Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
kaitak wrote:- EI axes MAN-US flights due to poor loads
kaitak wrote:
The vibes and the lack of a hysterical reaction and rush towards new restrictions, (apart from one or two countries) suggest less concern than existed about the Delta variant and an apparent confidence that health authorities will be able to handle whatever comes, with the already announced (and faster) rollout of booster shots and renewed calls for the unvaccinated to get themselves vaccinated.
OA260 wrote:Just announced that from Friday an antigen / PCR test will be needed to fly to the ROI . This will no doubt trigger quite a lot of cancelations .
Eirules wrote:What utter nonsense. So for 18 months the snake oil tests have been vilified by NPHET & govt. Now I can take one on Fri a’noon, go to Liverpool on a bender & use same test to come back Sun morning but I still can’t go to a pub in Dublin unvaccinated! Who makes this up?
BrianDromey wrote:[
As a point of interest Spain has already moved to ban unvaccinated arrivals from the UK, regardless of test results.
OA260 wrote:BHD / BFS yield management will be having Turkey this Christmas . Probably not long before we see fares of £300-400 ! When will the Irish government ever learn . The CTA should have at least been excluded .
OA260 wrote:" Happy to receive CONFIRMATION that new #COVID19 international travel measures announced by U.K. Govt, involving extra PCR testing on arrival, will NOT apply to the CTA. So travellers from #Ireland to U.K. will be unaffected."
https://twitter.com/simoncoveney/status ... 30113?s=21
BrianDromey wrote:Eirules wrote:What utter nonsense. So for 18 months the snake oil tests have been vilified by NPHET & govt. Now I can take one on Fri a’noon, go to Liverpool on a bender & use same test to come back Sun morning but I still can’t go to a pub in Dublin unvaccinated! Who makes this up?
Well if you think about the timeline for tests to become positive, then it does make some sense and is not just being "made up", this has always been the case for countries that require testing prior to arrival - the test has to be taken at T-X prior to arrival, where it is taken or what you have chosen to do in the interim has never been taken into consideration. NPHET have been fairly consistent in their opposition to rapid antigen tests, at least until the evidence became overwhelming. It's a bit like the masks - where individuals cited a paucity of data as evidence of them being ineffective, which is not quite the same thing.
The entry requirements to the UK from outside the CTA are similar to what is proposed for entry to Ireland - a negative test should be taken on Day 0, 1 or 2 after arrival. This can be a lateral flow or PCR, unless coming from certain countries. Personally I feel a pre-departure rapid test and a Day 2 PCR is a good combination as you are preventing people with high viral loads travelling in the first place and have the ability to monitor/sequence for variants with the post-arrival tests. My feeling is that these tests should be HSE/NHS administered and free at the point of care, as a public health protection measure, but that does not seem to be the way things are.
As a point of interest Spain has already moved to ban unvaccinated arrivals from the UK, regardless of test results. If you are unvaccinated you can't go, so its not just the pub where the unvaccinated are running into problems.
BrianDromey wrote:Personally I feel a pre-departure rapid test and a Day 2 PCR is a good combination as you are preventing people with high viral loads travelling in the first place and have the ability to monitor/sequence for variants with the post-arrival tests. My feeling is that these tests should be HSE/NHS administered and free at the point of care, as a public health protection measure, but that does not seem to be the way things are.
shamrock350 wrote:Painfully predictable response from the Irish Government regarding entry test requirements, it will achieve absolutely nothing at this stage while inflicting serious damage on an industry still struggling to its feet.kaitak wrote:- EI axes MAN-US flights due to poor loads
Anyone actually have a source or some details on this? With the current panic over the new variant it wouldn't surprise me but so far I haven't seen any confirmed cancellations, flights are still available for booking throughout Dec, Jan and Feb at their published schedules. So far forward bookings for the MAN-USA routes have been pretty strong, if any route is facing demand based cancellations it would be BGI judging on its performance so far.
OA260 wrote:Unvaccinated even from GB must have full PCR and antigen not allowed.
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/a83 ... nal-travel
aireuropef100 wrote:We are supposed to fly on St Stephen's Day from LGW to DUB on a flight we rescheduled 5 times from Easter 2020. With 5 of us travelling we are looking at £350 or so in PCR tests we have to take on 23rd and pray we get these on 24th. All of us have been double vaccinated and get booster this weekend, it now means our PCR tests come to more than the flights did originally. I just hope someone checks us as wife and daughter wasted £109 on tests in August and were just waved through with a flash of the passport. If the government wants to get air travel back in business it should not be hurting the cash cow of UK-IE travel. Already seeing flights to BHD going up in price as people look at other options
shamrock350 wrote:Only major item missing appears to be the breakfast.
OA260 wrote:Ryanair are giving away their seats from DUB. They have the Canary Islands from €55 return in December.
AmricanShamrok wrote:OA260 wrote:Ryanair are giving away their seats from DUB. They have the Canary Islands from €55 return in December.
Unreal value considering I paid €80 for a free* return trip with EI to LPA last month.
*taxes and charges applied
OA260 wrote:I know saw EI flights to ACE today for €117 return over Christmas . 10 days ago they were up around €450. Its not the test itself which at Eurofins ACE in the terminal is only €30 but if you test positive where do you go. Thats what is scaring people so they are just cancelling.
iRISH251 wrote:Ireland is already maxed out on use of its public PCR testing capacity at a cost of maybe €500m a year. Why should the State - even if it could, which I strongly doubt - fund testing which in the majority of cases is to enable travel for people's personal reasons. I don't at all begrudge people for travelling for leisure or other reasons but the costs associated with this should fall to the individual, or their employer if they are travelling for business purposes. Irish taxpayers arguably already get a poor enough deal when you look at the causes towards which governments have been willing to contribute generously; we don't need another "the Government should pay" arrangement here.
Clydenairways wrote:BrianDromey wrote:Eirules wrote:What utter nonsense. So for 18 months the snake oil tests have been vilified by NPHET & govt. Now I can take one on Fri a’noon, go to Liverpool on a bender & use same test to come back Sun morning but I still can’t go to a pub in Dublin unvaccinated! Who makes this up?
Well if you think about the timeline for tests to become positive, then it does make some sense and is not just being "made up", this has always been the case for countries that require testing prior to arrival - the test has to be taken at T-X prior to arrival, where it is taken or what you have chosen to do in the interim has never been taken into consideration. NPHET have been fairly consistent in their opposition to rapid antigen tests, at least until the evidence became overwhelming. It's a bit like the masks - where individuals cited a paucity of data as evidence of them being ineffective, which is not quite the same thing.
The entry requirements to the UK from outside the CTA are similar to what is proposed for entry to Ireland - a negative test should be taken on Day 0, 1 or 2 after arrival. This can be a lateral flow or PCR, unless coming from certain countries. Personally I feel a pre-departure rapid test and a Day 2 PCR is a good combination as you are preventing people with high viral loads travelling in the first place and have the ability to monitor/sequence for variants with the post-arrival tests. My feeling is that these tests should be HSE/NHS administered and free at the point of care, as a public health protection measure, but that does not seem to be the way things are.
As a point of interest Spain has already moved to ban unvaccinated arrivals from the UK, regardless of test results. If you are unvaccinated you can't go, so its not just the pub where the unvaccinated are running into problems.
It's potentially much worse than this for Aviation. What it demonstrates is that travel restrictions can still be introduced at a moment's notice and this will have an impact on potential recovery in 2022.
There is lots of potential demand but uncertainty over government restrictions is the biggest concern for planning any trips.
IrishTexan wrote:Travel to the USA may become more challenging.
Major announcement tomorrow (Thursday) likely to include testing requirement on day before travel, another 5 days after arrival AND mandatory 7 day quarantine with fines/penalties for failure to comply!
Expected to apply to all inbound passengers including returning US citizens.
Multiple news outlets all reporting the exact same predictions but none seem to have any details on start date.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... -us-entry/
IrishTexan wrote:The only media rumor that was correct is that the negative test requirement goes from three days prior to travel to just one day prior.
No mention of post arrival tests or quarantine.
factsonly wrote:EI's return will take ORK-AMS to 4x daily in a slow winter season.
Any bets on ...for how long.
BrianDromey wrote:Thats very true. While there are worse places to be stuck than the Canaries, if you are not prepared and have no ability to work remotely its a bit of a disaster. Two weeks in a hotel room wouldn't be great either - on the wallet or on the mind. The stories of crew being quarantined in extremely basic accommodation in Hong Kong would put anyone off traveling, which might well be the point.
OA260 wrote:Some interesting load factors for FR .
Ryanair passenger numbers drop in November
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/12 ... -november/
AmricanShamrok wrote:I see EI145 is the flight number for the new MAN-JFK route. This used to be the number for DUB-LAX. The OCD within me would love to do a job on renumbering all EI flights/routes!
BrianDromey wrote:I think EI seem to be holding on OK on DUB-AMS with both FR and KL offering flights.
factsonly wrote:BrianDromey wrote:I think EI seem to be holding on OK on DUB-AMS with both FR and KL offering flights.
Just a comment on this last statement.
I would say EI struggles on DUB-AMS, as the airline has reduced its frequency significantly in COVID times.
This route is a perfect example that EI has difficulty competing with LCC's on one side and the fortress hub carriers on the other side.
Due to much lower TATL connecting traffic, EI is largely reduced to carrying point-to-point traffic on the route, which competes with FR pricing in particular.
KLM attracts traffic to/from Ireland from around its global network, in addition to point-to-point traffic generated by its loyalty programme - while operating lower cost regional aircraft to maintain frequency.
In EI's monopoly days, in the early 2000's, the airline operated DUB-AMS 5x daily (including night-stop), ORK-AMS 2x daily, and even tried BFS-AMS 1x daily.
In 2015 FR arrived on the route 4x daily DUB-AMS and KLM joined the route in 2016 with 4x daily, EI reduced to 4x daily in response.
Today, FR operates upto 4x and 5x daily (Mon/Fri) and KLM 4x daily, while EI is down to 2x daily.
This is a loss of marketshare.
AmricanShamrok wrote:EI-FNA (former Stobart Air/Aer Lingus Regional), an ATR 72-600, has been transferred to and repainted in Olympic Air colours. Pictured here in both liveries at SNN: https://flyinginireland.com/2021/12/sha ... -update-8/
IrishLessor wrote:factsonly wrote:Aer Lingus isn't Ryanair so no point losing money to capture share and equally no point go after the KLM piece which is in capacity terms for Dub to AMS small.
IrishLessor wrote:Completely right Galwayman.
They'd much prefer passengers boarding their flights were making a connection were connecting and supporting their long haul operation. The data I've seen heard this out. Anyway, all of the network carriers such as BA, LH, KL, TP and IB etc are doing great network traffic from Dublin.