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Boof02671
Topic Author
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Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:00 am

This really needs to be addressed.

The airlines, the FAA, DOT and DOJ need an emergency meeting and get Congress to do something also.

Is it going to take a flight attendant to be killed or seriously injured before things change?

Needs to be a National shared database and ban these people from ever flying again.

https://www.axios.com/unruly-passenger- ... 0a0cWpOY5g
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:26 am

Boof02671 wrote:
This really needs to be addressed.

The airlines, the FAA, DOT and DOJ need an emergency meeting and get Congress to do something also.

Is it going to take a flight attendant to be killed or seriously injured before things change?

Needs to be a National shared database and ban these people from ever flying again.

https://www.axios.com/unruly-passenger- ... 0a0cWpOY5g


100%. And criminal charges against every last one of them.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1947
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:34 am

In this case, since he assaulted a federal agent I'm sure he'll be penalized.
 
Flaps
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:36 am

Masks and alcohol can be a very toxic combination. Add in all of the other unpleasantries that come with commercial air travel today and well.....Boom. The problem is even greater than the media would have you believe. The vast majority of incidents do not get publicly reported.
 
Heinkel
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:46 pm

Flaps wrote:
Masks and alcohol can be a very toxic combination. Add in all of the other unpleasantries that come with commercial air travel today and well.....Boom. The problem is even greater than the media would have you believe. The vast majority of incidents do not get publicly reported.


Are these "unruly passer incidents" an US-American thing only?

I don't read of those incidents from other countries. Are there no such incidents in other countries or is the media coverage in the USA just tighter?

And I think most of these "unruly passengers" are on the low income side. So it doesn't help to fine them US-$ 40k. Most of them don't have so much money.
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:51 pm

Flaps wrote:
Masks and alcohol can be a very toxic combination. Add in all of the other unpleasantries that come with commercial air travel today and well.....Boom. The problem is even greater than the media would have you believe. The vast majority of incidents do not get publicly reported.


It's a piece of paper or cloth dude. Let me find my tinfoil hat.

Alcohol sure.
 
NLINK
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:41 pm

Flaps wrote:
Masks and alcohol can be a very toxic combination. Add in all of the other unpleasantries that come with commercial air travel today and well.....Boom. The problem is even greater than the media would have you believe. The vast majority of incidents do not get publicly reported.


You know the rules before getting on the aircraft. If you don't like it then don't fly on a commercial airplane.
 
TheSonntag
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:05 pm

Heinkel wrote:
Flaps wrote:
Masks and alcohol can be a very toxic combination. Add in all of the other unpleasantries that come with commercial air travel today and well.....Boom. The problem is even greater than the media would have you believe. The vast majority of incidents do not get publicly reported.


Are these "unruly passer incidents" an US-American thing only?
I don't read of those incidents from other countries. Are there no such incidents in other countries or is the media coverage in the USA just tighter?
And I think most of these "unruly passengers" are on the low income side. So it doesn't help to fine them US-$ 40k. Most of them don't have so much money.


Just google "Ryanair" and unruly passenger and you will find lots of them. It happens less frequent in Europe, but one reason is that usually, Europeans only tend to fly longer routes for leisure in the holiday season, so usually you have more business travel as passengers.

The US have a huge domestic market, in Europe, most people stay in their home country, and expats are usually not so known for unruly behaviour.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:11 pm

Flaps wrote:
Masks and alcohol can be a very toxic combination. Add in all of the other unpleasantries that come with commercial air travel today and well.....Boom. The problem is even greater than the media would have you believe. The vast majority of incidents do not get publicly reported.


Alcohol or not, anyone upset over a face covering has the emotional maturity of a five year-old.
 
Willjet
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:16 pm

Flaps wrote:
Masks and alcohol can be a very toxic combination. Add in all of the other unpleasantries that come with commercial air travel today and well.....Boom. The problem is even greater than the media would have you believe. The vast majority of incidents do not get publicly reported.


Not sure what's so toxic about masks? It's not an excuse.
 
visual8L
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 8:17 pm

Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:25 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
This really needs to be addressed.

The airlines, the FAA, DOT and DOJ need an emergency meeting and get Congress to do something also.

Is it going to take a flight attendant to be killed or seriously injured before things change?

Needs to be a National shared database and ban these people from ever flying again.

https://www.axios.com/unruly-passenger- ... 0a0cWpOY5g


A shared data base seems like a no-brainer.
The unfortunate part is there will always being an
Alternate bottom-feeding air carrier that will opportunistically take their money instead.
The data base has to restrict that.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:54 pm

Willjet wrote:
Flaps wrote:
Masks and alcohol can be a very toxic combination. Add in all of the other unpleasantries that come with commercial air travel today and well.....Boom. The problem is even greater than the media would have you believe. The vast majority of incidents do not get publicly reported.


Not sure what's so toxic about masks? It's not an excuse.



Because it's not really the masks - it's people who lack the self-awareness or intelligence to not let their lack experience or expertise get in the way of their strongly held opinions about pandemics & infectious disease, combined with the mentality that anything that they don't like is not true. Not to mention exhibit A of the lack of civics education over the last 50 years in the US.

The shared database is a no-brainer. Done right, that will be an effective security tool as opposed to the security theater that is most of what TSA does today.
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:06 pm

tlecam wrote:
Not to mention exhibit A of the lack of civics education over the last 50 years in the US.


Maybe at your school? Seriously, what does this have to do with an unruly passenger assaulting others?!
 
N312RC
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:08 pm

tlecam wrote:
Because it's not really the masks - it's people who lack the self-awareness or intelligence to not let their lack experience or expertise get in the way of their strongly held opinions about pandemics & infectious disease, combined with the mentality that anything that they don't like is not true. Not to mention exhibit A of the lack of civics education over the last 50 years in the US.


Bingo.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:16 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Not to mention exhibit A of the lack of civics education over the last 50 years in the US.


Maybe at your school? Seriously, what does this have to do with an unruly passenger assaulting others?!


Because the impetus for a lot of these incidents about mask wearing is, "My rights!" or wild, bizarre views about freedom of speech (which largely doesn't apply to private companies).
 
YoungDon
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:30 pm

tlecam wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Not to mention exhibit A of the lack of civics education over the last 50 years in the US.


Maybe at your school? Seriously, what does this have to do with an unruly passenger assaulting others?!


Because the impetus for a lot of these incidents about mask wearing is, "My rights!" or wild, bizarre views about freedom of speech (which largely doesn't apply to private companies).


Yep, exactly this. A lot of folks really don't understand how rights work as well as they think they do and it leads to entitled behavior like what we've seen in all of these recent incidents.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:42 pm

Is this the first incident where an Air Marshall was involved? We debated the pro's and con's of their involvement in the past. I hate to say it but perhaps the Air Marshall should have beat the crap out of the guy when he resisted. Maybe the word would get out to knock this off.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:51 pm

The Covid-19 pandemic has brought out the worst in too many people in the USA including when they travel by airplane. There are lot of bad political and social influences, the nature of American culture, rejection of authority, lack of trust in government that when told to wear a mask to protect crew and other passengers they become arrogant about. Add in the multitude of hassles and micro-aggressions to fly in recent years, alcohol use/abuse, drug use (both legal and illegal), existing mental health problems, so for some the mask requirement is just one too many restrictions that have triggered the massive rise in 'plane rage'. These are the people I don't want a flight if god forbid there is a survivable crash on take off or landing as would make things much worse. Still you cause a disturbance that causes assault and battery on crew, other passengers that means you need to be punished by law just as if on line. There must be near-zero tolerance of violence including criminal jail sentences, bans on air travel on any airliner for significant periods of time, civil damages for costs to the airline and passengers.
 
Cdydatzigs
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:58 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Not to mention exhibit A of the lack of civics education over the last 50 years in the US.


Maybe at your school? Seriously, what does this have to do with an unruly passenger assaulting others?!

I think he's confusing high school civics classes with being civil.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 4:49 pm

ltbewr wrote:
The Covid-19 pandemic has brought out the worst in too many people in the USA including when they travel by airplane. There are lot of bad political and social influences, the nature of American culture, rejection of authority, lack of trust in government that when told to wear a mask to protect crew and other passengers they become arrogant about. Add in the multitude of hassles and micro-aggressions to fly in recent years, alcohol use/abuse, drug use (both legal and illegal), existing mental health problems, so for some the mask requirement is just one too many restrictions that have triggered the massive rise in 'plane rage'. These are the people I don't want a flight if god forbid there is a survivable crash on take off or landing as would make things much worse. Still you cause a disturbance that causes assault and battery on crew, other passengers that means you need to be punished by law just as if on line. There must be near-zero tolerance of violence including criminal jail sentences, bans on air travel on any airliner for significant periods of time, civil damages for costs to the airline and passengers.

I agree with you, except on the jail sentence.

Jails in the US are overcrowded and a money grab; plus, with all the violence happening in there, it could make matters worse.
Make the perpetrator of non-lethal crimes repay all monetary losses to the victims (and no, your Liability Insurance money - if available - will not be allowed to help) plus a fine commensurate to your earnings and wealth right before the act (so that wealthy daddy cannot disavow you to shield his millions). Top that with Community Service (real one, not BS one) and that should help solve a lot of problems.
 
johns624
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 4:51 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
This really needs to be addressed.

The airlines, the FAA, DOT and DOJ need an emergency meeting and get Congress to do something also.

Is it going to take a flight attendant to be killed or seriously injured before things change?

Needs to be a National shared database and ban these people from ever flying again.

https://www.axios.com/unruly-passenger- ... 0a0cWpOY5g
There are already laws against this, they just need to be strictly enforced. Passing new laws is just "feel good" legislation and won't change a thing if they aren't enforced, either.
 
SXDFC
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:38 pm

Mental health has been at an all time low, and it’s effecting people in a multitude of ways. For the most part when people are flying, they’re going on vacation, perhaps the first in a long time, others have other reasons why they fly. From long TSA lines, short staffed airport concessions, to delays, cancellations and other sorts of drama, it makes the overall travel experience an anxiety ridden nightmare. When people feel anxious, nervous, etc what do they take to? Pills, and booze. Some people can keep their composure when under the influence, some people can’t. For those who can’t, you have videos all over social media who highlight their belligerence..

I am a crew member, however also during this pandemic you have other crew members who are without a doubt overbearing with the rules. This in itself creates drama and can also contribute to the drama you see on the planes. With all the drama mentioned in the airports above, sometimes an overbearing crew member can very well be the “cherry on top” of someone who’s already at their wits end. However (and again speaking as a crew member) were also going through the ebbs and flows of reroutes, long days, and short overnights. If you’re flight is cancelled, and rerouted, odds are ours are too. For some on here who want to quote this and say “that’s part of the job,” well go submit an application to the airlines, they’re hiring!

Life hasn’t been easy for a lot of us during these past 12+ months. It all effects us in different ways. I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again. There’s a lot more to working in this industry than paint jobs, fleet renewals, and all the other hobby and enthusiasts ways of looking at this industry. IMHO, and we can all agree aviation rules and regulations are written in blood. It’s not a matter of IF but WHEN a Gate agent, Supervisor, Flight Attendant, or someone else gets killed during an altercation with an irate passenger. It will be then the rules start firmly being enforced.
 
757SanCam
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:55 pm

When you walk into an airport, rules are constantly displayed/announced as you proceed to your gate. These are pretty simple rules which over 99% of passengers comply. With the FAA clamping down with stiffer fines and individual airlines banning passengers for breaking the rules, it's time for the FAA to step up and put offenders on a national do not fly list. This must be publicized in every form of media including social. Most people don't watch nor read traditional news sources nor do they pay attention at airports. Those of us that fly regularly have seen no masks at airport and improperly worn masks on planes, passenger having had one too many drinks before boarding, the lists go on.

The threat of not being able to fly anywhere in US, might register with some of these idiots, but if not, enjoy the real long drive to wherever you were going to fly to!
 
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Gonzalo
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:22 pm

Not only a problem in the US for sure... Just a few weeks ago on an international flight between two South American countries, I witnessed first hand a very unpleasant exchange of violent words on the gate agents of my flight, it was masks related, no alcohol or drugs involved ( a 55-60 y/o couple connecting from a flight originated in Auckland, both sober, but very disrespectful and aggressive against the airline workers ). Fact is, the airline workers were correct and asking just the minimum, but this two persons were truly convinced that "being tired after a twelve hours flight from New Zealand" was enough reason to not follow the rules for the next flight....Rules are crystal clear, and like others said before, if you don't like the rules, rent a car ( or a ship!! ) and don't fly!!

Rgds.
G.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:40 pm

tlecam wrote:
Because the impetus for a lot of these incidents about mask wearing is, "My rights!" or wild, bizarre views about freedom of speech (which largely doesn't apply to private companies).

I agree, it's an entitlement thing. People feel their individual desires trump (ahem!) the collective desires of other passengers and the right of the airlines to maintain a controlled, safe environment. If you feel such controls are excessive, rent a private aircraft and you can do whatever you want. Each and every flight is not an opportunity to engage in a discussion about one's rights. If you feel you need to make a point, feel free to picket outside the airport.
 
TheZ
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:41 pm

There is some kind of mass psychosis going around about masks and COVID precautions in general for a certain segment of the population. People are being encouraged to be as difficult as possible about it, up to and including being violent. It's a scary time for public safety in general, air travel is just one of many places it rears its ugly head. But agreed these people need to be banned for life from flying.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:41 pm

757SanCam wrote:
When you walk into an airport, rules are constantly displayed/announced as you proceed to your gate. These are pretty simple rules which over 99% of passengers comply. With the FAA clamping down with stiffer fines and individual airlines banning passengers for breaking the rules, it's time for the FAA to step up and put offenders on a national do not fly list. This must be publicized in every form of media including social. Most people don't watch nor read traditional news sources nor do they pay attention at airports. Those of us that fly regularly have seen no masks at airport and improperly worn masks on planes, passenger having had one too many drinks before boarding, the lists go on.

The threat of not being able to fly anywhere in US, might register with some of these idiots, but if not, enjoy the real long drive to wherever you were going to fly to!

While becoming more common, this is nothing new.
As an airport cop told a customer he was handcuffing that had tried to come across the counter at me, a couple of decades ago, after his credit card was denied, "The Airport is not Burger King, you do not get it "Your Way"."
 
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kanban
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:43 pm

Several North African and Sub-saharan countries need income and jobs. Why not sponsor some prisons there and export all these idiots. They can earn their way home by stacking sand for 12 months.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:48 pm

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2021/12 ... attendant/ says:

The passenger, identified as 35-year-old Ariel Pennington of Washington, D.C., was booked into the Oklahoma City Jail on complaints of disorderly conduct and public drunkenness. The investigation is ongoing, and he could potentially face federal charges, however.


It also has an Instagram video of the guy getting handcuffed.

The IG post says:

professorjamielynn2.0
So… this just happened on our plane from D.C. to LAX two seats in front of me. He was yelling about BLM and being enslaved by the white man. We had to emergency land in Oklahoma so the federal police could come take him off. Our five hour flights turned into 8 hours. ⁣

So, left wing social justice instead of right wing individual rights is the issue this time, with alcohol as the accelerating factor.

People suck.
 
TripleA
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:47 pm

The amount of entitled arrogant a**holes in the US now is crazy. And anyone who works in any job that deals with the public is unfortunately having to deal with them all the time these days. I was just watching a couple of YouTube videos the other night of two incidents that happened at restaurants recently. The first was that the customer's drink was too hot or whatever, so she got mad and came back and threw it in the employee's face. The second was a customer got mad that the credit card reader took too long to read her card so she punched the manager in the face. While I'm sure the masks aren't helping in some cases, the bottom line is that there is a portion of our population (regardless of political views as people on both "sides" are acting this way) that truly believe they can do whatever they want without consequence and treat others like total garbage and that it's totally fine. It's pathetic and I feel so bad for the poor employees who aren't doing anything wrong and get stuck dealing with them.
 
sgbroimp
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:51 pm

Try him tomorrow, lock him up Sunday, and throw away the key Monday
 
Vicenza
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:08 pm

TheSonntag wrote:

Just google "Ryanair" and unruly passenger and you will find lots of them. It happens less frequent in Europe, but one reason is that usually, Europeans only tend to fly longer routes for leisure in the holiday season, so usually you have more business travel as passengers.


Absolute nonsense, as is your assertion that business travelers are somehow 'superior'
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:10 pm

Vicenza wrote:
TheSonntag wrote:

Just google "Ryanair" and unruly passenger and you will find lots of them. It happens less frequent in Europe, but one reason is that usually, Europeans only tend to fly longer routes for leisure in the holiday season, so usually you have more business travel as passengers.


Absolute nonsense, as is your assertion that business travelers are somehow 'superior'


Business travelers absolutely behave better because we (1) know what to expect, (2) understand that there is some level of indignity associated with air travel and (3) really need or want to get where we're going.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:06 pm

TripleA wrote:
The amount of entitled arrogant a**holes in the US now is crazy. And anyone who works in any job that deals with the public is unfortunately having to deal with them all the time these days. I was just watching a couple of YouTube videos the other night of two incidents that happened at restaurants recently. The first was that the customer's drink was too hot or whatever, so she got mad and came back and threw it in the employee's face. The second was a customer got mad that the credit card reader took too long to read her card so she punched the manager in the face. While I'm sure the masks aren't helping in some cases, the bottom line is that there is a portion of our population (regardless of political views as people on both "sides" are acting this way) that truly believe they can do whatever they want without consequence and treat others like total garbage and that it's totally fine. It's pathetic and I feel so bad for the poor employees who aren't doing anything wrong and get stuck dealing with them.

Thing is, with all the mega corporations and social media these days, the former prefer to hush the issue rather than being (unfairly) blasted on the latter.
What those companies need to do is throw their mega corp weight behind the perps and have them prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law; that will calm a lot of them real quick.
 
floridaflyboy
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:25 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Vicenza wrote:
TheSonntag wrote:

Just google "Ryanair" and unruly passenger and you will find lots of them. It happens less frequent in Europe, but one reason is that usually, Europeans only tend to fly longer routes for leisure in the holiday season, so usually you have more business travel as passengers.


Absolute nonsense, as is your assertion that business travelers are somehow 'superior'


Business travelers absolutely behave better because we (1) know what to expect, (2) understand that there is some level of indignity associated with air travel and (3) really need or want to get where we're going.


While I agree on a very general level that business travelers behave better, some of the absolutely worst behaved passengers I ever had as a FA were business travelers, including the only one we ever had to call the authorities to remove. It's just a completely different type of entitlement among that group. However, you are absolutely correct that business travelers at least understand the process, know what to expect, and generally follow the rules even if they put up a bit of a fit first.

The gentleman we had to have removed (a NW Platinum) decided it was a good idea to get into it with the Captain over being asked to move seats due to weight and balance (all passengers forward of a certain row had to move back to accommodate weight and balance). He somehow thought his elite status one-upped the laws of physics. Unusual situation.
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:34 pm

tlecam wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Not to mention exhibit A of the lack of civics education over the last 50 years in the US.


Maybe at your school? Seriously, what does this have to do with an unruly passenger assaulting others?!


Because the impetus for a lot of these incidents about mask wearing is, "My rights!" or wild, bizarre views about freedom of speech (which largely doesn't apply to private companies).


I'll admit, it's quite possible, probable even, that this was over masks, but that's not what the linked article states. Regardless, civics class doesn't cover masks or how to act in public. That's *parenting*, which is non-existent for many kids these days unfortunately. People's behavior patterns are learned long before they get to civics class.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:12 pm

Revelation wrote:
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2021/12/10/passenger-detained-during-after-assaulting-an-air-marshal-and-flight-attendant/ says:

The passenger, identified as 35-year-old Ariel Pennington of Washington, D.C., was booked into the Oklahoma City Jail on complaints of disorderly conduct and public drunkenness. The investigation is ongoing, and he could potentially face federal charges, however.


It also has an Instagram video of the guy getting handcuffed.

The IG post says:

professorjamielynn2.0
So… this just happened on our plane from D.C. to LAX two seats in front of me. He was yelling about BLM and being enslaved by the white man. We had to emergency land in Oklahoma so the federal police could come take him off. Our five hour flights turned into 8 hours. ⁣

So, left wing social justice instead of right wing individual rights is the issue this time, with alcohol as the accelerating factor.

People suck.


Thankfully he wasn't very combative when the cuffs came out. Sometimes, people will flip out when it comes to being handcuffed. Looks like a passenger also assisted the Air Marshal. I wonder if that passenger was off duty law enforcement?

I am so sick of people thinking it's okay to put hands on flight crews. I do believe all of these incidents of assaulting a crew member should be a federal offense that gets charged to the fullest. These prosecutors need to stop with the lowering of charges in these situations.

Someone did mention mental health in many of these instances. No doubt! A sane person doesn't do things like this. Add some alcohol into the mix, and it just gets worse.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:56 pm

Jeez, passengers on airlines these days are becoming less civil than my old middle school PE locker rooms, and that's REALLY saying something.

Anyways, straying away from my old middle school, how come fines, imprisonment, no fly list, and banning can't stop these people? Is it that we have to equip all FAs with tasers or something to get these #$#$$%# to stop!? Some people might say "well 99% of pax are just fine and arent problematic" that still doesn't explain how there are SOOOOOO Many of these incidents! Take a look at this, the "Similar topics" section of this exact thread. There are 4 EXACT incidents like this, 3 of which were in the US. That alone should say something. This list also doesn't count the multitude of other incidents, like that infamous kid who tried to blow a window out on AA.
 
AndoAv8R
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:19 pm

After googling for more information I found an article that mentions this guy has a nice rap sheet with DUI/DWI/assault. No getting out of this for him
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:46 pm

I was on a flight just a couple of weeks ago where there was some drunk guy getting in people's faces and arguing with everyone he came across. Eventually they confiscated his bottle of vodka and managed to get him to sit down, but he was very aggressive and roamed around the plane sitting next to (and starting fights) with several different people. The police were waiting for him when we landed, but it could have been a lot worse. Luckily all of this happened towards the end of the flight. As we landed he jumped up again and started walking around seconds before touchdown. I did find it kind of scary because if something kicks off, where do you go? The cabin crew are trained in many things but they're not exactly equipped to take on the job of bouncers. I wonder if each crew should have at least one guy that knows martial arts.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:04 am

Cockpit has a crash ax. :white:
 
TW870
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:33 pm

Former flight attendant here wishing the very best to all the crew members on the forum. Very disturbing to hear about these things, and you have my full respect for doing your jobs professionally and reliably in these insane times.

While I understand posts above that talk about flying being stressful, it is important to note that this particular flight is among the least stressful out there. DCA is extremely easy to get through, the TSA checkpoint for the Delta pier rarely has long lines, and this flight is a premium 757 with Delta One and has IFE for folks in the back. I think it is the other cultural factors and not flying itself that are causing the abuse.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:45 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
Jeez, passengers on airlines these days are becoming less civil than my old middle school PE locker rooms, and that's REALLY saying something.

Anyways, straying away from my old middle school, how come fines, imprisonment, no fly list, and banning can't stop these people? Is it that we have to equip all FAs with tasers or something to get these #$#$$%# to stop!? Some people might say "well 99% of pax are just fine and arent problematic" that still doesn't explain how there are SOOOOOO Many of these incidents! Take a look at this, the "Similar topics" section of this exact thread. There are 4 EXACT incidents like this, 3 of which were in the US. That alone should say something. This list also doesn't count the multitude of other incidents, like that infamous kid who tried to blow a window out on AA.

The common thread is alcohol. The main solution would be airlines not serving alcohol on the planes and airport restaurants also not serving alcohol. Yet of course that would change the economics, so it probably won't happen. However I do wonder if the cost of diversions will be such that they do strongly consider it. As noted, the pax that cause the problems aren't likely to have the money to pay for the diversions, and all the legal activities involved in suing for expenses aren't cheap.

They can't be making that much profit on booze, can they? It costs a lot to upload it to the aircraft, carry it to altitude, etc. The problems aren't worth the profit, I would think. Just boost the price of the tickets a few bucks and it's covered. We aren't so addicted to alcohol that we can't go a few hours without a drink, right? It's kind of sad that we look at a transportation activity as an opportunity for a piss-up, isn't it?
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:33 pm

Saw video - he was at least 4 inches taller than the Air Marshall who showed a lot of restraint. Also saw interviews with some passengers - one of which sounded like she thought the aggressor was within his rights to challenge the FA. We don't know the details but certainly doesn't excuse his behavior or challenging a FA and a Federal officer.
 
travelsonic
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:41 pm

Revelation wrote:
The main solution would be airlines not serving alcohol on the planes and airport restaurants also not serving alcohol.


I don't know though if that is the only solution, and wonder if it is necessary to jump straight to doing that - going from 0 to 100 so to speak - instead of starting with things like tying up loose ends on people serving themselves with booze they brought on board, being allowed to board when intoxicated (if there are loose ends that need tightening), people being served alcohol when intoxicated (which I wouldn't doubt happens sometimes) (f there are loose ends that need tightening), etc. I feel like those issues being examined first, while no panacea, would definitely go a long way without jumping the gun and affecting not just the airlines and businesses, but the passengers who can drink responsibly.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:32 pm

The excuses everybody is coming up with for these incidents are the problem. Alcohol, masks, lack of education, not getting enough hugs or pandemics are all irrelevent. If you don't accept responsibilty for your own actions and choices, you have no right to call yourself a free person. That's the price of freedom. It can't be any other way.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:05 pm

travelsonic wrote:
I don't know though if that is the only solution, and wonder if it is necessary to jump straight to doing that - going from 0 to 100 so to speak - instead of starting with things like tying up loose ends on people serving themselves with booze they brought on board, being allowed to board when intoxicated (if there are loose ends that need tightening), people being served alcohol when intoxicated (which I wouldn't doubt happens sometimes) (f there are loose ends that need tightening), etc. I feel like those issues being examined first, while no panacea, would definitely go a long way without jumping the gun and affecting not just the airlines and businesses, but the passengers who can drink responsibly.

The thing is, airline employees should not be the booze patrol. It shouldn't be left to them to decide who is just a bit buzzed and still can be served since they have a strong tolerance vs someone who is not very tolerant and will be very drunk after the next drink. Some airline employees are good judges, some are not, and some just don't care. I can say that because I know I've been overserved at least once. I'm not blaming anyone but myself, but it still happened.

The easiest limit to enforce is zero alcohol. I doubt we'll ever see that since it works against commercial interests, but that doesn't change this simple fact.

Nomadd wrote:
The excuses everybody is coming up with for these incidents are the problem. Alcohol, masks, lack of education, not getting enough hugs or pandemics are all irrelevent. If you don't accept responsibilty for your own actions and choices, you have no right to call yourself a free person. That's the price of freedom. It can't be any other way.

Great, yet none of this solves the problem that DL just had, unless you can come up with a test that screens out irresponsible passengers.

I hope someone doesn't suggest we come up with a social credit scoring system.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:38 pm

Revelation wrote:
The thing is, airline employees should not be the booze patrol. It shouldn't be left to them to decide who is just a bit buzzed and still can be served since they have a strong tolerance vs someone who is not very tolerant and will be very drunk after the next drink. Some airline employees are good judges, some are not, and some just don't care.


Maybe not, but FAs have been tagged with the role of Booze Police for nearly six decades. Gate agents are responsible for denying boarding to people who are drunk. (Yes, I've seen people drunk and slurring their speech continue to be served on U.S. flights.) Going dry on-board doesn't solve the problem of drunks boarding the plane.

It's all in 14 CFR 121.575 and predecessor rules.
 
kalvado
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:47 pm

Revelation wrote:
Nomadd wrote:
The excuses everybody is coming up with for these incidents are the problem. Alcohol, masks, lack of education, not getting enough hugs or pandemics are all irrelevent. If you don't accept responsibilty for your own actions and choices, you have no right to call yourself a free person. That's the price of freedom. It can't be any other way.

Great, yet none of this solves the problem that DL just had, unless you can come up with a test that screens out irresponsible passengers.

I hope someone doesn't suggest we come up with a social credit scoring system.

The idea is clearly dear to the heart of many people here.
There is already criminal record; driving license is another easy flag; now add "can you fly"? as part of job questionnaire. Voila, we're half way there.
While criminal record requests are getting difficult, license and especially flight questions can be justified as being part of job qualification....
 
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Revelation
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Re: Delta plane diverted mid-flight in latest unruly passenger incident

Sat Dec 11, 2021 7:14 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Maybe not, but FAs have been tagged with the role of Booze Police for nearly six decades. Gate agents are responsible for denying boarding to people who are drunk. (Yes, I've seen people drunk and slurring their speech continue to be served on U.S. flights.) Going dry on-board doesn't solve the problem of drunks boarding the plane.

It's all in 14 CFR 121.575 and predecessor rules.

Right, yet not selling alcohol at restaurants does fix the problem of pax getting (more) drunk at restaurants and not serving passengers on board does fix the problem of pax getting (more) drunk on airplanes. TSA could also be taught/equipped to screen for BAC if that was the main concern, but in my experience people arrive mostly sober and then start to load up at the bars and restaurants in the airport.

kalvado wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Great, yet none of this solves the problem that DL just had, unless you can come up with a test that screens out irresponsible passengers.

I hope someone doesn't suggest we come up with a social credit scoring system.

The idea is clearly dear to the heart of many people here.
There is already criminal record; driving license is another easy flag; now add "can you fly"? as part of job questionnaire. Voila, we're half way there.
While criminal record requests are getting difficult, license and especially flight questions can be justified as being part of job qualification....

It seems tenuous to me to suggest people will avoid such behavior due to concerns about future employability.

This guy was ranting about slavery, doubt telling him "you'll never get hired by IBM" would make him snap out of it.

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