 2025. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/air ... QTEHNCVEU/

Looks like their current long term aim is hydrogen for long haul. With short haul being battery electric or SAF.


No way this will happen in 3 years. Its greenwashing. What 50 to 70 seater electric short haul aircraft have even reached the prototype stage? Or even alternate fuel? I think the best they could hope for is maybe carbon neutral biofuel for existing planes. I could see electric 50 seaters maybe by 2030-2035.

But don't rule out the possibility that there may be hydrogen conversion kits available for the Q300 and ATRs within the next few years. The plan appears to be to have swap-in swap-out cylinders so no need to have filling facilities on site. And as far as electric aircraft are concerned, there's no practical aircraft likely in that time frame except perhaps in the 19-seat category (eg Heart ES-19, ordered by UA [100 examples!] and S8, among others).

It's this latter category I find most interesting, especially in UA service. It implies a return to smaller city pairs or perhaps higher frequencies, assuming they will use them in place of smaller regional jets. Could this be of interest to NZ? The trouble is they have gotten rid of routes that might be suitable, and the range is at this stage expected to be only around 200 miles. But could they codeshare with S8 on routes like WLG-TUO, WLG-WSZ or CHC-BHE? Perhaps. Or they could do a deal with S8 and contract those routes to them, operating in NZ colours. Electric aircraft offers the opportunity for NZ to right the "wrongs" that many believe they committed by withdrawing from smaller centres and genuinely become the airline of the nation. Time will tell - interesting times ahead.

And I completely disagree that this is greenwash on NZ'S part - change is closer than most people think.


An interesting idea - swappable cylinders - but where will they go? Hydrogen is a great fuel but does not have the best energy density per unit (see the Space Shuttle external tank)
These cylinders will be big and not the best shape for an ATR wing, so that implies storage in the fuselage. So there goes your cargo compartments. And if they do figure it out, it will be a whole new certification process, training, etc, not quite the same as converting your Holden Commodore to LPG unfortunately. (I say that jokingly, not intending to be rude)

In terms of no on-site refueling - there still needs to be a source of approved H2 locally or stored on site, so still major infrastructure implications even if they bring in pre-filled tanks. For small regional airports that's a big cost. (Storage locally).

On the subject of 19-seaters - you wont find anyone who would welcome their return more than me, and I agree we are likely to see this size category go to electric or some other alternative propulsion first, simply due to the short segments they fly. The mass reduction due to fuel burn on a 1-2hr flight is insignificant in comparison to a transpacific crossing or even a Tasman crossing.

Perhaps Greenwashing is too strong a term; but whatever you call it; NZ is being overly optimistic on their timeline. I would eat my hat, Peter Beck style, if there was a TRUE carbon neutral aircraft of 19 seats or more, operating in NZ, on regular commercial flights by 2030.

Edit: Interesting video that echoes what I am saying, from Foran himself: https://youtu.be/60QYTDyH_CQ?t=1255
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:37 am

NZ321 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
The new Invercargill A320 service starts on the 23rd Dec.
Times are the following
CHC-IVC 1315 1420 NZ1213
IVC-CHC 1500-1605 NZ1214


40 minutes turn around? !
I've never seen NZ manage that with a 320.

Seen 20 minutes with full loads.
Reality is though it all depends on what’s happening and passengers/destination.
If no catering required and not much fuel and if the passengers are travelling light (not mucking around with lots of bags/jackets etc) then it’s absolutely possible especially with dual boarding/disembarking.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:05 am

77west wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Paywalled article in the Herald about Air NZ's current aims to start operating carbon neutral aircraft by 2025. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/air ... QTEHNCVEU/

Looks like their current long term aim is hydrogen for long haul. With short haul being battery electric or SAF.


No way this will happen in 3 years. Its greenwashing. What 50 to 70 seater electric short haul aircraft have even reached the prototype stage? Or even alternate fuel? I think the best they could hope for is maybe carbon neutral biofuel for existing planes. I could see electric 50 seaters maybe by 2030-2035.


And from where and how will the hydrogen be produced? That's the question we all need to be asking.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:00 pm

27,000 people have been effected by 120 Tasman flights being cancelled by NZ due to the Tasman boarder reopening delay. Would assume that that Qantas group probably has similar numbers booked to that have no had there plans changed.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-omicron-at-least-27000-flyers-in-limbo-after-omicron-border-delay/R4FYBO6GB2XKPLD5HLX37KLOS4/

Ironically SYD,BNE,MEL all have onsite PCR testing that returns an result within 90minutes (oh and only sets you back around $80).

You think they could of keep the Jan 17th date, but implemented that you must get the PCR test at the airport before departure. Along with Tasman flights being restricted to Tasman only passengers.
 
mrkerr7474
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:03 pm

zkncj wrote:
27,000 people have been effected by 120 Tasman flights being cancelled by NZ due to the Tasman boarder reopening delay. Would assume that that Qantas group probably has similar numbers booked to that have no had there plans changed.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-omicron-at-least-27000-flyers-in-limbo-after-omicron-border-delay/R4FYBO6GB2XKPLD5HLX37KLOS4/

Ironically SYD,BNE,MEL all have onsite PCR testing that returns an result within 90minutes (oh and only sets you back around $80).

You think they could of keep the Jan 17th date, but implemented that you must get the PCR test at the airport before departure. Along with Tasman flights being restricted to Tasman only passengers.


Seems to be a never-ending cycle at the moment and makes you wonder why as a nation we were busting a gut to get to 90% vaccination rates only for another delay to occur, wouldn't be surprised to see more delays either unfortunately.

I really feel for all those affected who were looking forward to reconnecting with loved ones which will now be put on hold once more. And for those in the airline industry as well who were looking forward to getting back in the air and their revenues taking a hit once again. That's a lot of flights cancelled in that space of time that's for sure and that's without knowing how many QF and JQ flights are cancelled during that timeframe to

Makes you wonder with the available PCR testing as you mentioned above as to why they aren't making using of that and/or implementing that process on arrival in NZ as well
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:34 am

More problems facing the Air NZ 787 fleet - paint peeling.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industri ... app-iPhone
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:27 am

NZ516 wrote:
More problems facing the Air NZ 787 fleet - paint peeling.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industri ... app-iPhone


Clearly this is evidence they should have gone with the A350.


:P
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Thu Dec 23, 2021 6:59 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
More problems facing the Air NZ 787 fleet - paint peeling.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industri ... app-iPhone


Clearly this is evidence they should have gone with the A350.


:P


Lol absolutely, better talk to QR about that.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:01 am

NZ321 wrote:
77west wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Paywalled article in the Herald about Air NZ's current aims to start operating carbon neutral aircraft by 2025. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/air ... QTEHNCVEU/

Looks like their current long term aim is hydrogen for long haul. With short haul being battery electric or SAF.


No way this will happen in 3 years. Its greenwashing. What 50 to 70 seater electric short haul aircraft have even reached the prototype stage? Or even alternate fuel? I think the best they could hope for is maybe carbon neutral biofuel for existing planes. I could see electric 50 seaters maybe by 2030-2035.


And from where and how will the hydrogen be produced? That's the question we all need to be asking.


We already produce hydrogen in NZ

https://www.nzhydrogen.org/nz-hydrogen-projects
 
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qf789
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:33 pm

Please keep the discussion related to aviation, any discussion not related to aviation needs to be taken to the non-aviation forum
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:18 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
77west wrote:

No way this will happen in 3 years. Its greenwashing. What 50 to 70 seater electric short haul aircraft have even reached the prototype stage? Or even alternate fuel? I think the best they could hope for is maybe carbon neutral biofuel for existing planes. I could see electric 50 seaters maybe by 2030-2035.


And from where and how will the hydrogen be produced? That's the question we all need to be asking.


We already produce hydrogen in NZ

https://www.nzhydrogen.org/nz-hydrogen-projects


I would assume that you would want to end up with Hydrogen plants near the major airports in New Zealand, so supply could be pipped to the airport?

AKL could see some of Wiri transformed into an Hyrdrogen plant.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:21 am

NZ321 wrote:
77west wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Paywalled article in the Herald about Air NZ's current aims to start operating carbon neutral aircraft by 2025. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/air ... QTEHNCVEU/

Looks like their current long term aim is hydrogen for long haul. With short haul being battery electric or SAF.


No way this will happen in 3 years. Its greenwashing. What 50 to 70 seater electric short haul aircraft have even reached the prototype stage? Or even alternate fuel? I think the best they could hope for is maybe carbon neutral biofuel for existing planes. I could see electric 50 seaters maybe by 2030-2035.


And from where and how will the hydrogen be produced? That's the question we all need to be asking.

Things are happening faster than many realise re hydrogen powered aircraft, which it is expected will be the basis for sustainable flight on larger aircraft. NZ has a significant fleet of Q300s and ATR-72s, and there is a conversion programme well under way which aims to bring a retrofittable hydrogen kit for both the Q300 and the ATR to market by 2025. See the following link: https://newatlas.com/aircraft/universal ... gen-plane/. An Irish freight operator recently committed to 10 kits for conversion of their ATR-72 fleet.

The Q300 would be limited to 40 pax, but expects to offer seat-mile costs equivalent to a standard Q300 because of the assumed lower cost of fuel (though the actual cost of bulk fuel production by sustainable means is yet to be demonstrated). The range, at 400 miles plus reserves, makes it a much more serious contender than fully electric aircraft - for the moment, at least. If battery energy density can be improved, then electric is clearly the better way to go, though, as the conversion efficiency in using electricity to produce hydrogen to convert back into electricity to drive an aircraft engine is (I believe) about 3-4x worse than just using a battery alone. If NZ is serious about sustainability, hydrogen would be a very realistic way of doing so sooner, rather than later.

New Zealand is blessed by having almost all of its electricity produced sustainably, from hydro (mostly), but increasingly also wind and solar. Air New Zealand therefore has the opportunity to be one of the first airlines in the world to operate a significant fleet of "turboprops" sustainably on "green hydrogen".
 
smartplane
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:16 am

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
And from where and how will the hydrogen be produced? That's the question we all need to be asking.


New Zealand is blessed by having almost all of its electricity produced sustainably, from hydro (mostly), but increasingly also wind and solar. Air New Zealand therefore has the opportunity to be one of the first airlines in the world to operate a significant fleet of "turboprops" sustainably on "green hydrogen".

NZ will run out of sustainable electricity. If all light vehicles are electric, and each driver covered the same annual km's, only enough capacity to re-charge vehicles every 3rd day. That's using all current sustainable and non-sustainable capacity. And before heavy vehicles, ships, aircraft and hydrogen production. NZ needs NZAS to close, and to add sustainable generating capacity equivalent to another two smelters by 2035. A lot of habits need to change in a little over a decade to make the numbers work.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:42 am

smartplane wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
And from where and how will the hydrogen be produced? That's the question we all need to be asking.


New Zealand is blessed by having almost all of its electricity produced sustainably, from hydro (mostly), but increasingly also wind and solar. Air New Zealand therefore has the opportunity to be one of the first airlines in the world to operate a significant fleet of "turboprops" sustainably on "green hydrogen".

NZ will run out of sustainable electricity. If all light vehicles are electric, and each driver covered the same annual km's, only enough capacity to re-charge vehicles every 3rd day. That's using all current sustainable and non-sustainable capacity. And before heavy vehicles, ships, aircraft and hydrogen production. NZ needs NZAS to close, and to add sustainable generating capacity equivalent to another two smelters by 2035. A lot of habits need to change in a little over a decade to make the numbers work.

Yes, it's not to say that there aren't problems ahead with regard to a transition to sustainable fuels. At least it's pretty much assured that NZAS will close in the next few years - but there's a need also to ensure that the electricity can be got from there to somewhere that's more useful. And the lower efficiency is one of the reasons I'm sceptical about widespread use of hydrogen as a fuel for smaller vehicles - even for buses. But for the foreseeable future, hydrogen appears to be the fuel that will "save" aviation, and we should welcome and encourage it.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:07 pm

smartplane wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
And from where and how will the hydrogen be produced? That's the question we all need to be asking.


New Zealand is blessed by having almost all of its electricity produced sustainably, from hydro (mostly), but increasingly also wind and solar. Air New Zealand therefore has the opportunity to be one of the first airlines in the world to operate a significant fleet of "turboprops" sustainably on "green hydrogen".

NZ will run out of sustainable electricity. If all light vehicles are electric, and each driver covered the same annual km's, only enough capacity to re-charge vehicles every 3rd day. That's using all current sustainable and non-sustainable capacity. And before heavy vehicles, ships, aircraft and hydrogen production. NZ needs NZAS to close, and to add sustainable generating capacity equivalent to another two smelters by 2035. A lot of habits need to change in a little over a decade to make the numbers work.

Incorrect. NZ has barely scratched the surface of its renewable capacity. Wind alone could provide all of our current average demand (with backup). Solar could provide triple that. We still have more hydro options (especially pumped hydro), and tidal has big potential.
What would change the picture is if we got into mass industrial green hydrogen production (useful for trucks and in this context aviation). Even this is still possible with 100% renewables especially if Onslow gets the go ahead (even more so if the larger option is chosen - more than doubled our hydro storage capacity).
Long haul flying is still going to pose a challenge but short haul should be fine for battery or hydrogen.
Long haul would require new solutions - much bigger wings for battery or hydrogen, or new options - hypersonic high altitude aircraft for example.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sat Dec 25, 2021 2:31 am

Merry Christmas to everyone

Barrier Air is planning two new routes out of Tauranga and a 5th aircraft is to come next year.

http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2021/12/ ... n.html?m=1
 
smartplane
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:40 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
smartplane wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:

New Zealand is blessed by having almost all of its electricity produced sustainably, from hydro (mostly), but increasingly also wind and solar. Air New Zealand therefore has the opportunity to be one of the first airlines in the world to operate a significant fleet of "turboprops" sustainably on "green hydrogen".

NZ will run out of sustainable electricity. If all light vehicles are electric, and each driver covered the same annual km's, only enough capacity to re-charge vehicles every 3rd day. That's using all current sustainable and non-sustainable capacity. And before heavy vehicles, ships, aircraft and hydrogen production. NZ needs NZAS to close, and to add sustainable generating capacity equivalent to another two smelters by 2035. A lot of habits need to change in a little over a decade to make the numbers work.

Incorrect. NZ has barely scratched the surface of its renewable capacity. Wind alone could provide all of our current average demand (with backup). Solar could provide triple that. We still have more hydro options (especially pumped hydro), and tidal has big potential.
What would change the picture is if we got into mass industrial green hydrogen production (useful for trucks and in this context aviation). Even this is still possible with 100% renewables especially if Onslow gets the go ahead (even more so if the larger option is chosen - more than doubled our hydro storage capacity).

Capacity = generating capacity. Yes, lots of potential if NZ invests billions to tap it, and can pause electricity demand increases for a decade or more while the generating infrastructure is built.

Today, peaks are all covered by coal, oil and gas, and Onslow won't be on stream for a decade or more.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:54 pm

smartplane wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
smartplane wrote:
NZ will run out of sustainable electricity. If all light vehicles are electric, and each driver covered the same annual km's, only enough capacity to re-charge vehicles every 3rd day. That's using all current sustainable and non-sustainable capacity. And before heavy vehicles, ships, aircraft and hydrogen production. NZ needs NZAS to close, and to add sustainable generating capacity equivalent to another two smelters by 2035. A lot of habits need to change in a little over a decade to make the numbers work.

Incorrect. NZ has barely scratched the surface of its renewable capacity. Wind alone could provide all of our current average demand (with backup). Solar could provide triple that. We still have more hydro options (especially pumped hydro), and tidal has big potential.
What would change the picture is if we got into mass industrial green hydrogen production (useful for trucks and in this context aviation). Even this is still possible with 100% renewables especially if Onslow gets the go ahead (even more so if the larger option is chosen - more than doubled our hydro storage capacity).

Capacity = generating capacity. Yes, lots of potential if NZ invests billions to tap it, and can pause electricity demand increases for a decade or more while the generating infrastructure is built.

Today, peaks are all covered by coal, oil and gas, and Onslow won't be on stream for a decade or more.

No shortage of generating capacity potential. It is mostly hydro storage capacity that is the issue.
Wind, solar and geothermal can easily cover the daytime loads if built out, it’s the winter peak loads or when it’s still and cloudy at the same time that we will run into issues unless we build Onslow (highly likely) and add industrial battery storage.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:18 am

NZ516 wrote:
Merry Christmas to everyone

Barrier Air is planning two new routes out of Tauranga and a 5th aircraft is to come next year.

http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2021/12/ ... n.html?m=1


I wonder what new routes, they will go after ex TRG? Surely not TRG-AKL?

NZ seems todo pretty well on that route, with being able to fill ATR’s at peak times of the day. But don’t know if there would be any room for someone else on that route with an 12 seater?

3C might be able to make AKL-TRG work with an Saab, an couple times an day.
 
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Kiwings
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:45 am

To Great Barrier and Whitianga as per the last paragraph in the 3rd level blog.
 
NZ516
Posts: 1003
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:31 pm

Kiwings wrote:
To Great Barrier and Whitianga as per the last paragraph in the 3rd level blog.


Correct and they will go head to head with Sun Air on both routes from TRG which they are already flying on see:

https://www.sunair.co.nz/flights/flight-schedule

I'm surprised that they can think it will be big enough market for two players. Instead of opening up say Hamilton to Great Barrier which is an unserved route currently.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2135
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:40 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Kiwings wrote:
To Great Barrier and Whitianga as per the last paragraph in the 3rd level blog.


Correct and they will go head to head with Sun Air on both routes from TRG which they are already flying on see:

https://www.sunair.co.nz/flights/flight-schedule

I'm surprised that they can think it will be big enough market for two players. Instead of opening up say Hamilton to Great Barrier which is an unserved route currently.


Who uses this service?

Sun Air use 172's and PA23's I believe... very small, up to 4 seaters in fact (I could be wrong). I wouldn't fall off my chair is the were contracted to take items up the peninsula either. There's a big jump from this to a 13 seat on a Grand Caravan.

Is Barrier Air flying GBZ-TRG but for some reasons finding benefit in dropping into WTZ? Is it two separate flights or a double leg flight?

Is it seasonal of year round?

Perhaps we need understand these points before commenting too much .

Where has HLZ come from? Is there logic to it or is it just a guess based on it being the next biggest center? Hamilton is a landlocked city with no seaport, it's primary industries are based around agriculture so I struggle to see where passengers would come from other than a few looking for a 'getaway'

Looking at the Sun Air website, there's a link between GBZ and HLZ on their map. I don't follow these minos enough but have they done it before?
 
NZ6
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Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:54 pm

zkncj wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Merry Christmas to everyone

Barrier Air is planning two new routes out of Tauranga and a 5th aircraft is to come next year.

http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2021/12/ ... n.html?m=1


I wonder what new routes, they will go after ex TRG? Surely not TRG-AKL?

NZ seems todo pretty well on that route, with being able to fill ATR’s at peak times of the day. But don’t know if there would be any room for someone else on that route with an 12 seater?

3C might be able to make AKL-TRG work with an Saab, an couple times an day.


Why would anyone want to 'take on' NZ? Even JQ struggled.

Surely 3C, Sun Air, Barrier Air etc are all better off serving niche markets. If there's a reliance of leisure or even premium leisure Ragan is a growing area with an airfield but would only suit SunAir sized aircraft I believe and I can't see much demand coming from TRG for that.

I see more room for growth in the Central North than around the Auckland region to be honest. Joining cities pairs such as NPE/GIS/NPL/PMR/ROT/WAG/TRG with an aircraft with around a dozen seats once a day for example.
 
777ER
Head Moderator
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:23 am

If you wish to discuss covid, then cool go ahead BUT make sure it discusses aviation for the majority of the posts. The first deleted posts recently did NOT contain any aviation - in fact it ONLY discussed politics with a clear political view. So tell me, how is THAT discussing aviation? That post in turn leads to other posts being deleted as 'reference posts'.

Yes covid is impacting aviation but make sure your posts are majority discussing aviation or else the post will be removed as per the rules that you've agreed to follow. If you also wish to complain about Moderation then make sure your discussing facts and make sure there is evidence that an aviation discussion was stopped.

If anyone has any issues with this post, then feel free to email [email protected] and a Moderator or NZ1 or myself will reply as soon as possible. I'm currently in Auckland myself on a redeployment till mid January working in MIQ and working 10-12 hour shifts 5-6 days per week to help keep covid out of the community.
 
NZ516
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Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:45 pm

NZ6 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Kiwings wrote:
To Great Barrier and Whitianga as per the last paragraph in the 3rd level blog.


Correct and they will go head to head with Sun Air on both routes from TRG which they are already flying on see:

https://www.sunair.co.nz/flights/flight-schedule

I'm surprised that they can think it will be big enough market for two players. Instead of opening up say Hamilton to Great Barrier which is an unserved route currently.


Who uses this service?

Sun Air use 172's and PA23's I believe... very small, up to 4 seaters in fact (I could be wrong). I wouldn't fall off my chair is the were contracted to take items up the peninsula either. There's a big jump from this to a 13 seat on a Grand Caravan.

Is Barrier Air flying GBZ-TRG but for some reasons finding benefit in dropping into WTZ? Is it two separate flights or a double leg flight?

Is it seasonal of year round?

Perhaps we need understand these points before commenting too much .

Where has HLZ come from? Is there logic to it or is it just a guess based on it being the next biggest center? Hamilton is a landlocked city with no seaport, it's primary industries are based around agriculture so I struggle to see where passengers would come from other than a few looking for a 'getaway'

Looking at the Sun Air website, there's a link between GBZ and HLZ on their map. I don't follow these minos enough but have they done it before?


Yes there is lots of unknowns at the moment. Barrier Air may have got a freight contract TRG to GBZ as well so can make it viable with a few passengers on the way on top. I'm not sure if Sun Air has done HLZ GBZ before could well be the case and they forgot to remove the link off their map. Current schedules just have two routes HLZ to GIS and to WRE.
 
NZ516
Posts: 1003
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:59 pm

A bit more aviation related news.

http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2021/12/ ... e.html?m=1

Good news to have an extra Q300 available for domestic flying and make some money for Air NZ. I wonder is this the last one to return to service?

Also another route is back for the summer. Air Kaikoura is once again offering flights to Wellington.

http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2021/12/ ... z.html?m=1
 
NZ6
Posts: 2135
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:27 pm

NZ516 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

Correct and they will go head to head with Sun Air on both routes from TRG which they are already flying on see:

https://www.sunair.co.nz/flights/flight-schedule

I'm surprised that they can think it will be big enough market for two players. Instead of opening up say Hamilton to Great Barrier which is an unserved route currently.


Who uses this service?

Sun Air use 172's and PA23's I believe... very small, up to 4 seaters in fact (I could be wrong). I wouldn't fall off my chair is the were contracted to take items up the peninsula either. There's a big jump from this to a 13 seat on a Grand Caravan.

Is Barrier Air flying GBZ-TRG but for some reasons finding benefit in dropping into WTZ? Is it two separate flights or a double leg flight?

Is it seasonal of year round?

Perhaps we need understand these points before commenting too much .

Where has HLZ come from? Is there logic to it or is it just a guess based on it being the next biggest center? Hamilton is a landlocked city with no seaport, it's primary industries are based around agriculture so I struggle to see where passengers would come from other than a few looking for a 'getaway'

Looking at the Sun Air website, there's a link between GBZ and HLZ on their map. I don't follow these minos enough but have they done it before?


Yes there is lots of unknowns at the moment. Barrier Air may have got a freight contract TRG to GBZ as well so can make it viable with a few passengers on the way on top. I'm not sure if Sun Air has done HLZ GBZ before could well be the case and they forgot to remove the link off their map. Current schedules just have two routes HLZ to GIS and to WRE.


I put a bit of thought into this yesterday. TRG-GBZ would make some sense, moving goods coming into the port of TRG up to the Island. Perhaps also allowing for growing numbers to connect to the island without having to grow at AKL which is an expensive airport for a small airliner to operate out of.

I also considered moving seafood down to TRG for processing. Although without any international air links you can only assume any seafood is frozen and sent by sea making it a costly way to get it to processing so likely rules this out.

I'm more intrigued by WTZ. There's 3 primary industries on the Coromandel. Although I'm happy to be proven wrong. (Tourism, Forestry and Fishing). I can't see a need for an link between GBZ and WTZ for these.

Is it a quick "connection to the mainland"? I'd have thought Dairy Flat would've ticked that box more than WTZ, 12nm further but more 'mainland options' and still cheaper than AKL for the airline. It's also not like there's no ferry. It runs daily and you can take your car cheaper than the cost of a return flight.

Being give or take 2 and 1/2 hours from both AKL and TRG by road, it hardly fits into that too isolated space in the sense of needing fresh supplies via air.. delivery trucks would likely include all towns up the peninsular and run daily.

It all brings me back to tourism.. while I don't doubt people would use it. It's going to be a big job to full 13 return seats even once a week let alone 3-4 times.

Good luck to them.
 
NZ516
Posts: 1003
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:27 pm

Barrier Air might have done a special deal with the Whitianga Airport company eg no landing fees for a year. They currently are advertising flights to and from AKL for just $49 that is so amazing low and will be way below costs and is also below all their other fares on the network. So they might be trying to stimulate demand to this new destination and may do the same for the new planned TRG WTZ service.

https://www.barrierair.kiwi/routes/

Also what is interesting is the North Shore to Great Barrier route is the most expensive. One would think the costs of using that airport would be lower than using the AKL airport, well obviously not!.
 
NZ6
Posts: 2135
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:12 am

NZ516 wrote:
Barrier Air might have done a special deal with the Whitianga Airport company eg no landing fees for a year. They currently are advertising flights to and from AKL for just $49 that is so amazing low and will be way below costs and is also below all their other fares on the network. So they might be trying to stimulate demand to this new destination and may do the same for the new planned TRG WTZ service.

https://www.barrierair.kiwi/routes/

To be honest, while anything is possible in this space I'd high doubt that's the case. It sometimes seems like the 'go to' idea around new routes.

A quick Google says the airport is owned and operated by the Mercury Bay Aeroclub and it has a grass runway, no tower and very little facilities (what you'd expect). First question I have is why would an Aero Club want to give up "free landing fees for a year". The landing fees for multi engine fixed wing transport aircraft is $35 looking at their website. So while I struggle to see why the Aeroclub would want to invite an airline, I also can't see how those savings would make a difference in deciding to launch a route.

Perhaps the council wanted an airlink for tourism and is subsidizing in one of many possible ways but we would've heard something about this prior to today.
https://mbac.co.nz/airfield/

Personally, I can only assume Barrier Air can see merit in flying passengers TRG-WTZ-GBZ for what I can only assume is medium to high end or targeted leisure travel. It's a big aircraft but I also don't know the economics of running it.

NZ516 wrote:
Also what is interesting is the North Shore to Great Barrier route is the most expensive. One would think the costs of using that airport would be lower than using the AKL airport, well obviously not!.

North Shore Airport is also privately owned and the fees aren't eye watering

North Shore airport is a private airport. However, we welcome commercial operators. Due to the private nature of the airport, all flights require prior approval to operate. Landing fees are $25 if paid on the day and $50 if invoiced.


Not sure if there's other things which make NZNE more expensive, such as access to fuel, building access, fuel burn due to short banana runway but it seems very odd that it's $30 more than AKL.

It could be that extra incentive is needed to get arriving passengers off the ferry and onto Barrier Air at AKL but it could be live seafood is shipped into AKL making it more affordable to run. I don't have any answers to that one.

http://www.northshoreairport.co.nz/arri ... -aircraft/
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 2008
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:32 am

Something that I missed over the Christmas break:

https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/ ... t-by-2025/

The link suggests that NZ is looking to sign a letter of intent for a "sustainable" aircraft in Q2 2022, with a view to taking delivery in 2025.

It's clear that the various Airbus initiatives are way in the future (2035-ish) so that's out of the picture. There are hydrogen conversion kits being readied for a 40-seat version of the Q300 and also for the ATR72 by United Hydrogen, so those are possibilities. I'm aware that a number of other hydrogen conversion initiatives are also in play. But it's also possible (they say) that they could go full electric - which at this stage means a 19-seater like the Heart ES-19, as ordered by UA (100 examples) and Sounds Air, among others.

If they do go the 19-seat full electric option, then this brings up a whole raft of possible new routes. In an earlier post I suggested that NZ could do a deal with S8 to operate for them on an ACMI basis, but this suggests they may prefer to operate their own aircraft.

There's been scepticism from some posters that the timeline is realistic when I've raised "sustainable aviation" before. However, I think this report illustrates that things are moving very fast. Exciting times!
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3217
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Wed Dec 29, 2021 3:32 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Something that I missed over the Christmas break:

https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/ ... t-by-2025/

The link suggests that NZ is looking to sign a letter of intent for a "sustainable" aircraft in Q2 2022, with a view to taking delivery in 2025.

It's clear that the various Airbus initiatives are way in the future (2035-ish) so that's out of the picture. There are hydrogen conversion kits being readied for a 40-seat version of the Q300 and also for the ATR72 by United Hydrogen, so those are possibilities. I'm aware that a number of other hydrogen conversion initiatives are also in play. But it's also possible (they say) that they could go full electric - which at this stage means a 19-seater like the Heart ES-19, as ordered by UA (100 examples) and Sounds Air, among others.

If they do go the 19-seat full electric option, then this brings up a whole raft of possible new routes. In an earlier post I suggested that NZ could do a deal with S8 to operate for them on an ACMI basis, but this suggests they may prefer to operate their own aircraft.

There's been scepticism from some posters that the timeline is realistic when I've raised "sustainable aviation" before. However, I think this report illustrates that things are moving very fast. Exciting times!

2025 for an aircraft certified for commercial aviation seems very unlikely. I would think that any aircraft would need to successfully operate in a civil or defence environment for a period of time before a country's aviation authority or an airline would risk their safety reputations on such a new technology.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 2008
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:10 am

tullamarine wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Something that I missed over the Christmas break:

https://australianaviation.com.au/2021/ ... t-by-2025/

The link suggests that NZ is looking to sign a letter of intent for a "sustainable" aircraft in Q2 2022, with a view to taking delivery in 2025.

It's clear that the various Airbus initiatives are way in the future (2035-ish) so that's out of the picture. There are hydrogen conversion kits being readied for a 40-seat version of the Q300 and also for the ATR72 by United Hydrogen, so those are possibilities. I'm aware that a number of other hydrogen conversion initiatives are also in play. But it's also possible (they say) that they could go full electric - which at this stage means a 19-seater like the Heart ES-19, as ordered by UA (100 examples) and Sounds Air, among others.

If they do go the 19-seat full electric option, then this brings up a whole raft of possible new routes. In an earlier post I suggested that NZ could do a deal with S8 to operate for them on an ACMI basis, but this suggests they may prefer to operate their own aircraft.

There's been scepticism from some posters that the timeline is realistic when I've raised "sustainable aviation" before. However, I think this report illustrates that things are moving very fast. Exciting times!

2025 for an aircraft certified for commercial aviation seems very unlikely. I would think that any aircraft would need to successfully operate in a civil or defence environment for a period of time before a country's aviation authority or an airline would risk their safety reputations on such a new technology.

The technology is fundamentally "old" in the case of fully electric aircraft. The application, though, is new. Hydrogen fuel cells powering commercial aircraft, though: yes, I'd think there would be a longer period of certification, certainly.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1227
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:34 am

Does anyone know of a source that would have historical info on how many daily international flights there were pre Covid? Maybe CAA or Airways?

Just looking for some info on just how connected we were to the world when the whole thing blew up. Mostly to highlight that we aren’t some tiny nation with no global connections.
 
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Avtur
Posts: 38
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:16 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Does anyone know of a source that would have historical info on how many daily international flights there were pre Covid? Maybe CAA or Airways?

Just looking for some info on just how connected we were to the world when the whole thing blew up. Mostly to highlight that we aren’t some tiny nation with no global connections.


Don’t know about any sources. But I do know of some the carriers we don’t see anymore.

American
United
Air China
Thai
LATAM
Air Canada (haven’t seen them for a while)

That’s just a few of the ones I remember.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8428
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:13 am

Avtur wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Does anyone know of a source that would have historical info on how many daily international flights there were pre Covid? Maybe CAA or Airways?

Just looking for some info on just how connected we were to the world when the whole thing blew up. Mostly to highlight that we aren’t some tiny nation with no global connections.


Don’t know about any sources. But I do know of some the carriers we don’t see anymore.

American
United
Air China
Thai
LATAM
Air Canada (haven’t seen them for a while)

That’s just a few of the ones I remember.


None of those have actually pulled out, in fact I am not sure if any carriers have actually pulled out at all?
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1227
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Wed Dec 29, 2021 10:16 am

Article in RNZ on the CAA detailing they’re stretched to cover current requirements, let alone the extra stuff planned for by MBIE and ministers. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/458 ... race-plans
 
NZ516
Posts: 1003
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:33 pm

Sad news for Air NZ but not unexpected really. Air NZ trims it's international network to just 6 destinations in Q1 2022.
They will still have some cargo only flying on top of this hopefully.

https://simpleflying.com/air-new-zealan ... le-update/
 
NZ516
Posts: 1003
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2021

Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:41 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
Avtur wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Does anyone know of a source that would have historical info on how many daily international flights there were pre Covid? Maybe CAA or Airways?

Just looking for some info on just how connected we were to the world when the whole thing blew up. Mostly to highlight that we aren’t some tiny nation with no global connections.


Don’t know about any sources. But I do know of some the carriers we don’t see anymore.

American
United
Air China
Thai
LATAM
Air Canada (haven’t seen them for a while)

That’s just a few of the ones I remember.


None of those have actually pulled out, in fact I am not sure if any carriers have actually pulled out at all?


Many won't be back as Airlines usually keep it quiet when they close a route off as they don't want bad news public. If NZ stays closed off we will see lots of airlines quietly leave and redeploy their assets to markets where they can make some money. Air Canada was flying cargo only flights recently but I not see them here for a while.

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