Boutique apparently left dozens of people stranded over Thanksgiving Weekend, and they made a scene about.
https://www.wbbjtv.com/2021/11/29/airpo ... m-jackson/

“Dept. of Transportation issues Boutique Air complaint form
December 9, 2021 Kyle Peppers
JACKSON, Tenn. — The U.S. Department of Transportation is asking for public comment from anyone who received unsatisfactory service from Boutique Air, including those who have not received refunds from canceled flights.”
https://www.wbbjtv.com/2021/12/09/dept- ... aint-form/

https://www.wbbjtv.com/2021/11/29/airpo ... m-jackson/

Per Flightaware, Boutique has canceled all the flights for the next several days.

Crew shortages again, now that the Regionals have resumed hiring anyone that can fog a mirror?

That's a new one to me, an airline being asked to leave an airport because they are crap.
Has this happened before?

Metchalus wrote:

That's a new one to me, an airline being asked to leave an airport because they are crap.
Has this happened before?

Yes. There's been some turnover in EAS routes in the last few years.

Poster knope2001 watches that stuff pretty closely.

FlyingElvii wrote:

anyone that can fog a mirror

Love that!

Metchalus wrote:

That's a new one to me, an airline being asked to leave an airport because they are crap.
Has this happened before?

IWD in Michigan did the same with Boutique this past summer and ended up with jet service on Denver Air Connection as a replacement.

BTQ is kinda going down the same route as Great Lakes & SeaPort. Things are coming apart and quickly, definitely not a fun time for anyone there.

SIC (co-pilot) program was just wiped out by the Fargo FAA office.

https://jetcareers.com/forums/threads/boutique-doing-boutique-things.312573/

And they also had another incident the other day...

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2021/11/pilatus-pc-1247-n474ss-incident.html

PC-12s are NOT a cheap airplane to afford and fly. I think Tradewind is the only US operator to actually make it work, but their clientele aren't paying $39 fares but more like $300 - $500 each way.

Ive seen Boutique PC-12's doing what I assume are training flights at Greeley-Weld County Airport (KGXY, approx 50 miles north of Denver Intl. airport) pretty frequently, never understood why there of all places

Also I never could figure out how they could be close to profitable using PC-12's when Great lakes couldnt make it work with old run down B1900D's

AndoAv8R wrote:

Also I never could figure out how they could be close to profitable using PC-12's when Great lakes couldnt make it work with old run down B1900D's

Part 135 vs Part 121, basically. Once the regulations changed (in the aftermath of Colgan 3407) to require both pilots at Part 121 operators to have an ATP, Great Lakes' staffing model was blown away. Lots of pilots without an ATP would build time as a FO at ZK before moving up to other regionals. The pay was crap but at least you could build up your multi-engine turbine hours. They couldn't afford to compete with regionals operating 50- to 76-seat aircraft so ultimately they failed because they had no pilots.

Boutique is operating under Part 135 so they don't need two ATP holders in front.

They flew to MSY for about two months. I’d say about half of their scheduled flights were cxld due to no pilots. Most of the others were very late. An incredibly unreliable operation.

Their on-time rate on STL-MKL is uniquely horrible. 9 of their 13 flights in December so far on that route have been cancelled. And this isn't new, either. It's been consistently shoddy since the route started at the beginning of summer.

I've been wondering for a few months when something would be done. I guess Jackson's finally had enough. I see Air Choice One, Cape Air, or Contour picking it up.

With MKL being so close to MEM, its pretty ridiculous to have EAS anyways.

A far cry from the 1970s days of Southern Airways DC-9s and Martin 404s at Jackson! At both Jacksons (MS and TN), for that matter.

nc3rd wrote:

With MKL being so close to MEM, its pretty ridiculous to have EAS anyways.

They are entitled to it by the deregulation law.
In can be a 2 1/2 hr drive to MEM in traffic. 3 to BNA.

maps4ltd wrote:

Their on-time rate on STL-MKL is uniquely horrible. 9 of their 13 flights in December so far on that route have been cancelled. And this isn't new, either. It's been consistently shoddy since the route started at the beginning of summer.

I've been wondering for a few months when something would be done. I guess Jackson's finally had enough. I see Air Choice One, Cape Air, or Contour picking it up.

Contour is a Unique operation compared to the other EAS bidders (Skywest is pulling back from some EAS they had bid on). They run both the airline and private jet management ops together, creating scales and shared assets that other operators don’t have. A young pilot can come in on the Citation XLS as an FO, then upgrade to the EMB/CRJ, keep moving up to the Sovereign or Global, and eventually make close to mainline airline money, or more. They have more incentive to stay longer.

When they do apply to the major, they have a lot more in the skills bag than pilots coming from many regionals.

Sounds to me like Boutique needs to put the brakes on growth perhaps? Should they be bidding on EAS routes if they can't be reliable in other areas they are already in?

How is the company's financials? Are they profitable?

FlyingElvii wrote:

nc3rd wrote:

With MKL being so close to MEM, its pretty ridiculous to have EAS anyways.

They are entitled to it by the deregulation law.
In can be a 2 1/2 hr drive to MEM in traffic. 3 to BNA.

I guess if 40 is closed it could be a 2 1/2 hour drive to MEM but in normal traffic it’s 1:15 to MEM, 2:15 to BNA. I do both drives a lot.

FlyingElvii wrote:

nc3rd wrote:

With MKL being so close to MEM, its pretty ridiculous to have EAS anyways.

They are entitled to it by the deregulation law.
In can be a 2 1/2 hr drive to MEM in traffic. 3 to BNA.

The Airline Deregulation Act as passed in 1978 called for termination of the EAS subsidy program after ten years, and yet here we are, 43 years later.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STA ... pdf#page=1

Metchalus wrote:

That's a new one to me, an airline being asked to leave an airport because they are crap.
Has this happened before?

I remember reading an article that SIN was fining airlines for being late all the time. I wonder if they truly enforced that policy.

MIflyer12 wrote:

FlyingElvii wrote:

nc3rd wrote:

With MKL being so close to MEM, its pretty ridiculous to have EAS anyways.

They are entitled to it by the deregulation law.
In can be a 2 1/2 hr drive to MEM in traffic. 3 to BNA.

The Airline Deregulation Act as passed in 1978 called for termination of the EAS subsidy program after ten years, and yet here we are, 43 years later.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STA ... pdf#page=1

Ending it would be political suicide. Both sides of the aisle love putting out press releases when an EAS service is renewed or new provider chosen.

in this post pandemic reality, it may actually gain favor as more and more small communities are losing service. It's turning heads. But the program does need a revamping of sorts and this might be the time to do so, bipartisanly. (yeah right),

DakotaFlyer wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

FlyingElvii wrote:

They are entitled to it by the deregulation law.
In can be a 2 1/2 hr drive to MEM in traffic. 3 to BNA.

The Airline Deregulation Act as passed in 1978 called for termination of the EAS subsidy program after ten years, and yet here we are, 43 years later.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STA ... pdf#page=1

Ending it would be political suicide. Both sides of the aisle love putting out press releases when an EAS service is renewed or new provider chosen.

About ten years ago EAS went thru a reform where many cities were taken off the list because they had a carrier serving them at no charge, i.e., Great Lakes. When Great Lakes failed, these cities were left high and dry, Farmington NM is a prime example. EAS was meant to protect cities like this and the reform failed them.

Chuska wrote:

About ten years ago EAS went thru a reform where many cities were taken off the list because they had a carrier serving them at no charge, i.e., Great Lakes. When Great Lakes failed, these cities were left high and dry, Farmington NM is a prime example. EAS was meant to protect cities like this and the reform failed them.

EAS also came into being when the U.S. had a less well-developed high-speed road network and a 55 mph national speed limit. Does Pueblo, Colorado really need subsidized air service with COS maybe 45 minutes away (and DEN is two hours)? Does Prescott, Arizona need subsidized service with PHX about an hour-and-a-half away?

Much of this service sees little use because it's neither cost-effective nor time-effective for passengers. There's not much demand for service at LEB because a bus can get you to the wide array of non-stops available at BOS in about two hours at far lower cost (and MHT is a bit over an hour away).

For those interested:

The Department of Transportation issued an order prohibiting Boutique Air from withdrawing from the marketplace and has further issued an RFP for a replacement carrier beginning in Q1/2022. The order was published in the Federal Register this morning. We'll see if Boutique complies with the DOT's order.

Bring back Air Choice One!!

ScottB wrote:

Chuska wrote:

About ten years ago EAS went thru a reform where many cities were taken off the list because they had a carrier serving them at no charge, i.e., Great Lakes. When Great Lakes failed, these cities were left high and dry, Farmington NM is a prime example. EAS was meant to protect cities like this and the reform failed them.

EAS also came into being when the U.S. had a less well-developed high-speed road network and a 55 mph national speed limit. Does Pueblo, Colorado really need subsidized air service with COS maybe 45 minutes away (and DEN is two hours)? Does Prescott, Arizona need subsidized service with PHX about an hour-and-a-half away?

Much of this service sees little use because it's neither cost-effective nor time-effective for passengers. There's not much demand for service at LEB because a bus can get you to the wide array of non-stops available at BOS in about two hours at far lower cost (and MHT is a bit over an hour away).

Agreed. There are cities like PUB that really don't need EAS, especially now that WN is at COS with a good size operation. A shame that there are other cities (without interstate highways) that do need EAS and don't get it.

Chuska wrote:

ScottB wrote:

Chuska wrote:

About ten years ago EAS went thru a reform where many cities were taken off the list because they had a carrier serving them at no charge, i.e., Great Lakes. When Great Lakes failed, these cities were left high and dry, Farmington NM is a prime example. EAS was meant to protect cities like this and the reform failed them.

EAS also came into being when the U.S. had a less well-developed high-speed road network and a 55 mph national speed limit. Does Pueblo, Colorado really need subsidized air service with COS maybe 45 minutes away (and DEN is two hours)? Does Prescott, Arizona need subsidized service with PHX about an hour-and-a-half away?

Much of this service sees little use because it's neither cost-effective nor time-effective for passengers. There's not much demand for service at LEB because a bus can get you to the wide array of non-stops available at BOS in about two hours at far lower cost (and MHT is a bit over an hour away).

Agreed. There are cities like PUB that really don't need EAS, especially now that WN is at COS with a good size operation. A shame that there are other cities (without interstate highways) that do need EAS and don't get it.

Being connected to the national air network for small cities really is an economic "Big Deal". Just ask those small cities that have lost service about this. That said, the service has to be usable to be successful.

Legacy Branded service draws better than an unknown brand does.
Farther out "Top Ten" hub destinations draw better than close in hubs, especially ones that are subject to frequent delays (ORD, Etc.) Right now, Den has a delay program for Tier One close-in cities, due to the weather and winds (gusting to almost 50MPH right now), with delays pushing 2-3.5 hrs. If you look at Flightaware, it is the close in cities taking the bulk of hits with UA xcling the regionals (66 XCLS so far), rather than taking the numbers on mainline.

Just looking at the last 24 hours on Flightaware, on a Tuesday after 12pm, and a bad weather Wed., PUB saw:
3 Lear's, one from Monterey, one to Chicago Dupage, and another from Centennial continuing to Raliegh/Roxbury.
5 Citations to/from Camarillo, San Diego/Palomar, Knoxville, Farmingtom and Madison
An Epic to Cleveland Lakefront, and a Gulfstream to Scottsdale.
And a TBM from Camarillo..

These are ones that don't have the tails blocked on the following services, there could be more.

Assuming 3-4 per flight, that is 30-40 premium pax that would be flying a better, more dependable service than Denver, which can be frequently delayed.

If that EAS flight went to DFW or PHX, or ORD, instead of Den, how many of these full-fare premium pax would have chosen it, instead?

I love flying BTQ, and I have been VERY lucky to not have any cancellations or mechanical delays when I have flown them in the past. It know a lot of people there, but they are not doing great. I expect them to loose a lot more cities, Greenville has recommended Contour, so that’s another city gone.

DakotaFlyer wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

FlyingElvii wrote:

They are entitled to it by the deregulation law.
In can be a 2 1/2 hr drive to MEM in traffic. 3 to BNA.

The Airline Deregulation Act as passed in 1978 called for termination of the EAS subsidy program after ten years, and yet here we are, 43 years later.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STA ... pdf#page=1

Ending it would be political suicide. Both sides of the aisle love putting out press releases when an EAS service is renewed or new provider chosen.

Im not arguing the the current law or the political consequences. But from a practical standpoint it is against the spirit of the law now days when you can hop on the interstate and be to an international airport in less than 1.5 hours. There are very few places east of the Mississippi that truly would be worthy of EAS. As it stands now EAS often doesnt produce reliable results because it often goes to the low bidder, who has handcuffed financially to the terms of the EAS.

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:

I love flying BTQ, and I have been VERY lucky to not have any cancellations or mechanical delays when I have flown them in the past. It know a lot of people there, but they are not doing great. I expect them to loose a lot more cities, Greenville has recommended Contour, so that’s another city gone.

Contour is already flying Greenville.

They adjusted the schedule starting this week, so that should improve things pretty well.

Speaking of PUB, this is the winds forecast for 1200MST
15-Dec 12:00PM LIFR 280° 60 kt Scattered
10,000
VIS 0.5 miles. Winds gusting to 85 knots. Blowing dust.

FlyingElvii wrote:

Just looking at the last 24 hours on Flightaware, on a Tuesday after 12pm, and a bad weather Wed., PUB saw:
3 Lear's, one from Monterey, one to Chicago Dupage, and another from Centennial continuing to Raliegh/Roxbury.
5 Citations to/from Camarillo, San Diego/Palomar, Knoxville, Farmingtom and Madison
An Epic to Cleveland Lakefront, and a Gulfstream to Scottsdale.
And a TBM from Camarillo..

These are ones that don't have the tails blocked on the following services, there could be more.

Assuming 3-4 per flight, that is 30-40 premium pax that would be flying a better, more dependable service than Denver, which can be frequently delayed.

If that EAS flight went to DFW or PHX, or ORD, instead of Den, how many of these full-fare premium pax would have chosen it, instead?

Very few, I'd wager. If you're ponying up the money to fly private, you want to fly point-to-point and avoid crowds and TSA. That price premium isn't just about avoiding the inconvenience of driving to COS (where you could get non-stops to PHX/ORD/MDW/DAL/DFW). Better EAS would mostly capture passengers who are driving to other airports.

FlyingElvii wrote:

Being connected to the national air network for small cities really is an economic "Big Deal". Just ask those small cities that have lost service about this. That said, the service has to be usable to be successful

Not only does it have to be useful, it also has to be economical. Some businesses will pay several hundred dollars more for tickets to and from small/EAS markets, but many won't. Some will expect employees (particularly those who are salaried) to drive to/from larger airports to save money.

RetiredNWA wrote:

For those interested:

The Department of Transportation issued an order prohibiting Boutique Air from withdrawing from the marketplace and has further issued an RFP for a replacement carrier beginning in Q1/2022. The order was published in the Federal Register this morning. We'll see if Boutique complies with the DOT's order.

link?

FlyingElvii wrote:

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:

I love flying BTQ, and I have been VERY lucky to not have any cancellations or mechanical delays when I have flown them in the past. It know a lot of people there, but they are not doing great. I expect them to loose a lot more cities, Greenville has recommended Contour, so that’s another city gone.

Contour is already flying Greenville.

They adjusted the schedule starting this week, so that should improve things pretty well.

I apologize, I meant Muscle Shoals. Got them mixed up.

ScottB wrote:

FlyingElvii wrote:

Just looking at the last 24 hours on Flightaware, on a Tuesday after 12pm, and a bad weather Wed., PUB saw:
3 Lear's, one from Monterey, one to Chicago Dupage, and another from Centennial continuing to Raliegh/Roxbury.
5 Citations to/from Camarillo, San Diego/Palomar, Knoxville, Farmingtom and Madison
An Epic to Cleveland Lakefront, and a Gulfstream to Scottsdale.
And a TBM from Camarillo..

These are ones that don't have the tails blocked on the following services, there could be more.

Assuming 3-4 per flight, that is 30-40 premium pax that would be flying a better, more dependable service than Denver, which can be frequently delayed.

If that EAS flight went to DFW or PHX, or ORD, instead of Den, how many of these full-fare premium pax would have chosen it, instead?

Very few, I'd wager. If you're ponying up the money to fly private, you want to fly point-to-point and avoid crowds and TSA. That price premium isn't just about avoiding the inconvenience of driving to COS (where you could get non-stops to PHX/ORD/MDW/DAL/DFW). Better EAS would mostly capture passengers who are driving to other airports.

Maybe, but better EAS also sometimes allows cities - even cities that aren't that isolated - to get off subsidy. Look at markets like MHK and COU, which now compete on the open market with jet service to multiple hubs.

Look at PAH, a city with similar geography to MKL but many fewer EAS struggles. Why? OO holds the PAH contract and flies branded jet service to ORD. More O&D + More Reliable Service = Success.

usxguy wrote:

BTQ is kinda going down the same route as Great Lakes & SeaPort. Things are coming apart and quickly, definitely not a fun time for anyone there.
In
SIC (co-pilot) program was just wiped out by the Fargo FAA office.

https://jetcareers.com/forums/threads/boutique-doing-boutique-things.312573/

And they also had another incident the other day...

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2021/11/pilatus-pc-1247-n474ss-incident.html

PC-12s are NOT a cheap airplane to afford and fly. I think Tradewind is the only US operator to actually make it work, but their clientele aren't paying $39 fares but more like $300 - $500 each way.

PC12 works good in Alaska but the fares are higher there too

Metchalus wrote:

That's a new one to me, an airline being asked to leave an airport because they are crap.
Has this happened before?

Good job Ryanair don't operate at that airport then.

I would be very curious to know what the loads are coming out of Pueblo (or any of these EAS markets that have gone from 9-30 seat turboprops to 50 seat RJ's in the last 15 years or so)? Seems just like yesterday they we're having a hard time filling the B1900D's out of there

DOT has a Jan 3 deadline for airlines to put in that they want to pick up service. We should see a list of who put in shortly after.

On Dec 8 DOT told boutique they can’t terminate operations until they pick a new carrier.

On the 10th boutique was like yea.. no we are out.

Here comes UA/OO to ORD to save the day...

They could always institute some bus service to MEM.....

N292UX wrote:

Here comes UA/OO to ORD to save the day...

Nope. The airport is Class IV.

New bids are out.

Bidders

Boutique (odd since they left on their own accord)
Air Charter Express
Cape Air
Air Choice One
Southern
TransportAzumah (Bus service)


Proposals

Boutique - Same as they already had
Pilatus PC-12 aircraft
6x STL
12x ATL

Air Charter Express
9 seat Piper Navajo Chieftains.
6x STL
12x ATL

Cape Air
Tecnam Traveller - same as last bid
18x STL

Air Choice One
Cessna Grand Caravan
6x STL
12x ATL
or
Cessna Grand Caravan/Beechcraft 1900C
6x STL
12x ATL

Southern
C-208
9x BNA
9x MEM
or
C-208
11x ATL
7x STL
or
C-208
18x ATL
or
PC-12 or KA-200
18x ATL
or
PC-12 or KA-200
11x ATL
7x CHI

TransportAzumah
4x a day bus service to MEM

How did a bus company bid for essential AIR service

stl07 wrote:

How did a bus company bid for essential AIR service

Shows you that this is pure vanity and a waste, just like Jonesboro. In other news, Arlington TN is putting a development moratorium in place so they can catch their breath due to sudden influx of developments due to the announced Ford Plant. Hotels mostly. Shows that MEM will be the winner here as Arlington as it almost splits the drive difference.

On the the strength of those bids, I'd say it's Southern's to loose.

Air Choice One got tossed 6 months ago. I doubt they're making a comeback. Their lack of interline partners is a major downside.
Cape Air's offering is disappointing. 18x to STL is not a winner in my book. A mix of destinations seem the way to go if recent awards are anything to go by.
Air Charter Express is unproven. I can't see them being recommended.
As for that proposal from a bus company, I doubt it'll be flying - pun intended

BangersAndMash wrote:

On the the strength of those bids, I'd say it's Southern's to loose.

Air Choice One got tossed 6 months ago. I doubt they're making a comeback. Their lack of interline partners is a major downside.
Cape Air's offering is disappointing. 18x to STL is not a winner in my book. A mix of destinations seem the way to go if recent awards are anything to go by.
Air Charter Express is unproven. I can't see them being recommended.
As for that proposal from a bus company, I doubt it'll be flying - pun intended

It's just not a location that's well suited for Cape to offer anything other than STL. ORD is over 400 miles and is the closest AA, B6 or UA hub. I doubt they would want to open ATL because they have no connection to DL.

BangersAndMash wrote:

On the the strength of those bids, I'd say it's Southern's to loose.

Air Choice One got tossed 6 months ago. I doubt they're making a comeback. Their lack of interline partners is a major downside.
Cape Air's offering is disappointing. 18x to STL is not a winner in my book. A mix of destinations seem the way to go if recent awards are anything to go by.
Air Charter Express is unproven. I can't see them being recommended.
As for that proposal from a bus company, I doubt it'll be flying - pun intended

I actually don’t hate the bus idea. Would be better if it was to Nashville though, even though it’s an hour further. Memphis doesn’t offer as good a route map for flights. I also thought it was smart they offered to come in short term. Could get up and running quickly to give an airline time to get set up.

Agree that cape only offering STL is odd. Would be easy to add BNA since they already fly there. Must be a situation where they would take it on their terms but aren’t going that hard for it.

I like you would guess southern is the favorite. BUT after boutique going bad it might be a situation where the devil you know (Air Choice) is better than the one you don’t. Also not sure how much Southern trying to challenge and hold the last decision could play in to it.

Jshank83 wrote:

New bids are out.

Bidders

Boutique (odd since they left on their own accord)
Air Charter Express
Cape Air
Air Choice One
Southern
TransportAzumah (Bus service)


Proposals

Boutique - Same as they already had
Pilatus PC-12 aircraft
6x STL
12x ATL

Air Charter Express
9 seat Piper Navajo Chieftains.
6x STL
12x ATL

Cape Air
Tecnam Traveller - same as last bid
18x STL

Air Choice One
Cessna Grand Caravan
6x STL
12x ATL
or
Cessna Grand Caravan/Beechcraft 1900C
6x STL
12x ATL

Southern
C-208
9x BNA
9x MEM
or
C-208
11x ATL
7x STL
or
C-208
18x ATL
or
PC-12 or KA-200
18x ATL
or
PC-12 or KA-200
11x ATL
7x CHI

TransportAzumah
4x a day bus service to MEM

Boutique again , their bid is also considerably higher than the first time they got the contract. Bus service is just stupid.

It’s also interesting that Southern Airways express has a bid that doesn’t require any subsidy. If they win with the no subsidy bid, then it will prove the community doesn’t need subsidy anymore and Jackson would be kicked out of the EAS program. Similar to when great lakes airlines served a bunch of cities in Wyoming without subsidy and forced the communities to leave the program.

Also a bit disappointed DAC didn’t bid, would love to see them expand more.

Jshank83 wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

On the the strength of those bids, I'd say it's Southern's to loose.

Air Choice One got tossed 6 months ago. I doubt they're making a comeback. Their lack of interline partners is a major downside.
Cape Air's offering is disappointing. 18x to STL is not a winner in my book. A mix of destinations seem the way to go if recent awards are anything to go by.
Air Charter Express is unproven. I can't see them being recommended.
As for that proposal from a bus company, I doubt it'll be flying - pun intended

I actually don’t hate the bus idea. Would be better if it was to Nashville though, even though it’s an hour further. Memphis doesn’t offer as good a route map for flights. I also thought it was smart they offered to come in short term. Could get up and running quickly to give an airline time to get set up.

Agree that cape only offering STL is odd. Would be easy to add BNA since they already fly there. Must be a situation where they would take it on their terms but aren’t going that hard for it.

I like you would guess southern is the favorite. BUT after boutique going bad it might be a situation where the devil you know (Air Choice) is better than the one you don’t. Also not sure how much Southern trying to challenge and hold the last decision could play in to it.

I'm not necessarily against the bus idea either, especially in this case considering how close it is to both BNA and MEM, and with good roads. MKL is just a poster child for EAS-haters who'd love nothing more than scrap the whole thing. I just can't see the community recommending that option though. It'd probably be seen as a major downgrade.

re: Cape Air, it nearly sounds like they don't want to win. Or they know something that we don't!

Well southern shouldn't promise aircraft they don't have for service. They don't fly KA200s or PC12s, but that's what they promised for Chadron, NE yet dont use. Stay away from 9X....