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Jshank83
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:54 pm

william wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
william wrote:
What does the old STL hub look like now? Still half empty? There was a plan to tear down some of the concourses.

AA,NK,F9 and AS take up most of the C concourse now. Still a few empty gates. D concourse has slowly been reopened as WN has expanded. Still some empty gates along there as well.


Looking at Google Maps did they demolish some of C concourse?


Nothing has been demolished.
A is full
B is now event space.
C is mostly reopened except for a few gates at the end.
D is still mostly closed except for 4 gates southwest is using now and have been changed to T2/E
T2/E is full of southwest and also has customs gates (2 of the 3 Southwest uses for non international flights also).
 
FlapOperator
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:40 pm

PB26 wrote:
TWA was the company which downfall you can blame just one person: Carl Icahn.


Honestly, I'd say Carl Icahn killed it, but Alfred Kahn drove it to the scene of the crime. Deregulation was known at the time to victimize certain airlines to the benefit of others. It was a feature, not a bug, and TWA and its employees were billpayers for that.
 
sgbroimp
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:20 pm

You guys have stimulated another memory. May 1967, Rhein-Main Air Base. My three years of US Army active duty almost up. Everyone rotating back is looking to see if they have to train it to Bremerhaven for an awful boat trip or to Frankfurt for a jet trip back. There was this gleaming TWA all coach 707 waiting for us, headphones on the seats with a movie coming! One bunch of happy campers flying into McGuire and in a couple of days released at Ft. Dix. This was Vietnam time also and I guess the fact that I spoke German got me sent in that direction. May have saved my life. God rest those souls who were not so lucky.
 
Viajero
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:44 pm

caleb1 wrote:
For an extremely in depth look at TWA from an employee's perspective, please take a look at jonproctor.net. Although Mr. Proctor passed away a few years ago, his website is still up, and it offers a wealth of insight and information about TWA from the 1960s through the 1980s. It is an incredible resource!

Another good reference source for TWA, especially the early years is “Fly the Finest; Fly TWA A History 1925-1987” by the late George W. Cearley Jr.
 
F9Animal
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:46 pm

I had the pleasure of working as a Skycap for TWA curb in LAS in the mid to late 1990's. STL was okay tip wise, but JFK was money!

I had the infamous Joan Jett arrive on a tour bus one night with a ton of band equipment. She snapped her fingers at me after getting off the bus and waved me to come over. I had a line of JFK passengers waiting too.

Anyways, she proceeds to tell me she is gonna take good care of me and hands me her group of tickets. I want to say there were about 30 oversized and overweight pieces of equipment. Long story short, I got all of it tagged and done in less than 5 minutes! She walks up to me with a CD in her hand and hands it to me. She proceeds to walk off. Keep in mind, all the JFK passengers are watching this play out.

I proceed to open the CD expecting to find a nice tip inside, but nothing. The only thing inside was an autograph. The look on all the New Yorkers faces were priceless! I proceed to throw the CD in the garbage and take care of my now patiently waiting passengers.

I made a killing tip wise. Every passenger handed me $20 to even a $100 tip. Many couldn't believe what she did to me. After checking in the last JFK passenger, I went to the bagroom to check on the rampers who had to lug and load her junk. I handed them a $20 bill each and told them I would have given more, but she stiffed me.

The very next day, the TWA Station manager paid me a visit. I knew exactly what she was there for! She asked me why I didn't bring Joan Jett inside to pay for the excess fees which would have easily brought in over $1,000. I was brutally honest and even told her how I got stiffed. In fact she told me she knew we lived off tips, and would let this one slide. The TWA family was awesome!
 
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william
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:06 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
william wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
AA,NK,F9 and AS take up most of the C concourse now. Still a few empty gates. D concourse has slowly been reopened as WN has expanded. Still some empty gates along there as well.


Looking at Google Maps did they demolish some of C concourse?


Nothing has been demolished.
A is full
B is now event space.
C is mostly reopened except for a few gates at the end.
D is still mostly closed except for 4 gates southwest is using now and have been changed to T2/E
T2/E is full of southwest and also has customs gates (2 of the 3 Southwest uses for non international flights also).


Thanks, the new concrete on the end of C must be tarmac replacement. I concourse B eventually coming back but not D. Good news about C.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:31 pm

william wrote:

Thanks, the new concrete on the end of C must be tarmac replacement. I concourse B eventually coming back but not D. Good news about C.


The WN parts of D or being absorbed into E. If any D gates near C open up they may just be designated as C gates. When B6 opens their long awaited STL focus city I see them opening 6 gates on B. Get it, 6B/B6? Ok I'm done. ;)
 
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SuperGee
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:30 am

My first flight on TWA was in the early 70's and was one of a several "firsts". It was also my first flight on a 747, a 747-100 which was also one of the first 747's for TWA. TWA was operating 747's on domestic routes (point to point completely within the USA) for a few years at the time. For TWA, that meant mostly between the coasts (LAX-JFK, JFK-SFO, etc). Other airlines operated 747's on routes within the US for those years as well until they all realized that the 747 was too much capacity for the routes and diverted them to international use.

I lived near NYC at the time and my first flight was from JFK to SFO. I remember marveling at the spectacular TWA terminal by Eero Saarinen the first time I saw it. I was equally amazed at the size of 747's interior when I first entered it from the jet way. I had flown on both DC-8's and 707's by that time and was totally unprepared for the spaciousness of the 747. I had a seat at the window just in front of the wing. It provided a great view of the P&W JT9D engines and it was thrilling to hear them screaming on the climb out from the NY area.

The flight itself was one of the most pleasant I've ever had. The service was impeccable and the food was good. It was also the first time that I experienced an inflight movie on a flight. It wasn't on seat back videos like they are today. The TWA attendants waited until all of the trays had been gathered after dinner then pulled down a large screen at the front of each cabin and started the projectors. It was a wonderful experience and was the first of a number of 747 flights I would make on TWA between JFK-SFO.

I was first attracted to TWA by the Lockheed L-1649 Super G Constellation (as you can probably tell from my avatar) which, when in TWA livery I have always thought was the most beautiful airliner ever built, bar none. I still do. I really miss TWA today. I flew it many times since those first days on the 747's and always chose it on routes where I had a choice. It was a great airline with style and class, great times, great years. I'm sure it would still be my preferred airline if it were around today.
 
rove312
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:18 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
capejet wrote:
What was the story on TWA Headquarters? They were first based in Kansas City. Did that building survive the wrecking ball? I thought I read that it was going to be given a historical designation. Did that ever happen? After Kansas City Headquarters was moved to New York City in Manhattan somewhere. Anyone know where? So after that didn't Carl Icahn move it out to the suburbs somewhere so he wouldn't have to commute? Finally it was moved to St Louis. Right? I wonder if any employees ever worked at all those locations during their career.


The original HQ is the large hanger complex on the southeast side of Kansas City Downtown airport. It later became the Executive Beechcraft, and now a Signature FBO. There is a small but excellent TWA museum there in addition to the Airline History Museum across the field.

Did I miss a mention of this TWA headquarters in Kansas City? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Corporate_Headquarters_Building Headquarters 1956-64, it's around the main arts gallery district, and they've preserved (or brought back) a TWA rocket on the roof.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:19 pm

F9Animal wrote:
I made a killing tip wise. Every passenger handed me $20 to even a $100 tip. Many couldn't believe what she did to me. After checking in the last JFK passenger, I went to the bagroom to check on the rampers who had to lug and load her junk. I handed them a $20 bill each and told them I would have given more, but she stiffed me.

The very next day, the TWA Station manager paid me a visit. I knew exactly what she was there for! She asked me why I didn't bring Joan Jett inside to pay for the excess fees which would have easily brought in over $1,000. I was brutally honest and even told her how I got stiffed. In fact she told me she knew we lived off tips, and would let this one slide. The TWA family was awesome!


I love reading stories like this - thanks for that!

I never had the opportunity to fly TWA unfortunately. They certainly sound like a great outfit. I'm due to overnight at JFK in January, so I'll be staying in the hotel and checking out that very famous terminal building. Can't wait!
 
lijnden
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:08 pm

My first B747 flight was on TWA ship 17104, an early build B747-100, from LHR-LAX
My first L1011 flight was on TWA from SFO-JFK (red-eye flight)
My last L1011 flight was on TWA from AMS-JFK
So yes, TWA was important to my aviation life…
 
JEB79
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:48 pm

My first time flying in 1990 I was 11 and flying solo to stay with relatives for the summer. Routing was LGA-PBI-LGA on the L1011. Needless to say I was enamored by the 1011, and to add a bonus I got to see the space shuttle taking off as we descended into PBI. When it came time to return to NY, my Uncle drove me to the airport and I was blown away by the enormous 1011 parked at the gate that was easily visible from the roadway compared to how small whatever other aircraft were there at the time.

I swear to this day that we had a movie on the way down and it was 'Misery' If any former employees or even passenger could verify this I would be so greatful because nobody believe me!!!

My second time flying was in Spring 1996 was from JFK-CDG on 800 741 and MXP-JFK on 843 762...probably two of the most recognizable flight numbers in TWA history and a mere 2 months before the tragic crash. 800 was nearly empty so we (myself and my classmates headed on a euro tour) had rows to ourselves. I slept most of the time so I dont remember much. 843 on the other hand was nearly full.

The flight center was quite a sight, though in a rather sad state by that time.

Im enjoying all these memories!
 
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DL757NYC
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:41 am

They may be gone but their aircraft are still with is. The 757’s with the TW on the reg still.
 
trent768
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:40 am

Did TW still operates the Tristars from LAX/JFK/DFW around 95/96?? My dad had a summer course in Dallas and traveled to NY/LA on AA after the program. He told 5 y.o. me once he got home that AA had this cool plane called the Super 80 that could reverse with its own power (I later found out that it was MD-80 doing the power back) and that "an airline that he never heard of" named TWA had this very beautiful looking plane called the Tristar.

He had very little knowledge about aviation at the time, but I'm already an avgeek since I could remember. So he asked the airport staff about every interesting looking plane, just so he can tell me about "American plane" once he got home.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:10 pm

trent768 wrote:

Did TW still operates the Tristars from LAX/JFK/DFW around 95/96?? My dad had a summer course in Dallas and traveled to NY/LA on AA after the program. He told 5 y.o. me once he got home that AA had this cool plane called the Super 80 that could reverse with its own power (I later found out that it was MD-80 doing the power back) and that "an airline that he never heard of" named TWA had this very beautiful looking plane called the Tristar.

He had very little knowledge about aviation at the time, but I'm already an avgeek since I could remember. So he asked the airport staff about every interesting looking plane, just so he can tell me about "American plane" once he got home.


http://www.departedflights.com/TWJFKhub.html

According to this TWA stopped flying JFK-DFW in '92. Entirely possible he flew a Tristar to STL from JFK around that time and connected in STL. JFK-LAX more than likely had a Tristar or two on the route.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:14 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
trent768 wrote:

Did TW still operates the Tristars from LAX/JFK/DFW around 95/96?? My dad had a summer course in Dallas and traveled to NY/LA on AA after the program. He told 5 y.o. me once he got home that AA had this cool plane called the Super 80 that could reverse with its own power (I later found out that it was MD-80 doing the power back) and that "an airline that he never heard of" named TWA had this very beautiful looking plane called the Tristar.

He had very little knowledge about aviation at the time, but I'm already an avgeek since I could remember. So he asked the airport staff about every interesting looking plane, just so he can tell me about "American plane" once he got home.


http://www.departedflights.com/TWJFKhub.html

According to this TWA stopped flying JFK-DFW in '92. Entirely possible he flew a Tristar to STL from JFK around that time and connected in STL. JFK-LAX more than likely had a Tristar or two on the route.


TWA withdrew its last L1011 from service in 1997. JFK to LAX and JFK-SFO were primarily L1011 routes until the type was retired, with LAX getting one and sometimes two frequencies on the 747. JFK to STL on the L1011 wasn't uncommon. It was essentially a hub to hub positioning flight.
 
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intotheair
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:26 am

These were fun to read, even though I never got to fly TWA. TWA existed during my lifetime, and even though I was a young avgeek, I have almost no memory of TWA. I never really had a high perception of it compared to Pan Am, but I guess I was wrong. A lot of the TWA glory seems to have been restored somewhat with the hotel at JFK.

I also find it amusing that somebody on Twitter maintains an account as if TWA is still an airline that just so happens to no longer have any more flights:

https://twitter.com/FlyTransWorld
 
DETA737
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:52 pm

One thing I give the employees a lot of credit for was offering good customer service until the end. TWA won several JD power and associates awards despite the financial troubles and their effects on their employees.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/flyers-lik ... ental-twa/

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html
 
slider
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:58 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
trent768 wrote:

Did TW still operates the Tristars from LAX/JFK/DFW around 95/96?? My dad had a summer course in Dallas and traveled to NY/LA on AA after the program. He told 5 y.o. me once he got home that AA had this cool plane called the Super 80 that could reverse with its own power (I later found out that it was MD-80 doing the power back) and that "an airline that he never heard of" named TWA had this very beautiful looking plane called the Tristar.

He had very little knowledge about aviation at the time, but I'm already an avgeek since I could remember. So he asked the airport staff about every interesting looking plane, just so he can tell me about "American plane" once he got home.


http://www.departedflights.com/TWJFKhub.html

According to this TWA stopped flying JFK-DFW in '92. Entirely possible he flew a Tristar to STL from JFK around that time and connected in STL. JFK-LAX more than likely had a Tristar or two on the route.


TWA withdrew its last L1011 from service in 1997. JFK to LAX and JFK-SFO were primarily L1011 routes until the type was retired, with LAX getting one and sometimes two frequencies on the 747. JFK to STL on the L1011 wasn't uncommon. It was essentially a hub to hub positioning flight.


TW was still doing STL-PHX in peak season about that time too.
 
N649DL
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:36 pm

Never got a chance to *technically* fly with TWA but I did have the "AAdvantage" of flying the remains at AA with:

1. M83 on EWR-ORD in F in 2007 (This seat wasn't as comfy as the legacy S80s though).

2. Having a fabulous purser on DFW-PVR in F who was ex-TWA on an S80 based in STL in 2008.

3. Flying an ex-TWA 757 on DFW-BWI in 2007. This was a sharp looking machine with it's seats and drop down LCDs especially compared to legacy AA's at the time. The latter of which was my ride back to DFW connecting to a 738 back to LAX.
 
hohd
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:30 pm

I had good memories on TWA and their frequent flyer program was fairly generous. Got an upgrade twice on the JFK-LHR route. In many ways, STL was a great hub, smack in the middle of the country, but for some reason TWA could not compete. If they had alliances with foreign carriers may they would survived.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:21 pm

I never flew ‘real’ TWA, but did fly on branded props twice.

Once in 1993, when I was 2 years old, JFK-ORF. I know it was TW because the wonder of the Saarinen terminal was etched into my toddler mind. I’m guessing that was an ATR-42 as we boarded via steps at the rear door.

The other time was in 1999. We were booked to fly CO ORF-EWR-MAN, but ORF-EWR was cancelled and CO rebooked us TW ORF-JFK VS JFK-LHR BD LHR-MAN. ORF-JFK was on a Jetstream 42. That flight was memorable as there was no service and the FA sat in an empty passenger seat reading a magazine, only getting up to tell 2 passengers who were in a heated argument to pack it in. They didn’t, and got into a physical altercation, so the captain came back to tell them to stop or he would divert. That trip was also my only flight on a Jetstream, only flight on Virgin Atlantic to date, and only flight on British Midland (although I did fly BD a couple of times as BMI).
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:29 pm

I flew with TWA several times from ICT-STL. I remember flying an AA 757 from SEA-STL during their final dehubbing of STL. As a little boy from Wichita, I thought STL was massive and it was always packed with people. The reality of the situation sunk in on my last flight when our 757 pulled up to the gate and the airport was empty. A mere shell of its former self. It was quite a sad thing to see a once bustling hub robbed of its former glory.
 
B595
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:22 pm

Always wanted to fly TWA, and to this day I love their red & white scheme, one of history’s most iconic. But they just weren’t big enough in New England to offer compelling options compared to the likes of USAir and Delta/BizEx. My best chance came when Metro Air Northeast served smaller New England markets under the TW Express banner using Saab 340s.

At least there was some TWA presence in BOS. I distinctly remember taxiing past two TW L1011s side by side at the BOS terminal. They loomed impressively over our smaller airplane, which I think was a B1900.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:17 am

PB26 wrote:
TWA was the company which downfall you can blame just one person: Carl Icahn.


I mean he was one of the big factors...

But also the oil crises, the Middle East situations (including 2 TWA hijackings in the 80s) and TWA 800 contributed as well....and, you could say arguably that 9-11 was the nail on the coffin too.
 
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stl07
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:59 am

stlgph wrote:

There was the daily carnival atmosphere at the end of the C concourse as Flight 1 was gearing up for Honolulu.


Have you been to STL recently? That area is now where Spirit flies out of. It feels so weird
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:37 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
PB26 wrote:
TWA was the company which downfall you can blame just one person: Carl Icahn.


I mean he was one of the big factors...

But also the oil crises, the Middle East situations (including 2 TWA hijackings in the 80s) and TWA 800 contributed as well....and, you could say arguably that 9-11 was the nail on the coffin too.


Not really true and your timelines are off. The roots of TWA's demise sit squarely with the arrival of Carl Icahn, who had no interest in redeveloping the airline and setting it on a path toward profitability. He had no experience running an airline and was focused on breaking up the airline, arguing it was more valuable as a sum of its parts. The oil shocks were in the early 1970s not the 1980s and really didn't factor into TWA's demise. The incidents involving TWA's aircraft in the Middle East, namely the hijacking of TWA Flight 847 (CAI-ATH-FCO) which happened in 1985 and the bombing of TWA flight 840 operating FCO-ATH in 1986 were not that large of a factor relative to the company's demise, compared to Pan Am 103, which left a major mark on Pan Am's image and did accelerate its demise. The other TWA hijacking again happened in the early 70s as part of the Dawson Field incident, wasn't a factor. TWA Flight 800 very likely accelerated the perception that TWA's fleet was old and years of cost cutting left it vulnerable. Ironically, the same day that TWA 800 happened, the company had announced it had turned a corner, financially and was moving toward profitability.

What TWA needed in the 1980s was a plan to renew the fleet and rely less on the 747s. It also needed technology upgrades and further build out of its domestic route network. The Ozark acquisition helped to propel STL into a much larger hub but happened at a time of increased labor-management unrest, efforts to try and sell or merge TWA (there was an active pursuit of a merger with Continental at one point) and at least one strike action by flight attendants. The decision to sell the LHR slots was a huge mistake. It cost TWA valuable corporate contracts and rendered it a second / third tier player within a couple of years on North Atlantic routes. By the time 9/11 happened, TWA was already a part of American Airlines. AMR purchased TWA in Q1-2001 and by the time the terror attacks happened, TWA was a subsidiary of American Airlines.
 
jimmy9irons
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:04 pm

One of the factors in Pan Ams demise was the large fleet of 747s they bought, was this a factor in TWAs downfall? Given they were of a similar size did they purchase a similar number of 747s? They both had commonality in operating the L1011 and 747.
 
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TWA302
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:14 pm

jimmy9irons wrote:
One of the factors in Pan Ams demise was the large fleet of 747s they bought, was this a factor in TWAs downfall? Given they were of a similar size did they purchase a similar number of 747s? They both had commonality in operating the L1011 and 747.


PanAm had just over twice as many 747s over the course of their existence (66 for PA 29 for TW). The 747 was not a factor of TWAs demise. It was Carl Ichan who ultimately drove the nails into the coffin. Selling the London routes for next to nothing was one of the worst things he did. Oh, and throw in the Karuba ticket agreement and you just killed a great airline
 
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Seabear
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:18 pm

My last trip was DFW-STL-MLI back in the late 90's...also was my last ride on the classic DC-9, both legs.
 
CWizard
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:21 pm

In January 1968, I flew from TWA's very futuristic (at that time) terminal at JFK to Paris (Orly) on a 707. I don't think there were more than eight passengers onboard. Had "my own" F/A (they were called, stewardess, back then). She sat with me almost the entire trip.
Ah, the "good old days."
:)
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:25 pm

jimmy9irons wrote:
One of the factors in Pan Ams demise was the large fleet of 747s they bought, was this a factor in TWAs downfall? Given they were of a similar size did they purchase a similar number of 747s? They both had commonality in operating the L1011 and 747.


The continued reliance on the 747 for long haul flights, well into the 1980s was part of the problem, yes, not so much the purchase. They were harder to fill in the slower winter months and not very fuel efficient. Pan Am operated just a handful of L1011s. TWA had a much larger fleet (35 or so, total) and operated them a lot longer than Pan Am did. Pan Am had 3, all delivered in June, July, and August 1980 and withdrawn by 1986.
 
FCOTSTW
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:29 pm

Moose135 wrote:
My father spent nearly 40 years working for TWA, retiring in 1990. He was a mechanic at JFK, splitting time between Hangar 12 and Terminal 5. I grew up around that place, flights every summer through T5, I thought those tubes out to the gates were the neatest thing! When he was on vacation, he would go in to pick up his paycheck and would bring me along. He'd take me into the hangar to see if anything interesting was around - I still remember, as a little 10 year old kid, seeing a 747 for the first time. It was enormous, and I thought I'd never get to the top of the airstairs to go inside.

I'm sure I'm a little biased, but the folks at TWA were the best in the business. Friendly, professional, and no matter what happened, always got the job done with a smile. I'll always miss TWA.


For many of us, it was a passion, rather than a job.
 
FCOTSTW
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:47 pm

Well, let me put my two cents in...

I got hired by TWA in 1985 as a Ticket Sales Agent. Back then, all major airlines had city ticket offices and I was working in one of them. A thing that truly distinguished TWA, at that time was that it was the only transatlantic company to offer (1) seat selections and (2) issue a boarding pass 3 days before departure (a few years later, it extended it at ticket issuance). I remember the gray-and-black ticket printer, which was fed by a continuous ribbon of tickets and the smaller printer for the white and red boarding passes. We wore dark blue uniforms designed by Ralph Lauren, along with these shiny name tags. I remember the smoking section of the 747s, initially in the C section (starting from row 17?), which was later moved to the back of the plane. I remember the moment when crew was passing on the aisles with the duty free cart, mainly selling perfumes and cigarettes.

1986 was the year of maximum European expansion for TWA. We had many stations, some of them short-lived (such at Stuttgart, as an add-on to the JFK-MUC flight, CPH, OSL, and some others). Later on I witnessed the introduction of the short-lived FRA-SVO flight, which was flown by a 727 with the altimeter in meters, rather than in feet (I do not know if Russia still uses meters of if it was a Soviet rule) and unfortunately still remember when Carl Icahn sold the London routes to AA. That was most definitely one of the darkest moments of TWA. By that time, the future of TWA was clear, although the company tried to reinforce its CDG hub. I remember white-and-red 747s parked at the gates, each traveling in the same direction (Europe) but with many different destinations.

What TWA gave me was the joy to explore the world, the change to fly to the US for the weekend in first class, the chance of knowing a lot of people with different backgrounds. But most definitely, I was proud to be part of TWA.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:36 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
PB26 wrote:
TWA was the company which downfall you can blame just one person: Carl Icahn.


I mean he was one of the big factors...

But also the oil crises, the Middle East situations (including 2 TWA hijackings in the 80s) and TWA 800 contributed as well....and, you could say arguably that 9-11 was the nail on the coffin too.


Not really true and your timelines are off. The roots of TWA's demise sit squarely with the arrival of Carl Icahn, who had no interest in redeveloping the airline and setting it on a path toward profitability. He had no experience running an airline and was focused on breaking up the airline, arguing it was more valuable as a sum of its parts. The oil shocks were in the early 1970s not the 1980s and really didn't factor into TWA's demise. The incidents involving TWA's aircraft in the Middle East, namely the hijacking of TWA Flight 847 (CAI-ATH-FCO) which happened in 1985 and the bombing of TWA flight 840 operating FCO-ATH in 1986 were not that large of a factor relative to the company's demise, compared to Pan Am 103, which left a major mark on Pan Am's image and did accelerate its demise. The other TWA hijacking again happened in the early 70s as part of the Dawson Field incident, wasn't a factor. TWA Flight 800 very likely accelerated the perception that TWA's fleet was old and years of cost cutting left it vulnerable. Ironically, the same day that TWA 800 happened, the company had announced it had turned a corner, financially and was moving toward profitability.

What TWA needed in the 1980s was a plan to renew the fleet and rely less on the 747s. It also needed technology upgrades and further build out of its domestic route network. The Ozark acquisition helped to propel STL into a much larger hub but happened at a time of increased labor-management unrest, efforts to try and sell or merge TWA (there was an active pursuit of a merger with Continental at one point) and at least one strike action by flight attendants. The decision to sell the LHR slots was a huge mistake. It cost TWA valuable corporate contracts and rendered it a second / third tier player within a couple of years on North Atlantic routes. By the time 9/11 happened, TWA was already a part of American Airlines. AMR purchased TWA in Q1-2001 and by the time the terror attacks happened, TWA was a subsidiary of American Airlines.
:checkmark:
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:30 pm

william wrote:
What does the old STL hub look like now? Still half empty? There was a plan to tear down some of the concourses.

It's a shell of its former self. Even in Concourse A, some of the southern gates have been sealed and turned into convenience stores and restaurants. Concourse B is closed. Concourse C has almost the same situation as Concourse A: some gates have been sealed and turned to stores and the part of the concourse is closed off. Concourse D (which, if opened, could serve as the connection between Terminals 1 and 2) is closed down except for a couple of gates to accommodate additional WN flights. And Concourse E (all in Terminal 2) is occupied by WN and if I'm not mistaken, all gates are in use.

I still insist that opening Concourse D, even if just as a corridor between Terminals will be a boon. The only actual lounge is in Terminal 2 so it works if you're flying with WN, but not if you're flying with UA which literally at the westernmost end of Concourse A (which means you'd have to walk up to the central part of the terminal to take the train to Terminal 2 to go through security to enjoy the club to do it all in reverse).

OzarkD9S wrote:
When B6 opens their long awaited STL focus city I see them opening 6 gates on B.

I would totally become a B6 flier if they decide to start service here. I wonder why they haven't. B6 can easily serve its major operating bases or even help AA by shuttling passengers to JFK.
 
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TW11
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:31 am

First time posting, long time lurker!
This thread brings very fond memories. Sadly, I only flew TWA once (or twice if you count the return flight.

Even though this wasn’t my first flight on a widebody, it definitely was the first one I remember so vividly, as insss fll little to remember the first time I did when I was still a baby.

On August 20, 1993, my mother and I flew on TWA for the first time, from SJU to JFK. I remember the agent at the ticket counter being very friendly, and she even wrote “gate 39” on the ticket jacket. The inside of the jacket displayed TWA’s slogan from back then: “The most comfortable way to fly”.
Eventually, we made our way to gate 39, and I saw our carriage to JFK, an L-1011, parked at the gate. I was only 11 at the time (now you all know my actual age!), but I remember most details quite vividly because I was very excited about this trip. Even though this wasn’t my first flight on a widebody, it was the first one I remember since I was too little to remember the first 1-2 times when I was a baby/toddler.
At last, the gate agents made the boarding call for TW 11, departing at 12:55p. I was sorta disappointed I didn’t end up on a window seat - I was on 16C. We took off on runway 8 for the 3 hour, 18 minute flight. Everything about the flight - from the flight attendants (one of them gave me one of those plastic wings I still possess to this day), to the projectors above the seats for the inflight movie, to how smooth the flight was, to the inflight meal (rice with beef), to the way that plane touched down at JFK. I am not 100% sure which runway we landed on at JFK, but I somehow think it was 13L. Even our deplaning was special - that was the only time in all my years of flying that we deplaned from the right side (I remember reading somewhere that TWA’s Terminal 5 or 6 at JFK had a jet bridge designed like this - anyone knows what gate number was that?)
We ended up missing our flight on our return to SJU because of very heavy traffic due to a car accident on the Grand Central Parkway. We were supposed to get on TW 94, departing at 5:45p, and this time I was assigned a window seat (26A), but since we missed the flight, that was no longer going to be the case (an 11yo’s first world problems, haha).
We were rebooked for the following morning, September 1, 1993. At 8:00a, TW 12 was pushing back on a very gray JFK. I was on 34D. The little I could see out the left window from my seat was a couple of AA DC-10s and MD-11s as were taxiing towards runway 13R. Morning rush hour traffic at JFK delayed our takeoff by 30 minutes, and the dark clouds made our takeoff/climb quite bumpy. I wasn’t used to turbulence, and my seat being directly underneath engine #2, the whirring sounds I kept hearing as the plane suddenly dropped, along with everyone’s chatter turning into absolute silence as we flew a through that cloud, intensified how scared I felt at that moment, even though they were light to moderate chops but nothing severe. The reminder of the 3 hour, 1 minute flight went by smoothly, and we landed back in SJU’s runway 10 and arrived at gate 40/41.

So those were my only two flights with TWA - I am so heartbroken that our boarding passes, ticket jacket included, got lost somewhere. Mom always saved her boarding passes from every flight she’d been on, and I adopted the practice. And, although I’m almost sure this will be impossible, I also wish I could know the registration number for both L-1011s I was on for flights 11 and 12. It’d also be interesting to find out what equipment I’d been on had we made it on flight 94.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:30 am

Welcome TW11 to a.net! Nice, detailed memories from a long time ago. TWA used to do some funky numbering of the seats on their widebodies, so your seat 16C was actually 16-3 and 34D was 34-4.

Here is a good walkthrough of a TWA L-1011 before being scrapped. It might bring back some memories, it sure did for me!

http://youtu.be/K9RlsvHlOG4

Image

From: https://frequentlyflying.boardingarea.c ... estic.jpeg
 
stlgph
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:50 pm

Great video!
Thanks for sharing.
 
FlyOZA
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:01 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
william wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
AA,NK,F9 and AS take up most of the C concourse now. Still a few empty gates. D concourse has slowly been reopened as WN has expanded. Still some empty gates along there as well.


Looking at Google Maps did they demolish some of C concourse?


Nothing has been demolished.
A is full
B is now event space.
C is mostly reopened except for a few gates at the end.
D is still mostly closed except for 4 gates southwest is using now and have been changed to T2/E
T2/E is full of southwest and also has customs gates (2 of the 3 Southwest uses for non international flights also).


Another former D-Gate has recently been renumbered as E42. WN is expected to take only four more D-Gates due to the walking distance to E2 (decommissioned) or E4.

The proposed airport modernization plan will be interesting calling for One Terminal/One Concourse of at least 62 gates
 
Jshank83
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:30 pm

FlyOZA wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
william wrote:

Looking at Google Maps did they demolish some of C concourse?


Nothing has been demolished.
A is full
B is now event space.
C is mostly reopened except for a few gates at the end.
D is still mostly closed except for 4 gates southwest is using now and have been changed to T2/E
T2/E is full of southwest and also has customs gates (2 of the 3 Southwest uses for non international flights also).


Another former D-Gate has recently been renumbered as E42. WN is expected to take only four more D-Gates due to the walking distance to E2 (decommissioned) or E4.

The proposed airport modernization plan will be interesting calling for One Terminal/One Concourse of at least 62 gates


It’s been painted E42 on the ground for parking for a couple years now to the point where it’s getting pretty faded (unless they touched it up recently). I do think they take more gates but I’m not sure the E42 means much more than just a plane to RON a plane at this point
 
Atlwarrior
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:58 pm

SkyVoice wrote:
I would love to read any & all stories about TWA's short-lived Atlanta hub. Anyone?


It never happened, they were rumored to take over Eastern gates, I thought.
 
Atlwarrior
Posts: 523
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:02 pm

So how many flights did St. Louis have in its heyday. I saw a Ford documentary and the airline partner with Ford for air mail contracts, correct?
 
stlgph
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:44 pm

At the heydey it was well north of 600, probably approaching 700, perhaps?
You had TWA at 500+, a ton crammed into A - at that time that would have been US Airways, United, Air Canada, Delta, Northwest, Continental, America West....over in E you had a substantial Southwest operation plus Champion Air and USA 3000. ATA also went out of E at some point but I think they were gone before the true peak days of the late 90s, yes?
 
kraz911
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:23 pm

Hello all,
I have many fond memories. A dear family friend who was a senior flight brought me on flights to many different cities to explore. The MadDogs and 727s, always a window seat watching America pass by below us. Also, I was the lucky kid to get a cockpit visit during flights. Great times for a kid, different times for us all. My best memories were working for Simmons at ORD on the G Gates. TWA had their gates at the end of the terminal.They always had their L-1011s down there. What a beautiful aircraft. The fun part was when they pushed it back and started engines. The RB-211s spooled up so slowly and generated a low roar and rumble you can feel anywhere at the airport. Also when conditions were right, when they introduced fuel into the engine start up, it would fog the whole of the terminal area so bad the tower lost visual with us all. It was a long process to light all three engines and American and Simmons pilots were always upset being blocked behind the L-1011...
 
Cody
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:16 pm

Back in the Autumn of 1980, my Dad surprised me with a tour of the TWA operation in Pittsburgh. He was friends with a TWA dispatcher who worked in Pittsburgh (I never quite understood why TWA had dispatchers in Pittsburgh, but they had at least one.) His name was "Nick" and he showed us around a 707 and an L1011.

Both airplanes had the royal blue First Class seats with the red and white stripe down the middle. Economy had the blue, red and grey motif of the time.

Nick took us all throughout the 1011 including the lifts down to the lower galley. The one thing I remember that was different from most other L1011 operators was the fact that TWA had a full galley between doors 3L and 3R. Eastern and Delta had only coat closets in that location.

At the end of the tour, Nick gave my sister and me the TWA Games and Fun Pack for kids. I still have it including the little books on how to become a TWA pilot, Stewardess, and Mechanic.

Later in life I flew on the same TWA 727 that had the bomb go off between Rome and Athens. The routing was STL-IND.
 
BHMNONREV
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:34 pm

stlgph wrote:
At the heydey it was well north of 600, probably approaching 700, perhaps?
You had TWA at 500+, a ton crammed into A - at that time that would have been US Airways, United, Air Canada, Delta, Northwest, Continental, America West....over in E you had a substantial Southwest operation plus Champion Air and USA 3000. ATA also went out of E at some point but I think they were gone before the true peak days of the late 90s, yes?


Gavin, looks like the peak was 26 Oct 97 according to departed flights:

367 - Mainline
170 - Regional/Commuter
537 - Total

The 367 Mainline total was the highest at any point in the TW hub days, although the regional numbers were a bit higher on several occasions
 
stlgph
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:13 pm

Thanks for those numbers. That was a helluva operation for all the more "bigger" the C/D space is on the grand scheme of things.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: 20 years without Trans World Airlines

Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:24 pm

Cody wrote:
The one thing I remember that was different from most other L1011 operators was the fact that TWA had a full galley between doors 3L and 3R. Eastern and Delta had only coat closets in that location.


That’s the galley where a coffeemaker caught fire and burned up an airplane in BOS. Sometime in the early 1980s, that galley was removed for more seats (probably when the swivel chairs were removed from first class).

Image

From: https://www.fireengineering.com/content ... /img-1.jpg

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