STL announcing nonstop legacy carrier flight to Germany (LH) 12/14

Jshank83 · Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:26 pm

STL announcing a nonstop flight on a legacy carrier to Germany tomorrow. Its LH.

Huge win.

https://twitter.com/ChiefTimFitch/statu ... 55393?s=20

cityshuttle · Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:43 pm

Sure about it being LH ?

ANA787 · Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:45 pm

It could be Condor, LH Eurowings or LH mainline.

Didn't STL at one time have service to Iceland?

Clipper73 · Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:51 pm

Congrats to St. Louis on this new flight amazing news and long overdue.

phugoid1982 · Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:51 pm

I'll refrain from judgment if it's Lufthansa but can someone explain to me what does St. Louis (post TWA connectivity) have to offer economically apart from Wash U that could justify decent yields if it's capturing biotech traffic? It's not exactly the booming Charlotte metro area. The last time I flew through there was from Champaign to STL on a jetstream probably 20 years ago.

ZRH1978WW · Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:52 pm

If this is driven by corporate travel, I reckon it will Munich. I would imagine Siemens is interested in a direct flight for their industrial software development center in Maryland Heights.

Jshank83 · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:01 pm

phugoid1982 wrote:
I'll refrain from judgment if it's Lufthansa but can someone explain to me what does St. Louis (post TWA connectivity) have to offer economically apart from Wash U that could justify decent yields if it's capturing biotech traffic? It's not exactly the booming Charlotte metro area. The last time I flew through there was from Champaign to STL on a jetstream probably 20 years ago.

I’d guess Bayer is coughing up a lot of money for it. Sigma, AB, Centene, others also.

BWIAirport · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:02 pm

Wonder how strict of a term "legacy carrier" is here. LH seems to fit that description, but STL seems to be more in line with DE's route profile. Discover, however, also has ANC, TPA, LAS, SLC, and RSW on it's future US route map so I could see STL fitting in along those. I feel extremely comfortable saying that the tweet is not referring to a US legacy carrier.

ZRH1978WW · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:03 pm

phugoid1982 wrote:
I'll refrain from judgment if it's Lufthansa but can someone explain to me what does St. Louis (post TWA connectivity) have to offer economically apart from Wash U that could justify decent yields if it's capturing biotech traffic? It's not exactly the booming Charlotte metro area. The last time I flew through there was from Champaign to STL on a jetstream probably 20 years ago.

Monsanto, now Bayer, is based out of Creve Coeur and I would imagine they would be interested in a direct flight from Frankfurt rather than connecting via Chicago with United.
Siemens has a industrial software development center in Maryland Heights. They would probably be interested in a direct flight from either Munich or Frankfurt.

by738 · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:10 pm

BA should have jumped on it ex UK. Perhaps they have looked at it and couldn't make it work…
Legacy in my eyes is LH

WNflyer1523 · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:16 pm

Congratulations to STL! Personally, I don't think it would be Lufthansa, that seems more like a route someone like Condor would do

Jshank83 · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:24 pm

I am 99% sure its LH. With 1% being UA flies it for now since they have 787-8s. But they have been targeting LH heavily for the last couple years. Bayer having their NA headquarters here now helped bring their money to the table I am sure.

No one is going to say legacy and mean Condor or Eurowings.

BA744PHX · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:37 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
I am 99% sure its LH. With 1% being UA flies it for now since they have 787-8s. But they have been targeting LH heavily for the last couple years. Bayer having their NA headquarters here now helped bring their money to the table I am sure.

No one is going to say legacy and mean Condor or Eurowings.

Your on the assumption the individual who posted this on twitter knows what a legacy carrier is.

Also UA will never fly this route, it would be nice if its LH, but I'm also leaning towards Condor or Eurowings

PhilMcCrackin · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:39 pm

Lufthansa doesn't make much sense considering there are bigger and better dots to connect in the US that don't have LH service and they don't have a small enough aircraft with the range to open a marginal destination like STL.

My guess is DL or Condor.

TWA302 · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:40 pm

He has deleted the tweet now. Must have got an earful from someone.

stl07 · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:40 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
I am 99% sure its LH. With 1% being UA flies it for now since they have 787-8s. But they have been targeting LH heavily for the last couple years. Bayer having their NA headquarters here now helped bring their money to the table I am sure.

No one is going to say legacy and mean Condor or Eurowings.

Your on the assumption the individual who posted this on twitter knows what a legacy carrier is.

Also UA will never fly this route, it would be nice if its LH, but I'm also leaning towards Condor or Eurowings

Who would have thought UA would be on Stl-myr until they announced it this year

collegeQR · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:41 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
Lufthansa doesn't make much sense considering there are bigger and better dots to connect in the US that don't have LH service and they don't have a small enough aircraft with the range to open a marginal destination like STL.

My guess is DL or Condor.

Delta. To Germany from a city without transatlantic service?

stl07 · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:42 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
Lufthansa doesn't make much sense considering there are bigger and better dots to connect in the US that don't have LH service and they don't have a small enough aircraft with the range to open a marginal destination like STL.

My guess is DL or Condor.

Even if it’s condor which it probably isn’t since they are not legacy it’s impressive for lambert

DeltaRules · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:43 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
Lufthansa doesn't make much sense considering there are bigger and better dots to connect in the US that don't have LH service and they don't have a small enough aircraft with the range to open a marginal destination like STL.

This could be said for many of the point-to-point TATL flights that popped up prior to COVID, though, especially from DL and BA. Who ever saw PIT, IND, BNA, CHS, MSY, et al gaining nonstops to Europe?

Money (dangled by local governments and companies) talks.

Jshank83 · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:43 pm

Here is the tweet that was deleted. I assume that is not how they wanted it announced.
_________________________
Who's ready for some good news? Non-stop service on a legacy carrier from STL to Germany coming soon...all I can say at this time. Formal announcement tomorrow. As a ex officio member of the Port Authority, I'm proud of the work they've done to support this project

davidjohnson6 · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:45 pm

Condor and EW Discover as brands seem to be positioned for leisure travellers who are resident in Germany. If there really is to be a FRA-STL route, supported by corporate cash, it would be a little strange to use a brand other than LH mainline

MIflyer12 · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:49 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
This could be said for many of the point-to-point TATL flights that popped up prior to COVID, though, especially from DL and BA. Who ever saw PIT, IND, BNA, CHS, MSY, et al gaining nonstops to Europe?

London is - overwhelmingly - the most popular European destination for Americans. FRA isn't even close.

Germans visiting St Louis are going to wonder why they bothered before they end the 2nd day of their visit.

PhilMcCrackin · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:51 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
PhilMcCrackin wrote:
Lufthansa doesn't make much sense considering there are bigger and better dots to connect in the US that don't have LH service and they don't have a small enough aircraft with the range to open a marginal destination like STL.

This could be said for many of the point-to-point TATL flights that popped up prior to COVID, though, especially from DL and BA. Who ever saw PIT, IND, BNA, CHS, MSY, et al gaining nonstops to Europe?

Money (dangled by local governments and companies) talks.

Right, I could believe BA because that's their MO as of late and they have the perfect aircraft for it in the 787-8, but not LH. My money is on DL given the PIT and IND routes they started.

OzarkD9S · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:52 pm

ANA787 wrote:

Didn't STL at one time have service to Iceland?

Yes, on WOW.

Now Bayer is hq'd near Cologne and close enough to DUS. The tweet said "Germany". Is DUS/CGN a possibility vs FRA/MUC? One would imagine it would be FRA as every connecting passenger would count on a STL-Europe flight, then pop on the train from FRA to Leverkusen/Cologne.

DeltaRules · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:53 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
This could be said for many of the point-to-point TATL flights that popped up prior to COVID, though, especially from DL and BA. Who ever saw PIT, IND, BNA, CHS, MSY, et al gaining nonstops to Europe?

London is - overwhelmingly - the most popular European destination for Americans. FRA isn't even close.

Germans visiting St Louis are going to wonder why they bothered before they end the 2nd day of their visit.

Onward connections would be possible at FRA, though.

SANFan · Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:54 pm

What's interesting to me is that LH has not yet restored all their pre-covid US routes (e.g., SAN, AUS) yet they are supposedly announcing a brand new US route?

Will be interesting to see what this turns out to be.

bb

cityshuttle · Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:01 pm

Just speculation - but since LH‘s smallest WB would be A 333, could we see OS with B 767 operate this route (maybe even to DUS) on behalf on LH ?

On the other hand, depending on frequency e.g. 3/7 or 4/7, maybe it is DE and they rotate this route along with their leisure routes ex DUS on B 757 or B 767.

gatibosgru · Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:02 pm

Probably on an A333?

TWFlyGuy · Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:15 pm

I'd be surprised if Bayer is much of a factor. They didn't add flights from KC when their HQ was there. They didn't add service to RDU when it was their HQ.

floridaflyboy · Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:28 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
PhilMcCrackin wrote:
Lufthansa doesn't make much sense considering there are bigger and better dots to connect in the US that don't have LH service and they don't have a small enough aircraft with the range to open a marginal destination like STL.

This could be said for many of the point-to-point TATL flights that popped up prior to COVID, though, especially from DL and BA. Who ever saw PIT, IND, BNA, CHS, MSY, et al gaining nonstops to Europe?

Money (dangled by local governments and companies) talks.

Right, I could believe BA because that's their MO as of late and they have the perfect aircraft for it in the 787-8, but not LH. My money is on DL given the PIT and IND routes they started.

There's essentially zero chance of Delta serving Germany from St. Louis. They don't even serve FRA from all their hubs, let alone point-to-point. Plus, those PIT and IND routes you mention are gone. DL has cut most of their international point-to-point.

BHMNONREV · Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:36 pm

If this actually comes to pass color me shocked, as I long figured STL would never see the light of TA flights ever again. This would most certainly come down to business/airport subsidies to make this come about, but definitely long overdue and welcome!

I would see no reason why it would not be LH due to connectivity beyond FRA, although with the A333 being the smallest in their fleet I would not see more than 3-4 days per week. And assuming this will be primarily STL based POS?

PhilMcCrackin · Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:51 pm

floridaflyboy wrote:
PhilMcCrackin wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:

This could be said for many of the point-to-point TATL flights that popped up prior to COVID, though, especially from DL and BA. Who ever saw PIT, IND, BNA, CHS, MSY, et al gaining nonstops to Europe?

Money (dangled by local governments and companies) talks.

Right, I could believe BA because that's their MO as of late and they have the perfect aircraft for it in the 787-8, but not LH. My money is on DL given the PIT and IND routes they started.

There's essentially zero chance of Delta serving Germany from St. Louis. They don't even serve FRA from all their hubs, let alone point-to-point. Plus, those PIT and IND routes you mention are gone. DL has cut most of their international point-to-point.

It makes more sense than Lufthansa does. LH doesn't fly to marginal US destinations and there are much better US destinations available that don't have LH service.

inlikepitt · Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:53 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
I'd be surprised if Bayer is much of a factor. They didn't add flights from KC when their HQ was there. They didn't add service to RDU when it was their HQ.

Bayer Corp. never had their headquarters in KC or Raleigh. US operations were based in Pittsburgh until the Company realigned their business operations and moved US ops to New Jersey. There was always a fair amount of PIT-Frankfurt traffic back in the day when US Airways operated daily service.

NolaMD88fan · Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:01 pm

Congrats to STL on gaining TATL service. My guess would be LH as well given the huge Bayer campus out in St. Louis County. Bayer could easily underwrite this flight.

Noshow · Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:02 pm

It must be some company travel request for sure. Siemens sounds like a good bet. This might be LH. Mind you Boeing intends to sell plenty of high value F/A-18 to Germany as well. Condor might be possible too. They are fast thinking and flexible and have a history of making exotic US destinations work.

dcaproducer · Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:02 pm

Anyone in STL media here? Has STL sent out a press invite for an announcement tomorrow? I’m sure the tweet was a big oops.
This will be interesting, if announced.

STLflyer · Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:06 pm

ANA787 wrote:
Didn't STL at one time have service to Iceland?

Yeah, on WOW. I was on the inaugural flight.

lesfalls · Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:45 pm

STLflyer wrote:
ANA787 wrote:
Didn't STL at one time have service to Iceland?

Yeah, on WOW. I was on the inaugural flight.

How full was it and any EU originating traffic?

floridaflyboy · Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:51 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
floridaflyboy wrote:
PhilMcCrackin wrote:

Right, I could believe BA because that's their MO as of late and they have the perfect aircraft for it in the 787-8, but not LH. My money is on DL given the PIT and IND routes they started.

There's essentially zero chance of Delta serving Germany from St. Louis. They don't even serve FRA from all their hubs, let alone point-to-point. Plus, those PIT and IND routes you mention are gone. DL has cut most of their international point-to-point.

It makes more sense than Lufthansa does. LH doesn't fly to marginal US destinations and there are much better US destinations available that don't have LH service.

No, no it doesn't. Again, Delta does not fly from Germany to all of its hubs even, let alone point-to-point flying. LH on the other hand does serve cities in the US that are not partner hubs.

STLflyer · Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:01 pm

lesfalls wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
ANA787 wrote:
Didn't STL at one time have service to Iceland?

Yeah, on WOW. I was on the inaugural flight.

How full was it and any EU originating traffic?

The flight out was pretty full. The flight back was about half empty (but this was only about 3 or 4 days later), and the guy sitting across the aisle from me was actually from somewhere in Europe. Denmark maybe? Said he was headed to STL for business.

TWA302 · Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:05 pm

From our CBS affiliate. I love how they just grab a 748 and slam it in there. lol

https://www.kmov.com/non-stop-flights-to-germany-to-lift-off-from-lambert-airport/article_5b2cb058-5c5c-11ec-93b8-9b2583938e61.html?utm_source=KMOV%2520News&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=Breaking%2520News&fbclid=IwAR3xq5XettBfg0iiJpeb7L4CYjd_src-ztzOpnq2vQsKGHlKoyMI7CCq8IA

airbazar · Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:19 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
I am 99% sure its LH. With 1% being UA flies it for now since they have 787-8s. But they have been targeting LH heavily for the last couple years. Bayer having their NA headquarters here now helped bring their money to the table I am sure.

No one is going to say legacy and mean Condor or Eurowings.

Condor is in fact a legacy carrier, founded in 1955, albeit a charter carrier.
Eurowings may not be a legacy carrier but it could be "Lufthansa operated by Eurowings". I've seen far worse misrepresentations in route announcements.

galapagapop · Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:23 pm

Gotta imagine a lot of support for this flight is coming from cargo demand. We've had a bunch of dedicated charters lately from Europe. 3x a week sounds like a low risk way to regularly capture and support that demand. I'm sure there's some subsidy involved, as they've talked about using it for a transatlantic flight. But I have to imagine LH is starting this flight in the midst of a pandemic under the guise that the belly of the a/c will pay it's way with high value cargo for the likes of Siemens/Boeing/Bayer

ABMUC · Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:31 pm

cityshuttle wrote:
Just speculation - but since LH‘s smallest WB would be A 333, could we see OS with B 767 operate this route (maybe even to DUS) on behalf on LH ?

On the other hand, depending on frequency e.g. 3/7 or 4/7, maybe it is DE and they rotate this route along with their leisure routes ex DUS on B 757 or B 767.

This route ist way beyond the range of a 757.

TWFlyGuy · Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:35 pm

inlikepitt wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
I'd be surprised if Bayer is much of a factor. They didn't add flights from KC when their HQ was there. They didn't add service to RDU when it was their HQ.

Bayer Corp. never had their headquarters in KC or Raleigh. US operations were based in Pittsburgh until the Company realigned their business operations and moved US ops to New Jersey. There was always a fair amount of PIT-Frankfurt traffic back in the day when US Airways operated daily service.

Crop Science HQ was in KC then Raleigh. See article below. The acquisition of Monsanto which is mainly around Crop Science drove the move to St Louis.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/busin ... 82957.html

LAX772LR · Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:54 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
Wonder how strict of a term "legacy carrier" is here.

Probably colloquial use by someone with only vague familiarity with what that term actually means; particularly seeing as it has different applications between the USA and Europe.

DeltaRules wrote:
This could be said for many of the point-to-point TATL flights that popped up prior to COVID, though, especially from DL and BA. Who ever saw PIT, IND, BNA, CHS, MSY, et al gaining nonstops to Europe?

Ignorance of history to place MSY, BNA, PIT among the likes of CHS; as all of them had gained/sustained TATL traffic in the past, prior to BA and others' recent expansions.

Particularly MSY, which has had nonstops to most of Europe's largest hubs, and for whom BA in 2017 was a resumption.

GlobalAirways · Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:55 pm

Condor started San Diego first before it went to Lufthansa. If I had to guess I bet it will be twice a week service on a 767.

Cubsrule · Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:05 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
This could be said for many of the point-to-point TATL flights that popped up prior to COVID, though, especially from DL and BA. Who ever saw PIT, IND, BNA, CHS, MSY, et al gaining nonstops to Europe?

Ignorance of history to place MSY, BNA, PIT among the likes of CHS; as all of them had gained/sustained TATL traffic in the past, prior to BA and others' recent expansions.

Particularly MSY, which has had nonstops to most of Europe's largest hubs, and for whom BA in 2017 was a resumption.

Several are also markets that are growing tremendously. That’s not a good description of STL.

PhilMcCrackin · Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:09 pm

floridaflyboy wrote:
PhilMcCrackin wrote:
floridaflyboy wrote:

There's essentially zero chance of Delta serving Germany from St. Louis. They don't even serve FRA from all their hubs, let alone point-to-point. Plus, those PIT and IND routes you mention are gone. DL has cut most of their international point-to-point.

It makes more sense than Lufthansa does. LH doesn't fly to marginal US destinations and there are much better US destinations available that don't have LH service.

No, no it doesn't. Again, Delta does not fly from Germany to all of its hubs even, let alone point-to-point flying. LH on the other hand does serve cities in the US that are not partner hubs.

Phoenix, San Diego, Las Vegas, Portland, Nashville, New Orleans are all more deserving of an international flight on LH mainline than STL is which is why this doesn't make much sense to me. The smallest widebody LH has is the A333 which seems to be a sub-optimal aircraft to start a flight with.

If this really is Lufthansa, my money is on it actually being Eurowings Discover.

Delta28L · Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:39 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
floridaflyboy wrote:
PhilMcCrackin wrote:

It makes more sense than Lufthansa does. LH doesn't fly to marginal US destinations and there are much better US destinations available that don't have LH service.

No, no it doesn't. Again, Delta does not fly from Germany to all of its hubs even, let alone point-to-point flying. LH on the other hand does serve cities in the US that are not partner hubs.

Phoenix, San Diego, Las Vegas, Portland, Nashville, New Orleans are all more deserving of an international flight on LH mainline than STL is which is why this doesn't make much sense to me. The smallest widebody LH has is the A333 which seems to be a sub-optimal aircraft to start a flight with.

If this really is Lufthansa, my money is on it actually being Eurowings Discover.

Those cities have BA serving them. Plus Lufthansa is getting 787s in the near future if Boeing gets their act together

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